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THEORY - The Identity of YMX is...



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considering there was no real connection between Saix and MF at the time, why would he have reason to lie

I'm not saying he did, just as a precaution because, you know, can't believe everything you read on the internet.

Anywho, even better than working to re-upload all the pictures, I found the source. It was deleted but still visible via cache:
Talk:Unknown (Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep) - Kingdom Hearts Wiki, the Kingdom Hearts encyclopedia

Scroll a little over halfway down, the interesting stuff starts there.
Also bear in mind that a lot of guesswork goes into the model height comparisons, but nonetheless, pretty interesting.
 

Mr Yippie

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n_zz010_02out.png


wow, that earring

jesus my mind is blown
 

Oracle Spockanort

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Grass was just giving some interesting facts about models and textures. In no way was he actually supporting this theory, Yippie.
 

Marx15

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I'm not saying he did, just as a precaution because, you know, can't believe everything you read on the internet.

Anywho, even better than working to re-upload all the pictures, I found the source. It was deleted but still visible via cache:
Talk:Unknown (Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep) - Kingdom Hearts Wiki, the Kingdom Hearts encyclopedia

Scroll a little over halfway down, the interesting stuff starts there.
Also bear in mind that a lot of guesswork goes into the model height comparisons, but nonetheless, pretty interesting.

Some things I found interesting when looking at the models, was that MF has smaller feet than Saix, and that Saix's ears look like bat ears to me. Just a little thing I found interesting.

Also, MF's pecks are larger and Saix's are smaller and more located towards his neck, while MF's are more so in the middle of the body.


I also found interesting that someone posted a video a little ways past the comparison between MF and Saix, in which someone tried to prove that MF had a voice.

They said MF had actually spoke during BBS and he said, "Ready?" right before the fight, and "Take this." during the fight.
 
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I am wondering why Isa didn't appear, but I'm not sure he's Xehanort... That's simply how he looked before he got older, right? I'm not sure, they're probably connected in some way, but I personally don't think they're the same person.
 

Absolute

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It's funny that this topic was made, because I was just recently fiddling around with the idea that YMX is Isa in some form.
I took pictures of their models and overlaid their eyes/faces on top of each other to see how similar they were, in the exact same manner that I did when I put Vanitas' eye/bangs over Sora's face to show that he probably looked like KH2 Sora.

Unfortunately, I didn't save the picture because I was disappointed by the result. From a cursory glance, YMX definitely looks like Isa, but when you compare their faces, they aren't the same. Isa has more rounded eyes and thicker eyelashes while YMX's are more thin. Additionally, their chins to line up exactly and Isa has a thicker lower lip. But I can see why someone would think they look similar (I did, and that's why I compared them), because they both have that sort of half-lidded stare and YMX's manner of talk is a lot like Saix's.

So I would be quick to call this an open and shut case, that YMX is not Isa/Saix.
But.

There's one thing I think people forgot about, and I mentioned it months ago.
Not sure how reliable this was, but according to a hacker, when they were extracting the texture kit for MF's model from BbS, they found it to be the exact same as Saix's kit from KH2. The thing about Saix's texture kit is that, while many of the Organization members have the same textures just at different proportions, Saix's kit is one of the few that is unique because one of the things it has is his earrings. And that's what they found on MF's texture kit. Apparently, they used Saix as a reference.

I still have pictures of the kit on my laptop, actually, might upload them later.

That little tidbit, assuming it is accurate, will probably throw this topic into chaos, but I thought it best to inform you guys!

It could be a coincidence, but what an amazing coincidence. Looking at YMX, i defintely do see a resemblance to Isa. Added to the fact that Saix had a big X-shape scar on his face and how X is important, that Saix was essentially the second in command of the Organization and how he has gold eyes which shows a connection to MX, and that he's the only original 8 (outside of Apprentice Xehanort) to not be shown so far, it does make one think that there could be something to that theory.

Of course, introducing Lea and isa's friendship in Days and BBS and having YMX as Isa would give Lea Story plotline relevancy in this game. there has to be a reason why Lea is all over the place in 3D.
 

JustSnilloc

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I'm thinking that there's just TOO much coincidence going on here for it not to have some meaning...

1st The General Age/Appearance
2nd The Saix-Xehanort Connection
3rd BbS's MF having Saix's model, and Nomura saying that they are the same person (MF & YMX)
4th Nomura intentionally avoiding saying "who" MF is
5th Lea wondering where Isa is
6th Them showing up together in the image (1st post)
7th The fact that Xehanort has taken over a body before
8th It would make what YMX said to Sora about "Hearts other than your own" make more since

Point being, there's a lot of "coincidence" that happens to support the fact that MF could be Isa with MX controlling him
 

rac7d

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It could be a coincidence, but what an amazing coincidence. Looking at YMX, i defintely do see a resemblance to Isa. Added to the fact that Saix had a big X-shape scar on his face and how X is important, that Saix was essentially the second in command of the Organization and how he has gold eyes which shows a connection to MX, and that he's the only original 8 (outside of Apprentice Xehanort) to not be shown so far, it does make one think that there could be something to that theory.

Of course, introducing Lea and isa's friendship in Days and BBS and having YMX as Isa would give Lea Story plotline relevancy in this game. there has to be a reason why Lea is all over the place in 3D.

I like that reasoning, I was sure if axel had completly forsaken his freindship with Isa yet, could the reason why is and briag not return be becasue of them working in the realm of sleep, braig existing as his nobody and Isa a vessel.....
 

blueheart

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The MF model looks like a mix of Saix and Xemnas. Maybe what YMX is? A physical mix of both with Xehanort controlling it?
 

Crazy Mario

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I'm thinking that there's just TOO much coincidence going on here for it not to have some meaning...

1st The General Age/Appearance
2nd The Saix-Xehanort Connection
3rd BbS's MF having Saix's model, and Nomura saying that they are the same person (MF & YMX)
4th Nomura intentionally avoiding saying "who" MF is
5th Lea wondering where Isa is
6th Them showing up together in the image (1st post)
7th The fact that Xehanort has taken over a body before
8th It would make what YMX said to Sora about "Hearts other than your own" make more since

Point being, there's a lot of "coincidence" that happens to support the fact that MF could be Isa with MX controlling him
You know, I'm starting to get around the idea. It's actually starting to sound cool now! It still doesn't explain the whole time manipulation motif and how he could appear in BbS in this form.
 

JustSnilloc

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Here's another theory...

(Master) Xehanort has always had control over Nothingness (as evidenced by Xemnas, and the MF), and by extension control over time (since nothingness is eternal? idk but he has it, and it must be from him or Isa,) but anyway, the control over time has always been lesser... Isa/Saix on the other hand doesn't have any particular powers outside the Moon granting him crazy amounts of power, got it?

Okay, so when Xehanort took over Isa, he obtained the ability to draw power from the moon and guess what is like a giant moon? KINGDOM HEARTS... With that much extra power, Isanort (just going to call him that for simplicity's sake) could have easily traveled back in time, but maybe he can only do it when Kingdom Hearts is around... Later some time after BbS, he traveled to the Sleeping Worlds and like Sora/Riku was reverted to an earlier age

Thoughts?
 

billyzanesucks

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Hmm. . . The best reason for his abilities that I can think of is that he's a being of or has power over the Realm of Sleep. Though, that doesn't help a whole lot.
 

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Maybe this is why Lea wants to join Riku/Sora in the RoS so bad, he seems really inpatient when talking to Yen Sid. Maybe he wants to save his old friend Isa?
 

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I completely agree with Isa being posessed(willingly) by Xehanort. And I think I know why he would look younger, too. When Isa became a nobody, maybe instead of turning into a Heartless, his heart just went to sleep, right? This also explains why he's in the RoS to begin with. AND it would explain why Lea can find everyone but Isa, he never re-formed because his heart was absent, in the RoS. AND I have a theory now that maybe the "seeds" Xehanort planted was doing something to ensure that his possible vessels' hearts would go to the RoS instead of re-joining with their bodies, which would explain why Braig is there, too. However, Braig looks Xigbar's age in the trailer, which I guess means his body and heart are both in the RoS. And if I'm right about Xehanort sending their hearts to the RoS, it's no wonder that Vanitas wasn't destroyed, because he probably did that to him too as a fail-safe. And probably to Ven, too, which is why we see his armor with the Nightmare symbol on it. That's all I got so far
 

flurryflames

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Alot of people thought that Terra wasn't connected to Xeohanort and had the upbringing of the darkness, but they were wrong about this. I don't think it was a coincidence that Unknown resembles Isa or Saix.

Lots of interesting theories about this. I am not dismissing this fact either of the connection to Unknown not being Isa either. It is interesting that Noruma keeps the name Unknown and not young master Xeohanort for that matter.

There are plenty of resources that support it. The skin model, errings, heck even the weapon in some form seems similar to Saix's. Maybe he found the X blade.

The real one I come to grasp is the X on Saixs face. It reminds me of the X blade. This is my theory, Saix wanted his heart back and finds that he can't have it for whatever reason. He sees some figure either or maybe guardian, Ansem darkness, Xigbar, MX, that tells him he can his heart if he follows their orders. Saix was always power hungry and a good candidate for evil. Either this form is a shape shifter or an illusion I wouldn't be surprised if it was just an disguise, but I believe he is connected to Isa in some way or maybe all three Xeohanorts including Xenmas. (As for the cloning thing a few members I have seen have that power, being Zexion, Larxene, Marluxia, Xenmas, but I am not sure if all nobodies have that ability or not.)

With no hope of ever getting what he wants he sum combs for more power, becomes a younger version of Xehanort and stays in this form to fool people, but still retains the memories of Xehanort and the others like him. So in a way used like a puppet on his own will.

Lea may want to save his friend and might have an idea of where he went. This ties in as well. But the thing seems complicated. these are theories after all.
 

JustSnilloc

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Alot of people thought that Terra wasn't connected to Xeohanort and had the upbringing of the darkness, but they were wrong about this. I don't think it was a coincidence that Unknown resembles Isa or Saix.

Lots of interesting theories about this. I am not dismissing this fact either of the connection to Unknown not being Isa either. It is interesting that Noruma keeps the name Unknown and not young master Xeohanort for that matter.

There are plenty of resources that support it. The skin model, errings, heck even the weapon in some form seems similar to Saix's. Maybe he found the X blade.

The real one I come to grasp is the X on Saixs face. It reminds me of the X blade. This is my theory, Saix wanted his heart back and finds that he can't have it for whatever reason. He sees some figure either or maybe guardian, Ansem darkness, Xigbar, MX, that tells him he can his heart if he follows their orders. Saix was always power hungry and a good candidate for evil. Either this form is a shape shifter or an illusion I wouldn't be surprised if it was just an disguise, but I believe he is connected to Isa in some way or maybe all three Xeohanorts including Xenmas. (As for the cloning thing a few members I have seen have that power, being Zexion, Larxene, Marluxia, Xenmas, but I am not sure if all nobodies have that ability or not.)

With no hope of ever getting what he wants he sum combs for more power, becomes a younger version of Xehanort and stays in this form to fool people, but still retains the memories of Xehanort and the others like him. So in a way used like a puppet on his own will.

Lea may want to save his friend and might have an idea of where he went. This ties in as well. But the thing seems complicated. these are theories after all.

yup, it's a pretty valid possibility... As opposed to everyone else who would be disappointed if Isa were the MF, I would be disappointed if he were not (it'd make Isa less important), personal opinion I suppose
 

Sephiroth0812

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It's obvious that Isa has some deep ties with Xehanort, as can be seen with the golden eyes + pointy ears.

While I won't bet on it, I also won't rule out that the MF can be related to Isa.
In any case Isa seems to be one of Xehanort's seeds, as Nomura once spoke about the seeds and the "deep connection" to Xehanort together.
He used Braig as an example, but the symptoms hold true also for Isa and Vanitas.

While I doubt that Isa "found" the X-blade (btw, you cannot "find" it, it got destroyed by Ventus and Aqua.), it is entirely possible that Saix did work willingly with Xemnas and Xehanort.
KH2 clearly comes over as this since Saix was very closely working with Xemnas, even hunting down Axel etc.
The turning point, I assume, would have been when Saix realized that his plan with Axel was only a "idle fantasy now" and that Axel placed his friendship and loyalty to Roxas (and possibly Xion as well) over their plan, risking their success in order to keep the "kiddies" safe.
After that realization, Saix turned his back on Axel and became a willing accomplice of Xemnas...and probably by extension Xehanort.
What his own, personal goals are remains a mystery, yet I would not think that Isa plans to be Xehanort's puppet forever.
 

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Seeing as Lea is supposed to play a key role here and that he will probably end up in the Realm of Sleep, this could very well be legit. What a confrontation between this YMX/Isa hybrid character and Lea...
 
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