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The Soul! in general...



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Where does the soul go?

  • Realm of Light

    Votes: 3 15.8%
  • Realm Inbetween

    Votes: 4 21.1%
  • Realm of Darkness

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Realm of Nothingnes

    Votes: 2 10.5%
  • Neither of them

    Votes: 10 52.6%

  • Total voters
    19
  • Poll closed .
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Muse

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Well... im trying to narrow down the possibilities.

The soul is neutral. One can be persuaded to go to one side not the other.
What you do imprints your soul and which determines what realm your soul goes.
The soul is infused with darkness
The soul is consumed by darkness

Hopefully I'll found more these are from the top of my head.:x

Hai! You stole that from meh! D<

Just kidding.

:x We really need more hints about what all the soul does other than keep you alive.
 

keybladelegacy

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Hai! You stole that from meh! D<

Just kidding.

:x We really need more hints about what all the soul does other than keep you alive.

Ya i got it from you,Lifes.Lover,and Naryx15.

And ya but its only been about a couple hour for this thread so hopefully somemore people will contribute.
I wish their was more info but oh well...:(
 

Ikkin

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Hearts don't naturally go to Kingdom Hearts, I don't think. o.o

No one really knows what they naturally do, except that when there's a " Kingdom Hearts of people's hearts" around, they'll migrate to it, and if there isn't, they'll either go back to their own body or go into stasis if their body is a Nobody.

However, the real Kingdom Hearts seems to have something to do with the way everyone's hearts are integrated, so it'd kind of make sense that the rest of the heart would wind up there if the body is dead.


And he's talking about if someway or another, the soul is extracted from the body, then the person dies. :x And the soul would be the one to go to an afterlife, wouldn't it? Considering it's the very reason you are alive in KH?

I'd think that the more important thing would be the heart, since it holds the personality. The heart can apparently exist and function as the same person without a soul anyway, considering Sora's ability to coexist with Roxas.

All we know about the soul in KH is that a body can't live without it. For all we know, it might as well be a battery. =P


Soul/Spirit = Same thing or same concept. =/

They're not exactly the same, though I appear to have been confused by the manner in which they differ. >_>; In any case, though, in KH the heart takes on most of the important aspects of either.


I'll like to hear it.

A good character using it sincerely to comfort someone who's dying isn't enough? It's not like it's ever suggested that Riku's wrong about it.


It was created by Vexen so how does it have a heart....Hmmmm...

It has an artificial heart, which is why it was asking Riku what would happen to it. =P


Im not big on what Kingdom Hearts is. But the one in Kingdom Hearts 1 was the (hearts of worlds). In KH 2 the (heart of men) anyway i doubt the heart goes somewhere.

If they didn't want to suggest it went somewhere, why bring it up?

As for Kingdom Hearts:

I - Until now in the Kingdom Hearts (hereafter KH) Series, there have been 2 types of “Kingdom Hearts” referring to the Heart of Worlds and the Heart of Men, could you explain the mechanics of this?

Think of the basic setting of KH as “All life has a heart.” The heart of a world can be considered the things of nature, for example, the trees in a forest, a sea or river, a flower and so forth, when they all come together to form a world a large heart will come into existence. And concerning the hearts designated to men, all the hearts of humans and animals living in the world are integrated. As for Kingdom Hearts, think of it as if the heart is essentially the culmination of an invisible “Proof of Life.”


This part - "all the hearts of humans and animals living in the world are integrated" - doesn't seem to be referring to the "Kingdom Hearts of people's hearts" so much as the natural state of things. And, if they're all integrated, it'd make sense that they'd want to come together if the body's no longer around. (Then again, I'm not really sure whether the implication is that they're integrated into Kingdom Hearts, or into the heart of their own particular world, though the former would certainly be better for Sora, having so many friends, and the Riku Replica, not really belonging to any world XD; )


This really depends on your opinion does it not...:)

That's true. I tend to just pull implications from the Secret Ansem Reports, really. Though I'm pretty sure I messed up on the real-life terminology completely. >_>;
 

keybladelegacy

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Oh my word. Isnt it bad enough that i read at a 3rd grade level and now you typed all this up. Phew.

No one really knows what they naturally do, except that when there's a " Kingdom Hearts of people's hearts" around, they'll migrate to it, and if there isn't, they'll either go back to their own body or go into stasis if their body is a Nobody.

Okay...

However, the real Kingdom Hearts seems to have something to do with the way everyone's hearts are integrated, so it'd kind of make sense that the rest of the heart would wind up there if the body is dead.

How would you explain this in bbs.

I'd think that the more important thing would be the heart, since it holds the personality. The heart can apparently exist and function as the same person without a soul anyway, considering Sora's ability to coexist with Roxas.

The heart holds the personality hmmm... I would think the soul would have the personally.
All we know about the soul in KH is that a body can't live without it. For all we know, it might as well be a battery. =P

Nice metaphor...:)


They're not exactly the same, though I appear to have been confused by the manner in which they differ. >_>; In any case, though, in KH the heart takes on most of the important aspects of either.

okay... but we mostly referr the spirit to the soul.


A good character using it sincerely to comfort someone who's dying isn't enough? It's not like it's ever suggested that Riku's wrong about it.

Huh?


It has an artificial heart, which is why it was asking Riku what would happen to it. =P

I understand...


If they didn't want to suggest it went somewhere, why bring it up?

Leaving us in the dark...

As for Kingdom Hearts:

I - Until now in the Kingdom Hearts (hereafter KH) Series, there have been 2 types of “Kingdom Hearts” referring to the Heart of Worlds and the Heart of Men, could you explain the mechanics of this?

Think of the basic setting of KH as “All life has a heart.” The heart of a world can be considered the things of nature, for example, the trees in a forest, a sea or river, a flower and so forth, when they all come together to form a world a large heart will come into existence. And concerning the hearts designated to men, all the hearts of humans and animals living in the world are integrated. As for Kingdom Hearts, think of it as if the heart is essentially the culmination of an invisible “Proof of Life.”


This part - "all the hearts of humans and animals living in the world are integrated" - doesn't seem to be referring to the "Kingdom Hearts of people's hearts" so much as the natural state of things. And, if they're all integrated, it'd make sense that they'd want to come together if the body's no longer around. (Then again, I'm not really sure whether the implication is that they're integrated into Kingdom Hearts, or into the heart of their own particular world, though the former would certainly be better for Sora, having so many friends, and the Riku Replica, not really belonging to any world XD; )

I think im with you...



That's true. I tend to just pull implications from the Secret Ansem Reports, really. Though I'm pretty sure I messed up on the real-life terminology completely. >_>;

I'll finish commenting on this later today...
 

SilverJ-17

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...



Person - Soul = Death..

[/thread]

The soul can't live on it's own. Sure, there's a chance that maybe darkness corrupts a soul to the point of where it becomes something else, after the person dies or even allows it to seperate, but I doubt it. Personally, I think that once someone's soul leaves their body (Yes, I'm meaning KH here..), they die, just like in IRL.. no exceptions.. no Unbirths.. I personally think that Unbirths are actually corrupted (whole) beings, who were warped by the darkness, into the various forms we've seen so far and more. Basically, my theory is that they were people that were overcome by the darkness and changed into a darkness-based being, whether they were too evil or just plain too weak of heart, whilst having too much darkness in their.. Hmm.. darkness in your soul does actually seem to hold some possibility though, since there is the phrase "Darkness in your soul.."

Edit: keybladelegacy... stop double posting..

Also.. I think that wherever the soul goes probably varies, though.. the heart seems a lot of like a soul to (I'm alluding to this because of how it holds the memories or whatever..) and it always goes back to the realm of darkness wince it came or whatever.
 

keybladelegacy

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...



Person - Soul = Death..

[/thread]

Im not done with this thread yet so hold on...But i guess thats up too the mods

The soul can't live on it's own. Sure, there's a chance that maybe darkness corrupts a soul to the point of where it becomes something else, after the person dies or even allows it to seperate, but I doubt it.

You doubt it but i agree with it

Personally, I think that once someone's soul leaves their body (Yes, I'm meaning KH here..), they die, just like in IRL.. no exceptions.. no Unbirths..

Short and too the point.

I personally think that Unbirths are actually corrupted (whole) beings, who were warped by the darkness, into the various forms we've seen so far and more.

Wouldnt it be possible that they would become heartless. Even so how do they get corrupted.

Basically, my theory is that they were people that were overcome by the darkness and changed into a darkness-based being, whether they were too evil or just plain too weak of heart, whilst having too much darkness in their.. Hmm.. darkness in your soul does actually seem to hold some possibility though, since there is the phrase "Darkness in your soul.."

Weak heart lets me believe they would be vulnerable to darkness being consumed by it creating a heartless but their are no heartless in bbs. Last how would the unbirths die out.

Edit: keybladelegacy... stop double posting..

Ok sometimes i forget.... But im almost done for the night.

Also.. I think that wherever the soul goes probably varies, though.. the heart seems a lot of like a soul to (I'm alluding to this because of how it holds the memories or whatever..) and it always goes back to the realm of darkness wince it came or whatever.

Okay..... i'll try to figure out the relation. Between the two.
 

Ikkin

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How would you explain this in bbs.

I'm pretty sure the question of "where does a person's heart go when they die" isn't really going to be dealt with in the series at all, because it'd cause more problems than it's worth.

Whether or not the "Heart of Worlds" Kingdom Hearts gets explained depends on whether there's a character in the position to study it, so it might remain as something that's only explained in interviews, too.


The heart holds the personality hmmm... I would think the soul would have the personally.

Normally, that's the case - but, Sora and Riku both had an "existence of only the heart" at certain points due to the loss of their body and soul, and both kept their personalities.

The Princesses of Heart, on the other hand, are our only example of body-and-soul lacking a heart where there are no traces of the heart left over to form a personality (as is the case with a Nobody), and they essentially turned into vegetables. They could breathe, but that was about it.


okay... but we mostly referr the spirit to the soul.

Like I said, I chose the wrong word anyway.

What the KH version of the soul seems the closest to is the reflexive, body-oriented aspects of a being. It keeps the person breathing, and therefore alive, but the heart is what makes them a person.



Basically, if a work of fiction suggests that there's an afterlife to ease the passing of a sympathetic character, and this is not contradicted elsewhere, it's usually safe to assume that said afterlife exists.

Since nothing in canon contradicts the idea that the Riku Replica's heart won't simply vanish, the implication is that hearts do go somewhere (and that the heart, rather than the soul, is the thing that one should be worried about).


As for my thoughts about potential connections to the Unbirths - I think that, if they're related to the soul at all, they are beings who never had souls to begin with and are therefore, in a sense, unborn. Or, on the other hand, if we take "Unbirth" as "a being whose birth was reversed," I suppose they could be existences of pure soul (if one considers birth as imparting a body and heart).

...I'm actually inclined to think that the second definition of "Unbirth" is more likely, though also much harder to predict, since having one's birth reversed is not the same thing as dying.
 

SilverJ-17

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Weak heart lets me believe they would be vulnerable to darkness being consumed by it creating a heartless but their are no heartless in bbs. Last how would the unbirths die out.

I meant "weak heart" more as "faint of heart." It's just more about the person being weak in general.. weak enough for them to not be able to withstand *insert amount of darkness* without their whole-being being corrupted and warped (transformed) by the darkness.


Wouldnt it be possible that they would become heartless. Even so how do they get corrupted.

Wouldn't it be possible that darkness might not just consume the heart, but the whole being to? Wouldn't it be possible for the heart to serve only as an entry way.. that is.. before the door (in HB) was tampered with or whatever Xehanort and the Apprentices did.. that lead to the creation of the Heartless.. and the extinction of the Unbirths. Maybe, whatever they did unsealed whatever thing protected the heart itself from being consumed. After all, heartless started with Ansem the Wise and the Apprentices. Alternately, it might of also had something to do with the Blue KH, which we saw in the BBS trailer.

Okay..... i'll try to figure out the relation. Between the two.

I really don't know, but it just feels like the Heart is spirit/ soul-like, considering how when Sora was in the darkness, he was forgetting all of his memories.. Well.. the scene just seems to consider that it was his spirit/ soul, that went through the forgetting about everything and being swallowed up by darkness.. until Kairi purified his heart. The perspective in the scene just seems to suggest that his heart basically played the role of the spirit. Oh, and by the scene, I mean the part where he's talking about what was happening, just after he lost his heart.
 

dahem kh & ff

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maybe in MX did something to the heart and the soul combined and then an unbirth was created

why does it called unbirth because there was no heartless or nobody born
or in another word there was no vessel only a heart with a soul = unbirth
 

keybladelegacy

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I'm pretty sure the question of "where does a person's heart go when they die" isn't really going to be dealt with in the series at all, because it'd cause more problems than it's worth.

Uhh.. were going in circles..:(

Whether or not the "Heart of Worlds" Kingdom Hearts gets explained depends on whether there's a character in the position to study it, so it might remain as something that's only explained in interviews, too.
Most likely...



Normally, that's the case - but, Sora and Riku both had an "existence of only the heart" at certain points due to the loss of their body and soul, and both kept their personalities.

The Princesses of Heart, on the other hand, are our only example of body-and-soul lacking a heart where there are no traces of the heart left over to form a personality (as is the case with a Nobody), and they essentially turned into vegetables. They could breathe, but that was about it.
Probably because they kept their sense of self.... If the heart contained the personally wouldnt the heartless have their own personally. The only reason i see them as just being a heart and still having their personallities is because they kept their sense of self.


Like I said, I chose the wrong word anyway.

What the KH version of the soul seems the closest to is the reflexive, body-oriented aspects of a being. It keeps the person breathing, and therefore alive, but the heart is what makes them a person.
Yes it makes them exist... So to speak. The heart contains darkness and light,contains the emotions and memories. So i think the soul has the personality but its just my opinion so...:x


Basically, if a work of fiction suggests that there's an afterlife to ease the passing of a sympathetic character, and this is not contradicted elsewhere, it's usually safe to assume that said afterlife exists.
Thats what im trying to find out...

Since nothing in canon contradicts the idea that the Riku Replica's heart won't simply vanish, the implication is that hearts do go somewhere (and that the heart, rather than the soul, is the thing that one should be worried about).
If his heart is artificial then you cant suggest that real hearts do the same.

As for my thoughts about potential connections to the Unbirths - I think that, if they're related to the soul at all, they are beings who never had souls to begin with and are therefore, in a sense, unborn.
If so they wouldnt be beings at all...

Or, on the other hand, if we take "Unbirth" as "a being whose birth was reversed," I suppose they could be existences of pure soul (if one considers birth as imparting a body and heart).

...I'm actually inclined to think that the second definition of "Unbirth" is more likely, though also much harder to predict, since having one's birth reversed is not the same thing as dying.
Reverse birth...(can you somewhat explain this)

SilverJ-17 said:
I meant "weak heart" more as "faint of heart." It's just more about the person being weak in general.. weak enough for them to not be able to withstand *insert amount of darkness* without their whole-being being corrupted and warped (transformed) by the darkness.

A whole being corrupted by darkness wouldnt this still continue....

Wouldn't it be possible that darkness might not just consume the heart, but the whole being to?
It does... The heart is consumed by darkness and the body and soul fades into darkness. But i get what your saying

Wouldn't it be possible for the heart to serve only as an entry way.. that is.. before the door (in HB) was tampered with or whatever Xehanort and the Apprentices did.. that lead to the creation of the Heartless.. and the extinction of the Unbirths. Maybe, whatever they did unsealed whatever thing protected the heart itself from being consumed.
In all hearts......
After all, heartless started with Ansem the Wise and the Apprentices. Alternately, it might of also had something to do with the Blue KH, which we saw in the BBS trailer.
Maybe...

I really don't know, but it just feels like the Heart is spirit/ soul-like, considering how when Sora was in the darkness, he was forgetting all of his memories.. Well.. the scene just seems to consider that it was his spirit/ soul, that went through the forgetting about everything and being swallowed up by darkness.. until Kairi purified his heart. The perspective in the scene just seems to suggest that his heart basically played the role of the spirit. Oh, and by the scene, I mean the part where he's talking about what was happening, just after he lost his heart.
Ok I understand what your saying...

maybe in MX did something to the heart and the soul combined and then an unbirth was created

What about a vessel to hold it...
why does it called unbirth because there was no heartless or nobody born
or in another word there was no vessel only a heart with a soul = unbirth
If the unbirths didnt have a vessel. Why do they appear the way they do?


15th member said:
So your saying that the heart fuses with the heart and no-body, but what will happen to the body? It will be casted the darkness <strike>it has to be!!</strike> and produce a nobody.

It couldnt create a nobody with just a body. And the body perishes when the soul leaves the body.
 

Ikkin

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^^ ^^ ^^ ^^

So your saying that the heart fuses with the heart and no-body, but what will happen to the body? It will be casted the darkness it has to be!! and produce a nobody.

I imagine that if the heart and soul could be fused together and separated from the body to form an Unbirth, the soulless body would just die and there wouldn't be a Nobody. The heart should go wherever it goes when the body dies, but if the soul is still around, it might not.

...actually, there'd even be a halfway decent reason to call such a thing an Unbirth, if one considers the heart and soul to exist before the body, which is given at birth. (The problem is, we have no idea what Nomura considers "birth" to entail in the KH-verse XD)


Uhh.. were going in circles..:(

Sorry. D= Metaphysics tends to do that, if the canon isn't clear.


Probably because they kept their sense of self.... If the heart contained the personally wouldnt the heartless have their own personally. The only reason i see them as just being a heart and still having their personallities is because they kept their sense of self.

The Heartless don't keep their personalities because the hearts they contain are consumed by darkness. This has more to do with the lack of a body than the lack of a soul, since the body usually shields the heart from darkness.

Plus, the fact that Sora and Riku kept their sense of self even while existing as only a heart suggests that the sense of self is not a function of the soul - if it was, their soul would have had to leave their body for them to keep their sense of self, and they would have ended up dead.

The sense of self itself seems to be a function of the heart which can be replicated into the Nobody, since Sora has his own sense of self at the same time as Roxas has it, and Namine has Kairi's sense of self even though her soul played no part in her creation (and Kairi, as well, has her own sense of self while Namine has it).


Yes it makes them exist... So to speak. The heart contains darkness and light,contains the emotions and memories. So i think the soul has the personality but its just my opinion so...:x

What else could the personality be?


If his heart is artificial then you cant suggest that real hearts do the same.

But the point of the scene is that he's wondering what going to happen to his heart because it's artificial. Riku speculates that the same thing would happen to it anyway - and therefore, for both real and artificial hearts, they'd go somewhere.


Reverse birth...(can you somewhat explain this)

I'm not really sure what it means myself. xD; Just that, whatever "birth" entails, the process would be reversed.
 
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keybladelegacy

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Sorry. D= Metaphysics tends to do that, if the canon isn't clear.

Ok lets see if we can get somewhere.

The Heartless don't keep their personalities because the hearts they contain are consumed by darkness. This has more to do with the lack of a body than the lack of a soul, since the body usually shields the heart from darkness.
The body could also fade into the darkness. I dont expect the body to shield the heart from darkness when the heart already contains it.
Plus, the fact that Sora and Riku kept their sense of self even while existing as only a heart suggests that the sense of self is not a function of the soul - if it was, their soul would have had to leave their body for them to keep their sense of self, and they would have ended up dead.
But the heart couldnt have the sense of self as a function either. If it was then it wouldnt explain the heartless because they attack on instinct.

The sense of self itself seems to be a function of the heart which can be replicated into the Nobody, since Sora has his own sense of self at the same time as Roxas has it, and Namine has Kairi's sense of self even though her soul played no part in her creation (and Kairi, as well, has her own sense of self while Namine has it).
Their is a problem with that all hearts dont retain their sense of self and dont create nobodies.


What else could the personality be?
Beats me


But the point of the scene is that he's wondering what going to happen to his heart because it's artificial. Riku speculates that the same thing would happen to it anyway - and therefore, for both real and artificial hearts, they'd go somewhere.
How would riku now.... :) Anyway if the heart is born into existence then i would suppose it fade out of existence.


I'm not really sure what it means myself. xD; Just that, whatever "birth" entails, the process would be reversed.
Okay i'll remember this:p
 

Muse

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didn't Yen Sid explain the a nobody is made up of both the body and the soul?

Yes. A Nobody is composed of a body and soul cast off by a strong heart, and a Heartless is a Heart that's covered in darkness.
 

Naryx15

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Is there really more to discuss about this?
We're basically repeating the same things over and over again..
 
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