What's new

Welcome to Kingdom Hearts Insider

Join us now to get access to all our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, and so, so much more. It's also quick and totally free, so what are you waiting for?

Ask question

Ask Questions and Get Answers from Our Community

Ask a Mod

Ask Questions from your staff

Contact Staff

If you need additional information or have a concern please contact us.

  • Hello everybody! We have tons of new awards for the new year that can be requested through our Awards System thanks to Antifa Lockhart! Some are limited-time awards so go claim them before they are gone forever...

    CLICK HERE FOR AWARDS

The Nature of the Elements in KH



REGISTER TO REMOVE ADS
Status
Not open for further replies.

Mr_Burble

New member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
79
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
29
Now, for a while now, I've always believed that an element is simply a tool, but with it's own natural with it's good and bad sides. Kh seems to show this, though not on Light's bad side as of yet. Now, let's review here of the nature of each element.

Light and Darkness logically aren't really competitors as people may think. They really seem to act as siblings, twins you may say. They are very complementary. Darkness is where Light isn’t and vise-versa. They can outshine or overshadow one another. But in the end, they end up switching spots for each other, they are equals. Mickey had also noted that the world is made of Darkness and Light and that they cannot be separate.

Now do not be mislead. Good and Evil are not siblings, they are competitors. You cannot use both, but you can be inbetween. But you’ll more or less end up of one side, even by a little bit. So, why has it been that all these years that Darkness has been seen as an evil thing? Well, it comes from the fear of the unknown. What man does not know, he fears and labels it.

Nothingness is the absence of both. However, it too is not of any nature.

Darkness: Darkness on it’s bad side contains many unpleasant things. Heartless may be formed from what a person has hide from himself or others. These may include hate, anger, a deceptive personality, etc. Which would logically be what makes a Heartless and it’s element. Sin that someone has hidden from others and lies.

However, this does not mean that Darkness doesn’t have another nature to it. Riku first experience Darkness and turn into an antagonist. However, after the incident with Xehanort’s heartless he had become lost. The nature of Darkness allowed him to become lost further, only to for him to find himself. To know who he is, what he wants and why he was the way he was before.

He did Blind fold himself, after all. To hide the truth from himself. Yet, his blindness allowed him to look past what he could before and look deeper into himself. He was redeemed and used the power of Darkness for good.

Light: We all know of the nature of Light. That it has the ability to reveal and show things that Darkness could not. However, although not shown in KH as of yet, too much Light can blind you. Light on it’s bad side shows a Judgmental nature, a nature of doing wrong and thinking you’re right and the God scenerio. Take Light Yagami for example (Though he did not use light as an element, he pretty much personified it). The means were good, but they did not justify the ends. He proclaimed himself as a God, doing wrong for a right result.

I’m kinda tired right now, so if you have any other examples, please post them.

Nothingness: The nature of Nothing is truly a bizarre one. It is empty, yet it holds within itself limitless potential. Like how someone can start out with no money and gain a large amount or a small amount. Another thing about Nothing is that it is a concept of self discovery.

Nobodies had wanted Kingdom Hearts to regain their lost hearts so that they could feel emotion again. Which brings me to another thought about the nature of nothing. Alternate forms of media (Like the CoM manga) state that they do have hearts, but they are too uncertain to realize it themselves. Which leans more so on the concept of self discovery. Nothing is also empty, but it is something. No matter how you look at it, you are stating Nothing as a noun. Which could mean that Nothing is something (It's a paradox, but not an oxymoron), but it doesn't seem to realize it itself.

Nothing could be seen as more neutral as the others, but again they had good means, but the ends were not justifiable. The natuel of Nothing is that is that even as empty as it is, it seeks to be full of something (again, the concept of self discovery applies here).

Feel free to agree or disagree if you like. ^_^b

Altered for correction. Each bold will be an update and/or correction
 
Last edited:

Anagram

Banned
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
5,681
Reaction score
9
Points
0
This is pretty good, your one of the few besides me who thinks light can be a enemy.
I just want to know how nothingness can have a nature.

It's nothingness the lack of anything.
Add something about twilight.

I like your yin-yang thread.
 

Iridium

Snobby Von PersnicketyBitch
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
5,985
Reaction score
0
Points
38
Awards
5
Location
Tokyo-3
Nothingness is somewhat more of a mystery than the thread says it is, Xemnas can control it to make his aerial blades and such, it's like a form of pure energy.

Hard to describe but that's what it seems like.

Twilight is even more of a mystery but we know that someone can be fighting for the light (riku) and be enbodied by the twilight (WtD).
 

Anagram

Banned
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
5,681
Reaction score
9
Points
0
Nothingness is somewhat more of a mystery than the thread says it is, Xemnas can control it to make his aerial blades and such, it's like a form of pure energy.

Hard to describe but that's what it seems like.

Twilight is even more of a mystery but we know that someone can be fighting for the light (riku) and be enbodied by the twilight (WtD).

Twilight's nature may depend on the person.
Cause twilight can be someone going from one to the other or simply stuck inbetween.

Time to log off.
 

Mr_Burble

New member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
79
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
29
I was going to post the Twilight, but my sis rushed my off my computer. Thus, I'll add that when I get the time. Right now I'm on a rather slow PC.
 

Gabo

The boy who blocked his own shot
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
3,042
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Warwack
I don't agree.
Dark cannnot exist without Light.
Evil can not exist without Good.

No, I am not saying Light is automatically good or dark is automatically evil.
I feel light can be any enemy.
Hell, we already learned it can be via COM.


Nobodies had wanted Kingdom Hearts to discover who they truly were, but failed. While Roxas surpassed the other members of Organization XIII and reunited with Sora. All in all, every Nobody wanted to know about his or herself. Xemnas wanted his original memories before he was Ansem’s apprentice.
Wrong. Nobodies could remember what they truly were, thus they were able to imitate emotions.
It was because they knew who they were, did they seek the way to return whole.

Save Xemnas and Roxas, who both had memory issues.


Also, Xemnas was looking for his memories prior to being an apprentice?
IDR this.
 

Mr_Burble

New member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
79
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
29
I don't agree.
Dark cannnot exist without Light.
Evil can not exist without Good.

No, I am not saying Light is automatically good or dark is automatically evil.
I feel light can be any enemy.
Hell, we already learned it can be via COM.



Wrong. Nobodies could remember what they truly were, thus they were able to imitate emotions.
It was because they knew who they were, did they seek the way to return whole.

Save Xemnas and Roxas, who both had memory issues.


Also, Xemnas was looking for his memories prior to being an apprentice?
IDR this.

Forgive me for any screw ups. I was rushed off. But I beleive FM stated it. As in the explanation of why Namine was needed, the purpose of the Room of Sleep, etc.

But, I think they didn't exactly remember whom they were. Like in Roxas' case. He could only remember who Sora was when Sora was regaining his memories.

Also, I know Evil cannot exist without Good. But they tend to conflict. They grind when they was each other. While Light and Darkness on the other hand move smoothly together like gears. Like a shadow moving amougst bright light or the sun setting and rising.
 

Gabo

The boy who blocked his own shot
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
3,042
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Warwack
But, I think they didn't exactly remember whom they were. Like in Roxas' case. He could only remember who Sora was when Sora was regaining his memories.
Roxas wasn't the same as the rest.
He and Namine didn't have memories of their past selves.
Thats one of the things that made them special.

The others did remember.
Everything.
 

Mr_Burble

New member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
79
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
29
Roxas wasn't the same as the rest.
He and Namine didn't have memories of their past selves.
Thats one of the things that made them special.

The others did remember.
Everything.

Do you have any quotes that stated that they knew? I know Saiz said they remembered what it's like to have hearts, but I don't know if that means they remember everything.
 

Iridium

Snobby Von PersnicketyBitch
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
5,985
Reaction score
0
Points
38
Awards
5
Location
Tokyo-3
Well they remember what it was like to have hearts, thus simulating emotions. If they remember what emotions are they would most likely remember their past lives, save Xemnas, Roxas and Namine of course.
 

Gabo

The boy who blocked his own shot
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
3,042
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Warwack
Do you have any quotes that stated that they knew? I know Saiz said they remembered what it's like to have hearts, but I don't know if that means they remember everything.
~Points at Xemnas and his memories of being an apprentice~
~Points at Xigbar and his knowledge of those other keyblade wielders as well as Xehanort being taken in by AtW~
~Points at Zexion and his conversation with Xigbar in FM~
Those are the first things I could think of
 

Mr_Burble

New member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
79
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
29
~Points at Xemnas and his memories of being an apprentice~
~Points at Xigbar and his knowledge of those other keyblade wielders as well as Xehanort being taken in by AtW~
~Points at Zexion and his conversation with Xigbar in FM~
Those are the first things I could think of

Good point. Though, I think they may be special cases. Well, I'll make an alteration to my original post.

Thanks.
 

Raz

i'm nobody
Staff member
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
9,157
Reaction score
175
Points
65
Awards
8
Age
27
Location
Midwest
I totally agree. Riku is good, but uses Darkness. As for light being used for evil, at the beginning of Reverse/Rebirth and when Zexion takes the form of Sora, Riku seems to be trapped and sometimes hurt by the light.
 

DaisyDuck

New member
Joined
Jan 30, 2008
Messages
238
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Good and Evil in KH seem to be largely based on the desires and ambitions of the individual.

As for the tendancy for Darkness to be evil, it is implied that Darkness will yeild a lot of power very quickly when compared to Light but is ultimately much more difficult to truely master.

Light is generally considered to be good, possibly because it takes more time and effort gain power, so one learns to be more responsible with that power. That's not to say once that power has been gained it cannot be misused. It can.

Nothingness is neither good nor evil, light or dark, yet it is another form of energy. The way Xemnas uses it makes me think it could be comparable to Ether since it can be used in many different ways.

The Nothing isn't really a means of self dicovery, it's more like the only power Nobodies have at their disposal. Most of them do remember who they were but they don't remember everything. Axel said as much to Sora. They remember most things about who they are, but their most precious memories are locked in their hearts and out of their reach. I believe that was a the orginal reason they were ate Castle Oblivion, to study how memory affects the heart and to find out if there might be a way to regain their hearts using memory.
 

Anagram

Banned
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
5,681
Reaction score
9
Points
0
Light and Dark in kh can be used for good or evil like any other element, fire, water-ice, wind etc.
It all depends on the weilder.
 

Mr_Burble

New member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
79
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
29
Light and Dark in kh can be used for good or evil like any other element, fire, water-ice, wind etc.
It all depends on the weilder.

Right.

Now, as for the nature of Twilight, it's hard to tell it's exact Nature. It could be the exact opposite as the nature of Nothing (As it being full, connected, all0knowing one could say). I see it like this. Nothingness lacks anything, yet it has limitless potential. While Twilight has everything, but because it's full, it no longer has any potential.
 

Anagram

Banned
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
5,681
Reaction score
9
Points
0
Right.

Now, as for the nature of Twilight, it's hard to tell it's exact Nature. It could be the exact opposite as the nature of Nothing (As it being full, connected, all0knowing one could say). I see it like this. Nothingness lacks anything, yet it has limitless potential. While Twilight has everything, but because it's full, it no longer has any potential.

I thought twilight depends on the person, cause riku for one on the twilight path went from dark to light.

So I figure that it depends how close one is to either side.
 

Mr_Burble

New member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
79
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
29
I thought twilight depends on the person, cause riku for one on the twilight path went from dark to light.

So I figure that it depends how close one is to either side.

It could be. Though, Twilight seems to be like the essence of everything since the world is made of darkness and light. I beleive you're right when you say it could sway. Like when Diz asked Riku if he was following the path to dusk, but Riku replied he'd follow the road to the twilight. I guess that meant that he was going to riase and ultimately better himself.

Speaking as the sun rises up, he would rise up as well. Though Dusk could be another variation. I'm not sure as of yet. But, I guess the Twilight path is what made Riku have better control of darkness.
 

Anagram

Banned
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
5,681
Reaction score
9
Points
0
It could be. Though, Twilight seems to be like the essence of everything since the world is made of darkness and light. I beleive you're right when you say it could sway. Like when Diz asked Riku if he was following the path to dusk, but Riku replied he'd follow the road to the twilight. I guess that meant that he was going to riase and ultimately better himself.

Speaking as the sun rises up, he would rise up as well. Though Dusk could be another variation. I'm not sure as of yet. But, I guess the Twilight path is what made Riku have better control of darkness.

DIZ: which path will you take? the path to light or the path to darkness?
Riku: niether i'm taking the middle road.
Diz: the middle road to nightfall..
riku: no the path to dawn.

Thats what makes me think twilight depends on the person.
taking the twilight to dawn is going dark to light and taking the middle path to nightfall is opposite.

So the natures changes down either path.
But dawn and dusk are both twilight so everybody starts and ends at different places.

It might also be possible to not go either way, just stay still.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
shape1
shape2
shape3
shape4
shape5
shape6
Top