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Theory on How Xehanort Became A Heartless



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chasespicer056

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Here's the general assumption I get: Xehanort the Apprentice had a heart made up of Terra's, MX's and Eraqus's, and that heart became Ansem SOD. I'm going to argue against half of that belief.

THE TRUE NATURE OF ANSEM SOD
images


I'll start by discussing the "Hidden Truths" segment of blank points in BBS's secret ending. In this ending, Terra and MX say a number of things, including:

*Xehanort says he has other options besides Terra
*Terra says that he'll show MX the door (kick him out basically)
*Xehanort realizes Eraqus is in Terra's heart now

And of course we all remember what led up to this. Terra finally regained control of his body, but accidentally sealed his heart with MX's instead of releasing MX's, which resulted in an amnesiac man called Xehanort.

Braig_Xehanort.png


Now this Xehanort, Apprentice Xehanort if you will, began experimenting with darkness and created the Heartless. However, in both the Ansem Reports and Secret Ansem Reports, Xehanort finds a sealed door in the castle, and it is heavily hinted that Xehanort used the Keyblade to open it.

So he could use the Keyblade still. But there's one function of the Keyblade that Apprentice Xehanort may not have realized. It could turn one's heart into a Heartless and split hearts appart. We saw this happen to Sora in KH1. He used it to release Kairi's heart and ended up turning his own heart into a Heartless.

After months of fighting, Terra makes good on his promise to get rid of MX...in an interesting way. Xehanort the Apprentice, the new identity, loses control of his body, like in the final battle with Aqua. Terra is taking control of it yet again.

The reason why MX stabbing Terra's body the first time failed is because the hearts were separate still and he didn't foresee the consequences. So he wasn't able to release it then. But now their heart is ONE. So, Terra took control and stabbed his chest, which released two hearts:

*Xehanort's heart
*Terra and Eraqus's combined heart (since Eraqus didn't have a represented image of himself in "hidden truths", it can be inferred that his heart is now truly a part of Terra's)

Xehanort, still believing darkness was supreme, allowed himself to turn into a Heartless. Terra's heart found refuge in Riku since he didn't want to fall to darkness again. This is supported by the fact that Ansem SOD doesn't show a SINGLE trait of either Terra or Eraqus. Xemnas has Terra's desire to find Ven and refers to Aqua as his friend, and also has knowledge about the Room of Awakening's location which Eraqus had given Aqua.

Yet Ansem SOD...only shows traits of MX. He even says the same speech at the end of KH1 about darkness that MX says when controlling Terra's body. He wears the same clothes as MX even.

So what became of Xehanort's heart? Well, he donned a brown robe and continued to create Heartless. But he never said he actually had a humanoid form...not yet.

Recall that Ansem SOD was never shown UNTIL he had taken over Riku's body. This is why Ansem SOD doesn't look exactly the same as MX. Because it's his heart taking control of Riku's body. And there are two reasons he wanted Riku under his control:

*Riku had Terra's heart, and therefore his power, within him
*Riku was one of the other seeds Xehanort spoke of. Young MX and Riku have the same voice, which means at some point, MX influenced the boy so he could one day become a seed. Also, when Terra meets Riku, he sees Riku as young MX for a moment, but then Riku turns into his older teenage self.

That's why Riku was chosen as Ansem SOD's vessel. Not because a sliver of Terra in Ansem SOD wanted him. It's because MX had been connected to him all along.

Thank you for your time. I'll welcome any criticism and discussion.

NOTE: This theory is null and void because in the secret Ansem reports, Ansem confirms that Xehanort did NOT use a Keyblade to become a Heartless:

Worlds are no exception. If a world is a being, the heart it holds must be colossal... ...and the darkness at its core must be monstrous indeed. Did Xehanort pass through that door in an attempt to contact that dark realm? No, not only Xehanort. It appears my other five apprentices, believing it was for the sake of research, stared deep into the darkness and were pulled into it. Even, Ienzo, Braig, Dilan, and Aeleus... They have ceased to be human.
 
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theheroofdarknes

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pretty good theory here at all, friend - but for a strange reason, it doesn't seem to fit in for 100% . Think about this:

A Keyblade MASTER, has many additional abilities, a normal apprentice has not: Unlock Hearts - no matter if own or others - Keyblade Inheritance Ceremony and so on...

Terra, although he failed in the MoM-Exam (thanks to Xehanort), already is about the same level as a Master, that's why he was able to chose Riku as his successor.

So far, I think more (as also hinted somehow in the Secret Ansem Reports) is that Xehanort as his other five companions just went dappled too deep in their research - and that then, one of their experiments went out of control what may have caused them to turn into Heartless + Nobodies in the first place. The only thing, I could imagine in extension is that either Xehanort wanted this experiment to go astray to become Heartless and Nobody so that he'd turn into his "ultimate being thing" or that Terra managed it to get control back over his body for this short moment to destroy this experiment what then accidentally caused all of this to happen.

No, that what happened there at the point where Xehanort stabbed himself is something we can not explain for 100% . What makes me wonder now who of the two persona now really had control over Terranort's body in that moment as young Xehanort stabbed himself with his Keyblade for the 2nd time...
 

chasespicer056

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pretty good theory here at all, friend - but for a strange reason, it doesn't seem to fit in for 100% . Think about this:

A Keyblade MASTER, has many additional abilities, a normal apprentice has not: Unlock Hearts - no matter if own or others - Keyblade Inheritance Ceremony and so on...

Terra, although he failed in the MoM-Exam (thanks to Xehanort), already is about the same level as a Master, that's why he was able to chose Riku as his successor.

So far, I think more (as also hinted somehow in the Secret Ansem Reports) is that Xehanort as his other five companions just went dappled too deep in their research - and that then, one of their experiments went out of control what may have caused them to turn into Heartless + Nobodies in the first place. The only thing, I could imagine in extension is that either Xehanort wanted this experiment to go astray to become Heartless and Nobody so that he'd turn into his "ultimate being thing" or that Terra managed it to get control back over his body for this short moment to destroy this experiment what then accidentally caused all of this to happen.

No, that what happened there at the point where Xehanort stabbed himself is something we can not explain for 100% . What makes me wonder now who of the two persona now really had control over Terranort's body in that moment as young Xehanort stabbed himself with his Keyblade for the 2nd time...

That's another interesting perspective. The only reason I said Eraqus stabbed the body is because when Terra did that in BBS, he accidentally locked their hearts, which tells me that he lacks the ability to release one's heart. He even said "GET OUT OF MY HEART" but messed up.

Personally I think that Terra wanted to stab his body the second time. Xehanort WANTED the darkness within Terra's heart and it's power. He wanted that body. Even if Terra was giving him trouble, I don't think Xehanort would just call it quits and retreat.

So even though this whole process is very open ended, I think that it was Terra's desire to stab himself the second time, yet he needed Eraqus to do it.
 

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You lost me at several places:

1. When Terranort stabbed himself in the Last Episode, the game says MX did this to rid himself of Terra...not the other way around.
2. How would Terra get into Riku's heart if there was no way for Terra to step foot into his heart? Just his heart being released from his body made him float into Riku? Terra wouldn't be able to be in Riku UNLESS part of Terra was apart of Ansem SoD. But you are saying he is not. In an interview with Nomura it says that after Xehanort's Heartless was inside Riku, was a part of Terra left over? meaning that Terra would have been apart of the Ansem SoD mess in order to be left over...
3. Are you saying Riku's body effected Ansem SoD's appearance when he took it over in KH1 because Terra was already in there???
 

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So, when Xehanort became a Heartless, the heatless was basically just a thing in a brown robe, until he possessed Riku and was able to gain a body? Wasn't he still destroying worlds or something during the ten year gap? While Xemnas was recruiting members to get KH (then ten years later he finally gets somebody to actually use a keyblade and do it, (lol wtf)

My question is: Why didn't XH have a body? He had a heart though, right?
 

chasespicer056

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You lost me at several places:

1. When Terranort stabbed himself in the Last Episode, the game says MX did this to rid himself of Terra...not the other way around.
2. How would Terra get into Riku's heart if there was no way for Terra to step foot into his heart? Just his heart being released from his body made him float into Riku? Terra wouldn't be able to be in Riku UNLESS part of Terra was apart of Ansem SoD. But you are saying he is not. In an interview with Nomura it says that after Xehanort's Heartless was inside Riku was a part of Terra was left over? meaning that Terra would have been apart of the Ansem SoD mess in order to be left over...
3. Are you saying Riku's body effected Ansem SoD's appearance when he took it over in KH1 because Terra was already in there???

1. Where does the game say that? Although that's also a possibility. Still, all that would change is that Terra, not Eraqus, may have been able to stab himself and release the heart the second time.

2.Terra would connect with RIku in a similar way to how Sora connected with Ven. Sora just found Ven's heart. They didn't have a connection prior to that. But Riku and Terra ALREADY have a connection, which makes it even more likely. Nomura didn't say WHY he wouldn't address that. He just said he wouldn't talk about that yet. But again, another possibility.

3. His true appearance is something that is also open ended. I'm saying that when Ansem SOD possessed Riku, that appearance was an appearance combination of Ansem SOD + Riku, just like how when MX possessed Terra, the body was influenced by MX and thus had changes like the eyes turning yellow, hair turning white, and skin turning darker.

Here's why I CANNOT accept that Terra and Eraqus are in Ansem SOD. Ansem SOD does not have a SINGLE trait of theirs. He only has shown traits of MX. If you give me just one example, just one, of him saying something that Terra or Eraqus would or doing something they would, then please do. Because I honestly can't think of any.

So, when Xehanort became a Heartless, the heatless was basically just a thing in a brown robe, until he possessed Riku and was able to gain a body? Wasn't he still destroying worlds or something during the ten year gap? While Xemnas was recruiting members to get KH (then ten years later he finally gets somebody to actually use a keyblade and do it, (lol wtf)

My question is: Why didn't XH have a body? He had a heart though, right?

I don't think Xehanort's Heartless was actually an acting force. All XH says in his report is that upon becoming a Heartless, he stayed the same, but lost his body. To me that implies that he LITERALLY lost his body and was just a floating heart or sphere of energy inside of a brown robe. Notice that he never moves like a human inside that robe, and when shown next to Riku on DI, only stands at about Riku's height in a hunched over manner.

Once RG fell, the Heartless themselves went on to consume worlds, not under any orders from Ansem.
 

Nayru's Love

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And of course we all remember what led up to this. Terra finally regained control of his body, but accidentally sealed his heart with MX's instead of releasing MX's, which resulted in an amnesiac man called Xehanort.
IIRC, MX did the stabbing, not Terra.

Now this Xehanort, Apprentice Xehanort if you will, began experimenting with darkness and created the Heartless. However, in both the Ansem Reports and Secret Ansem Reports, Xehanort finds a sealed door in the castle, and it is heavily hinted that Xehanort used the Keyblade to open it.
Keyblade, or, him just having the ability to open doors. Like, how Sora didn't need a keyblade to open the DtL, while Ven used one himself. Furthermore, Xehanort talked about the keyblade in his reports as if he didn't have one, implying that he didn't.

So he could use the Keyblade still. But there's one function of the Keyblade that Apprentice Xehanort may not have realized. It could turn one's heart into a Heartless and split hearts appart. We saw this happen to Sora in KH1. He used it to release Kairi's heart and ended up turning his own heart into a Heartless.
That was the Keyblade of Peoples' Heart, which has the exclusive ability to open one's heart up to darkness.

This is supported by the fact that Ansem SOD doesn't show a SINGLE trait of either Terra or Eraqus.
Well, that's because XH is Xehanort's heartless, not Terra's heartless. Also, If XH was solely MX's heart, wouldn't he look like the spitting image of him?

Recall that Ansem SOD was never shown UNTIL he had taken over Riku's body. This is why Ansem SOD doesn't look exactly the same as MX.
Bodies don't influence the appearance of a complete being, nor do dormant hearts in some cases (Riku's heart left his body anyways).
For instance, Sora+Roxas=Sora's appearance

So XH had the young appearance from the start.
Young MX and Riku have the same voice, which means at some point, MX influenced the boy so he could one day become a seed. Also, when Terra meets Riku, he sees Riku as young MX for a moment, but then Riku turns into his older teenage self.
A bit of a stretch, IMO...That, and if seeds could give apparitions, Braig could've given them at some point in the story.
 

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That's another interesting perspective. The only reason I said Eraqus stabbed the body is because when Terra did that in BBS, he accidentally locked their hearts, which tells me that he lacks the ability to release one's heart. He even said "GET OUT OF MY HEART" but messed up.

Personally I think that Terra wanted to stab his body the second time. Xehanort WANTED the darkness within Terra's heart and it's power. He wanted that body. Even if Terra was giving him trouble, I don't think Xehanort would just call it quits and retreat.

So even though this whole process is very open ended, I think that it was Terra's desire to stab himself the second time, yet he needed Eraqus to do it.

and that's exactly where I come up with my question: Who was in control in that moment? I know it, doesn't fit in here, but still. I played meanwhile three times through/watched this cutscene several times and my answer is not really given. You see, we have three characters here who were somehow present in that moment => Master Xehanort => Terra and the mix up of the two = Terranort/young Xehanort.

I also read through everything I could find, no matter if it was the KH Wiki or somewhere else, but meanwhile I have come up with three versions (the last one as additional thought I had as I, again went through all of this):

1. It was Master Xehanort there who tried to kick out Terra, as it was "his" body now from his point of view (similar to Hojo in FFVII DoC who who possessed Weiss body and refused his defeat as Weiss' brother Nero merged with latter, also saying that it was "his body now" before he got destroyed for good.

2. It was Terra who tried to kick out MX, again (what normally makes more sense, yes, but...)

3. It was young Xehanort himself who just reacted in that moment as the two hearts within him wanted to kick each other out, what then caused this mess up.

(4. Both at the same time - also, something similar to my "out of control experiment" - that also could have happened)

Eraqus wasn't there at that point and I really doubt that he either might have to do with anything - I mean, only because his heart is now in Terra, wouldn't have stopped him to appear in some form, without just being mentioned. I just think that he might be able to see what's happening around him, but is not able to affect anything, since his merging with Terra was more than unique. The only purpose, he could have gone after was to stop Xehanort and to protect Terra in some form with his heart (almost) full of light - that also would explain at some point why Terra still was at the same level as MX in the Blank Points, not only because it still was his heart, but more 'cause of Eraqus' interfering what stopped Xehanort from taking control over Terra's body AND Heart.
 

chasespicer056

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IIRC, MX did the stabbing, not Terra.

Keyblade, or, him just having the ability to open doors. Like, how Sora didn't need a keyblade to open the DtL, while Ven used one himself. Furthermore, Xehanort talked about the keyblade in his reports as if he didn't have one, implying that he didn't.

That was the Keyblade of Peoples' Heart, which has the exclusive ability to open one's heart up to darkness.

Well, that's because XH is Xehanort's heartless, not Terra's heartless. Also, If XH was solely MX's heart, wouldn't he look like the spitting image of him?

Bodies don't influence the appearance of a complete being, nor do dormant hearts in some cases (Riku's heart left his body anyways).
For instance, Sora+Roxas=Sora's appearance

So XH had the young appearance from the start.
A bit of a stretch, IMO...That, and if seeds could give apparitions, Braig could've given them at some point in the story.

Again, it's unclear who did the stabbing. I still think it was Terra possibly. And why would Xehanort say "GET OUT OF MY HEART" and then accidentally seal Terra? He did fine when he released his own heart from his old body.

You're forgetting that in addition to the Keyblade of People's hearts, MX says that the ability to release one's heart can be done with ANY Keyblade but must be done by a master.

No. That's the point. XH is a corrupted heart, and upon taking on a new body, changes its appearance. Terra didn't look EXACTLY like MX when he was taken over.

Bodies don't change a heart's appearance. HEARTS change a BODY's appearance, just like when MX possessed Terra. There's a difference.

A bit of a stretch? Why else would they have the same VA? Every other pair of characters with the same VA (Sora and Vanitas, Ansem and Apprentice Xehanort, Roxas and Ven) have had a connection. Why would these two have the same voice then?

1. It was Master Xehanort there who tried to kick out Terra, as it was "his" body now from his point of view (similar to Hojo in FFVII DoC who who possessed Weiss body and refused his defeat as Weiss' brother Nero merged with latter, also saying that it was "his body now" before he got destroyed for good.

2. It was Terra who tried to kick out MX, again (what normally makes more sense, yes, but...)

3. It was young Xehanort himself who just reacted in that moment as the two hearts within him wanted to kick each other out, what then caused this mess up.

(4. Both at the same time - also, something similar to my "out of control experiment" - that also could have happened)

Here's what the person in control of Terra's body said at that point:

"This'll teach you. GET OUT OF MY HEART!!!"

Then that person LOCKED the hearts together instead. So whoever it was screwed up. MX wouldn't screw up because he did it to his own body earlier and is a master of the Keyblade. But Terra doesn't know that only a master can do that, so he tries it and fails.
 

Vani

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Wow thats a good theory. It does make a lot of sense and Eraqus heart taking control of Terras body is something no one has really thought of before.... But Eraqus keyblade is with Aqua, of course the keyblade can appear in two places at once but it still seems a little iffy.
Regardless good theory.
 

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Again, it's unclear who did the stabbing. I still think it was Terra possibly. And why would Xehanort say "GET OUT OF MY HEART" and then accidentally seal Terra? He did fine when he released his own heart from his old body.

You're forgetting that in addition to the Keyblade of People's hearts, MX says that the ability to release one's heart can be done with ANY Keyblade but must be done by a master.

No. That's the point. XH is a corrupted heart, and upon taking on a new body, changes its appearance. Terra didn't look EXACTLY like MX when he was taken over.

Bodies don't change a heart's appearance. HEARTS change a BODY's appearance, just like when MX possessed Terra. There's a difference.

A bit of a stretch? Why else would they have the same VA? Every other pair of characters with the same VA (Sora and Vanitas, Ansem and Apprentice Xehanort, Roxas and Ven) have had a connection. Why would these two have the same voice then?



Here's what the person in control of Terra's body said at that point:

"This'll teach you. GET OUT OF MY HEART!!!"

Then that person LOCKED the hearts together instead. So whoever it was screwed up. MX wouldn't screw up because he did it to his own body earlier and is a master of the Keyblade. But Terra doesn't know that only a master can do that, so he tries it and fails.

That's where theory 3 of mine would explain it best - it wasn't either Terra nor MX who did the stabbing single, but both at the same time.

Take a body and two souls who fight against each other. The result of the body, both possess is that it only messes up with that what the souls inside him want him to do - that's what I think about MX and T - both wanted to kick each other out, both concentrated on Terranort and latter then tried to fulfill the order of both of his "masters" what only lead to a whole mess, since he couldn't free two hearts at a same time - oh my, my head hurts now.
 

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1. Where does the game say that? Although that's also a possibility. Still, all that would change is that Terra, not Eraqus, may have been able to stab himself and release the heart the second time.

It is NOT UNCLEAR on WHO did the STABBING WHEN The timeline in the trinity archives says MX did it to Rid himself of Terra.

2.Terra would connect with RIku in a similar way to how Sora connected with Ven. Sora just found Ven's heart. They didn't have a connection prior to that. But Riku and Terra ALREADY have a connection, which makes it even more likely. Nomura didn't say WHY he wouldn't address that. He just said he wouldn't talk about that yet. But again, another possibility.

But I don't see how Terra would be able to do this because with Ven it was a different situation, him being a fractured heart and all and having already connected to Sora prior. Not much points to Riku and Terra connecting in a similar fashion that Ven and Sora did. Riku didn't have any outside influences until Ansem SoD set foot in him. Other than that...I don't see how Terra got in there.

3. His true appearance is something that is also open ended. I'm saying that when Ansem SOD possessed Riku, that appearance was an appearance combination of Ansem SOD + Riku, just like how when MX possessed Terra, the body was influenced by MX and thus had changes like the eyes turning yellow, hair turning white, and skin turning darker.

I'm saying that it is not a combination of Riku and Ansem SoD because Ansem SoD kicked Riku out. Riku's heart was in the RoD when Ansem SoD became tangible/looked like Xehanort in front of Sora. Riku's heart appeared in front of Xehanort's Heartless(when he was using Riku's body) in KH1 to protect Kairi and then was hurled in RoD. The vessel changes with the appearance of the heart residing in it. therefore what we see is all Ansem SoD.

Here's why I CANNOT accept that Terra and Eraqus are in Ansem SOD. Ansem SOD does not have a SINGLE trait of theirs. He only has shown traits of MX. If you give me just one example, just one, of him saying something that Terra or Eraqus would or doing something they would, then please do. Because I honestly can't think of any.

In the Secret Ending Eraqus's heart being apart of Terra made no changes to Terra's appearance, firstly. Second MX and Terra's hearts were merging/mixing together rather than being sheltered to one and another like Sora and Ven, hence the reason why Apprentice Xehanort looks like a mix of the two. Maybe MX is the acting force. maybe MX consumed most of what Terra was. Why wasn't Xehanort's Heartless a hunched back old man instead of a body builder shape that matches Terra's? MX was commandeering the Ansem SoD and once he entered Riku and Riku fought with him until KH2 where the foreign darkness was blasted out only then would Terra be able to left over. That's how I see it anyway. Even the same VA's. A mashed up MX and Terra (Terranort) takes the same voice as Ansem SoD...a mashed up MX and Terra
 
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Nayru's Love

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Again, it's unclear who did the stabbing. I still think it was Terra possibly. And why would Xehanort say "GET OUT OF MY HEART" and then accidentally seal Terra? He did fine when he released his own heart from his old body.
BBS timeline said something like, "In a desperate situation, MX turned the keyblade on himself." That, and MX was in an unusual situation, one where even he might not have known the circumstances of.

You're forgetting that in addition to the Keyblade of People's hearts, MX says that the ability to release one's heart can be done with ANY Keyblade but must be done by a master.
If you're saying that Xehanort used the keyblade on himself (again), it wouldn't have turned him into a heartless.

No. That's the point. XH is a corrupted heart, and upon taking on a new body, changes its appearance. Terra didn't look EXACTLY like MX when he was taken over.
Terranort=/=Rikunort
XH didn't influence Riku's look like MX did to Terra, he completely changed his body without a hint of Riku. This is supported by how Riku's heart leaving his body had no influence on XH's appearance at all.

Bodies don't change a heart's appearance. HEARTS change a BODY's appearance, just like when MX possessed Terra. There's a difference.
I'm inclined to think that Terranort was a heart changing a heart's appearance.

A bit of a stretch? Why else would they have the same VA? Every other pair of characters with the same VA (Sora and Vanitas, Ansem and Apprentice Xehanort, Roxas and Ven) have had a connection. Why would these two have the same voice then?
There might be a connection through fate, as in Riku growing up to be a bit like MX, but same voice actors doesn't heavily imply a story-driven connection; I mean, we didn't see Braig's voice drop some octaves.
 

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It is NOT UNCLEAR on WHO did the STABBING WHEN The timeline in the trinity archives says MX did it to Rid himself of Terra.

and? only because it's standing there, doesn't mean it has to be the full truth.

In the Secret Ending Eraqus's heart being apart of Terra made no changes to Terra's appearance, firstly. Second MX and Terra's hearts were merging/mixing together rather than being sheltered to one and another like Sora and Ven, hence the reason why Apprentice Xehanort looks like a mix of the two. Maybe MX is the acting force. maybe MX consumed most of what Terra was. Why wasn't Xehanort's Heartless a hunched back old man instead of a body builder shape that matches Terra's? MX was commandeering the Ansem SoD and once he entered Riku and Riku fought with him until KH2 where the foreign darkness was blasted out only then would Terra be able to left over. That's how I see it anyway.

Xehanort generally controlled all of his split beings, the only thing that was more dominant is how much Terra had an influence in Ansem SoD and Xemnas - since MX still was within young Xehanort, it also only resulted his Heartless to be like this and not as some bald old man... if MX would've left Terra's body at there... well, anyway. The point is that MX was in Terra from the beginning and that's why Xehanort will return in his Apprentice State and not as MX in MX's body - I just think that MX will only return so far as we've seen him in BBS, Terranort with MX's character and his full memories.
 

chasespicer056

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It is NOT UNCLEAR on WHO did the STABBING WHEN The timeline in the trinity archives says MX did it to Rid himself of Terra.

But I don't see how Terra would be able to do this because with Ven it was a different situation, him being a fractured heart and all and having already connected to Sora prior. Not much points to Riku and Terra connecting in a similar fashion that Ven and Sora did. Riku didn't have any outside influences until Ansem SoD set foot in him. Other than that...I don't see how Terra got in there.

I'm saying that it is not a combination of Riku and Ansem SoD because Ansem SoD kicked Riku out. Riku's heart was in the RoD when Ansem SoD became tangible/looked like Xehanort in front of Sora. Riku's heart appeared in front of Xehanort's Heartless(when he was using Riku's body) in KH1 to protect Kairi and then was hurled in RoD. The vessel changes with the appearance of the heart residing in it. therefore what we see is all Ansem SoD.

In the Secret Ending Eraqus's heart being apart of Terra made no changes to Terra's appearance, firstly. Second MX and Terra's hearts were merging/mixing together rather than being sheltered to one and another like Sora and Ven, hence the reason why Apprentice Xehanort looks like a mix of the two. Maybe MX is the acting force. maybe MX consumed most of what Terra was. Why wasn't Xehanort's Heartless a hunched back old man instead of a body builder shape that matches Terra's? MX was commandeering the Ansem SoD and once he entered Riku and Riku fought with him until KH2 where the foreign darkness was blasted out only then would Terra be able to left over. That's how I see it anyway. Even the same VA's. A mashed up MX and Terra (Terranort) takes the same voice as Ansem SoD...a mashed up MX and Terra

Really? Sorry I didn't realize. Wow that's so stupid then. MX messed up completely. He said he was going to get rid of Terra and ended up screwing himself.

Yes the body changes depending on the heart.

If Ven's fractured heart could wind up meeting Sora's, I'm sure Terra's could meet Riku's.

When Terra appeared in the secret ending, that was an abstract version of himself to represent his heart (and Eraqus's too) inside the heart of the new Xehanort. Xehanort the Apprentice doesn't look like that.
 

Relix

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Really? Sorry I didn't realize. Wow that's so stupid then. MX messed up completely. He said he was going to get rid of Terra and ended up screwing himself.

Yeah I used to think the same thing, until I actually took the time to look at the timeline.

Yes the body changes depending on the heart.
Which means that the fact that Ansem SoD had no hint of Riku in KH1 when he was commandeering Riku's body means that Riku wasn't within his heart. It also means Terranort/Apprentice Xehanort, Ansem SoD, and Xemnas are mashed up reincarnations of MX and Terra. Dominance within each reincarnation is what is unknown to us and is what Nomura said he'll address in his next future installment (KH3D)

If Ven's fractured heart could wind up meeting Sora's, I'm sure Terra's could meet Riku's.
Ven's heart reached out for Sora. He was familiar with it. Sora felt this and reached out as well. Terra and Riku met physically and for a brief moment. I don't see Terra reaching out to the boy and Riku accepting him. Nothing pointed as such.

When Terra appeared in the secret ending, that was an abstract version of himself to represent his heart (and Eraqus's too) inside the heart of the new Xehanort. Xehanort the Apprentice doesn't look like that.

And yet Eraqus was nowhere to be seen. He has little change on Terra's appearance externally(Appretice Xehanort) or internally(Terra and MX's chat).
 

chasespicer056

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Yeah I used to think the same thing, until I actually took the time to look at the timeline.

Which means that the fact that Ansem SoD had no hint of Riku in KH1 when he was commandeering Riku's body means that Riku wasn't within his heart. It also means Terranort/Apprentice Xehanort, Ansem SoD, and Xemnas are mashed up reincarnations of MX and Terra. Dominance within each reincarnation is what is unknown to us and is what Nomura said he'll address in his next future installment (KH3D)

Ven's heart reached out for Sora. He was familiar with it. Sora felt this and reached out as well. Terra and Riku met physically and for a brief moment. I don't see Terra reaching out to the boy and Riku accepting him. Nothing pointed as such.

And yet Eraqus was nowhere to be seen. He has little change on Terra's appearance externally(Appretice Xehanort) or internally(Terra and MX's chat).

Wait, Relix...I'm looking at the timeline now, and it's a little off. Look at this part:

Aqua's last thoughts before vanishing sight were of Ven, and who would care for him once she was gone.

She didn't say that. She just promised she'd come back someday, and the timeline doesn't even mention her saying that.

Thus, I think this timeline is just interpretive to an extent, and shouldn't be taken at face value. And the fact it says "Xehanort" stabbed himself with the Keyblade instead of MX is also strange.

But yea, it definitely could have been MX. I just don't think it would make sense for him to screw up. He's done it properly before.

I'm not saying that Terra was ALWAYS connected to Riku. I'm saying that just as Ven joined with Sora's heart to continue onward, Terra decided to become part of Riku's. And the scene of Xehanort becoming a Heartless was never shown either, so this part could come right after.


Oh, and here's something I realized about hearts joining together:

*Ven joins with Sora, no change in appearance
*Xehanort joins with Terra, change in appearance
*Kairi joins with Sora (KH1), no change in appearance.

It seems that when one is being POSSESSED by another's heart, the appearance change, otherwise it doesn't. So although Eraqus is in Terra, his appearance is the same.
 

Nayru's Love

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Thus, I think this timeline is just interpretive to an extent, and shouldn't be taken at face value. And the fact it says "Xehanort" stabbed himself with the Keyblade instead of MX is also strange.
The writers put in those clues for their own reasons, probably to explain what the story couldn't. If it's in the game, and it's straight from the writers, I think it'd hold just as much validity as any other cold, hard fact of the series (unless this is an example of a terrible, terrible translation).

But yea, it definitely could have been MX. I just don't think it would make sense for him to screw up. He's done it properly before.
Food for thought: how does MX fail at extracting a heart inside him, yet XH can do it himself?

Oh, and here's something I realized about hearts joining together:

*Ven joins with Sora, no change in appearance
*Xehanort joins with Terra, change in appearance
*Kairi joins with Sora (KH1), no change in appearance.

It seems that when one is being POSSESSED by another's heart, the appearance change, otherwise it doesn't. So although Eraqus is in Terra, his appearance is the same.
Yeah, I agree. I like to think that hearts can sleep inside the hearts of others, while hearts taking over other hearts changes appearances (with the exception of Rikunort, for whatever reason).
 
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