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The Organization of COM (Looong post)



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Ansem22

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Now, we all should know that Vexen, Larxene, Lexaeus, Zexion, and Marluxia apparently kicked their respective buckets in COM. But I've been looking through several Nomura interviews and junk, and I've come to the conclusion that these members might show up in KH2 yet. Here is a compilation of facts and explinations on what they need provided by me, "Professor" Ansem22.

POINT ONE: CHARACTERS OF COM

When asked about characters...
Nomura: There are characters in KHII that make their first appearances in the GBA game, but please wait for additional news releases for information on them.

Ansem22: Basically, Nomura is saying that characters of KHII first appear in COM and that news will be released on them. The unknowns from COM were among the first to have news released on them, so I assume that all COM unknowns, Namine, and DiZ are who he speaks of.

POINT TWO: THE STORYLINE SEPERATION

1UP: We saw on the video, there's the character named Axel in Chain of Memories, and he also appears in the Kingdom Hearts 2 trailer. Are there some things in Chain of Memories that you'll need to see or learn about to understand Kingdom Hearts 2?

Nomura: First of all, you know that Chain of Memories is the direct sequel to Kingdom Hearts, and Kingdom Hearts 2 is the direct sequel to Chain of Memories. So there are very tight links between each one, but at the same time, we tried to separate the storylines so someone playing Kingdom Hearts 2 doesn't necessarily need to play Chain of Memories, and someone playing Chain of Memories doesn't have to play Kingdom Hearts as well.

Ansem22: This one's interesting. Nomura says they tried to "seperate the storylines" so that COM and KH2 can be played individually. Perhaps that's the reason for the Org members' "deaths" in COM, to seperate the storylines and have them finished off in COM. If they were left alive, it would make COM and KH2 more connected and the storylines for both games were needed to be played.

POINT THREE: TIME OF PRODUCTION

GMR: Why did you guys decide to make a Kingdom Hearts game for GBA? Why not tell this entire story within the context of Kingdom Hearts II?

Tetsuya Nomura: The story for Kingdom Hearts II already existed when we worked on the original Kingdom Hearts. At the time, the story for Chain of Memories wasn't concrete. Kingdom Hearts II continues where we left off in the original, but a year later. Initially, we weren't planning on telling the story of that one "blank" year, but the more we started disscussing the GBA version, the more we thought it would be to do so in Chain of Memories.

Ansem22: KH2 was planned out before COM was invented, and COM's story was originally not going to be told. Linking this to Nomura confirming 13 Org. members, what can we assume? The 5 members couldn't have died in the "blank" year, because the blank year wasn't going to be told and as a result KH2 would not have 13 members.

POINT FOUR: AXEL AND HIS ROLE

GMR: Who is Axel and what is his part in Chain of Memories? He is also in the trailer for Kingdom Hearts II; He must play a significant role.

TN: As you can see in the assets we have released, he is one of the guys who belongs in the group wearing the long black cloaks. His role and purpose hold the key to Kingdom Hearts II and Chain of Memories, so I cannot discuss details at this time. However, as one of the "members" of the group, Axel's role "links" the two games, and he appears fairly early in the game.

Ansem22: Now, Nomura says that Axel's purpose hold the key to KH2 and COM, his purpose being his own hidden agenda. But, contrary to what some people say, Nomura does NOT say that Axel himself links the two games. Nomura says that Axel's role as a "member" of the group links the two games. The Organization itself links COM and KH2, not Axel. He holds the key, not the link.

POINT FIVE: X MARKS THE SPOT

Nomura says the "X" in the members' names are important. If it's that important, why waste 5 of the members with "X" in their names? This also means that Riku and Mickey can NOT join the Organization. They are not Nobodies and they don't have X in their names. If BHK has an X in his name, then he can join and be the Thirteenth member. We'll just have to see.

POINT SIX: "THE CHOSEN ONES"

In a translated interview with Daisuke Watanabe, he says that they had decided "how many members of the Organization were going to be in COM". That means they decided on 6, and then most likely chose which members they'd feature (I'll bet Axel was an instant choice for obvious reasons)

POINT SEVEN: THE ELEMENTS

Why would they have Axel, the fire element member, in KH2 but not the agents who use the other basic elements (ice, thunder, etc.)? As you know, all element-users have hair that match the element in some fashion (Axel included, he has flame-style hair). They had to have invented the other unknowns who use elements along with Axel if they had the hairstyle thing in mind. Plus, there may be a purpose to the elements. Why was the leader of Castle Oblivion, Marluxia, a flower-element user? Perhaps he appears in KH2 and there's a reason for that (my guess is that you fight each unknown in a world that in some fashion matches their element. An example is the unknown who has been seen in the Underworld may be Larxene. Not only is the body shape the same, but Olympus Colliseum is the world where you first learned Thunder in KH, plus you most likely learn the move "Zues' Thunder" there in KH2)

POINT EIGHT: THE 3D MODELS

As you know, Square has already shown 3D models for the COM members. For example, here's Zexion
http://img31.echo.cx/img31/200/zexionextract9np.jpg
They look exactly like they would on PS2. Axel looks 100% like he does in the screenshots of KH2, since that's his PS2 CG model! And the 3D end credit pictures from COM do NOT look PS2-style. They are 3D, but if you stop and look you'll see that it's a different type of 3D than the CG models of the unknowns. Compare the credits Zexion to the PS2-style Zexion
http://sprites.fireball20xl.com/OS/Square/Sheets/rrend.png
Nowhere NEAR as detailed as the 3D model.

POINT NINE: PERSONALITIES

Somebody on a different website brought up that "We know more about characters like Axel and Larxenes' personalities than we do Ansem's and Ansem is bound to return in some way, shape or form in KH2". Why would Square waste developed characters in COM, which is just a "bridge" for KH and KH2? Plus, Nomura says that the Org. Members of COM are "introduced" in an interview with him in the COM Ultimania. Why say "introduced" unless they are going to be back?

POINT TEN: DEATHS

If there's one thing everyone should know about a villain, it's that they usually come back! Examples: Ansem died very obviously in KH and everyone assumed he was gone forever. But now that we know he's alive, people say otherwise. What makes this any different? The unknowns might LOOK like they met obvious demises, but that doesn't stop them from coming back the next game! Sephiroth from FF7 died obviously and now he's apparently back in Advent Children. Heck, Rufus Shinra of FF7 seemed to perish in an explosion, but he's alive and cloaked in a wheelchair in Advent Children!

POINT ELEVEN: LACK OF INFO ON "NOBODIES"

In the COM Ultimania guide, it says that "since the Organization never say 'die' and use terms like 'erase', 'destroy', and 'dissapear', could it be that they are not human?" Do we really know enough about the Nobodies to assume that they can die normally?

POINT TWELVE: REPLACEMENTS DON'T COME EASILY!

Some say that the dead members can be replaced. That could be true for Marluxia and Larxene, since they were the most recent members. But it is clear in COM that the number rankings are the number of which the member joined, not a rank of power. Vexen, Lexaeus, and Zexion are #4, 5, and 6 and it says that "they have been in the group since it's inception". If they die, putting somebody else as #4, 5, and 6 would be lying, they would actually be #13, #14, and #15 joining. Plus, why would Nomura invent characters for COM, when all the other characters were either from KH or pre-existed for KH2?

POINT THIRTEEN: THE 13TH ORDER

Nomura has confirmed that there are 13 members of the Organization. Since KH2 is the game that the Org plays the most prime role, and since KH2 was planned before COM (thus the Org. being planned for KH2 first), there HAS to be 13 members in it. No 13 in KH2=RUINS THE 13 PUN! (There's been 13 of everything already; worlds, Ansem Reports, letters in "Kingdom Hearts", points in Deep Dive, and even points in this essay)

That's it. Post what you think of my essay. If you agree or disagree with anything I have said, please say why. Thank you!
 
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UsagiOkami

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woah....you know that all makes a lot of sense! i agree with everything there, except the remark regarding advent children, we don't know if that is president rufus, we only suspect that it is based upon current info, and sephiroth does return, i have a picture.
 

Raz

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This is really insightful! I loved it! It explains an awful lot! thnx!
 

Chihiro

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WOW this is the best layed out theory I have ever read!!! This makes so much sense! Thanks for clearing this up for those people out there who just don't get it sometimes...I've been complaining about some of these points ever since CoM came out, but peope refuse to listen! HOpefully they listen to you!
 

KeybladeShadow88

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man, where is KL, he needs to see this one, i like it alot, although I had already believed that most ( if not all ) the org. would be back ( especially zexion because HE DIDN'T REALLY DIE )
 

Waterkeeper

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Good job, for the most part...

1) <sarcasm>Thank you so much for somehow spoiling bits of Advent Children for me.</sarcasm>

2) It was never confirmed that you NEED an X in your name to join The Organization. DiZ has no X and he is their Superior, perhaps ranked #1 but that is speculation.

3) There are only 12 points in Deep Dive. It goes from 13 to 2.

4) I thought that Axel's weapons were referred to as the WIND and Fire Wheels. In the TGS03 trailer for KH2, when Axel and the BHK face off: right before the ring of fire encircles the two, you see the BHK struggling against a powerful wind. Zexion didn't necessarily have an "element" and apparently, neither does DiZ.

Otherwise I agree entirely.
 

oathion

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i love it. it makes absolute sense! but i'm confused, i wonder why the org. we see in CoM have an x in their names. also, they're six org. members in CoM right? and there are originally 13, so i'm going to agree with Ansem 22, but just wondering -- who's the other seven org. members?
 

Ansem22

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"who's the other seven org. members?"

At this point, they are unknown. The Enigmatic Man is among them, but that's all we know right now.

The other seven will be unveiled in KH2. (And they will also have "X"s in their names, according to Nomura, this seems to be an Organization tradition)
 

Dark Niwa

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I agree completely with your theory. I just don't wanna beilieve that Zexion is dead. He seemed interesting...

I think that riku and mikey could be named
Mikey X and Riku X (how cheesy)
 

Eald'narche

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I would assume that the reason DiZ doesn't have an X in his name is it is simply something he made up to use when meeting Riku, rather than his true name within the Organization. The fact that it is supposed to have a signifcance makes this less likely, but perhaps when one joins the organization they take on a new name which includes an X; that would make Riku and Mickey joining much more possible.
 
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