The Unpopular Opinions Thread

[AegisXIII]

I don't think we have a thread like this.
Here we shall be able to express any unpopular opinion related to the series.

Here I go:
- KH1 needs a remake
- Kairi's narrative arc is okay
- Gummi Ship is fun

 

[NoWay]

Kairi’s Melody of Memory arc is actually good and not that bad how the fandom it pretends to be.

VersusXIII in KH is such a great idea from Nomura.

Vanilla KH3’s story was also pretty decent, although the pacing and the lack of a midpoint were terrible.

I’m ready for the stones.

 

[Deleted member 246005]

I'd be ok with a new lead for Kingdom hearts because Sora lost appeal a long time ago. He's basically Ash Ketchum is he wandered into the Aizen Saga of BLEACH. It's not a good combination lol.

Sora would probably work better in a more episodic and standalone series like Sonic than a long-form story like the Xehanort saga was.

The series would be ok with less FF but it wouldnt really survive the loss of Disney.

V of DMC5 has his own problems but he feels like a better done version of Roxas. I like Roxas but he never felt like Sora and he's not the only one. Xion, Namine and Vanitas suffer from the same problem. V convinced me he was Vergil towards the end of his time.

Terra, Ven, Aqua are my favorite trio in KH because they feel like a trio of friends. Before them, the other trios felt like duos with a third wheel. Granted Aqua can fall into that but you remember her more than Kairi or Xion.

 

[AegisXIII]

Kairi’s Melody of Memory arc is actually good and not that bad how the fandom it pretends to be.

VersusXIII in KH is such a great idea from Nomura.

Vanilla KH3’s story was also pretty decent, although the pacing and the lack of a midpoint were terrible.

I’m ready for the stones.

Alright, I'll throw you the first stone.
KH3 writing is better than its predecessor per world. But the overall plot hardly makes any sense. The power of waking feels like a retcon. But not a retcon for the beginning of the series no: a retcon from the beginning of kh3 itself, which is terrible. We do not know why we need this power, we get it only to use it wrong and we still have no idea what it is and how it was supposed to be used in the first place. If we knew about it, we would feel the consequences of Sora misusing it.
So I heavily disagree with the plot being decent. It's a great teaser for KH4 but a terrible conclusion for Xehanort.

 

[bambii (aka foreteller)]

Ok, someone’s gonna bite my head off here:

358/2 Days should absolutely be experienced before KH2, even for someone new to the series. The only things it really “spoils” are Ansem SoD = Riku and Roxas = Sora’s Nobody, big whoop. These come as their own great moments in Days, regardless. Some say it spoils the mystery of who Roxas is, which is, um… still a mystery in Days anyway. These arguments could just as well be reversed by saying that KH2 spoils Days. The emotional impacts and payoffs in KH2 are absolutely worth these small inconveniences and make KH2 stand as a proper conclusion to a story arc that begins in Chain of Memories. I think there’s a 2005 nostalgia factor that plays into many peoples’ perspective that KH2 must come first. Also, the order of games in the 1.5 collection indicates that the devs agree with me

Basically I think rigid “release order is best order” is generally bullshit, and honestly the literal only reason I would advise against playing BBS before KH1 is Blank Points.

 

[AegisXIII]

Ok, someone’s gonna bite of head off here:

358/2 Days should absolutely be experienced before KH2, even for someone new to the series. The only things it really “spoils” are Ansem SoD = Riku and Roxas = Sora’s Nobody, big whoop. These come as their own great moments in Days, regardless. Some say it spoils the mystery of who Roxas is, which is, um… still a mystery in Days anyway. These arguments could just as well be reversed by saying that KH2 spoils Days. The emotional impacts and payoffs in KH2 are absolutely worth these small inconveniences and make KH2 stand as a proper conclusion to a story arc that begins in Chain of Memories. I think there’s a 2005 nostalgia factor that plays into many peoples’ perspective that KH2 must come first. Also, the order of games in the 1.5 collection indicates that the devs agree with me

Basically I think “release order is best order” is generally bullshit, and honestly the literal only reason I would advise against playing BBS before KH1 is Blank Points.

I always felt that days shall better be experienced before 2 as well because it makes no sense to get to know who the organization members are AFTER they have been erased. It's the same issue that I have with Dark Road that gives Xehanort motivations way too late for them to be enjoyable.
However, the problem with days is that it does a terrible job introducing organization members. If I were to compare with chain of memories, where you get to see one member at a time (never more than one per scene), days does a terrible job as you get all members at once and you have no motivation to learn their names. Then, in KH2, you get to know them one by one again. So on paper, I would agree with you, but with the way Days is designed, it's difficult.

 

[Ðari]

Introduce a top-down map to all the kingdom hearts games.
How the hell did we not have one in 2019 KH3's release. They need they ass whoop for that, tf.

 

[bambii (aka foreteller)]

I always felt that days shall better be experienced before 2 as well because it makes no sense to get to know who the organization members are AFTER they have been erased. It's the same issue that I have with Dark Road that gives Xehanort motivations way too late for them to be enjoyable.
However, the problem with days is that it does a terrible job introducing organization members. If I were to compare with chain of memories, where you get to see one member at a time (never more than one per scene), days does a terrible job as you get all members at once and you have no motivation to learn their names. Then, in KH2, you get to know them one by one again. So on paper, I would agree with you, but with the way Days is designed, it's difficult.

Yeah, that’s reasonable. In fairness though, I don’t think KH2 really does much of a better job than Days introducing us to the remaining Org members, except maybe with the exception of Xaldin (who has his own precursor arc in Days anyway). Demyx, Luxord, even Xigbar—they get so little screen time in KH2 that by the time you’ve beaten them, you still hardly know who they are. As for Saïx, Days does a great job with him.

Re: the Dark Road thing, I totally agree. I think the ideal placement for a first-time run would be Dark Road alongside KH3. Honestly I really believe Dark Road contains a lot of stuff Nomura probably had to cut from KH3—we can see relics of it in the KH3 chess scenes. Dark Road should absolutely be paired with KH3, it gives much more substance to the latter game’s climax and makes for a fascinating character study/juxtaposition between Sora and Xehanort before their final clash.

 

[Dandelion]

Alright, I'll throw you the first stone.
KH3 writing is better than its predecessor per world. But the overall plot hardly makes any sense. The power of waking feels like a retcon. But not a retcon for the beginning of the series no: a retcon from the beginning of kh3 itself, which is terrible. We do not know why we need this power, we get it only to use it wrong and we still have no idea what it is and how it was supposed to be used in the first place. If we knew about it, we would feel the consequences of Sora misusing it.
So I heavily disagree with the plot being decent. It's a great teaser for KH4 but a terrible conclusion for Xehanort.

Debating peoples' opinions doesn't really encourage them to post dissenting ones.

 

[AegisXIII]

Yeah, that’s reasonable. In fairness though, I don’t think KH2 really does much of a better job than Days introducing us to the remaining Org members, except maybe with the exception of Xaldin (who has his own precursor arc in Days anyway). Demyx, Luxord, even Xigbar—they get so little screen time in KH2 that by the time you’ve beaten them, you still hardly know who they are. As for Saïx, Days does a great job with him.

Re: the Dark Road thing, I totally agree. I think the ideal placement for a first-time run would be Dark Road alongside KH3. Honestly I really believe Dark Road contains a lot of stuff Nomura probably had to cut from KH3—we can see relics of it in the KH3 chess scenes. Dark Road should absolutely be paired with KH3, it gives much more substance to the latter game’s climax and makes for a fascinating character study/juxtaposition between Sora and Xehanort before their final clash.

Now that you mention it, you are right. KH2 doesn't introduce well other members. They simply are split into worlds which gives makes it easier to remember who is who though.
So yeah. Days before KH2!

Debating peoples' opinions doesn't really encourage them to post dissenting ones.

But if I don't do it, how am I supposed to start a new shipping war?
But more seriously, I see your point. This thread might degenerate quickly if we do reply too strongly.

@NoWay I am sorry if my post felt too harsh. I really wanted to hear more about the part you felt were great actually.

 

[BufferAqua]

Terra is gullible because he's been sheltered all his life.

SDG is best trio.

I prefer KH1's world design over 2's.

 

[Perkilator]

I think a game focused on Kairi and Aqua on non-phone consoles should’ve come before Missing Link because Kairi’s arc of realizing she’s an inexperienced Keyblade wielder and going to Aqua for proper training is one that has too much potential to just toss to the side.

And hey, on the topic of Kairi’s arc not being as bad as people say it is:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1607773678107762689

 

[vaderskywalker]

The series would be ok with less FF but it wouldnt really survive the loss of Disney.

I agree.

 

[MATGSY]

I don't think we have a thread like this.
Here we shall be able to express any unpopular opinion related to the series.

Here I go:
- Kairi's narrative arc is okay

Kairi’s Melody of Memory arc is actually good and not that bad how the fandom it pretends to be.

I think a game focused on Kairi and Aqua on non-phone consoles should’ve come before Missing Link because Kairi’s arc of realizing she’s an inexperienced Keyblade wielder and going to Aqua for proper training is one that has too much potential to just toss to the side.

And hey, on the topic of Kairi’s arc not being as bad as people say it is:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1607773678107762689

The problem with Kairi is how absolutely little a benefit of a doubt Nomura's has earned with her. The whole damn series has taken every opportunity to avoid putting the spotlight on her. It's been 17 years since she got a keyblde and she still hasn't gotten whatever arc up and running yet!

The excuses are increasingly ludicrous too. Sora never needed any damn training so why does Kairi? She was in a pocket dimension where she take as long as she wanted to train and no time passes and yet it still took the majority of KH3? And BULLSHIT on that "monster in a dream" excuse. Kairi was 100% lucid and again I can play the not-a-problem-for-Sora card with DDD never doing anything like that.

All it is are excuses to keep Kairi out of the plot, no reason to believe otherwise.

 

[Liodin]

There are many different reasons why I recommend this order, and I invite anyone to think about what those are.

1 > 2 > CoM > Days > ...

The same with the BBS order.

Terra > Aqua > Ven

Kairi is a well-developed character with huge potential, who you may not like, but that doesn't mean she's poorly written.

 

[vaderskywalker]

The excuses are increasingly ludicrous too. Sora never needed any damn training so why does Kairi? She was in a pocket dimension where she take as long as she wanted to train and no time passes and yet it still took the majority of KH3? And BULLSHIT on that "monster in a dream" excuse. Kairi was 100% lucid and again I can play the not-a-problem-for-Sora card with DD never doing anything like that.

The thing with Sora, and by extension Riku, is that they grew up playing with toy swords, and it's implied Kairi didn't, so yes, she needed the training compared to Sora and Riku.

 

[Sonofjafar]

Organization 13’s non-Sora and Non-Nort members are used too much in theories relating to the lore.

Also as long as I’m here, Soriku is overrated. Has been since KH2.

 

[palizinhas]

The longer KH goes on, the more Riku loses the characteristics that made him interesting. And that's not only personality-wise but powerset-wise too - KH2 stripped Riku of Dark Mode and Dark Corridors, now even his Keyblade lost the Soul Eater design.

 

[BufferAqua]

Not exactly an unpopular opinion but seems to be a debated one; KH's poor treatment of female characters is clearly a result of typical misogynistic shonen tropes and it still seems to persist a bit to this day.

 

[vaderskywalker]

misogynistic shonen tropes

Yeah, what does that mean.