News ► The second episode of Kingdom Hearts Mysteries is now live

[WanPisu]

I'm not too knowledgeable about the lore of KH so these videos are an entertaining way of learning new things and refresh memories.

I do believe speculation should be completely excluded or atleast acknowledged as speculation, whether it's the case or not with this particular video. Something I currently cannot tell. Just to put it out there.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

I'm not too knowledgeable about the lore of KH so these videos are an entertaining way of learning new things and refresh memories.

I do believe speculation should be completely excluded or atleast acknowledged as speculation, whether it's the case or not with this particular video. Something I currently cannot tell. Just to put it out there.

What we said wasn't speculation so much as we used a term that people didn't agree over even though there is no better way to say "Sora's heart was purified by Kairi while his body was walking around as Roxas, thus leaving him as a heart with no body but a physical human form. During his fight against the Enigmatic Figure (Xemnas) in KHFM, Sora is told he is "incomplete" and "not whole" which we find out is due to the fact that Roxas was his body and soul" without going over our word count and time limit. So we went with "walking heart" since it's shorter than "Sora was a heart without a body but with a physical form"

 

[FudgemintGuardian]

Another great episode guys! Even with already knowing what the videos talk about it's great having these quick refreshers and I'm sure to be watching them all over again when KHIII comes.

The video has an issue. At 11:21, 12:29, and 12:51 the video would go either super bright or dark.

What Kairi did restored Sora's heart back to normal from his Heartless state, but that essentially made Sora from the end of the first Kingdom Hearts to the beginning of Kingdom Hearts II a walking heart, as his body had already been cast away into the darkness to be reborn in Twilight Town as his Nobody Roxas

My issue with this is...I don't know why some are having an issue with it, as I just don't see how calling him a walking heart is speculation as all the information concludes such.

We still have approximately three episodes left, and although most has been planned out ahead, we could always use some suggestions and even criticism. So don't be shy to let us know if there's anything you'd want for the next episodes

I'd like to see an episode about all the realms (including the Datascape) and (if you aren't planning it already) I'd love an episode on X[chi].

 

[WanPisu]

What we said wasn't speculation so much as we used a term that people didn't agree over even though there is no better way to say "Sora's heart was purified by Kairi while his body was walking around as Roxas, thus leaving him as a heart with no body but a physical human form. During his fight against the Enigmatic Figure (Xemnas) in KHFM, Sora is told he is "incomplete" and "not whole" which we find out is due to the fact that Roxas was his body and soul" without going over our word count and time limit. So we went with "walking heart" since it's shorter than "Sora was a heart without a body but with a physical form"

Oh, absolutely. I was just stating. That sounds like a reasonable decision.

 

[BEASTENDER]

The only people I see get hung over the term is fans deep into the canon, so very few casual fans really pay attention to it at all.

@Incognito, I'm not particularly fond of the phrase either since it doesn't seem like something Nomura would say at all (But you seriously can't put it past him lol), But I agree with a part of Master Spockanort's comment. The grand majority of people who watch the video won't put any emphasis on that part, and likely won't even remember the phrase/fan terminology anyway, much less make it an ordeal or quote it anytime down the line (I sure didn't, and I knew how it worked). The event in which it took place has already served it's purpose, and can be explained with or without the phrase, as there is no official "lore" term.

It was more of a generalization to better understand the situation. When there is a lack of official terminology and statements, it causes conflict. For instance, you know what I was seriously dying to bring up when criticism was asked for? Dual Wielding. The ability was attributed to Roxas yet again in this video, and I can certainly argue the opposite based on irrefutable facts that Nomura has established, but I won't because in the grand scheme it doesn't matter, because official revelations and explanations have long since been revealed as to why the concept of Dual Wielding can even exist, and why Roxas and Sora are able to do so. Who's ability it is is relatively unimportant since they explanation as to why they can is there, and they are both part of the same whole. There is no conflict within the story despite which side is taken.

So while I agree calling your opinion silly was a bit harsh, especially since critique was requested and you expressed simple, non offensive dissatisfaction with a fan term due to lack of official terms (with the fans in mind), In the grand scheme of the plot and story, we understand all that transpired and why it transpired. So I believe people who watch the video to educate themselves will still leave knowing what they need to know, with no conflict or falsities. I mean, I think @Tinny said she hated the way he pronounces Kingdom Hearts lol While admittedly it is "weird" (Again, it's the same with or without emphasis,), I think Brandon's voice is great, and I wouldn't call someone silly just because they disliked how someone said something. But I'm sure @Taochan didn't mean anything by it at all, just like you didn't either.


In short, I think the fans will be good guys

 

[LinkToAll]

Thanks for your comment. That's a good point regarding Ven and why his body was left behind. It is a bit unclear what happens when your heart leaves the body. However, the simplest explanation is that he doesn't have any darkness in his heart and wouldn't therefore be sent to the Realm of Darkness, which is the one we went with in the script. But yours is quite valid and I'll be sure to keep it in mind if it's relevant for the remaining episodes.

I, however, don't really see what the problem is regarding your second point. Because that's exactly the interview quote I used when writing the Vanitas part. We were discussing how Vanitas might still be able to return, since him reappearing in DDD wasn't just YMX pulling him back from the past, but rather him appearing from deep inside Sora, meaning that he wasn't exactly eradicated by Ven.

I'm actually very interested in this, so if I'm missing something here, please let me know

Concerning the Ven part, I don't have an issue with the explanation, it makes sense, but just how it was presented in the video. The video made it sound as though it was confirmed, when it really is speculation. I understand wanting to go with the simplest explanation, but we don't know if that's true, so if it's included in the video, it should be specified as speculation. Or if time/script constraints are in the way, it shouldn't be in there at all, especially since it wasn't related to the subject of the video, or at least I didn't think so.

The Vanitas part is kind of complicated. D: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I interpreted the interview as saying that Xehanort and co. said things to make Sora lose himself, so in that particular scene, they were trying to stir Ven's heart. So when the player (and perhaps Sora) sees the illusion of Vanitas, it's simply an image created by Ven's imagination as he's recalling Vanitas. But I interpreted the video as saying Vanitas was reacting to Ven's heart, inferring Vanitas himself was present in the scene. I could've misinterpreted the interview, but the Memorial Ultimania doesn't acknowledge Vanitas in DDD at all, whereas characters like Xion are listed as appearing in BbS, Re:Coded, and DDD as mirages.

Kingdom Hearts Memorial: Vanitas - Kingdom Hearts Memorial Ultimania (Page 37 Bottom Half) (Vanitas' Ultimania page)
Kingdom Hearts Memorial: Xion - Kingdom Hearts Memorial Page 45 (Top Half) (Xion's Ultimania page)

I know this is my own opinion, but I don't think there was any canon insinuation that part of Vanitas could still exist within Ven. Personally, I felt it was the opposite, that Ven completely erased him from his heart, as indicated by his Station of Awakening/whatever it's called reverting back to normal after their fight. Furthermore, Namine's given no insinuation of finding any part of Vanitas existing within Sora, not to mention Vanitas never appeared with those connected to Sora in DDD, neither in Sora's TWTNW dream sequence, nor when Riku entered his heart.

I'm not misunderstanding. No no, I didn't take any offense. Well I didn't until Taochans post. Sorry if it came off as directed or angry to anyone else. I was just discussing my point and replying to responses to my own opinions.
That's just it though. Your site is the only place I've seen this description.

It's not the explanation itself its that there is no official statement on the matter. To throw in ones own personal theory as a fact is misleading. That's all I was pointing out.
It made just as much sense to say exactly what happened there wasn't every clarified and of all the theories and opinions you can find scattered on sites that is the most true statement.
I've seen no one argue against it being a personal theory/explanation of the staff or argue against the fact there is no true clarification on it.

Basically it just feels wrong to me to offer a personal theory as a fact to a video many will find and look to. That is my stance and that is what I was expressing.
This has nothing to do with my own personal theory on the matter or yours even. It was using that personal theory as fact that is the issue I feel.
I don't keep up with interview or stuff myself anymore but I did make a thread recently on the topic just out of curiosity and a staff even pointed out to me there is no explanation of this phenomenon. (the theory they proposed also differed from this one)

I don't know if you're still here, but I agree with you: speculation should not be in a video made to inform.

 

[Taochan]

Well sorry my opinions are silly then. I had no idea the only commentary you wanted was those of praise and agreement. I'll make sure not to bother sharing them anymore. But what was the nitpick wasn't the explanation but that the explanation was passed as fact when in fact there is no stated explanation on the subject at all which tied into the very fact it IS accessible to many. There's nothing backing walking heart over other theories I've seen. (it's one thing to have personal theories, we all do, but it's another matter entirely to pass your own off as fact then call others silly for pointing it out)

But whatever. I'll make sure not to bother with your video thread anymore then.>_>

To start, saying something is silly isn't saying you're silly; I wasn't attacking you. Yes, we asked for feedback, obviously not only praise and agreement was asked for. But after your initial comment you were no longer trying to give constructive criticism for things that can be improved on or watched out for with the next video. You were trying to suggest your own preferred terminology that you felt was better suited to the video that has already been released and cannot be edited, which is not helpful and continuous nitpicking over it definitely is silly. No one put personal theories in the video, though it can definitely be agreed that some fan phrasing or even uncommon phrasing was used in an attempt to make some things more concise and understandable given the time constraint.

Dual Wielding. The ability was attributed to Roxas yet again in this video, and I can certainly argue the opposite based on irrefutable facts that Nomura has established, but I won't because in the grand scheme it doesn't matter, because official revelations and explanations have long since been revealed as to why the concept of Dual Wielding can even exist, and why Roxas and Sora are able to do so. Who's ability it is is relatively unimportant since they explanation as to why they can is there, and they are both part of the same whole. There is no conflict within the story despite which side is taken.

I had to listen to it again after you wrote this. It definitely wasn't meant to be implied that Roxas literally gave his dual-wielding powers to Sora, as obviously that is not the case. That definitely could have used even one more sentence to just make it clear, sob.

@Taochan didn't mean anything by it at all

I appreciate this. ;~;

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Finally got to watch this in its entirety and I'd say you made a good job on it. This should definitely help people unfamiliar with the setting getting a better grasp.

Sure, some of the things that are still kept vague inside the series could have been marked as such with a bit more emphasis, but the choosen interpretations are the ones which make the most sense based on what is known so far.
Especially that "walking heart" issue since while it is not officially confirmed anywhere, we do see Riku's heart in the KH FM scenes in the Realm of Darkness with a physical projection as well as Young Xehanort in DDD explicitly referring to the robed Figure as "Xehanort reduced to just a heart".

For instance, you know what I was seriously dying to bring up when criticism was asked for? Dual Wielding. The ability was attributed to Roxas yet again in this video, and I can certainly argue the opposite based on irrefutable facts that Nomura has established, but I won't because in the grand scheme it doesn't matter, because official revelations and explanations have long since been revealed as to why the concept of Dual Wielding can even exist, and why Roxas and Sora are able to do so. Who's ability it is is relatively unimportant since they explanation as to why they can is there, and they are both part of the same whole. There is no conflict within the story despite which side is taken.

After having just watched the video I can safely say that you misunderstood the whole thing.
The only thing about dual wielding attributed to Roxas within the video was that he was the first one to use it within the series.
This is also an irrefutable fact made by the series itself as Roxas did use it first (in Deep Dive as well as in KH 2).
The video didn't speak about where the ability originally came from, on the contrary the next part of the video explicitly states that when Roxas rejoined with Sora, Sora regained Ven's heart and dual-wielding.

Listening closely to the speech in the video I did not find that the team made any error towards this, not to mention that the dual-wielding could be considered a whole topic of its own that was not the focus of this episode.

Concerning the Ven part, I don't have an issue with the explanation, it makes sense, but just how it was presented in the video. The video made it sound as though it was confirmed, when it really is speculation. I understand wanting to go with the simplest explanation, but we don't know if that's true, so if it's included in the video, it should be specified as speculation. Or if time/script constraints are in the way, it shouldn't be in there at all, especially since it wasn't related to the subject of the video, or at least I didn't think so.

The Vanitas part is kind of complicated. D: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I interpreted the interview as saying that Xehanort and co. said things to make Sora lose himself, so in that particular scene, they were trying to stir Ven's heart. So when the player (and perhaps Sora) sees the illusion of Vanitas, it's simply an image created by Ven's imagination as he's recalling Vanitas. But I interpreted the video as saying Vanitas was reacting to Ven's heart, inferring Vanitas himself was present in the scene. I could've misinterpreted the interview, but the Memorial Ultimania doesn't acknowledge Vanitas in DDD at all, whereas characters like Xion are listed as appearing in BbS, Re:Coded, and DDD as mirages.

I know this is my own opinion, but I don't think there was any canon insinuation that part of Vanitas could still exist within Ven. Personally, I felt it was the opposite, that Ven completely erased him from his heart, as indicated by his Station of Awakening/whatever it's called reverting back to normal after their fight. Furthermore, Namine's given no insinuation of finding any part of Vanitas existing within Sora, not to mention Vanitas never appeared with those connected to Sora in DDD, neither in Sora's TWTNW dream sequence, nor when Riku entered his heart.

While we have indeed no official confirmation, the explanation given there is the most appropriate one as Ven having an artificial heart of pure light is an important plot point.
Normally when the heart leaves the body the body disappears in some manner (swallowed by darkness or dissolving into light sparkles as seen with Sora, Eraqus and Master Xehanort). Kairi and Ven are the only ones where this doesn't happen when their hearts leave their bodies.

As for the Vanitas issue with DDD, the main gripe with that one is that Nomura himself actually says both, that Vanitas is reacting to Ven's heart as well as Ven's heart stirring within Sora:

— Why did Xehanort and co. word things as if to try and wake Ventus who is inside Sora?
Nomura: They did so in order to tempt Sora’s heart and have it fall to the darkness. In the story it also talks about how abandoning the self leads to losing the heart. When you see Vanitas (the dark half of Ventus who appeared in KHBBS) overlay Young Xehanort for a moment, that represents Ventus’ heart reacting inside Sora.

— What about Vanitas?
Nomura: Vanitas is different than Xemnas and Ansem; he doesn’t necessarily have a physical form. He reacted to Ventus within Sora, so that’s how he was visible.

The only information we get from this is that Vanitas doesn't have a physical form right now (which is also true for Roxas, Naminé and Xion).
It does not indicate anything about Vanitas' current whereabouts

Exactly, there is no real indicator that Vanitas still somehow exists inside Ventus.
From a sole in-game, in-universe viewpoint that would also contradict the primary reason as to why Ventus was fighting the final battle in the first place.
He was fighting to undo the forced fusion of Vanitas' and his heart, explicitly stating his intent to destroy both the X-blade and Vanitas.

That being said though, I do not see the video making any errors in that regard as it is stated that Vanitas' current status is unknown, but his short appearance in DDD may indicate he has a role in the upcoming KH III.
The video isn't just about those who are directly inside Sora's heart (Naminé is in Kairi's for example) and Vanitas does have an indirect connection with Sora (through Ven) as that is what gives him his appearance.
Furthermore, even though Vanitas may not be inside Ven's heart anymore, his connection to Ven could still be intact regardless of where his heart is located at the moment.

 

[Anagram]

My issue with this is...I don't know why some are having an issue with it, as I just don't see how calling him a walking heart is speculation as all the information concludes such.

Except nothing concludes that much. Theres nothing detailing the phenomenon at all. It was a plot hole back in the early days when it was a hot topic and according to the replies in the thread I made a while back it still is a plot hole. Its honestly probably the only true plot hole in this series that's true to the definition of "plot hole". (unlike the "plot holes" you see members like Samhain throw around)
No one arguing the point with me is even denying it's unexplained or that it's their personal term for it.

I just feel a personal view should be addressed as one like the member Wan Pisu said.
For instance my personal take on it is just that Kairi gave him a new form because plot hole or dues ex machina and if I was explaining it to anyone I'd point out its just my take on it.

@Incognito, I'm not particularly fond of the phrase either since it doesn't seem like something Nomura would say at all (But you seriously can't put it past him lol), But I agree with a part of Master Spockanort's comment. The grand majority of people who watch the video won't put any emphasis on that part, and likely won't even remember the phrase/fan terminology anyway, much less make it an ordeal or quote it anytime down the line (I sure didn't, and I knew how it worked). The event in which it took place has already served it's purpose, and can be explained with or without the phrase, as there is no official "lore" term.

It was more of a generalization to better understand the situation. When there is a lack of official terminology and statements, it causes conflict. For instance, you know what I was seriously dying to bring up when criticism was asked for? Dual Wielding. The ability was attributed to Roxas yet again in this video, and I can certainly argue the opposite based on irrefutable facts that Nomura has established, but I won't because in the grand scheme it doesn't matter, because official revelations and explanations have long since been revealed as to why the concept of Dual Wielding can even exist, and why Roxas and Sora are able to do so. Who's ability it is is relatively unimportant since they explanation as to why they can is there, and they are both part of the same whole. There is no conflict within the story despite which side is taken.

So while I agree calling your opinion silly was a bit harsh, especially since critique was requested and you expressed simple, non offensive dissatisfaction with a fan term due to lack of official terms (with the fans in mind), In the grand scheme of the plot and story, we understand all that transpired and why it transpired. So I believe people who watch the video to educate themselves will still leave knowing what they need to know, with no conflict or falsities. I mean, I think @Tinny said she hated the way he pronounces Kingdom Hearts lol While admittedly it is "weird" (Again, it's the same with or without emphasis,), I think Brandon's voice is great, and I wouldn't call someone silly just because they disliked how someone said something. But I'm sure @Taochan didn't mean anything by it at all, just like you didn't either.


In short, I think the fans will be good guys

Thanks. ;n;

To start, saying something is silly isn't saying you're silly; I wasn't attacking you. Yes, we asked for feedback, obviously not only praise and agreement was asked for. But after your initial comment you were no longer trying to give constructive criticism for things that can be improved on or watched out for with the next video. You were trying to suggest your own preferred terminology that you felt was better suited to the video that has already been released and cannot be edited, which is not helpful and continuous nitpicking over it definitely is silly. No one put personal theories in the video, though it can definitely be agreed that some fan phrasing or even uncommon phrasing was used in an attempt to make some things more concise and understandable given the time constraint.

Except it is personal theories. It also had nothing to do with terminology. I expressed terms shouldn't be given to something that actually lacks one when the subject is a video meant to info fans and catch them up with facts they've missed.
I know the purified thing is to long to explain so I do get not bothering with that. (but I only offered that much since its apparently the only time it was mentioned in any material)
I just don't agree with giving explanation to something that has none just for the sake of having an explanation to give. (especially when the ones debating it with me keep pointing out most fans overlook or don't even care about Soras form)
it just doesn't feel right, like it's misleading.

I'm sorry but no matter how I look at it it feels like an attack since to call opinions silly is to call that person silly as its their expressed thoughts. But I can believe it's not intentional. Everyone has been misinterpreted on the internet at least once and I can see when rereading it I slipped into offering alternatives but I was getting sidetracked from the point I was trying to express.
It's not about the term given but giving one just for the sake of having an explanation when there is none.
Everything else outside the two posts suggesting alternates is criticism/opinions that you asked to receive. So I took (and still do) it as offense intentional or not.

I've not once said your term was silly nor you and your friends continued defense of it. Only that I don't agree with passing it as fact.
Projected shell", "walking heart", "soras heartless body reshaped", plus any other term added since 2008. All of those are good answers to it but not something that should be passed as fact. Offered as possible explanations, definitely, but not fact.

 

[BEASTENDER]

I had to listen to it again after you wrote this. It definitely wasn't meant to be implied that Roxas literally gave his dual-wielding powers to Sora, as obviously that is not the case. That definitely could have used even one more sentence to just make it clear, sob.

After having just watched the video I can safely say that you misunderstood the whole thing.
The only thing about dual wielding attributed to Roxas within the video was that he was the first one to use it within the series.
This is also an irrefutable fact made by the series itself as Roxas did use it first (in Deep Dive as well as in KH 2).
The video didn't speak about where the ability originally came from, on the contrary the next part of the video explicitly states that when Roxas rejoined with Sora, Sora regained Ven's heart and dual-wielding.

Listening closely to the speech in the video I did not find that the team made any error towards this, not to mention that the dual-wielding could be considered a whole topic of its own that was not the focus of this episode.

See, a simple misunderstanding. You're both totally right. The phrasing is 100% correct and not confusing, and Roxas was indeed the first person in the entire series thus far to awaken the ability to wield multiple keyblades. Thank you for pointing that out and clarifying. I can rest easy now lol

Any criticism is absolutely minor and of no true consequence. As I said before, masterfully done. Thanks again for sharing with us.

 

[LinkToAll]

While we have indeed no official confirmation, the explanation given there is the most appropriate one as Ven having an artificial heart of pure light is an important plot point.
Normally when the heart leaves the body the body disappears in some manner (swallowed by darkness or dissolving into light sparkles as seen with Sora, Eraqus and Master Xehanort). Kairi and Ven are the only ones where this doesn't happen when their hearts leave their bodies.:

The explanation is sound, but not proven. I think everyone (myself included) critiquing the video is just trying to say the same thing: if it's not stated in a cutscene/summary/report/interview/cutscene title/quote or anything else officially published, it should not be in the video. Even if it's the simplest explanation, an easy to draw conclusion, or simply an assumption, it's considered speculation if there's nothing to outright prove what you're saying. Yes, the Ven thing sounds legit if you compare it to the Kairi scenario, but if I ask you to prove it, all you can do is compare it to the Kairi scenario; there is no solid evidence. If you give an answer to something that has multiple interpretations, no matter how simple or legitimate it may sound, in the end all it is is speculation if we don't have an official confirmation telling which one is right.

Putting the Ven scenario aside, there were several other bits of speculation that, despite sounding legit, were never actually confirmed, to my knowledge.

I'm sorry if I'm coming off standoffish. In the end it's still KHI's video, and they're free to do with it as they please. My only request is that, moving forward, they only include information that can be cited to a direct source.

— What about Vanitas?
Nomura: Vanitas is different than Xemnas and Ansem; he doesn’t necessarily have a physical form. He reacted to Ventus within Sora, so that’s how he was visible.

Huh, I've never seen that. Can I get the source?

The video isn't just about those who are directly inside Sora's heart (Naminé is in Kairi's for example) and Vanitas does have an indirect connection with Sora (through Ven) as that is what gives him his appearance.

I know. I never said he didn't belong in the video. Though speaking about it, I do have a nitpick on that: why wasn't Terra and Aqua ever properly referenced in the video? (Yes, I know they're included in the "people Sora's going to save" bit, but that's not informative.) I understand including everyone inside Sora, as well as those who were created from him (i.e. Namine and Xion), and including Vanitas, since he looks like him. But Sora and Vanitas are only connected through Ven, whereas Terra and Aqua are connected to Sora directly, even if it's not to the same extent as everyone else. But it was probably just time constraints that cut them out.

 

[Taochan]

@incognito, I don't know why you decided to edit your post like 20 times. I'm going to reply to parts that I've already seen and already had a response to regardless.

There really isn't any right or wrong term because if has no term.

Exactly, it has no actual name. So one that was short and summed it up as bluntly as possible was used. I understand people not liking it and finding it jarring, I do. That is a valid concern and helps us to try to use terminology that is easy for newcomers to understand but won't alienate the people who have been involved in all of the series.

But there was a very legitimate thought process behind its implementation and at the end of the day these videos have to first and foremost accommodate to their target audience, which is what was essentially trying to be explained in the older posts.

Except it is personal theories. It also had nothing to do with terminology. I expressed terms shouldn't be given to something that actually lacks one when the subject is a video meant to info fans and catch them up with facts they've missed.

I know the purified thing is to long to explain so I do get not bothering with that. (but I only offered that much since its apparently the only time it was mentioned in any material)
I just don't agree with giving explanation to something that has none just for the sake of having an explanation to give. (especially when the ones debating it with me keep pointing out most fans overlook or don't even care about Soras form)
it just doesn't feel right, like it's misleading.

It's really really really not a personal theory. Nomura isn't going to hold your hand through everything and he's provided enough evidence to explain the phenomenon in KH1. You should really know that better than anyone, considering how many threads you've made about KH. But, Seph has put it more eloquently than I could hope to so I'm not going to try and will instead point you to his post.

It absolutely has everything to do with terminology. You've acknowledged in your own posts that you know what happened, you just have provided alternative phrases to describe it which are valid but couldn't have worked in the video for various reasons. So really, that is what it boils down to and nothing else. Also, I don't know why you're lumping in anyone else's responses to you with mine to you? I only addressed the situation because it had been a page of discussing what terminology could have been better than "walking heart" and had no end in sight.

I've not once said your term was silly nor you and your friends continued defense of it. Only that I don't agree with passing it as fact.
Projected shell", "walking heart", "soras heartless body reshaped", plus any other term added since 2008. All of those are good answers to it but not something that should be passed as fact. Offered as possible explanations, definitely, but not fact.

I never accused you of that? I think that you harping on this issue derailed the entire thread and after the initial comment was no longer helping to give us actual constructive criticism for future endeavors but is just nitpicking just for the sake of it. I'll reiterate myself here to try to really drive home what I'm getting at: I absolutely understand how hearing the term might throw off a long term fan who is 7 games into the series but for the sake of time and for the sake of at least giving an explanation "walking heart" was deemed the most concise and blunt phrase. Pointing out that it seems awkward because you're not familiar with it, etc, is helpful and lets us know that it was a jarring term so to try to steer clear of future dialogue choices that may require something like that. Trying to suggest alternatives that YOU like, is not helpful and only comes across as you trying to use an opportunity to show how much more you know than other people.

I'm sorry but no matter how I look at it it feels like an attack since to call opinions silly is to call that person as its their expressed thoughts. But I can believe it's not intentional. Everyone has been misinterpreted on the internet at least once. And I can see when rereading it I slipped into offering alternatives but I was getting sidetracked and that isn't the point I'm making. It's not about the term given but giving one for the sake of having an explanation.
Everything else outside the two posts suggesting alternates is criticism/opinions that you asked to receive. So I took (and still do) it as offense but after your reply I don't thin it was meant to come off that way.

An opinion =/= a person; thinking something someone said is silly =/= that person being silly. I get if you took it personally but nothing was meant personally, if it was it would have said "you're silly" or "you're being silly".

It may be silly to many at this point to keep going on about it but when people reply to me I'm gonna answer back. It's just how I am and one of my faults. (the only way I know to bypass it is to use the ignore list like I do with the member Samhain)

Okay, that's literally just your excuse to have the last word on the subject, lol. What you're essentially saying here is that you're telling me that if I don't stop responding to you, you'll keep responding forever so it's my fault for continuing to reply when I should clearly just let you have the last word. This is not a viable way to act on the internet and will cause problems which you absolutely know.

My only request is that, moving forward, they only include information that can be cited to a direct source.

I'd go out on a limb and say that 90-95% of it is straight from the games either visually or from glossary entries/reports/etc and interviews done throughout the time span of the series. There's definitely going to be at least 5-10% of every video that however, is not, but that small portion is well researched. There is so much in this series that will never be explained by Nomura because he's not here to hold our hands. A lot of things that he may not have confirmed are still really obvious, though. And in those situations, where things are very apparent because they have been explained through other means - for instance, using process of elimination or the knowledge we have about similar situations, etc - that's about as good as it's going to get.

These are kept as factual as is humanly possible since our reputation is on the line with these, but when there are things that are pretty obvious to a good chunk of fans and we can explain it in a quick way to help newcomers understand the series, then we can't shy away from it. But obviously KH3 is going to come along and likely "retcon" - I use this word in the most loving way, because I admire Nomura's ability to add lore after the fact and have it almost always fit in - a lot of this so things will change. The series always does. I absolutely understand the cause for concern, though. But believe me, the people involved in this project are in no way interested in spreading personal beliefs around the internet and attempt to mislead people.




But if anyone has any other constructive criticism beyond this issue that has been blown way out or proportion, it is welcome. The process of working on the next video will be starting shortly. Thanks so much guys for not only your support but your insight and feedback. :3

 

[Anagram]

@incognito, I don't know why you decided to edit your post like 20 times. I'm going to reply to parts that I've already seen and already had a response to regardless.

Because I posted it at like 6am when I wasn't fully awake. I also tried to edit it down to being as not offensive as possible which I commonly do if the post is long.
I try to edit it to get what I want to come across does since the first thing I say or the first way I word something is never received well.

Exactly, it has no actual name. So one that was short and summed it up as bluntly as possible was used. I understand people not liking it and finding it jarring, I do. That is a valid concern and helps us to try to use terminology that is easy for newcomers to understand but won't alienate the people who have been involved in all of the series.

But there was a very legitimate thought process behind its implementation and at the end of the day these videos have to first and foremost accommodate to their target audience, which is what was essentially trying to be explained in the older posts.

I do get that I just feel as other members who've posted that if something has no canonical term or explanation that one shouldn't be given. To me it's misleading whether it be of ill intent or just for practicality.

It's really really really not a personal theory. Nomura isn't going to hold your hand through everything and he's provided enough evidence to explain the phenomenon in KH1. You should really know that better than anyone, considering how many threads you've made about KH. But, Seph has put it more eloquently than I could hope to so I'm not going to try and will instead point you to his post.

I don't expect him to hold my hand. I don't expect everything to be explained. But I do expect a personal interruption to be acknowledged as one.
All of the evidence is something that can be taken and interrupted in many ways with each one being just as accurate or possible and even short as the next. We all have a headcanon or terms and that's what they all are.

It absolutely has everything to do with terminology. You've acknowledged in your own posts that you know what happened, you just have provided alternative phrases to describe it which are valid but couldn't have worked in the video for various reasons. So really, that is what it boils down to and nothing else. Also, I don't know why you're lumping in anyone else's responses to you with mine to you? I only addressed the situation because it had been a page of discussing what terminology could have been better than "walking heart" and had no end in sight.

I wasn't lumping other posts into yours but replying to multiple people at once. When I lump posts I put the quotes back to back and have a single response to all of them.

No that is what it turned into. Your turning it into something of terminolgy when I've expressed several times a term shouldn't be given where there isn't one. Unless you count this as some form of terminology debate.

I never accused you of that? I think that you harping on this issue derailed the entire thread and after the initial comment was no longer helping to give us actual constructive criticism for future endeavors but is just nitpicking just for the sake of it. I'll reiterate myself here to try to really drive home what I'm getting at: I absolutely understand how hearing the term might throw off a long term fan who is 7 games into the series but for the sake of time and for the sake of at least giving an explanation "walking heart" was deemed the most concise and blunt phrase. Pointing out that it seems awkward because you're not familiar with it, etc, is helpful and lets us know that it was a jarring term so to try to steer clear of future dialogue choices that may require something like that. Trying to suggest alternatives that YOU like, is not helpful and only comes across as you trying to use an opportunity to show how much more you know than other people.

I didn't say you did. I'm harping because the criticism I gave was met with so much force. Like it wasn't wanted. I slipped up offering terms of my own I know that but I'll say it as many times as I have to. My initial problem and what I'm trying to advocate now is the use of a term for something that lacks one. Or giving an answer for the sake of having one to give.

I don't see how it's derailed much. Aside from me and those responding to me you still got replies. If they are truly derailing then just delete everything of mine in the thred. I know mods have this power and if you think it'll help then delete all of it. The points of both sides have been made repeatedly so deleting them wont hurt now.

Okay, that's literally just your excuse to have the last word on the subject, lol. What you're essentially saying here is that you're telling me that if I don't stop responding to you, you'll keep responding forever so it's my fault for continuing to reply when I should clearly just let you have the last word. This is not a viable way to act on the internet and will cause problems which you absolutely know.

Think clearly on that one. I edited it for a reason because I saw that. You responding to it after I realized it and took it out serves no purpose other than to tell others I'm throwing out excuses which also isn't a viable way to act on the internet.
You also know that I edit my posts several times after posting because things like that or things I feel will be mistaken because it is of my lesser nature or blunt ways and I try to avoid it.
Last word doesnt exist on the internet. What I was trying to get across was that I obviously can't let it go at this point, I've tried. (unless there is some sort of ignore list option for threads? the ignore list is how I ignore other things I can't let go like Samhain's "threads/posts")

 

[Sephiroth0812]

The explanation is sound, but not proven. I think everyone (myself included) critiquing the video is just trying to say the same thing: if it's not stated in a cutscene/summary/report/interview/cutscene title/quote or anything else officially published, it should not be in the video. Even if it's the simplest explanation, an easy to draw conclusion, or simply an assumption, it's considered speculation if there's nothing to outright prove what you're saying. Yes, the Ven thing sounds legit if you compare it to the Kairi scenario, but if I ask you to prove it, all you can do is compare it to the Kairi scenario; there is no solid evidence. If you give an answer to something that has multiple interpretations, no matter how simple or legitimate it may sound, in the end all it is is speculation if we don't have an official confirmation telling which one is right.

Putting the Ven scenario aside, there were several other bits of speculation that, despite sounding legit, were never actually confirmed, to my knowledge.

I'm sorry if I'm coming off standoffish. In the end it's still KHI's video, and they're free to do with it as they please. My only request is that, moving forward, they only include information that can be cited to a direct source.

That's the thing though, it doesn't need to be always explicitly "stated" as Nomura rarely does that anyways. Things are often kept vague and can only be pieced together by reading interviews and watching visual cues in tandem.
As Taochan says in her statement below, some things are just shown visually withhin the games themselves.
For example, it is never outright stated that the comatose Ventus opened a Door to Light in the final episode to lead Aqua to the Land of Departure, but you can see by the form of the gate he opens (it is the same as the light gate Sora and Riku go through at the end of KH 2) that it is a Door of Light.
It is not stated directly, but can be easily deduced from visual context of the whole series.

For that Ven scenario though you can not only compare it to Kairi's scenario though, but to all the other people who we have seen losing their heart throughout the whole series. From the random guy in the first cutscene in Traverse Town in KH 1, over Sora stabbing himself, Eraqus falling into Terra and MX removing his own heart to send it into Terra.

I get where you're coming from though as it is a murky issue, yet when looking at the intended audience of the video, most of the more casual fans prefer a sound explanation to such plot points and simply saying "it isn't explained yet" or "there is no official explanation as of now" is often met with disdain despite it being the truth.
And I do remember that in the past when BBS was still fresh there were many threads that asked about why Ven's body didn't disappear like the others who lost their hearts and it didn't take long until someone made the connection with Kairi's situation in KH 1.
Even more so, many of the fans outside Japan (not only casuals, but also those who aren't deeply invested in fan forums like KHInsider or KH13) are not even aware that these Ultimanias and Nomura-interviews that clear up so much even exist. It's one of the principal weaknesses of the KH series' storytelling as a whole that much of the crucial information isn't available in the primary medium.


Instead of speculation I prefer to call it interpretation, as in things where no official confirmation exists, all people do is working with visual cues the games themselves give and then try and connect them to other cases from the series that are already confirmed.

Huh, I've never seen that. Can I get the source?



I know. I never said he didn't belong in the video. Though speaking about it, I do have a nitpick on that: why wasn't Terra and Aqua ever properly referenced in the video? (Yes, I know they're included in the "people Sora's going to save" bit, but that's not informative.) I understand including everyone inside Sora, as well as those who were created from him (i.e. Namine and Xion), and including Vanitas, since he looks like him. But Sora and Vanitas are only connected through Ven, whereas Terra and Aqua are connected to Sora directly, even if it's not to the same extent as everyone else. But it was probably just time constraints that cut them out.

The source is in the title of the quote-box: "Famitsu interview, May 12, 2012 (after release of the Ultimania)"
Nomura stated this in an interview with the japanese gaming magazine Famitsu which was made shortly after the release of the Ultimania.
Besides the Ultimania interviews themselves, the Famitsu ones also often contain important information.

If I had to make a wild guess Vanitas looking like Sora was probably one of the main reasons why he was even included, to explain why he looks like Sora as that is still something many of the more casual fans don't get.
Vanitas is indeed only indirectly connected to Sora through Ven, although one may also argue that Vanitas' creation was what ultimatively caused the deep connection between Ven and Sora to be created in the first place while the second time Ven's heart was destroyed was entirely Vanitas' fault, which is what ultimatively led to Roxas looking like Ven because of the presence of Ven's damaged heart.
So, despite not being directly connected to Sora nor being on his "to save"-list, Vanitas has a much bigger influence on Sora, Roxas and Ven than both Aqua and Terra.
Furthermore, Aqua and Terra are more or less "normal" beings who are connected to Sora that do not require as much attention as the "special" entities all connected to Sora to explain.
Roxas, Xion, Naminé and Vanitas are all somewhat "special" entities, even Ven counts to a degree because of his artificial pure heart.

Time constraints or just not to overload the video with information.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

Incognito, if you wish to continue this discussion about what was happening with Sora's body and heart, you are absolutely free to do so in another thread but this is a subject that needs to be dropped.

There are simple facts that can be taken from the event Sora experiences:

1) He becomes a Heartless
2) His body and soul become Roxas
3) Kairi purifies the darkness around Sora's heart, thus returning him to a human form
4) Despite having a human form, his body and soul were still Roxas
6) He was still an existence of a heart but with a physical form that was not his original body and Xemnas calls him "incomplete" and "not whole", citing the fact he is missing his body who is currently at that time a new-born Roxas

Those are facts that we know from interviews, watching the scenes, and just from knowing how the Nobody-Heartless process works. We have seen this happen with SoD who was a heart with no body (specifically cited by Young Xehanort in KH3D).

There is nothing about this interpretation that is personal. Absolutely all of it has been pulled from canon. The only thing "personal" about it was the use of "walking heart", which we have repeatedly acknowledged as a term that probably could have been changed but for the sake of time, we decided to stick to.

Let's drop it now. There are so many other things in this video worth discussing.

 

[LightUpTheSky452]

Yay! Great video! Absolutely great! And it definitely made my day to watch it, seeing as how Sora's my favorite character and this has always been one of my favorite aspects of the series. Great job, everyone! Great job!

Just a few nitpicks, though:

"...being the only person to ever return to his human form after being a Nobody." Is it just me, or should that be "Heartless" there instead of "Nobody"? Otherwise, it sounds like Sora was Roxas--and yes, I know that Roxas housed what was originally Sora's body and soul for a while, but that sentence seems to imply that Sora and Roxas are exactly the same, and that Roxas was carrying around Sora's will, and remembering everything about him or something--and I don't think that's what you guys meant at all.

I mean, I know that Sora reassimilates with Roxas at the beginning of KHII, and therefore gets those parts back at that time, but Kairi and Naminé also do that same thing. So in that case, Sora is certainly not the only person to return to his (true) human form, after being a "Nobody" or whatever. Granted, Naminé's a special case--and she's not exactly Kairi, and we really don't know how she was made or where she came from at all--but I feel like still saying that sentence like this is really, really misleading; "Heartless" makes much more sense to me, because that is what Sora turned into and came back from.

Though... I guess with that, that could also be wrong, seeing as how Xehanort did the same thing, too. But didn't Xehanort only get back a physical appearance by possessing Riku to do so? In that instance, saying Sora's the only person to ever return to his (true) human form after being a Heartless makes more sense to me then what's said in the video, but that's just my opinion.

I think there might be another thing like that in this video--and the last one--that seems wrong to me, too. But... I think it's more for how the sentences are structured. Like, besides the Heartless/Nobody instance listed above (if I'm even right about that), I don't think you've gotten anything wrong at all. Rather, it's probably just my fault because I might be misinterpreting what the phrases mean, just by how they're stated in the video or something? IDK.

Oh, one other thing... I know that Xion was initially created by the memories that Xemnas sampled of Sora's during KHIFM, but didn't she also absorb the leaked memories of Kairi that Naminé let loose during CoM, and that's why she had to return to Sora at the end of Days?

And isn't it even hinted at that it's moreso for those memories--through Sora himself, as Xemnas put it--that begins shaping "it" (Xion) into the dark haired version of Kairi that most people seem to see when they look at her? If so, it might have been important to mention those things in the video (and even why it was that Roxas had to return to Sora), but that's the only nitpick I can have, really. =)

Great job, guys, and I can't wait to see more! These videos are such a wonder to behold: I can tell you that much right now, and I can't wait for next month's!

And I'm SO glad that the casual fans--through this video--might finally realize that Sora was used as a conduit to create Naminé, and just why it is that Sora and Vanitas look alike: I know most casual fans usually don't realize these things, so you've probably saved them a great headache when it's perhaps addressed in KHIII. LOL.

Edit: Now that I think about it, if you guys want to--and have the time or inclination to--it might be cool to have a video that talks about the people that are connected to Kairi. Granted, that might be a bit redundant after this video (as it all ready touched on some of the cases here), but I'd love to see someone explain how Xion is "Kairi as Sora remembers her"--like Naminé said in Days, even though she was of course created from Sora's memories--because most people really seem to overlook that important fact.

Other things, too--like how Kairi's connected to Aqua, and how that led to her (possibly) getting Destiny's Embrace through the "delivery boy principle" with Riku in KHII--would also be neat and helpful, I think

Or heck: even a video that just talks about Kairi's importance to the series at all, even though she's usually not actively doing things in it, would also be wonderful--seeing as how most people don't seem to see the important weight of her character throughout this saga, and just what it can mean for the future, like in KHIII.

Thanks a bunch for even considering this. Keep up the fantastic work, guys! ^_^

 

[AzuraJae]

Wait, so after he was restored by Kairi, Sora didn't have a body? So literally a 'walking heart'? So his body (and Ventus' heart) went to Roxas and he was just clinging on to humanity given to him by Kairi? So from the end(ish) of KH1 and until the beginning of KH2 when Roxas merged with Sora, he didn't have a body? I don't understand, can someone please explain?

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

Wait, so after he was restored by Kairi, Sora didn't have a body? So literally a 'walking heart'? So his body (and Ventus' heart) went to Roxas and he was just clinging on to humanity given to him by Kairi? So from the end(ish) of KH1 and until the beginning of KH2 when Roxas merged with Sora, he didn't have a body? I don't understand, can someone please explain?

He had a human/physical form but no "Body" and "Soul" because Roxas had those parts. Nomura has left it vague as to the details of how this was possible.

 

[AzuraJae]

He had a human/physical form but no "Body" and "Soul" because Roxas had those parts. Nomura has left it vague as to the details of how this was possible.

Oh, I see. So Sora didn't have a body (or soul) in a sense in the duration where Roxas became active. Thanks for explaining!
It is vauge and a bit weird though. Shouldn't it have strained Sora to an extent for having Roxas and Xion (I think) both active while in CoM. Maybe that's the reason why his memories were supposedly so easy to manipulate. Well, I hope Noruma decides to expand on this, it's a little confusing

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Oh, I see. So Sora didn't have a body (or soul) in a sense in the duration where Roxas became active. Thanks for explaining!
It is vauge and a bit weird though. Shouldn't it have strained Sora to an extent for having Roxas and Xion (I think) both active while in CoM. Maybe that's the reason why his memories were supposedly so easy to manipulate. Well, I hope Noruma decides to expand on this, it's a little confusing

In fact it didn't "strain" Sora at all. They co-existed perfectly fine until Naminé started messing with his memories, which is actually a side-effect of how she was created as stated in the video.
The reason why she could manipulate Sora's memories is because of how Naminé was created, it didn't have anything to do with Roxas or Xion.

The whole mess however truly started after Naminé had made a mess out of Sora's memories.
The memories sampled by Xemnas gave Xion a basic, rudimentary way to function, but once Sora's main chain of memories was broken due to Naminé and the events in CoM, Xion's inherent ability to absorb "loose" memories from Sora kicked and she proceeded to absorb more and more loose memories from Sora through his connection with Roxas.
Due to that, Roxas suddenly also had memories of Sora (that's why he starts to have these dreams/visions during Days after CoM was finished) and these loose memories where constantly shuffled between him and Xion.

All this is also the primary reason why both Xion and Roxas had to return to Sora at all.
Because so many memories of Sora were spread out between Roxas and Xion, Naminé was unable to piece them back together and separating Sora's loose memories from Roxas' and Xion's own memories (which were used to have their own hearts grow and nutured) would have taken too much time.
When DiZ in KH 2 speaks about "half of Sora's power" he is referring to all the loose memories of Sora that lay within Roxas.

Or in short: Had Xemnas & co. not created Xion with that memory absorb ability and had Naminé never messed with Sora's memory, Roxas would not have needed to "return" to Sora.