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Unbirth Origin - Concept



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bizness86

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Re-Post from the Everything We Know... thread
--------​
Lol, a thought popped in my head while I was watching the latest shitfest that is a Naruto Shippuuden filler. =D

Suppose Unbirths = Premature/Mature Heartless/Nobody

Hypothetically, they're like... say, the raw/crude (as in unrefined) form of a Heartless/Nobody. They were unrefined/wild/pure beings until something happened to them, causing them to either seize to exist, or exist in different forms entirely, hence the Heartless/Nobody(?). Does this make sense?

Bah, I'm having a hard time trying to explain this - it has something to do with chemical bonding, though. =/

If I may, a small concept to support .Oji, because I like supporting .Oji:

I'm simply going to recall concepts spoken from previous games and speculate.

Remember our ranting friend 'Ansem' (Xehanort's Heartless). He'd go around boasting about how "All things begin in darkness, and thus end in darkness," and how "all Hearts are Born in darkness."

To be "born" someone has to "birth" or conceive you. Perhaps unbirths, are the Hearts that weren't yet conceived by the darkness or should have been conceived...You know, they kinda might've been...yanked out (ouch), before conception...

It hold some merit, at least to consideration...Master Xehanort taking premature Hearts out from darkness and making them do his bidding...And the game does seem to revisit the concept of the princesses and Kingdom Hearts. Would unborn hearts been yanked out (ouch...) of the womb satisfied the Heartless/Nobody blueprint condition?

Of course, this is just loose concept and not know-it-all theory...And I'll throw in random quotes and put meaningless jibberish behind them!

Ansem (in reference to Riku) said:
Don't bother. Your voice can no longer reach him where he is. His heart belongs again to Darkness."
Hmm..so his heart belonged to Darkness before...? Maybe unbirthy-type darkness that hearts are born from, and sometimes yanked out (ow!) of......

Ansem said:
Behold the endless abyss! Within lies the heart of all worlds: Kingdom Hearts! Look as hard as you are able; you'll not find even the smallest glimmer of light. From those dark depths are all hearts born... even yours."
More pretense for the origin of Hearts and perhaps Unbirths.

Ansem said:
All worlds begin in darkness, and all so end. The heart is no different. Darkness sprouts within it, grows, consumes it. Such is its nature. In the end, every heart returns to the darkness whence it came. You see, darkness is the heart's true essence.
I can twist this around to get this: Hearts begin in Darkness, they are in darkness before they are born (and essentially, as Unbirths) and then they are born; and Heart, according to XH, will ultimately end up as Heartless. They begin in Darkness and end in Darkness. This would get some insight as to why Heartless were used--they were meant to bring Hearts back to the Darkness...

Ansem said:
Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!
One more quote to emphasize returning to Darkness, as opposed to becoming darkness for the first time...

Bash, agree, or be critical. I enjoyed typing this.
 
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Gabo

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The only issue is, I don't think Ansem SoD can be too credible a source at the same time.
He was obsessed with Darkness.
Everything was darkness to him.
Lawlz

And he ended up being wrong about Kingdom Hearts.

So how credible what the man obsessed with darkness and sees darkness in everything is beyond me.
=\
 
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Nostalgia

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I believe (and I'm sure R-K will correct me if I'm wrong) that Nomura told us to consider the unbirths as a basis for how the heartless began. So, I'd guess it does have something to do with darkness and the heart, but the process by which they are made is probably the key difference.
 
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I believe (and I'm sure R-K will correct me if I'm wrong) that Nomura told us to consider the unbirths as a basis for how the heartless began. So, I'd guess it does have something to do with darkness and the heart, but the process by which they are made is probably the key difference.
Unbirth's are totally different from the heartless. They never existed around the same periods.lawlz


The only issue is, I don't think Ansem can be too credible a source at the same time.
He was obsessed with Darkness.
Everything was darkness to him.
Lawlz

And he ended up being wrong about Kingdom Hearts.

So how credible what the man obsessed with darkness and sees darkness in everything is beyond me.
=\
Exactly. Ansem wanted revenge on all of his apprentices, because he had lost everything.
 

Iridium

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Euphoric Sorrow said:
I believe (and I'm sure R-K will correct me if I'm wrong) that Nomura told us to consider the unbirths as a basis for how the heartless began. So, I'd guess it does have something to do with darkness and the heart, but the process by which they are made is probably the key difference.

I agree with that, darkness is very prevalent so I wouldn't doubt that it's involved albeit in a different way.

Elegant Chant said:
Unbirth's are totally different from the heartless. They never existed around the same periods.lawlz

Did you actually read his post?
 

Gabo

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Exactly. Ansem wanted revenge on all of his apprentices, because he had lost everything.
Not Exactly.
I should fix correct myself.
I meant Ansem SoD
 

bizness86

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The only issue is, I don't think Ansem can be too credible a source at the same time.
He was obsessed with Darkness.
Everything was darkness to him.
Lawlz

And he ended up being wrong about Kingdom Hearts.

So how credible what the man obsessed with darkness and sees darkness in everything is beyond me.
=\
But the Darkness was there, along with a massive drove of Heartless. And XH did do his research; He was a smart Heartless bastard, I'd give him that. XH just didn't account for the light being in Kingdom Hearts as well.

Exactly. Ansem wanted revenge on all of his apprentices, because he had lost everything.

The 'Ansem' we (I, anyway) are referring to was Xehanort's Heartless, not Ansem the Wise.​
 
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Iridium

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Euphoric Sorrow said:
Thanks Ytt, I knew someone would get the gist of it ha ha

No problem, they are the precursors to the heartless so darkness has to be involved :p
I doubt they would be conceived through the power of light.
 

Nostalgia

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Nomura said that unbirths could be thoguht of as the foundation for heartless. I didn't they were heartless. And if they were the foundation, that would imply that their process of being made should include darkness and the heart in some way, but that that process is different from how heartless are made, and therefore, that's why they are different.
 

Iridium

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And hopefully it will conclude why they went extinct.
Also congrads on the 1000th post, just give the system a couple of minutes to recognize you just turned premium.
 

Ordeith

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Re-Post from the Everything We Know... thread
--------​


If I may, a small concept to support .Oji, because I like supporting .Oji:

I'm simply going to recall concepts spoken from previous games and speculate.

Remember our ranting friend 'Ansem' (Xehanort's Heartless). He'd go around boasting about how "All things begin in darkness, and thus end in darkness," and how "all Hearts are Born in darkness."

To be "born" someone has to "birth" or conceive you. Perhaps unbirths, are the Hearts that haven't weren't conceived by the darkness or should have been conceived...You know, they kinda might've been...yanked out (ouch), before conception...

It hold some merit, at least to consideration...Master Xehanort taking premature Hearts out from darkness and making them do his bidding...And the game does seem to revisit the concept of the princesses and Kingdom Hearts. Would unborn hearts been yanked out (ouch...) of the womb satisfied the Heartless/Nobody blueprint condition?

Of course, this is just loose concept and not know-it-all theory...And I'll throw in random quotes and put meaningless jibberish behind them!


Hmm..so his heart belonged to Darkness before...? Maybe unbirthy-type darkness that hearts are born from, and sometimes yanked out (ow!) of......


More pretense for the origin of Hearts and perhaps Unbirths.


I can twist this around to get this: Hearts begin in Darkness, they are in darkness before they are born (and essentially, as Unbirths) and then they are born; and Heart, according to XH, will ultimately end up as Heartless. They begin in Darkness and end in Darkness. This would get some insight as to why Heartless were used--they were meant to bring Hearts back to the Darkness...


One more quote to emphasize returning to Darkness, as opposed to becoming darkness for the first time...

Bash, agree, or be critical. I enjoyed typing this.

Hmm...well, while it's definatly better than some other theories I've read, I don't think this is very likely, since Xehanort's Heartless isn't a very good source for information regarding the heart, since all he does is ramble about darkness.
 

Iridium

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I did notice that, I wonder what information AtW held about the heart before his sacrifice.
 

Cissy

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Go ES! =D

*cough* Yeah, either way Unbirths definitely have to do with the heart, because of their emblem. *points to it*
 

Iridium

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Go ES! =D

*cough* Yeah, either way Unbirths definitely have to do with the heart, because of their emblem. *points to it*

Well yeah of course it does but not just because of the emblem, hearts are the source of everything.
*starting to sound like Xemnas >.>*
 
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