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Ultimania Shibuya confusion



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Chie

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First of all I apologize if there's already been arguments about this. But in other KH communities I've always noticed a bizarre difference in understanding between me and others regarding what Nomura has to say about Shibuya in the Ultimania interview. To recap:

—Is Sora in the world of the World Ends With You?

Nomura: It does look like it. But there's more meaning in the fact that it is not Shibuya (written with kanji), but Shibuya (written with katakana). Also, Sora promised Neku and the others in KH3D that he would meet them in Shibuya (written in katakana), but that doesn't mean it's directly connected to this movie.
I have had numerous people assert to me that this is Nomura saying that KH3-Shibuya is not TWEWY/3D-Shibuya, and this is commonly treated as canon fact. But that's not what this quote says in the slightest. In fact, it spells KH3-Shibuya and 3D-Shibuya in the same way. What's up with people coming to the exact opposite conclusion? Feels like people just read "It does look like it. But" and stopped there.

Even right now on the KHWiki, the statement "Neku's Shibuya and Yozora's are two entirely separate worlds." is presented as fact with this quote being the citation. Kinda bothers me that this misinformation is accepted as the truth. I know it's an ambiguous non-answer so people take it different ways, but that's kind of the point: it's an ambiguous non-answer, so obviously you can't make a conclusion as firm as the wiki's from that.
 

KeybladeLordSora

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That quote is both vague and direct at the same time.

Like, he says it in a vague way while basically confirming that KH3's Shibuya is the same as TWEWY's, especially since there are MULTIPLE Shibuyas in TWEWY, and he even brings up Sora's promise to Neku just to say that it's not directly connected to the secret ending. Directly being the key word here.

It really does make me wonder why people think he said "No they're completely different" when the entire quote is basically just him saying "Yes but I'm not gonna tell you directly".

All that, plus Sora waking up the same way as Neku and using 104 instead of another number entirely is the same as putting a big sign that says "THIS IS TWEWY SHIBUYA" in the middle of the street.
 
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Antifa Lockhart

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That quote is both vague and direct at the same time.

Like, he says it in a vague way while basically confirming that KH3's Shibuya is the same as TWEWY's, especially since there are MULTIPLE Shibuyas in TWEWY, and he even brings up Sora's promise to Neku just to say that it's not directly connected to the secret ending. Directly being the key word here.

It really does make me wonder why people think he said "No they're completely different" when the entire quote is basically just him saying "Yes but I'm not gonna tell you directly"
That's not what he's saying.

Nomura's quote in the Ultimania is more-so pointing out that the Shibuya that Sora has landed in is a fictitious parallel one rather than the real world. He wouldn't go to the distinction in saying "there's more meaning in the spelling than the fact that it looks like TWEWY." He also wouldn't have said that the secret ending may not be the realization of Sora and Neku's promise.

Personally, I feel like if they were the same they'd be stylized the same way instead of the more realistic way we see CGI Sora and in-game Sora when battling Yozora.
 

Clue.Less

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a fictitious parallel one rather than the real world
By "fictitious", you mean something like a dream / data-projection / different worldline? A dream-or-data-UG-Shibuya, directly or indirectly created by the MoM, would make a lot of sense to me. Joshua in "the real world" would help Riku and Kairi figure out a way through. Using Riku's Reaper Keyblade Lvl1 to clear the way.

Braveheart_KHIII.png TWEWYLv1KeyPin.jpg

I'm not sure what "real world" even means anymore in this game, but Neku being in a different Shibuya than Sora would make things more suspenseful and dramatic than just Sora popping up in Neku's world. More running around in parallel circles looking for each other, never meeting for good until the very end.

((Also, when Joshua says at the beginning of DDD that "their world was destroyed", could he have literally meant Shibuya was destroyed or was it just a way to say they "died" and the 3D-Traverse Town is just a UG place Joshua's dreamt up? Do we even know how Neku himself gets back to Shibuya? And which Shibuya? The UG or the RG? 😅.))

Follow-up question to the OP: What does the Shibuya written in kanji refer to exactly? Is there a kanji/katakana difference in the original TWEWY game?

Can somebody make a "what we know about KH-TWEWY so far" post/thread?
 

Chie

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Follow-up question to the OP: What does the Shibuya written in kanji refer to exactly? Is there a kanji/katakana difference in the original TWEWY game?

Can somebody make a "what we know about KH-TWEWY so far" post/thread?
I read someone say that in TWEWY the RG is written in kanji and the UG is written in katakana, but I haven't confirmed that for myself. The JP wikipedia page for TWEWY seems to use katakana in general. And obviously in real life Shibuya is written in kanji.

Incidentally, in regards to other connections, the final boss of the TWEWY bonus scenario in the switch version is a tapir (aka a dream eater)...
 

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Japanese people use Kanji when referring to Shibuya in our world, but the TWEWY Shibuya uses Katakana spelling as seen on the official TWEWY wiki. Nomura saying the difference is spelling is him saying that its not our real world Shibuya (which is spelled in Kanji.) So its a fiction version of Shibuya (written in Katakana.) So Nomura is saying that Sora/Riku are NOT in our world.
 

Clue.Less

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Japanese people use Kanji when referring to Shibuya in our world, but the TWEWY Shibuya uses Katakana spelling as seen on the official TWEWY wiki. Nomura saying the difference is spelling is him saying that its not our real world Shibuya (which is spelled in Kanji.) So its a fiction version of Shibuya (written in Katakana.) So Nomura is saying that Sora/Riku are NOT in our world.
Well that's underwhelming 😂
 

legacier

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That's not what he's saying.

Nomura's quote in the Ultimania is more-so pointing out that the Shibuya that Sora has landed in is a fictitious parallel one rather than the real world. He wouldn't go to the distinction in saying "there's more meaning in the spelling than the fact that it looks like TWEWY." He also wouldn't have said that the secret ending may not be the realization of Sora and Neku's promise.

Personally, I feel like if they were the same they'd be stylized the same way instead of the more realistic way we see CGI Sora and in-game Sora when battling Yozora.
Good, I'm not the only one who picked up on that. The Shibuya in KH3 is by far the most realistic world in KH and the Shibuya of TWEWY (and its equivalent in 3D) is... not that. It's just common sense to say they're obviously not the same world. You don't even need Nomura's comment to figure that out. And y'know, "this isn't directly connected to that."

In other words, there is some connection to TWEWY (not that that's news to anyone) but it's not exactly the same world. Honestly? Over a year and a half later people are still agonizing over this comment when it didn't say anything you can't see with your own eyes.
 

Chie

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I wouldn't be bothered by it if a "there is no connection to TWEWY at all" interpretation wasn't taken as canon fact to such a degree that it made me feel like I was insane.

(Though perhaps using ANY Nomura quote as a wiki citation is a bit out of line considering that he's provided multiple explanations for various things throughout the years. I believe "Xemnas is searching for Ventus because he has Terra's memories of Ventus being his friend" and "Xemnas is searching for Ventus because he's an ancient keyblade wielder" are both things he's said in interviews - both can be true, but on their face they are very different.)
 

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The Shibuya we see in KH3/Re:Mind is TWEWY's Shibuya, or specifically, the KH version of that Shibuya. We know this from the 104 building using the exact logo and the fact is uses 104 in the first place. We also know this because Yozora referenced the Reapers' Game.

That quote is both vague and direct at the same time.

Like, he says it in a vague way while basically confirming that KH3's Shibuya is the same as TWEWY's, especially since there are MULTIPLE Shibuyas in TWEWY, and he even brings up Sora's promise to Neku just to say that it's not directly connected to the secret ending. Directly being the key word here.

It really does make me wonder why people think he said "No they're completely different" when the entire quote is basically just him saying "Yes but I'm not gonna tell you directly".

All that, plus Sora waking up the same way as Neku and using 104 instead of another number entirely is the same as putting a big sign that says "THIS IS TWEWY SHIBUYA" in the middle of the street.
Exactly. People are looking far too in Nomura's answer when the fact of the matter is he confirmed it's TWEWY's Shibuya, and added that there's a very good reason for why it's that Shibuya. The second half of his statement meaning that Sora's promise to Neku isn't why Sora is in Shibuya in the secret movie.

I want to add that since Re:Mind happened, Nomura could have just been referring to Yozora using it as a battlefield this whole time. It's actually unknown if Sora will be in Shibuya.
 
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KudoTsurugi

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I can agree with the notion of this Shibuya being a different version of TWEWY's Shibuya that's specific to KH. Much like how the Final Fantasy characters that cameo in KH differ from their own game counterparts, the best example being how the Wingulls are like small fairies/sprites rather than human.

TWEWY itself brought up the idea of parallel universes/worlds with the Secret Day X scenarios, so it's possible the TWEWY group Sora meets is from one of these.
 

zander1995

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From what I can tell, it sounds more like Nomura is saying that while Sora's in SHIBUYA, he's not in real world Shibuya, and while he may be in SHIBUYA that doesn't necessarily mean there will be a direct connection to TWEWY.

I think a big issue people are having here is that we're all trying to interpret a translation instead of the original Japanese. A small change in wording or assumption of a topic can completely change the meaning of something from Japanese to English because of how contextual Japanese is, but keeping a translation too literal to the words used in Japanese can also cause meaning to change. It's an art, not a science, and any number of things could go wrong, especially in amateur translations.

We should take all unofficial translations with a grain of salt, and even some official KH translations because Nomura's Nomura and he likes to give new meanings to things he had already established.
 

Sign

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We should take all unofficial translations with a grain of salt, and even some official KH translations because Nomura's Nomura and he likes to give new meanings to things he had already established.
Of course, but goldpanner has been translating his interviews for well over a decade so if people are going to base theories off of anyone's work, hers is the best you've got.

And let's not forget that the latest official translation decided to editorialize and put words in Nomura's mouth, so I hardly think it's fair to pin the blame on him for everything.
 

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Of course, but goldpanner has been translating his interviews for well over a decade so if people are going to base theories off of anyone's work, hers is the best you've got.

And let's not forget that the latest official translation decided to editorialize and put words in Nomura's mouth, so I hardly think it's fair to pin the blame on him for everything.
Oh, I'm not saying we can't trust their translations, just that something could easily be lost in translation, or even just based on the wording of the translation.

And when did that happen?
 

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Oh, I'm not saying we can't trust their translations, just that something could easily be lost in translation, or even just based on the wording of the translation.

And when did that happen?
Nomura's message to the fans when Dark Road launched. In it, he mentions that the number of staff responsible for cutscene animations just recently became 2. He explains that the workload for both UX and DR required more hands on deck, and then follows by asking people to submit their applications for hire.

However, the official translation posted by SE had Nomura saying that they had recently reduced their animation staff and left only 2 members... and then he says they're hiring. The ethical and contradictory issues with that messaging aside, not only was there no mention of any staff reduction in the original text, but previous credits for the X series have already proven this claim false, as only one animator had ever been listed. A second name was only added for DR.
 
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zander1995

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I wouldn't really say that's contradictory or false. They're privy to more information about the situation than we are, and while one person may have been credited as animator that doesn't mean there weren't more people on the team working on animations, they probably just had different job descriptions that they're credited under.

And hell, it's possible the English version was just more open about the situation than the JP version. That's pretty common in bilingual announcements.
 

Sign

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I wouldn't really say that's contradictory or false. They're privy to more information about the situation than we are, and while one person may have been credited as animator that doesn't mean there weren't more people on the team working on animations, they probably just had different job descriptions that they're credited under.

And hell, it's possible the English version was just more open about the situation than the JP version. That's pretty common in bilingual announcements.
Yeah, no. SE as a company would never allow their overseas branches to share information about the going-ons of their Japanese offices unless they have already made the information public for the Japanese audience.

I'll add that the scenario they're came up with is really not a good one. Activision got properly reamed for doing the same thing albeit to a much larger scale (massive layoffs and then enthusiastically announcing that they're hiring to fill the same positions). I seriously doubt they'd be so tone deaf as to do the same and think it's toootally cool.
 
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I wouldn't really say that's contradictory or false. They're privy to more information about the situation than we are, and while one person may have been credited as animator that doesn't mean there weren't more people on the team working on animations, they probably just had different job descriptions that they're credited under.

And hell, it's possible the English version was just more open about the situation than the JP version. That's pretty common in bilingual announcements.
Maybe if we didn't already know there was only one animator, sure. The team for UX is already very small between both SE and Bitgroove. It's been the same animator since the original X[chi] days. If there had been more for UX, they definitely would have updated the credits to make note of them. They've had plenty of opportunities to do so like when they renamed Unchained X to Union X or when they added in Tres X. But they did it with the new animator who came in with DR.
 
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