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The super natural ( Evidence , speculation provided )



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dr.korytco

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Is there any one here who has a interest in the super natural? I've always found evidence in quantum theory. Though many will scoff, there are quite a few noble prize winners , PHDS who study the super natural scientifically. Lately in the past few years, we've seen a lot more paranormal shows on the television. This is important, because they air on channels like Discovery . I'm going to be mostly referring to spirits, but all things are of the same true nature, in my opinion.

I DO believe that a rational argument can be made, and a rational explanation can be given to every haunting. But I don't discount hauntings. As a matter of fact, I believe both realities can exist simultaneously . Logical universe and pseudo universe.

"Brian Josephson attended Cardiff High School and then Cambridge University, where he gained a BA in 1960.[1] Whilst an undergraduate, he became notorious as a brilliant and self-assured student.[2] A former lecturer remembers the importance of being particularly precise if addressing a class that included Josephson; if a mistake was made, Josephson would not be afraid to politely point it out after the lecture.[2] As an undergraduate he published a paper in which he calculated a thermal correction to the Mössbauer effect that reconciled previously different measurements of gravitational red shifts reported by teams in the US and UK.[5] After completing his undergraduate degree he continued to study at Cambridge, and in 1964 was awarded his PhD in physics.[1] In the 1970s he learned Transcendental Meditation.[6]"

"Josephson effect

Josephson is best known for his pioneering theoretical work on superconductivity, earning him a 1/2 share of the 1973 Nobel Prize for Physics.[5] Specifically, it was awarded for "his theoretical predictions of the properties of a supercurrent through a tunnel barrier, in particular those phenomena which are generally known as the Josephson effects",[8] which led to the invention of the Josephson junction. These junctions are key components in devices used to make highly sensitive measurements in magnetic fields.[5] Further use for his discoveries was realised by researchers at IBM who, by 1980, had assembled an experimental computer switch structure, which would permit switching speeds from 10 to 100 times faster than those possible with conventional silicon-based chips, vastly increasing data processing capabilities.[2]
Mind–Matter Unification Project

Josephson directed the Mind–Matter Unification Project, which he describes as: "a project concerned primarily with the attempt to understand, from the viewpoint of the theoretical physicist, what may loosely be characterised as intelligent processes in nature, associated with brain function or with some other natural process".[12] More generally, the research involves how the brain works, investigating topics such as language and consciousness, and pondering the fundamental connections between music and the mind.[5] It is based on the belief that quantum mechanics is not the ultimate theory of nature.[5] He maintains that "Quantum theory is not a complete picture of nature even though it is correct in its own domain".[13] He believes ideas such as complementarity in physics may also apply to biology.[13]

Despite his retirement Josephson continues to be active within the Mind-Matter Unification project.[12] Among his aims is to find mechanisms behind phenomena such as the possibility that organisms can learn to bias the statistics of supposedly random physical processes through having a better understanding of its patterns than non-living matter.[5]
Parapsychology

Josephson is one of the more well-known scientists who say that parapsychological phenomena may be real, and is also interested in the possibility that Eastern mysticism may have relevance to scientific understanding.[12] He has said that one of his guiding principles has been nullius in verba (take nobody's word, the motto of the Royal Society), saying that "if scientists as a whole denounce an idea, this should not necessarily be taken as proof that the said idea is absurd; rather, one should examine carefully the alleged grounds for such opinions and judge how well these stand up to detailed scrutiny."[5][12]

In 2001 Josephson's views on the paranormal were under the spotlight when he wrote about them in a booklet to accompany six special stamps to honour the 100th anniversary of the Nobel prize.[14] The Royal Mail had sent Josephson a request to write a small article about their award and the implication of research in their field they could use in conjunction with the special Nobel Centenary stamp issue.[14] He wrote the following:

"Physicists attempt to reduce the complexity of nature to a single unifying theory, of which the most successful and universal, the quantum theory, has been associated with several Nobel prizes, for example those to Dirac and Heisenberg. Max Planck's original attempts a hundred years ago to explain the precise amount of energy radiated by hot bodies began a process of capturing in mathematical form a mysterious, elusive world containing 'spooky interactions at a distance', real enough however to lead to inventions such as the laser and transistor. Quantum theory is now being fruitfully combined with theories of information and computation. These developments may lead to an explanation of processes still not understood within conventional science such as telepathy, an area where Britain is at the forefront of research."[12]

He came under criticism from several fellow physicists including David Deutsch, a quantum physicist at Oxford University who stated: "It is utter rubbish. Telepathy simply does not exist. The Royal Mail has let itself be hoodwinked into supporting ideas that are complete nonsense".[14] However, Josephson maintains "There is a lot of evidence to support the existence of telepathy, for example, but papers on the subject are being rejected – quite unfairly".[14]

In 2005, Josephson said that "parapsychology should now have become a conventional field of research, and yet parapsychology's claims are still not generally accepted". He compared this situation to that of Alfred Wegener's hypothesis of continental drift, where he believed there was initially great resistance to acceptance despite the strength of the evidence.[15] Only after Wegener's death did further evidence lead to a gradual change of opinion and ultimate acceptance of his ideas.[15] Josephson said that many scientists are not yet swayed by the evidence for parapsychology and the paranormal. Josephson contends that some scientists feel uncomfortable about ideas such as telepathy and that their emotions sometimes get in the way.[15]
Awards and medals"

Nassim Haramein - Sacred Geometry & Unified Fields - YouTube
The above video is consciousness in flat lined brain activity.

In my opinion, to really get into this you have to stretch your mind within holographic theories of the universe. You have to at least study a little bit of the unification theory.

Cosmic Consciousness and The Holographic Universe ...Ervin Laszlo - YouTube

Another physicist. ^

But to really see how unification theory relates to consciousness, metaphysics is obvious. But not if you don't study geometry first . Daniel Winter and Nassim Haramein make this easy because they understood the work of Einstein and unified field theory and how it relates to geometry and how it's fractal.
Dan Winter
Dan Winter Fractal Geometry The Golden Mean Red Ice Interview May 10th 2009 Part 1 of 6 - YouTube

Nassim Haramein
Nassim Haramein - Sacred Geometry & Unified Fields - YouTube

As a matter of fact , it's called the holo fractal universe unification theory I think...

Once you truly understand consciousness / the physical universe applying unification theory and geometry you begin to see how consciousness can alter water itself. And how even thoughts can alter DNA.

Water, Consciousness & Intent: Dr. Masaru Emoto - YouTube

The Power of Thought: #7 Water - YouTube

I will provide a link how that shows how thoughts can alter DNA, Russian Research has come across this.
Russian DNA Discoveries Explain Human 'Paranormal' Events

To further our understanding , I will show a PHD and physicist speak about the influence of thought upon matter.
Mr. Manifestation - Pt.1 Thoughts Move Matter: So, What Are YOU Thinking? - YouTube

To make that all more straight forward the one who asks bigger questions , it will in my opinion, be unavoidable that they know a thing or two about "observation". And observation well, is actually much more complicated than simply observation.

Some one would naturally there for study double slit experiment . Or simply study how observation, and the observer has a crucial part to the "resonance" of reality itself. I can show a few examples .
Double Slit (doctor alan wolf aka doctor quantum )
The Observer in Physics Double Slit Experiment and Example in Nature - YouTube

But if you have any imagination at all let me save you alot of trouble. Watch these 3 videos and you'll learn a lot about the atom and the observer.
PHD , physicist ...
Dr. Fred Alan Wolf and Quantum Spirituality - P1/3 - YouTube

Ok, so the evidence , argument for quantum consciousness is there. But how does this relate to spirits, ghosts? Well to appreciate the connection there we have to dive further in .

What I have researched and would try to explain to you is that everything is simply information. The only difference in anything is it's wave length. Consciousness has been shown to survive outside the body, remotely .

It's hard to make the connection. But if you're imaginative you might already be putting a theory together.
I would relate this to the holographic unification theory again. I think this is actually about quantum entanglement.
Michael Talbot: Synchronicity and the Holographic Universe -- Thinking Allowed w/ Jeffrey Mishlove - YouTube

^
Ok , ok. Work with me. This actually suggests that time itself is a illusion. All of this put together. Time is a illusion.

Relative dimensions of time and space.

"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." - Albert Einstein

There is no evidence on the subatomic level that we are even separated , there is no evidence that you and I aren't the same MIND on a quantum level.

"A human being is part of the whole called by us universe , a part limited in time and space. We experience ourselves, our thoughts and feelings as something separate from the rest. A kind of optical delusion of consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from the prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty...We shall require a substantially new manner of thinking if mankind is to survive." - Albert Einstein

I personally think people misinterpret this quote all the time. Because Einstein's work on time suggests this could very likely have been intended to be take literally. Most people think it's just to imply that we are nicer to each other. I think it's a scientific theory. I believe it's what we refer to as quantum entanglement. Things seemingly separate in space are not truly separate.

Ok, so what's that mean about the physical reality ? Well, that's complicated. Isn't math a true language ? Yes , it is but , geometry is the simplest language and is often used to understand. And even math isn't a TRUE TRUE language. It's merely the process how we quantify , measure reality.

"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." - Albert Einstein

"I don't believe in mathematics." - Albert Einstein

"We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many different languages. The child knows someone must have written those books . It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see a universe marvelously arranges and obeying certain laws, but only dimly understand these laws. Our limited minds cannot grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations." - Albert Einstein

As for the physical specifically? We have to see time as dimension, in my opinion, and the physical as dimension.
Dimensions , oh boy the study of dimensions. I would look to string theory . And a orchestra of strings vibrating in a certain way , organized by higher dimensions. But that there is no true division of dimension an no true separation.

To cut to the chase and use a little imagination ...
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." Albert Einstein

So, this should be a interesting place to start. I have taken time and care to provide evidence, theory. So please don't take this some place totally unstructured. I feel I've been fair in providing a fair amount of research and scientific theory. Though, I have studied this and see how it's possible ghosts may exist. I'd have to ask people to use a little imagination and perhaps do some of their own research.

Wave or particle, it's both. Which I think if I remember right is a major break through in science today. It's both a wave and a particle.


I have had lots of super natural experiences but I want to kind of get a feel for where this thread can go.
 
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Wehrmacht

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"supernatural" is a bit of an oxymoron. If it exists in our world, it's natural.
 

dr.korytco

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"supernatural" is a bit of an oxymoron. If it exists in our world, it's natural.

Doesn't change the fact, that when I say super natural people will know what it is that I'm referring to. With some imagination, using that logic, words have no true purpose. Everything would just run together, historically and socially. It was dubbed super natural, because it's a social term that is evolving from a science that has historically rejected it as natural . I've seen a major turn of events, that has been going on for decades. There are many terms , and respected theories in the sources I have provided, that we would consider more "natural".

The reason , significance, for this is likely because we couldn't naturally explain these things without making the world a lot more complicated. And in my opinion it took a little longer to really challenge our laws and what we thought we knew as scientists.
 
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As a student of science, i must object to all the oversimplifications and ignorance present. A lot of seemingly esoteric and obscure science and mathematics is used by the gullible believers of new-age and spiritual bla bla. Quantum theory, fractals and whatnot seem a nice way to base your feeble "hypotheses" on, but have absolutely nothing to do with them. They work, because the general population has absolute zero understanding of these topics and, more often then not, the believers themselves too. Foregoing the actual level of knowledge most have on these topics, the fact that the field of science consists of models, approximations to reality, is simply ignored by those believers. These models are of themselves lacking, and new models are present to replace the current

Talking about things that are so highly unscientific and infalsifiable is quite unusual for physicists and other scientists alike. It gives me reason to believe that statements have been taken out of context, or selective quotation is applied. they did this in that crappy supernatural movie what the bleep do we know. All in all, it's the same BS i've seen being presented countless other times.
 

dr.korytco

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Are you always such a bully. Intimidate people, be little them and put yourself on a pedastal.
A heck of a ignorant and close minded way to argue. A heck of a closed minded and judemental way to think too. I'm sorry I have to respond to it and get closer down around that level of sophisciation . You could learn a few things from some one like Einstein
"We know nothing at all. All our knowledge is but the knowledge of schoolchildren. The real nature of things we shall never know." - Albert Einstein

People like you, apparently, just want to insult others with an imagination and put science and math on a pedestal as if it's some uniformed thing. It wouldn't be called damn research if we knew what we were doing entirely !

Science hasn't been as uniformed for decades. You probably don't truly understand What The Bleep Do We Know. I'd wager that most of what is discussed is way over your head or hasn't been taught to you in college .
Dean Radin, Ph.D on Quantum Physics 1 of 3 - YouTube
Watch this video, he gives HIS opinion on college, education. And he's a damned PHD. What are you ? And in your ignorance you call him a liar? He makes a living off research and is a successful scientist . It's nothing but shrewd ignorance on your part, whom is just another run of the mill college student with a big mouth. People like HIM TEACH you the BASICS ...
He says most college professors believe in the super natural on some level.


Who the hell do you think you are ? Are you a PHD ? Or you a world renouned expert ? Give me a break...

As a college student, blah blah. More intimidation and pretentious dribble. There are plenty of scientists in this world. The smartests ones seem to be humble.

And as far as education and physics go well PHD.s which, my friend you're not... have to say that education is crock and lacks any true imagination. You are conditioned in your limited college education. It doesn't impress me, and I'm being polite after you take your shrewed argument approach .

You're just another individual of trillions on the planet, lecturing people about science, as if you're a expert. I am sharing the links, and opinions of PH.DS Until you establish yourself or have people actually respect your opinions by the millions like Dean Radin, Ph.D on Quantum Physics , maybe you should keep your ignorant and offensive arugments to yourself.

Dean Radin, Ph.D on Quantum Physics 1 of 3 - YouTube

I highly doubt you've spent a day in your life thinking about super natural science. And you just come across as a bully without any tact.

And you really don't have my faith that you have all the answers. Intreprations. Calling PHDs liars, which are by the 1000s on the super natural is ignorant and childish They clearly have more imagination than you and are cleary more open minded.

Disagreeing with me would be one thing but you lack any tack and your bully approach is unaccepable in any intelligent conversation. Just because you don't believe in that doesn't mean it's not real. These are PHDS staking their reputations on these things , and they are going in detail how they work. They don't make lots of money just pretending. They get funding for their research and are on the edge. You're just another 1 in a billion college students that doesn't have the maturity to show others respect . You're another college student on his high horse.

There's alot more to life than education, you're not going to learn it all in a class room...


If I had to size you up, I'd say you're pretentious, like to argue and so you chose science for a career so that you could be a expert and lecture to the world you know everything.


Lots of these people don't even say they're right, it's theoretical. Yet your shrewd argumentive style has been enveloped here. I find metaphysics interesting, I don't find your ignorance interesting at all.

Until you actually have a real reputation or a PHD don't waste my time. Because your opinion would be as good as any one else's . But guess what , you are pretentious and lecture me that these PHDS don't know what they are talking about. Which is rather arrogant to say the least...


I won't waste any more time on you, but you've earned this one. (Please spare me from anymore ego eccentricisms, this is science. And these are PHDS ...get your head out of your rear ... You have no right to call them liars. It's just ignorant .)

You don't even know the half of the "pratical" sciences beyond closed doors in research / tech labs. Don't try to waste my time anymore. Don't bother. Like you're an expert , get back to me when you've atleast graudated...

The public respects the opinions of the experienced and discliplined. The public repsects the opinions of the experts. Why should I even take you seriously? You really think you have the right to call PHDS liars, because what they are talking about is beyond your level of reputation and status ? They have a right to form their opinions and stake their reputations on them. A hell of a lot more than I can say for some one who's greatest peer is a professor who teaches a college class basic courses of science and math.

What do you expect to be an expert already? Expect to challenge PHDS by calling them all liars and then attacking people like me? Get off it man, get wayyyyy wayyy of it. You haven't lived a day in my shoes, and there's lots of things you don't know about the universe I assure you. You're not all knowing. Shit, you're barely beyond puberty yet. These are old, harden physicists , with life long reputations at stake and I think their opinions are a little more developed than yours.

But, wait, you went to college, and took basic science and math courses, so now you can make shrewd internet posts and be pretentious and tell me they are liars and you know everything. Wow, what an imagination, intelligence you must have.

Here's an idea, stop taking credit for science as a whole. You didn't invent it, it's been around a long time. Stop taking so much credit for something that you haven't even earned a degree in yet. Stop challenging the opinions of esteemed PHDS and taking credit for science and representing yourself as an expert and as if you're the all knowing scientist. They teach people like you know to put your pants on around your ankles.

White you're off taking all the credit, trying to discount their findings in your evidence, they are making real scientific break throughs and challenging theories. So , stop taking all the credit. You don't deserve any of it. If they are proven wrong, fine. But sure the hell it aint going to be to your credit and closed mind and limited imagination.

You deserve asbolutely no credit in disproving their findings , even in proving them. You're just learning what some one else already figured out. If they taught you telekensis in college you'd believe it because that' s how some one like you functions...

What we have here is a sense of some one with too much pride, who wants to belong to something like science and so he becomes pretentious and cocky and arrogant .
 

Victor

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dude a phd doesn't mean you're a fucking genius
my english teacher in 11th grade had a phd and she was pretty stupid

using evidence for findings is something that is good, saying "oh it could exist because we dont know it doesn't" is a horrible way of thinking and your garbage rant was nothing more than that, a garbage rant that
you say that mr. triangle over here doesn't know anything because he took college level math/science (even though I'm fairly certain he has gone beyond that) then you exalt some fucking person because he has a phd.

your logic is so faulty i am literally laughing at it, right now
 

dr.korytco

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dude a phd doesn't mean you're a diddlying genius
my english teacher in 11th grade had a phd and she was pretty stupid

using evidence for findings is something that is good, saying "oh it could exist because we dont know it doesn't" is a horrible way of thinking and your garbage rant was nothing more than that, a garbage rant that
you say that mr. triangle over here doesn't know anything because he took college level math/science (even though I'm fairly certain he has gone beyond that) then you exalt some diddlying person because he has a phd.

your logic is so faulty i am literally laughing at it, right now

My logic is faulty , but you can't even handle keeping in line with your own! Having a PHD is earned with a education and no doubt generally means some one goes beyond college if they get a PHD.

Laughing at my own logic and in the same paragraph you can't even comprehend your own logic.

Some one with a PHD clearly has more college education than some one who doesn't .
I'd listen to a scientist with a PHD generally before I did some one who had a lot less experience, education.

You don't even comprehend your own logic.

"oh it could exist because we dont know it doesn't"

I never said that any where. Quote me saying it? Can't ? No, you can't because your POST is garbage.

A. You contradict yourself and call my posts trash ignorantly . Then you insult your professor, which I don't know what she has to do with this...

B. You're making shit up that doesn't exist in this thread.

Your post has no function, and it's Garbage. So look where you point fingers, or better yet stop sticking it up your rear end.
 

Silh

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this thread is now about supernatural the tv show
 

dr.korytco

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This thread is a mess. And I'm not being nice to any one. Maybe it's best it's deleted and maybe I should get a warning for being hostile to other members. I got to do home work for my seminar class. Later.
 

Victor

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Your post has no function, and it's Garbage. So look where you point fingers, or better yet stop sticking it up your rear end.
A heck of a closed minded and judemental way to think too. I'm sorry I have to respond to it and get closer down around that level of sophisciation . You could learn a few things from some one like Einstein
"We know nothing at all. All our knowledge is but the knowledge of schoolchildren. The real nature of things we shall never know." - Albert Einstein
maybe you should think of the implications of your posts lol

A. You contradict yourself and call my posts trash ignorantly . Then you insult your professor, which I don't know what she has to do with this...
the idea is that you are revering people with a phd as if they are some god like genius when in reality it doesn't mean anything

i never contradicted myself, kthx
 

Nyangoro

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The supernatural, in general, it a terrible concept to try to "prove."

The idea of "super" implies that it exists beyond the natural (in some shape or form).

And in order for us to discover proof of it, something "supernatural" would have to be able to enter the "natural" world.

And once it's entered, and you find it, you have to prove that it also exists beyond the "natural" world.

And considering that all of our analytic ability is based in the "natural" world, trying to properly analyze anything "supernatural" is doomed to failure.

See where I'm going with this? Regardless of whether or not a "supernatural" exists, we are fundamentally incapable of detecting it. It's a wild goose chase.
 

dr.korytco

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Arguments are subjective. I for the most part don't want to try to insult people or fight with them. I should be beyond that at my age. The lack of mental maturity in this thread is atrocious.
Einstein quotes are subjective, ask you or me. We both took it differently. Yet, we both think we're right or that we know what it means. I think Einstein is simply being humble there and suggesting that we must keep an open mind .

Which of course people laughing at the super natural might insult me , because I've taken it that way. And my personal bias make me think the same way.

Again you're forcing yourself on me , no one said a PHD is a god like genius. If anything words can some times be taken literally. I said that they are more educated and their more tailored in science than some one who just disagrees that any such science exists.

There have been countless debates, arguments on the paranormal.

I don't want to fight anymore. This thread is ridiculous now. Maybe my rant is garbage. I think I need to find a healthy place to vent my frustrations, honestly.

Nevermind , I don't care. You hate me because I come across ignorant and foolish to you. Personally , I don't care right now. This thread is out of control.

And, I apologize for any personal attacks I've made and I admit that I see myself as having acted immature and having said inappropriate things.

The supernatural, in general, it a terrible concept to try to "prove."

The idea of "super" implies that it exists beyond the natural (in some shape or form).

And in order for us to discover proof of it, something "supernatural" would have to be able to enter the "natural" world.

And once it's entered, and you find it, you have to prove that it also exists beyond the "natural" world.

And considering that all of our analytic ability is based in the "natural" world, trying to properly analyze anything "supernatural" is doomed to failure.

See where I'm going with this? Regardless of whether or not a "supernatural" exists, we are fundamentally incapable of detecting it. It's a wild goose chase.

LOL, I don't know what my problem is. I feel like arguing with every one. I think I'm very unbalanced today.

I quoted you so you'd know who I was responding to.

Thanks for making a level headed post in spite of this thread having become a disaster. I suppose I still have anger issues.
 

Silh

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This thread is a mess. And I'm not being nice to any one. Maybe it's best it's deleted and maybe I should get a warning for being hostile to other members. I got to do home work for my seminar class. Later.
if it upsets you that much we can always talk about the anime adaptation instead
 

inasuma

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I always kind of chuckle when I see people with PHDs in subjects like "religion," "christian studies," "spiritual teaching," "trinity studies," or "supernatural studies."

Yeah, you know a lot about something that no one can actually prove. I agree with Nyangoro; something must enter the realm of the natural to be interpreted as supernatural. Then we must find a way to prove it is supernatural outside of the realm of the natural, or that it even exists beyond. It's hard to conduct a case study on something that is intangible.

Although I will concede that if someone claims to have experienced something supernatural, that's fine. People can claim that all day. But witness testimonies are still at the bottom of the evidence chain as far as I'm concerned.
 

dr.korytco

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Oh my god this thread is fucking retarded.

Yes, it was deserving of your witty, intelligent thoughts...

And some how it was deserving of your insult. Then again you have a middle finger for a avatar. I don't think you would appreciate much what is deserved or tactful.

But, yes, your comment was very deserved and very smart, witty...It made matters so much better.

Want a ice cream cone?
 

Eric

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Yes, it was deserving of your witty, intelligent thoughts...

And some how it was deserving of your insult. Then again you have a middle finger for a avatar. I don't think you would appreciate much what is deserved or tactful.

But, yes, your comment was very deserved and very smart, witty...It made matters so much better.

Want a ice cream cone?

You're starting to derail your own thread with these comments.
 
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Yes, it was deserving of your witty, intelligent thoughts...

And some how it was deserving of your insult. Then again you have a middle finger for a avatar. I don't think you would appreciate much what is deserved or tactful.

But, yes, your comment was very deserved and very smart, witty...It made matters so much better.

Want a ice cream cone?

Oh, you just know this motherfucker walks around wearing a fedora in real life
 
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