The Sleeping Realm Theory

[FudgemintGuardian]

Yen Sid makes the point in DDD that Heartless cannot enter sleeping worlds. So if KH3 takes place in the Sleeping Realm then wouldn't that mean we'd not be seeing Heartless around?

Another thing is the theory is technically wrong about there being no mention of dreams or Dream Eaters when Sora's given the Dream Heartbinder, as the item's description is "A good luck charm that lets you call on the Dream Eaters' power using the Link command."

One more thing is that Meow Wow isn't "completely normal". Just like the name implies, Meow Wow here is a balloon.

 

[Face My Fears]

Yen Sid makes the point in DDD that Heartless cannot enter sleeping worlds. So if KH3 takes place in the Sleeping Realm then wouldn't that mean we'd not be seeing Heartless around?

Another thing is the theory is technically wrong about there being no mention of dreams or Dream Eaters when Sora's given the Dream Heartbinder, as the item's description is "A good luck charm that lets you call on the Dream Eaters' power using the Link command."

One more thing is that Meow Wow isn't "completely normal". Just like the name implies, Meow Wow here is a balloon.

There's a difference between Sleeping Worlds and The Sleeping Realm. Heartless cannot enter the Sleeping Worlds, but heartless can appear in the Sleeping Realm. We've seen this happen in the Station of Awakening.

 

[Twilight Lumiair]

Ok, so after finally getting through it all, I'll say this first: It REALLY didn't need to be that long, lol. As much of an interesting concept as it was, it didn't really make any kind of a complete narrative the way it lead me to believe. Ok, the game (possibly) takes place in the RoS in an alternate worldline. Aaaannd, what? What benefit does that add to the story as an experience and a finale aside from make things more convoluted (unnecessarily so)? As far the story of Kh3 is concerned, it doesn't justify much of the poor execution in the game. In terms of how the theory itself flowed, it was a bit exhausting. Like, it felt cohesive and flowed well at certain points, but by that same token there were many, MANY tangents that I honestly feel I could've skipped over in hindsight. The most fascinating thing I drew from it was the amount of symbolism in the game. While I certainly don't think much of the sybolism was entirely intended, the presence of it is still an unexpected plus I have to say. By the end though, and maybe someone can clarify this for me, did it specify whether all of the protagonist were currently in the Sleeping Realm, but Kairi wasn't (was she in the RoL, a different worldline, what)? Cause it was a bit confusing and vague on who's where in the ending. Also, the cut off scene with Xigbar was so OBVIOUSLY foreshadowing for the secret ending. Very few Keyblade wielders alive in the present know and actively use that phrase. The fact that Xigbar of all people sounded like he was going to say it, before it abruptly cuts off, was meant to clue us in on his potential history with the phrase, what it means, and make us question why it was so obviously obscured. The dramatic cut away noise giving the scene much more weight. Not to say I thought the theory was all bad, I loved how it tied in Chirithy's words to opening regarding the light in the darkness. Thought that was pretty interesting. Plus it explained the lack of story integration for the tutorial this time around. Idk, overall it was an interesting read, but I'm still personally skeptical.

Edit:

There's a difference between Sleeping Worlds and The Sleeping Realm. Heartless cannot enter the Sleeping Worlds, but heartless can appear in the Sleeping Realm. We've seen this happen in the Station of Awakening.

Hm? What were the Disney worlds themselves in KH3 in this case? Were they recreated by Sora's dreams, or were they Sleeping Worlds? Because either way, heartless shouldn't be able to be present if memory serves. Yes they can appear in the Station of Awakening, but if actual Disney worlds are present in the RoS in any capacity, then that world has to be asleep on some level, or part of a dream on some level. Like how even though Mysterious Tower wasn't entirely asleep (or asleep at all during DDD) the version of it Sora and Riku visit in the RoS only contained dream eaters with no heartless to speak of. Same goes with the TWTNW toward the end of the game right? There were no heartless there. In fact, I can't recall a single instance in the RoS where a world out side of the Dive to Heart contained any heartless. Another example that comes to mind is the brief Destiny Islands visit during the tutorial in KH 1 where Sora is speaking with Mickey. Sora dreams up that world like he does several others in DDD, and just like in that game, no heartless are present. Despite the fact that there were heartless crawling on all those stations prior and afterword. Unless I'm missing something crucial (and please tell me if so), heartless just shouldn't have the flexibility to operate across the RoS to the extent that this theory is proposing. If nothing else, just an incredibly limited amount.

 

[Face My Fears]

Ok, so after finally getting through it all, I'll say this first: It REALLY didn't need to be that long, lol. As much of an interesting concept as it was, it didn't really make any kind of a complete narrative the way it lead me to believe. Ok, the game (possibly) takes place in the RoS in an alternate worldline. Aaaannd, what? What benefit does that add to the story as an experience and a finale aside from make things more convoluted (unnecessarily so)? As far the story of Kh3 is concerned, it doesn't justify much of the poor execution in the game. In terms of how the theory itself flowed, it was a bit exhausting. Like, it felt cohesive and flowed well at certain points, but by that same token there were many, MANY tangents that I honestly feel I could've skipped over in hindsight. The most fascinating thing I drew from it was the amount of symbolism in the game. While I certainly don't think much of the sybolism was entirely intended, the presence of it is still an unexpected plus I have to say. By the end though, and maybe someone can clarify this for me, did it specify whether all of the protagonist were currently in the Sleeping Realm, but Kairi wasn't (was she in the RoL, a different worldline, what)? Cause it was a bit confusing and vague on who's where in the ending. Also, the cut off scene with Xigbar was so OBVIOUSLY foreshadowing for the secret ending. Very few Keyblade wielders alive in the present know and actively use that phrase. The fact that Xigbar of all people sounded like he was going to say it, before it abruptly cuts off, was meant to clue us in on his potential history with the phrase, what it means, and make us question why it was so obviously obscured. The dramatic cut away noise giving the scene much more weight. Not to say I thought the theory was all bad, I loved how it tied in Chirithy's words to opening regarding the light in the darkness. Thought that was pretty interesting. Plus it explained the lack of story integration for the tutorial this time around. Idk, overall it was an interesting read, but I'm still personally skeptical.

Edit:


Hm? What were the Disney worlds themselves in KH3 in this case? Were they recreated by Sora's dreams, or were they Sleeping Worlds? Because either way, heartless shouldn't be able to be present if memory serves. Yes they can appear in the Station of Awakening, but if actual Disney worlds are present in the RoS in any capacity, then that world has to be asleep on some level, or part of a dream on some level. Like how even though Mysterious Tower wasn't entirely asleep (or asleep at all during DDD) the version of it Sora and Riku visit in the RoS only contained dream eaters with no heartless to speak of. Same goes with the TWTNW toward the end of the game right? There were no heartless there. In fact, I can't recall a single instance in the RoS where a world out side of the Dive to Heart contained any heartless. Another example that comes to mind is the brief Destiny Islands visit during the tutorial in KH 1 where Sora is speaking with Mickey. Sora dreams up that world like he does several others in DDD, and just like in that game, no heartless are present. Despite the fact that there were heartless crawling on all those stations prior and afterword. Unless I'm missing something crucial (and please tell me if so), heartless just shouldn't have the flexibility to operate across the RoS to the extent that this theory is proposing. If nothing else, just an incredibly limited amount.

I am not sure. I think the theory was going off of the fact that KHUX takes place in the Realm of Sleep and has heartless in Disney worlds (and no dream eaters). Unless I'm totally wrong on that.

 

[Obiewantsanipod]

I think the concept is too premature. MoM did disappear as Sora has/will. I think it's something Nomura wants to explore in future titles and taking the first step now is the ideal time as we've been told fate can't be changed, which means that under normal circumstances MX was going to win and darkness would have prevailed. So I wouldn't say this is completely out of nowhere. Not to mention that MoM seems to be in the RoS as well so this would be very relevant to the future of the franchise.

And I do agree that the theory greatly undermines itself at various points and maybe should've omitted the parts that don't contribute much if at all to the general message.

And lastly, and I don't even know if this will turn out to be related, I wonder if this will end up justifying why in round 2 of the keyblade graveyard, Ven and Aqua were acting like they had no idea what Terranort was about to do to them, while everyone else seemed aware of what had happened before.

 

[allenleonardo]

Yen Sid makes the point in DDD that Heartless cannot enter sleeping worlds. So if KH3 takes place in the Sleeping Realm then wouldn't that mean we'd not be seeing Heartless around?

One more thing is that Meow Wow isn't "completely normal". Just like the name implies, Meow Wow here is a balloon.

Like others have pointed out the sleeping worlds are just part of the sleeping realm, which is a huge realm itself. There could just simply be different parts to it.

Maybe Meow Wow has different powers in the realm of sleep (unlike in sleeping worlds) but it is strange that he is the only summon that is crystal clear while the others are not.

Ok, the game (possibly) takes place in the RoS in an alternate worldline. Aaaannd, what? What benefit does that add to the story as an experience and a finale aside from make things more convoluted (unnecessarily so)? As far the story of Kh3 is concerned, it doesn't justify much of the poor execution in the game.

By the end though, and maybe someone can clarify this for me, did it specify whether all of the protagonist were currently in the Sleeping Realm, but Kairi wasn't (was she in the RoL, a different worldline, what)? Cause it was a bit confusing and vague on who's where in the ending.

Also, the cut off scene with Xigbar was so OBVIOUSLY foreshadowing for the secret ending.

Hm? What were the Disney worlds themselves in KH3 in this case? Were they recreated by Sora's dreams, or were they Sleeping Worlds? Because either way, heartless shouldn't be able to be present if memory serves. Yes they can appear in the Station of Awakening, but if actual Disney worlds are present in the RoS in any capacity, then that world has to be asleep on some level, or part of a dream on some level.

Well as they have stated in the theory one reason why its now in the RoS could be to avoid death. Just like how the TWEWY cast was in a sleeping world to avoid true death. So maybe it was a way to be able to truly defeat Xehanort this time and maybe its one of the few reason why Sora was able to change fate at all.

Also why even introduce the concept of such a realm in DDD (a game that once should have been part of KH3) and not do anything with it. And on top of that it would explain so many of the new mechanics.

It could be that Kairi herself stayed in the RoL to help them turn back after their first loss, so her heart never went with them in the first place which would explain why she did not have one when she was killed because it was not her real body that was killed. But I think the ones that posted the theory did point out that Kairi is still the biggest mystery of them all.

The cut off scene could have easily be both. A hint towards who he truly was and the point where Sora dropped. (Seemingly you can even hear the sound of the drop at that scene)

Well seemingly at least all those disney worlds we visited were part of the RoS, so these world (if the theory is true of course) would have fallen into that realm. We only learned about truly sleeping worlds in DDD, maybe there are different states in that realm. So the station of awakening and most of the Disney worlds in KH3 could have simply been not deep enough into that realm that heartless were able to get there. And I mean since the SoA is said to be in that realm and heartless are there, there should be no reason why they are not in other worlds in that realm.

And lastly, and I don't even know if this will turn out to be related, I wonder if this will end up justifying why in round 2 of the keyblade graveyard, Ven and Aqua were acting like they had no idea what Terranort was about to do to them, while everyone else seemed aware of what had happened before.

I found that to be weird at first too but imo isnt that just the case because traveling back through time means that you will lose the memories of it? Thats at least what happens to YX. But even if you lose the memories your heart will remember. It could simply be that they still had some idea about their loss right when they were back but lost all of it and only their hearts remembers. Or they lost it completey after going back to the place where they died because Sora rewrote reality.

 

[Ballad of Caius]

Although I think this is an extraordinary theory, I'd like to think that the inclusion of Versus XIII/Verum Rex in KHIII is a way for Nomura to settle for a possible entirely new IP where he can manifest what he couldn't manifest with Versus XIII. I think KH is its own thing, and the theory of dreams might be replaced with data, seeing as how that's where the KHUx update is going.

 

[bambii]

There will be some things you won’t agree with, but the core concepts of the theory are really hard to deny, and really help explain why certain parts of the game feel...dream-like and off at times. It’s also very much in line with what Nomura wanted to explore in Versus XIII and also mirrors a lot of what Nomura was interested in evoking with KH1.

I'm not too familiar with Nomura's original vision for Versus XIII - can someone fill me in?

Also, this may be far-fetched, but I tend to enjoy reading Kingdom Hearts through a mythological/psycho-theological lens - my experience of playing through the last chapter of KH3 (everyone dies --> Final World --> Lich --> "re-birth" (through/by sleep?)) struck me as reminiscent in some ways to the journey the soul takes in the moments following death as described in the Tibetan Book of the Dead. Note the following quote from the hyperlinked summary: "The Bardo Thodol teaches that once awareness is freed from the body, it creates its own reality as one would experience in a dream."

Not everything that happens in the KH3 sequence has a direct analogue, but in brief: Sora "dies"/has a near-death experience. His soul travels to the Final World, which is positioned as the threshold between sleep/dream and death. Chirithy, in effect, offers him the choice of either passing on (to the "Clear Light of Ultimate Reality", aka true death) or painstakingly gathering (remembering, holding onto) the pieces of his heart (his personality, who he is, which is held together by memory -- and, as we know, memory is indeed the "key" or "glue" to existing as a unique personality in the world of Kingdom Hearts, as we see with the return of Roxas and Xion, respectively. Also, it's Sora's remembrance of Kairi and the others in the Final World which tethers him to the world of the living, as it were). At this point Sora begins, metaphorically speaking, descending (or perhaps the better word is "diving") down through the various stages of the Bardos, in the Book of the Dead's terminology, desperately clinging to life, to his sense of self, to those he loves and the memories which he cherishes (diving through worlds to save his friends, as he chases the Lich) - that is, further and further AWAY from the "Clear Light of Ultimate Reality" (Kingdom Hearts, anyone???). I found YMX's dialogue here to be particularly noteworthy: "Dream by dream, you nearly buried yourself in the dark of sleep. And now you're at it again? The Lich you've been fighting... It exists to usher hearts down to the depths of darkness. If you chase it, you will condemn your heart to that same abyss." A couple things worth noting here: The Lich strikes me as similar in nature to the "Lord of Death" described in the Book of the Dead, who appears all the way at the bottom/end of the near/post-death "dream" (the Third Bardo): "a fearsome demonic deity who appears in smoke and fire [...] The soul who is still not liberated [...] will now be drawn remorselessly toward rebirth." Of course, the degree to which we take rebirth/reincarnation here literally is open to interpretation - but the parallels are fascinating. Tempted deeper and deeper into a dream, further and further away from the Light, into the darkest abyss. Only to be - reborn! Into a... dream world? Another worldline? I'm impossibly curious to see what direction Nomura ultimately decides to go with this, but in any case it's chock-filled with symbolic and metaphysical meaning. I'm of the belief that there's a strong tie here to the "price to pay" for abusing the Power of Waking - Sora's disappearance and all that. Others have also speculated that the MoM disappeared for similar reasons. I also do quite like the idea posited by Ballad of Caius above:

When Kingdom Hearts was plunged into Darkness, it went to sleep and the events we are experiencing are the dreams of Kingdom Hearts itself. The MoM is a scientist trying to escape from this dream.

Similar idea, just applied more generally - to the world as a whole/Kingdom Hearts itself. Perhaps the "price to pay" is being lost in a labyrinth of dreams, unable to distinguish true reality. In fact, YMX does say: "If you chase it [the Lich], you will condemn your heart to that same abyss." Um, he DID chase it. 6 times.

In any case, this is of course all speculation and a highly subjective reading, but suffice it to say that the experience of the last several hours of KH3 were, for me, incredibly dream-like and seemed to defy all logic while simultaneously being propelled by some kind of mysterious, alternate logic. When I encountered the Sleeping Realm Theory several days later it really resonated with the experience I had with the game, and heightened my suspicions that this series is beginning to dabble with some profoundly metaphysical concepts.

Real trippy shit. Gonna stop typing now.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

I'm not too familiar with Nomura's original vision for Versus XIII - can someone fill me in?

Some rumored leaks claimed that Versus XIII was going to deal with the themes of death and dreams. Noctis would have been in a near death situation and that would have linked him to the world between life and death where the gate of Etro laid. Behind her door was the abyss of Chaos, a place where all souls passed on to their final rest.

Noctis would have frequently visited this space between life and death through his dreams, and in this place he would have spoken to the dead. It would have led Noctis to question what was reality and what was dreams.

Also time travel was supposed to play a part in the story, and Noctis would have had to face the reality that some fates cannot be rewritten and changing the past has consequences.

This coincidentally fits with Sora’s experience with the Final World, but instead of realizing fate is unchanging, Sora essentially gives up his own life to create a new fate.

Also, Stella would have died and been a moving goal post for Noctis. 8D

 

[SuperSaiyanSora]

Some rumored leaks claimed that Versus XIII was going to deal with the themes of death and dreams. Noctis would have been in a near death situation and that would have linked him to the world between life and death where the gate of Etro laid. Behind her door was the abyss of Chaos, a place where all souls passed on to their final rest.

Noctis would have frequently visited this space between life and death through his dreams, and in this place he would have spoken to the dead. It would have led Noctis to question what was reality and what was dreams.

Also time travel was supposed to play a part in the story, and Noctis would have had to face the reality that some fates cannot be rewritten and changing the past has consequences.

This coincidentally fits with Sora’s experience with the Final World, but instead of realizing fate is unchanging, Sora essentially gives up his own life to create a new fate.

Also, Stella would have died and been a moving goal post for Noctis. 8D

There's also the whole "seeing the light of expiring souls" ability that Noctis supposedly gained by said near death experience as a kid, and I believe Stella had that happen to her as well. Which was why I think they were drawn to each other, that power. Rumors also say that she was killed in the beginning... by Noctis, but Noctis doesn't remember this and that's why Ravus (previously Lupus) wanted to kill Noctis. As well, everyone but Ignis was going to betray him in some way and it's just a path of death everywhere, and probably would more or less end the same way FFXV did.

Rumors, of course. But who really knows because someone leaked FFXV's whole plot six months prior to release, and someone ALSO said the "World of Versus" was going to be teased in KH3, and technically...

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

There's also the whole "seeing the light of expiring souls" ability that Noctis supposedly gained by said near death experience as a kid, and I believe Stella had that happen to her as well. Which was why I think they were drawn to each other, that power. Rumors also say that she was killed in the beginning... by Noctis, but Noctis doesn't remember this and that's why Ravus (previously Lupus) wanted to kill Noctis. As well, everyone but Ignis was going to betray him in some way and it's just a path of death everywhere, and probably would more or less end the same way FFXV did.

Rumors, of course. But who really knows because someone leaked FFXV's whole plot six months prior to release, and someone ALSO said the "World of Versus" was going to be teased in KH3, and technically...

I was only mentioning the stuff related to what we got in KH3 since the rest of that stuff is really irrelevant.

Apparently this rumor was vetted. It seems likely that the person who leaked XV’s story was the one who leaked the Versus XIII rumor.

The guy who was teasing the Versus Epic thing on Twitter isn’t the same guy as the person who leaked the rumors above. Most people think he’s crazy. I guess he wasn’t wrong since Yozora is essentially Noctis 2.0 and even got a few bits of “Somnus” in the music...

 

[Nukara]

What? No, he hasn’t

In twitter, the person translating the Nomura interview.
Said Luxord card will be the way to return Sora. This is from what I heard.

 

[Nukara]

There is nothing right now that makes the theory crumble. Some say it does because Ultima said that the opening plays after KH3 which includes in their opinion the tutorial too but that seems to not be 100% clear. Other translations makes it seem more like its only about him saying these words at the start and not the tutorial too.

Anything else seems to go along quite well with the theory. Sora is missing. He fell into even deeper layers of sleep (if the theory is true) or just into the deep abyss if we just take the facts directly from the game (which is kinda the same, at least if you compare it with DDD) Thus why Luxords card could of course play an important role in the future and not crumble the theory.

What else is there in your opinon that makes it a crumbling theory?

(I also dont really understand your last sentence. What exactly do you mean with precondition? Sorry english is not my mother tongue)

I apologize in advance for my shoals in English.
It’s just a theory for hate fans of Kairi and SoRiku fans.
Do not you think it silly to give Kairi keyblade to kill again and now forever? She and so in this game was not in better shape.
Sora already saved everyone once, why can't he save Kairi again? And why did he then have to "kill" at all if in the end he still would not save her?
Arguments to this theory come from the fact that the characters are looking in the wrong direction in the wrong direction.
Such theories are nothing more than another reason to get rid of an unloved character, that's all. I have already seen something like this in Naruto and Harry Potter fandoms where the fans of NaruSaku, SasuKarin, NaruSasu and the fans of Harry Potter / Hermione also wrote fan fiction and built up a theory that would even remotely resemble it. And people thought that such theories were 100% true.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

In twitter, the person translating the Nomura interview.
Said Luxord card will be the way to return Sora. This is from what I heard.

That doesn’t go against the theory. And Nomura didn’t say anything about what the card will do outright.

I apologize in advance for my shoals in English.
It’s just a theory for hate fans of Kairi and SoRiku fans.

The people who wrote the theory are Kairi fans, though. You can really ignore most of the shippy aspects of the theory. The core of it is the sleeping realm aspects.

 

[allenleonardo]

It’s just a theory for hate fans of Kairi and SoRiku fans.
Do not you think it silly to give Kairi keyblade to kill again and now forever? She and so in this game was not in better shape.
Sora already saved everyone once, why can't he save Kairi again? And why did he then have to "kill" at all if in the end he still would not save her?
Arguments to this theory come from the fact that the characters are looking in the wrong direction in the wrong direction.

But nothing of that makes the theory crumble at all. Yes its focused on Riku and Sora but honestly they are not just telling stuff that arent in the game, they use the japanese version (which does not take away Rikus part in saving Sora in the final world unlike the english version...) to point out the theme. Also at no point did I get the feeling that they are using it to hate on Kairi. They just see her role different. And her end is still open, since they are pointing out that they have no clue where her heart is thus the speculation that she paid the price for them to jump worldlines. That does not mean that Sora cant truly save her later. Yet even if he does not, why should Kairi be an exception of dieing?

I mean do you not find it silly that Nomura gave Kairi a keyblade and left her with her PoH power for her to be mostly useless in the fight itself and then killed of for motivation? Heck who knows, maybe she has also somehow turned herself into a spirit and will have a bigger role to play in later games with that. Maybe this is even better for her character than simply being just killed of, because at least in the theory she seemingly was the one that helped them escape the worldline or at least was the one that paid the price. If it was not some passive wishing again, then that sounds at least like some more active role to me.

The thing is, this theory uses examples from the game to explain their theory. And it should be viewed as that and not true the eyes of "oh my god they are shippers, thus they must have done this to destroy character x or ship y". Look at the overall theory and tell me where exactly they hate on Kairi? Where exactly its nothing but shipping for Sora and Riku. And where the theory itself crumbles apart and not just because you dislike that they are shippers.

Also Sora is lost. Him changing the fate of the universe (no matter if that was in the RoL or RoS) sealed his own fate. It was not Kairi at the end (as far as we can tell) that killed him, it was his act of changing the fate of all people and he seemingly just had some time left before he disappeared that he used to either save Kairi and/or see her one last time. Because YX already told him that he has misused it too much before Kairi was even killed, so her really not being saved or with them at the end does not change his fate at all. So of course even in that theory the card that Luxord gave him will help. So still not seeing how that is against it?

Her not being with them would also give Sora the chance to grow as a character and would fit with the theme of the last two disney worlds, where the characters had to accept the death or loss of people they love. While right now Sora still would have won completely only at the loss of himself.

They might bloat their theory a bit too much with details but the ending is strange. Sora and Kairi not sitting on the tree until the very end, everyone standing in a position where they are not looking at the tree but something else (which seemingly was big enough to get everyones attention) The sky being different colors in a scene that should happen at the same time. If we never had DDD thus knew that different time and things like that are clues, then maybe we could say that its an error. But having so many strange things in one ending? So many mistakes? Again we are talking about Nomura who has already said that even simply gestures can mean things.

So in the end I still dont see any good reason why this theory would outright crumble. And no the authors being shippers is not a good reason at all.

Anyway it is of course still just a theory and they are not going around stating it as facts. And of course this can all be wrong. But maybe some or most of it are right. At least right now there is nothing major that destroys it.

 

[Audo]

One bit that bugs me is that they point to the Xigbar scene and the weird sound-effect + cut as "this is when the drop happens" (for one, okay why? why a random character and not sora? but anyway) and they link this with Riku in the RoD through a similar...ish sound effect (a bit of a stretch for me but i'll buy it) but then they say absolutely nothing about the fact that the exact same sound effect and cut style used for Xigbar's scene is used in Twilight Town when Sora hears the Nobodies. Did they just forget this happens, or are they intentionally avoiding addressing it because it points to it simply being a stylistic choice and not a symbol of deeper meaning?

 

[allenleonardo]

Good question, maybe they have only listened to the drop sounds when somebody does fall asleep and only noticed the Xigbar one because it was so strange. Thus they may have simply not noticed the sound in Twilight Town.

Isnt it Sora that drops into a deeper layer of sleep after Xigbars words just that we dont see him waking up? I did find this to be the only drop that is a bit strange because at least with all the other examples you have Sora waking up again.

Sadly I dont own twitter but maybe someone can ask them about this? They do still add stuff to this theory after all.

 

[balloon53]

So i am not saying that I trust this theory or not but the Google doc was changed after translations came out. I had started reading it before it was changed and there are parts of the theory that are gone. If I was to write a theory I would never go back on anything I had said that just bothers me with the credibility. In order to not read the shippy sections you have to also skip many pages in the document and that also bothers me with the credibility. A really good theory is always unbiased and based on facts rather than opinion but I guess thats my 2 cents. Follow your heart on what you truly beleive and just be respectful about it. I have seen many people getting hate because they dont believe the theory.

 

[Happyfunshineman]

A friend of mine sent me this yesterday and I stayed up almost all night thinking about Lumpy the Heffalump.

So i am not saying that I trust this theory or not but the Google doc was changed after translations came out. I had started reading it before it was changed and there are parts of the theory that are gone. If I was to write a theory I would never go back on anything I had said that just bothers me with the credibility. In order to not read the shippy sections you have to also skip many pages in the document and that also bothers me with the credibility. A really good theory is always unbiased and based on facts rather than opinion but I guess thats my 2 cents. Follow your heart on what you truly beleive and just be respectful about it. I have seen many people getting hate because they dont believe the theory.

I don’t think this is entirely fair to the creators of the theory. They noticed some flaws in their theory based off the Ultimania translations, so they re-evaluated if their theory still made sense and made adjustments. If anything, I think they would be less credible if they doubled down on the flawed aspects of their theory in spite of the evidence from the interviews.

I think mentioning the fact that people have gotten hate because they didn’t believe the theory unfairly lumps the believes with the more problematic ones your probably referring to. I can see where your coming from but I think this is the kind of social discourse that always comes from theories.

Anyways, its been so long since we had such a large Kingdom Hearts game that I had forgotten how much I like reading these kinds of theories. It’s always a good time.

 

[allenleonardo]

Yeah I also think its not fair to say that its less credible if they adapt it. For me it just shows that they are watching other sources to see if they are right or wrong and that they have no problem with correcting something if its false. I mean if they would stick to everything they have written then people will just point out how x is wrong which then suddenly makes the whole theory wrong in their eyes, even if its just one detail.

Also I am not really sure why this theory is shippy? Because they wrote about love between Riku and Sora? But they have pointed out that this can mean many sorts of love. The focus on them both? Well isnt the game itself often focusing on them both, giving them both an attack that plays dearly beloved as their heart song?