Theory for a "secret" true villain for KH III

[Tigerruss]

Vanitas took over Xehanort, and now all the "Xehanorts" are really Vanitases. You might be wondering how I came to this theory, and be arguing it simply isn't possible. So, lets start off with what sparked this theory.
A specific scene in DDD.
[#37 | HD Unsubbed] Out There - Kingdom Hearts 3D [Dream Drop Distance] - YouTube (it is queued to the proper time)
You see Vanitas manifesting next to Young Xehanort, almost as if Vanitas was speaking through him. But this is the only time we saw Vanitas as a part of Xehanort right? Wrong. The trailer for BBS in KH II FM+, we see a transparent version of Master Xehanort separate from himself and become Vanitas. Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix cutscene: 16 - Birth by sleep - YouTube
Another reason why a version of Vanitas might be inside Xehanort, possibly being the real antagonist.

Now that I said what led me to this theory, how could it be possible? Especially since Xehanort created Vanitas much later in Xehanort's life span than he was in that scene in DDD. But I ask you this, Wasn't the theme of DDD time travel? One of the rules being: "You must leave your body behind." Well that would be easy for Vanitas, for I am not sure he officially has a body. "There must be a version of you waiting at the destination." Well the line, "My future self gave me a task." could mean a Xehanort traveled back in time, and if Vanitas took over that future self, he could then travel back and take over Xehanort. Still it is entering nasty paradox waters... Either way that is the only way I could justify it happening.
Here is a link to where he says the rules of time travel. #163 | The Past Xehanort - [All Cutscenes - No Subs] Kingdom Hearts 3D [Dream Drop Distance] - YouTube

So, what do people here think about this theory? Honestly, I both doubt it is true, and I hope it isn't true. But...I have this feeling that it might happen just to give us one final twist...

 

[Seighart]

That would be awesome. I never thought of it that way lol. It's like, "What if Vanitas possessed him while he was traveling worlds?". I like.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

While the theory is certainly interesting, there are some things that make it unlikely:

1. In the scene "out there" Vanitas just appeared because he reacted to Ventus' heart inside Sora which was reacting to the Darkness of Young Xehanort.

— Why did Xehanort and co. word things as if to try and wake Ventus who is inside Sora?
Nomura: They did so in order to tempt Sora’s heart and have it fall to the darkness. In the story it also talks about how abandoning the self leads to losing the heart. When you see Vanitas (the dark half of Ventus who appeared in KHBBS) overlay Young Xehanort for a moment, that represents Ventus’ heart reacting inside Sora.

It is also not confirmed that Sora even saw Vanitas, since his reaction was more subdued and more centered around what Young Xehanort told him rather than wondering why a second being looking similar to him appeared. So it may just be a visual representation for the audience to show that Ven's heart is reacting within Sora.

2. The CGI-secret endings like the one of KH 2 FM+ are just concept videos and things that happen there that aren't in the actual game BBS, like Ven's Keyblade shattering when he falls from the cliff, Terra's eyes turning yellow when he takes off his helmet or this scene of Vanitas coming out of Xehanort, are not considered canon to the actual storyline.

It's not only that Xehanort created Vanitas, but also that he most likely already prepared Vanitas as another seed since the beginning since he has the golden Xehanort eyes. That aside, Vanitas was never in any position to effectively oppose Xehanort, he would wipe the floor with him easily.
That Vanitas has no body and, for that matter, no physical form at all atm is correct though, as this was confirmed by Nomura.

— What about Vanitas?
Nomura: Vanitas is different than Xemnas and Ansem; he doesn’t necessarily have a physical form. He reacted to Ventus within Sora, so that’s how he was visible.

The Xehanort that travelled back in time to give Young Xehanort his task though was Ansem SoD in the form of the Robed Figure, and the Robed Figure is just a floating heart.

 

[billyzanesucks]

I've had pretty much the same theory for a while now. I think it'd be a great twist.

1. In the scene "out there" Vanitas just appeared because he reacted to Ventus' heart inside Sora which was reacting to the Darkness of Young Xehanort.

It is also not confirmed that Sora even saw Vanitas, since his reaction was more subdued and more centered around what Young Xehanort told him rather than wondering why a second being looking similar to him appeared. So it may just be a visual representation for the audience to show that Ven's heart is reacting within Sora.

Even though he didn't exist physically, it's entirely possible that Ven detected Vanitas's heart within YX. I don't think it particularly gets in the way of this theory.

2. The CGI-secret endings like the one of KH 2 FM+ are just concept videos and things that happen there that aren't in the actual game BBS, like Ven's Keyblade shattering when he falls from the cliff, Terra's eyes turning yellow when he takes off his helmet or this scene of Vanitas coming out of Xehanort, are not considered canon to the actual storyline.

It's not only that Xehanort created Vanitas, but also that he most likely already prepared Vanitas as another seed since the beginning since he has the golden Xehanort eyes. That aside, Vanitas was never in any position to effectively oppose Xehanort, he would wipe the floor with him easily.

I think that what didn't actually happen in BbS is what should be taken under the most consideration. Terra's eyes didn't turn gold at that instant, but he did become possessed by Xehanort later. Ven's keyblade didn't really break, but his heart did. TAV didn't pick up the KK, KKD and WtD, but Terra ended his journey in the RoL (the origin of the KK), Aqua ended hers in the RoD (the origin of the KKD), and Ven's body was caught in between, with his heart awaiting rebirth into the RoL (symbolized by the WtD). It wouldn't be all that unlikely for the scene to be foreshadowing something.

The Xehanort that travelled back in time to give Young Xehanort his task though was Ansem SoD in the form of the Robed Figure, and the Robed Figure is just a floating heart.

Vanitas still could have been influencing Ansem, though, especially if Vanitas is connected to the Guardian as I suspect.

 

[Tigerruss]

While the theory is certainly interesting, there are some things that make it unlikely:

1. In the scene "out there" Vanitas just appeared because he reacted to Ventus' heart inside Sora which was reacting to the Darkness of Young Xehanort.

It is also not confirmed that Sora even saw Vanitas, since his reaction was more subdued and more centered around what Young Xehanort told him rather than wondering why a second being looking similar to him appeared. So it may just be a visual representation for the audience to show that Ven's heart is reacting within Sora.

Wouldn't it make more sense if Ven's heart was reacting to see Ven either overlay Sora for a moment, like they do to say "Hey that person is still in Sora"? Though I guess when Sora had Kairi's heart inside him, he saw her wandering around, or overlaying people from time to time. But it was Kairi he saw. Though I guess one could say the same thing about Vanitas appearing to the side and not superimposing over YX, if it was Vanitas speaking through him.

Though, there are only three possible reasons for YX to say that to Sora in that scene.
1. Xehanort would like him to get rid of a heart of pure light before trying the take Sora over. Though in later scenes we see no proof of this being the case.

2. Xehanort wants to make Sora think, and get pulled down into the buried secrets in his heart. This one is a more likely reason.

3. Vanitas is frustrated that Sora is keeping Ven "safe".

2. The CGI-secret endings like the one of KH 2 FM+ are just concept videos and things that happen there that aren't in the actual game BBS, like Ven's Keyblade shattering when he falls from the cliff, Terra's eyes turning yellow when he takes off his helmet or this scene of Vanitas coming out of Xehanort, are not considered canon to the actual storyline.

It's not only that Xehanort created Vanitas, but also that he most likely already prepared Vanitas as another seed since the beginning since he has the golden Xehanort eyes. That aside, Vanitas was never in any position to effectively oppose Xehanort, he would wipe the floor with him easily.

The CGI sequence was a concept like you said, and since it is was a concept video, someone must have had the idea of Vanitas being inside Xehanort. Who knows how that concept has changed, but the concept was there. That was the point I was trying to make, I wasn't trying to say that in the game BBS we actually see that happening.

That Vanitas has no body and, for that matter, no physical form at all atm is correct though, as this was confirmed by Nomura.

The Xehanort that travelled back in time to give Young Xehanort his task though was Ansem SoD in the form of the Robed Figure, and the Robed Figure is just a floating heart.

And yes I know, that but I was saying that if Vanitas took over a future Xehanort, he could also end up going back in time and taking over Young Xehanort. Since he doesn't have a physical form, his travels through time wouldn't be impeded by a body.

I've had pretty much the same theory for a while now. I think it'd be a great twist.


Even though he didn't exist physically, it's entirely possible that Ven detected Vanitas's heart within YX. I don't think it particularly gets in the way of this theory.


I think that what didn't actually happen in BbS is what should be taken under the most consideration. Terra's eyes didn't turn gold at that instant, but he did become possessed by Xehanort later. Ven's keyblade didn't really break, but his heart did. TAV didn't pick up the KK, KKD and WtD, but Terra ended his journey in the RoL (the origin of the KK), Aqua ended hers in the RoD (the origin of the KKD), and Ven's body was caught in between, with his heart awaiting rebirth into the RoL (symbolized by the WtD). It wouldn't be all that unlikely for the scene to be foreshadowing something.


Vanitas still could have been influencing Ansem, though, especially if Vanitas is connected to the Guardian as I suspect.

Hmm, that is an interesting idea, Vanitas acting as the Guardian. And if it was Ansem SoD that went back in time to give Xehanort the task, that would be the perfect time for Vanitas to break off for a moment and then take over YX. And if he took over YX, he could produce a stable loop. Where he goes back in time to take over Xehanort, that leads him to eventually creating himself that will go through the process again. And since the loop would self perpetuate, there is little to no problems with it. Except that it would require Xehanort to experiment on Ven to start off the cycle, even if he isn't truly the one doing it after the first loop happens.

And it is nice to see someone else actually had the idea...but I still feel like it would make things a more needlessly complicated than they already are. I guess now if it does actually happen, you and I can join "I saw it coming" club.

 

[destiny seeker]

Interesting theory, and a very nice twist indeed. However on a side note, I believe in the BBS novels it talks about how Master Xehanort was the one made Vanitas turn on Ven because Vanitas felt incomplete inside. So though it would be awesome if Vanitas was the real true villain this may go against that idea.

 

[ChibiHearts249]

I wasn't paying close attention at the time, but did anyone catch Vanitas' ears through his mop of hair? Were they pointy?

 

[billyzanesucks]

Hmm, that is an interesting idea, Vanitas acting as the Guardian. And if it was Ansem SoD that went back in time to give Xehanort the task, that would be the perfect time for Vanitas to break off for a moment and then take over YX. And if he took over YX, he could produce a stable loop. Where he goes back in time to take over Xehanort, that leads him to eventually creating himself that will go through the process again. And since the loop would self perpetuate, there is little to no problems with it. Except that it would require Xehanort to experiment on Ven to start off the cycle, even if he isn't truly the one doing it after the first loop happens.

Exactly. I think this infinite loop might culminate in the creation of a dark Kingdom Hearts with which Vanitas plans to eliminate or eclipse the true Kingdom Hearts. This unending supply of hearts may also explain how Xehanort invades his vessels and why he was unfazed when Lea seemingly destroyed part of his heart.

Come to think of it, YX doesn't have pointy ears, does he? Could be evidence that it's a trait of Vanitas rather than Xehanort himself. It's unfortunate that it's impossible to make out Vanitas's ears.

 

[Ruran]

Wouldn't it make more sense if Ven's heart was reacting to see Ven either overlay Sora for a moment, like they do to say "Hey that person is still in Sora"? Though I guess when Sora had Kairi's heart inside him, he saw her wandering around, or overlaying people from time to time. But it was Kairi he saw. Though I guess one could say the same thing about Vanitas appearing to the side and not superimposing over YX, if it was Vanitas speaking through him.

Derp derp?

Both Vanitas and Ven's hearts were reacting to each other, I reckon the purpose of seeing Vanitas apparate was to show that there was some sort of attempt to bring Vanitas forward in time but lacking a proper body, he couldn't make the leap. It's also possible that YMX is carrying Vanitas's heart but I think it's for entirely different reasons.

Though, there are only three possible reasons for YX to say that to Sora in that scene.
1. Xehanort would like him to get rid of a heart of pure light before trying the take Sora over. Though in later scenes we see no proof of this being the case.

2. Xehanort wants to make Sora think, and get pulled down into the buried secrets in his heart. This one is a more likely reason.

3. Vanitas is frustrated that Sora is keeping Ven "safe".

'tis numero dos.

The CGI sequence was a concept like you said, and since it is was a concept video, someone must have had the idea of Vanitas being inside Xehanort. Who knows how that concept has changed, but the concept was there. That was the point I was trying to make, I wasn't trying to say that in the game BBS we actually see that happening.

Seeing as how we first see another MX spawn from the original MX before turning into Vanitas I took it more to signify that Vanitas is a 'Nort. The concept probably has changed but it lines up more with the idea that Vanitas is a seed and is apart of MX.

And yes I know, that but I was saying that if Vanitas took over a future Xehanort, he could also end up going back in time and taking over Young Xehanort. Since he doesn't have a physical form, his travels through time wouldn't be impeded by a body.

I don't think it works that way.

I'd rather they not pull the "MX wasn't the real villain all along" card. It's kind of a cop-out, especially considering that this is "The Xehanort Saga/The Dark Seeker Saga/The Seekers of Darkness Saga". Or what ehvs. The series is built way too much around MX being the main villain only to pull someone totally different out on us at the last minute.

 

[MATGSY]

They'll probably asspull some someone completely new for the final boss.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

I've had pretty much the same theory for a while now. I think it'd be a great twist.


Even though he didn't exist physically, it's entirely possible that Ven detected Vanitas's heart within YX. I don't think it particularly gets in the way of this theory.


I think that what didn't actually happen in BbS is what should be taken under the most consideration. Terra's eyes didn't turn gold at that instant, but he did become possessed by Xehanort later. Ven's keyblade didn't really break, but his heart did. TAV didn't pick up the KK, KKD and WtD, but Terra ended his journey in the RoL (the origin of the KK), Aqua ended hers in the RoD (the origin of the KKD), and Ven's body was caught in between, with his heart awaiting rebirth into the RoL (symbolized by the WtD). It wouldn't be all that unlikely for the scene to be foreshadowing something.


Vanitas still could have been influencing Ansem, though, especially if Vanitas is connected to the Guardian as I suspect.

It's entirely possible that Young Xehanort (or any of the other Norts) actually carries Vanitas' heart, but that does in no way indicate at all that Vanitas is the one in control.
Especially not with the two facts remaining that a) Xehanort is the one who comes up with all those elaborate plans, golden eyes are a sign of Xehanort, as confirmed by Nomura, not a Sign of Vanitas and b) after the final battle in BBS Vanitas' heart should be as shattered as Ven's if not even worse off, since well, y'know, he lost the fight against Ven.

It may be seen as a form of foreshadowing for BBS istelf, but even then, in that Video Vanitas comes from Xehanort (foreshadowing that Xehanort actually created him) and by spinning the thought further since he looked like another Master Xehanort first it actually implies that he's a seed, which his golden eyes also heavily imply.

As if Vanitas could influence someone as powerful as Ansem SoD, haha, he may be an axe crazy maniac enjoying to see others suffer, but a master strategist and cunning tactician like Xehanort he is not.
Not even Yen Sid and Mickey could outsmart Xehanort so far.

Wouldn't it make more sense if Ven's heart was reacting to see Ven either overlay Sora for a moment, like they do to say "Hey that person is still in Sora"? Though I guess when Sora had Kairi's heart inside him, he saw her wandering around, or overlaying people from time to time. But it was Kairi he saw. Though I guess one could say the same thing about Vanitas appearing to the side and not superimposing over YX, if it was Vanitas speaking through him.

Though, there are only three possible reasons for YX to say that to Sora in that scene.
1. Xehanort would like him to get rid of a heart of pure light before trying the take Sora over. Though in later scenes we see no proof of this being the case.

2. Xehanort wants to make Sora think, and get pulled down into the buried secrets in his heart. This one is a more likely reason.

3. Vanitas is frustrated that Sora is keeping Ven "safe".



The CGI sequence was a concept like you said, and since it is was a concept video, someone must have had the idea of Vanitas being inside Xehanort. Who knows how that concept has changed, but the concept was there. That was the point I was trying to make, I wasn't trying to say that in the game BBS we actually see that happening.



And yes I know, that but I was saying that if Vanitas took over a future Xehanort, he could also end up going back in time and taking over Young Xehanort. Since he doesn't have a physical form, his travels through time wouldn't be impeded by a body.




Hmm, that is an interesting idea, Vanitas acting as the Guardian. And if it was Ansem SoD that went back in time to give Xehanort the task, that would be the perfect time for Vanitas to break off for a moment and then take over YX. And if he took over YX, he could produce a stable loop. Where he goes back in time to take over Xehanort, that leads him to eventually creating himself that will go through the process again. And since the loop would self perpetuate, there is little to no problems with it. Except that it would require Xehanort to experiment on Ven to start off the cycle, even if he isn't truly the one doing it after the first loop happens.

And it is nice to see someone else actually had the idea...but I still feel like it would make things a more needlessly complicated than they already are. I guess now if it does actually happen, you and I can join "I saw it coming" club.

The Ultimania-quote I posted actually answers both of these issues, as it clearly says that Vanitas even being visible was Ven's heart reacting and that Young Xehanort was trying to tempt Sora's heart by stirring Ven's heart (later on Xemnas and Xigbar do the same) So point 2 is correct.
In the last world while in the deepest dreams Sora actually has direct contact with the hearts of Naminé, Xion, Roxas and finally Ven.
In fact, at that time Ven's heart is stirred so much Sora actually does turn into Ven's form shortly when he sees Riku and Kairi as Terra and Aqua.

Like I pointed out above, if we really go by taking those concepts into consideration it can also be foreshadowing to Vanitas being a Xehanort-seed, as it has practically already been confirmed that Xehanort is the one controlling the new Organisation.

Seeing as how we first see another MX spawn from the original MX before turning into Vanitas I took it more to signify that Vanitas is a 'Nort. The concept probably has changed but it lines up more with the idea that Vanitas is a seed and is apart of MX.


I'd rather they not pull the "MX wasn't the real villain all along" card. It's kind of a cop-out, especially considering that this is "The Xehanort Saga/The Dark Seeker Saga/The Seekers of Darkness Saga". Or what ehvs. The series is built way too much around MX being the main villain only to pull someone totally different out on us at the last minute.

Lol, most of the stuff you say could come straight from my mind as well. Guess I got ninja'd.

But yep, that's also what I would take from this concept. One may even argue that Terra getting the golden eyes was not only foreshadowing his eventual possession by Xehanort, but also his status as one of the vessels.

Right, it would remind me too much of Final Fantasy IX with Necron, not to mention Vanitas is not really the personality-type to be such a mastermind.
He's way too brash and impulsive to pull off such a long-spanning plan.

 

[billyzanesucks]

Derp derp?

Both Vanitas and Ven's hearts were reacting to each other, I reckon the purpose of seeing Vanitas apparate was to show that there was some sort of attempt to bring Vanitas forward in time but lacking a proper body, he couldn't make the leap. It's also possible that YMX is carrying Vanitas's heart but I think it's for entirely different reasons.

Why would YX not have simply gone to a time when Vanitas did have a body and picked him up then? Unless you mean that he lacked a proper body in the sense that it was created from nothing, but I don't really see how that would affect anything. It seems to work the same as other bodies.

Seeing as how we first see another MX spawn from the original MX before turning into Vanitas I took it more to signify that Vanitas is a 'Nort. The concept probably has changed but it lines up more with the idea that Vanitas is a seed and is apart of MX.

I can't help but think "possession" when I see a masked being of pure darkness spring from someone.

I don't think it works that way.

Considering the powers displayed by hearts so many times before, I wouldn't be surprised.

I'd rather they not pull the "MX wasn't the real villain all along" card. It's kind of a cop-out, especially considering that this is "The Xehanort Saga/The Dark Seeker Saga/The Seekers of Darkness Saga". Or what ehvs. The series is built way too much around MX being the main villain only to pull someone totally different out on us at the last minute.

It wouldn't necessarily mean that Xehanort wasn't the villain, just that he wasn't quite who we thought he was, like what happened with Ansem SoD and Apprentice Xehanort. I'm betting that Vanitas actually created the name "Xehanort" himself.

It's entirely possible that Young Xehanort (or any of the other Norts) actually carries Vanitas' heart, but that does in no way indicate at all that Vanitas is the one in control.
Especially not with the two facts remaining that a) Xehanort is the one who comes up with all those elaborate plans, golden eyes are a sign of Xehanort, as confirmed by Nomura, not a Sign of Vanitas and b) after the final battle in BBS Vanitas' heart should be as shattered as Ven's if not even worse off, since well, y'know, he lost the fight against Ven.

It may be seen as a form of foreshadowing for BBS istelf, but even then, in that Video Vanitas comes from Xehanort (foreshadowing that Xehanort actually created him) and by spinning the thought further since he looked like another Master Xehanort first it actually implies that he's a seed, which his golden eyes also heavily imply.

As if Vanitas could influence someone as powerful as Ansem SoD, haha, he may be an axe crazy maniac enjoying to see others suffer, but a master strategist and cunning tactician like Xehanort he is not.
Not even Yen Sid and Mickey could outsmart Xehanort so far.

How would any of the SoDs benefit from carrying a heart without a body of its own? Sure, maybe they could have used it to possess Sora or something, but Xehanort would be capable of doing that on his own based on what we are currently being told.

A: If golden eyes are a sign of Xehanort, and Xehanort is Vanitas, then golden eyes are a sign of Vanitas. Naturally, Nomura would not just say that Xehanort was Vanitas, whether it was true or not. B: If Vanitas's heart went to Xehanort after defeat, it may have been able to regain its strength and become more logical after touching a heart that wasn't pure darkness or light.

Perhaps I shouldn't have said "influence". I meant that Ansem SoD may have transferred Vanitas's heart to YX to ensure his ability to move through time and, because of the loop, that Vanitas would end up taking over, gradually.

 

[Ruran]

Why would YX not have simply gone to a time when Vanitas did have a body and picked him up then? Unless you mean that he lacked a proper body in the sense that it was created from nothing, but I don't really see how that would affect anything. It seems to work the same as other bodies.

One of the requirements for time travel is that "there must be an existing version of you waiting at the designated time". Vanitas doesn't have an "existing version" of himself in the present time because he was destroyed in BbS, hence, why Vanitas wasn't running around the RoS with everyone else trying to make Sora's and Riku's lives miserable.

I can't help but think "possession" when I see a masked being of pure darkness spring from someone.

I think something more along the lines of "demon spawn".

Considering the powers displayed by hearts so many times before, I wouldn't be surprised.

While I don't care much for the inclusion of time travel, fortunately the rules have been fairly rigid in regards to what one can and can't do. One of the other rules of time travel is that one must discard their body to do so, so making this plan of possessing a Xehanort and going back in time to take over YMX is kind of redundant. If Vanitas had that sort of power he would have done it already.

It wouldn't necessarily mean that Xehanort wasn't the villain, just that he wasn't quite who we thought he was, like what happened with Ansem SoD and Apprentice Xehanort. I'm betting that Vanitas actually created the name "Xehanort" himself.

I don't see much of a difference. MX is the main villain and this entire saga is even named after him. It's like having "Harry Potter" but making Ron Weasley or Hermione Granger the main character.

How would any of the SoDs benefit from carrying a heart without a body of its own? Sure, maybe they could have used it to possess Sora or something, but Xehanort would be capable of doing that on his own based on what we are currently being told.

The common theory is that one of the 'Norts is carrying Vanitas's heart around for the same reason Sora's is carrying Ven's: to heal it.

A: If golden eyes are a sign of Xehanort, and Xehanort is Vanitas, then golden eyes are a sign of Vanitas. Naturally, Nomura would not just say that Xehanort was Vanitas, whether it was true or not. B: If Vanitas's heart went to Xehanort after defeat, it may have been able to regain its strength and become more logical after touching a heart that wasn't pure darkness or light.

That's relying way too much on "what ifs". There's nothing to suggest this is the case.

 

[billyzanesucks]

One of the requirements for time travel is that "there must be an existing version of you waiting at the designated time". Vanitas doesn't have an "existing version" of himself in the present time because he was destroyed in BbS, hence, why Vanitas wasn't running around the RoS with everyone else trying to make Sora's and Riku's lives miserable.

Why would Vanitas's heart be able to come along, then? Going on what we've heard, there should be a version of him waiting at his destination whether he's a bodiless heart or not.

While I don't care much for the inclusion of time travel, fortunately the rules have been fairly rigid in regards to what one can and can't do. One of the other rules of time travel is that one must discard their body to do so, so making this plan of possessing a Xehanort and going back in time to take over YMX is kind of redundant. If Vanitas had that sort of power he would have done it already.

I'm honestly clueless as to what you're trying to get across here.

I don't see much of a difference. MX is the main villain and this entire saga is even named after him. It's like having "Harry Potter" but making Ron Weasley or Hermione Granger the main character.

Not really; it's more like how "Ansem" was actually Xehanort. Besides, Nomura's taken to calling KH-KHIII the "Seeker of Darkness Chronicles"

The common theory is that one of the 'Norts is carrying Vanitas's heart around for the same reason Sora's is carrying Ven's: to heal it.

Again, what possible purpose could this serve? He has no body. Even if he could implant it into a body such as Ven's or Sora's, it wouldn't be much different from simply using Xehanort's (or Ansem SoD's or Xemnas's) own heart.

 

[Ruran]

Why would Vanitas's heart be able to come along, then? Going on what we've heard, there should be a version of him waiting at his destination whether he's a bodiless heart or not.

"Come along" with YMX when he confronted Sora? It's implied that he's a 'Nort and we're not entirely aware of the state and location of Vanitas's heart. The key word here is "existing". KH has somewhat blurred lines as to what constitutes as "existing" but it seems to refer to a full fledged being taking residence in the RoL. Which Vanitas is not. At most he's a floating heart. Again, if Vanitas could be brought forward via time travel we'd get more than a momentary apparition that only showed up because of Ven's presence.

I'm honestly clueless as to what you're trying to get across here.

It makes no sense to hijack a future 'Norts body to go back in time because you're supposed to leave it behind in order to do it. Vanitas has been without a body for around a decade, if he could time travel and take over YMX he would have done it already.

Not really; it's more like how "Ansem" was actually Xehanort. Besides, Nomura's taken to calling KH-KHIII the "Seeker of Darkness Chronicles"

MX IS the "Seeker of Darkness". MX has been set up as the main bad guy way more deeply than his other counterparts have, I don't see the point in overriding this setup. Not to mention we already had a twist like this in KH1. All of a Sudden making Vanitas the main bad guy, who over powers and out smarts MX non the less, I find extremely unsatisfying.

Again, what possible purpose could this serve? He has no body. Even if he could implant it into a body such as Ven's or Sora's, it wouldn't be much different from simply using Xehanort's (or Ansem SoD's or Xemnas's) own heart.

MX needs vessels. Within the KH universe constructing a body isn't all that difficult, one just needs the right resources. It's already been established that in KH3 there'll be a search for "The Key to Return Hearts" and that Sora has data that needs to be retrieved in order to help those who've "disappeared". Basically, a big part of KH3 is bringing fallen ones back and MX looking for more X-Blade fodder.

 

[ChibiHearts249]

Ummm...If I might dissolve this a bit?

Can we do a head count on: 1) peeps with gold eyes + pointy ears, and 2) peeps with only gold eyes

Plus, if Vanitas looks like Sora...would Sora having a version of himself at the "destination" help out Vanitas and the others, too? I mean, MX is simply AMAZING at manipulating our heroes. And technically since Sora has Ven's fragmented heart...might he have a bit of Vanitas too? Ven and Vanitas could both be considered the same AND different hearts. Could MX posess Sora through Vanitas through Ven? If YMX has a piece of Vanitas' heart, maybe the whole of Team Xehanort does. MX never said he'd give up on Sora, did he? This gives me chills just thinking about it. Sora's heart is connected to SO MANY hearts, why not Xehanort himself?

 

[billyzanesucks]

"Come along" with YMX when he confronted Sora? It's implied that he's a 'Nort and we're not entirely aware of the state and location of Vanitas's heart. The key word here is "existing". KH has somewhat blurred lines as to what constitutes as "existing" but it seems to refer to a full fledged being taking residence in the RoL. Which Vanitas is not. At most he's a floating heart. Again, if Vanitas could be brought forward via time travel we'd get more than a momentary apparition that only showed up because of Ven's presence.

So, you're saying that the Vanitas who appeared beside YX existed in the present? Nomura seemed to suggest that YX had brought Vanitas through time, since he used him as an example of old villains that pop up when YX is around. YX acted as a portal for Ansem SoD and Xemnas, the others who followed Sora and Riku through the realm of sleep.

It makes no sense to hijack a future 'Norts body to go back in time because you're supposed to leave it behind in order to do it. Vanitas has been without a body for around a decade, if he could time travel and take over YMX he would have done it already.

Vanitas didn't exist during YX's time. He could only possibly meet him if he hijacked Xehanort.

MX IS the "Seeker of Darkness". MX has been set up as the main bad guy way more deeply than his other counterparts have, I don't see the point in overriding this setup. Not to mention we already had a twist like this in KH1. All of a Sudden making Vanitas the main bad guy, who over powers and out smarts MX non the less, I find extremely unsatisfying.

The idea isn't that Vanitas overpowers or outsmarts Xehanort - it's that he is Xehanort. The Vanitas we see in BbS is like an infant. With many more years to search for his own purpose and learn, there's no telling what he might be capable of.

MX needs vessels. Within the KH universe constructing a body isn't all that difficult, one just needs the right resources. It's already been established that in KH3 there'll be a search for "The Key to Return Hearts" and that Sora has data that needs to be retrieved in order to help those who've "disappeared". Basically, a big part of KH3 is bringing fallen ones back and MX looking for more X-Blade fodder.

I still don't see why MX wouldn't simply use his own heart if he could somehow "construct" a body. That way, he wouldn't have to deal with healing Vanitas's heart or fully possessing it.

 

[billyzanesucks]

Ummm...If I might dissolve this a bit?

Can we do a head count on: 1) peeps with gold eyes + pointy ears, and 2) peeps with only gold eyes

You forgot 3) pointy ears only (Xaldin).

 

[ChibiHearts249]

Oh! Totally forgot about THAT @$$cracker! Sorry, Xaldin, honestly!

But does this mean that pointy ears are not simply a Xehanort trait? I mean, there are obviously others like him (with the ears), so do those ears not even matter? But I thought Nomura said they did...Is it just the eyes, then? Did Braig and Isa have rounded or pointy ears to begin with? I REALLY shoulda paid more attention to this before!

 

[Ruran]

So, you're saying that the Vanitas who appeared beside YX existed in the present? Nomura seemed to suggest that YX had brought Vanitas through time, since he used him as an example of old villains that pop up when YX is around. YX acted as a portal for Ansem SoD and Xemnas, the others who followed Sora and Riku through the realm of sleep.

When did I suggest this? I've been saying all this time that the apparition of Vanitas can be interpreted as an attempt to bring Vanitas forward in time (but failing).

Vanitas didn't exist during YX's time. He could only possibly meet him if he hijacked Xehanort.

I think you need to re-read the quote I was referring to:

And yes I know, that but I was saying that if Vanitas took over a future Xehanort, he could also end up going back in time and taking over Young Xehanort. Since he doesn't have a physical form, his travels through time wouldn't be impeded by a body.

Although re-reading it myself I think I misinterpreted what was being said. Regardless, I don't think time travel quite works this way. So to bring things back full circle: I don't think it works that way.

The idea isn't that Vanitas overpowers or outsmarts Xehanort - it's that he is Xehanort. The Vanitas we see in BbS is like an infant. With many more years to search for his own purpose and learn, there's no telling what he might be capable of.

Conceptually I admit that it sounds interesting (from what I understand of this), but unnecessary. And confusing.

I still don't see why MX wouldn't simply use his own heart if he could somehow "construct" a body. That way, he wouldn't have to deal with healing Vanitas's heart or fully possessing it.

So far the only person we've seen have the power to construct a body using their heart is Kairi, and that was under very specific circumstances. Not to mention, considering Vanitas's heart would've been really donked up, if he's anything like Ven he'd have to connect his heart to someone else's to heal, not just shoved into a new body. And as I mentioned it's KH3 that's dealing with trying to get all these characters new bodies, potentially Vanitas as well.