• We have brought back Future of KINGDOM HEARTS as our main Kingdom Hearts section. Discuss any projects including Phase 2 developments, the rumored Disney Plus series, all TWEWY-related news, theories about the future of Kingdom Hearts, and any general topics in this section. For anything related to Kingdom Hearts Memory of Melody, please discuss it in the KINGDOM HEARTS Memory of Melody section.
  • Although unrelated to Kingdom Hearts, we are aware that there might be fans of The Last of Us on our forums. We ask that you please keep all spoilers for The Last of Us 2 spoiler-tagged. Any untagged spoilers will result in a temporary ban from the site.

The Master of Master's True Identity *SPOILERS*



REGISTER TO REMOVE ADS

Xickin

Traitor of KHInsider.com
Joined
Mar 28, 2011
Messages
2,114
Awards
16
Age
25
Location
Ontario, Canada
  • Nothing's Like Before
  • Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 ReMIX
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 2.5 ReMIX
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5+2.5 ReMIX
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 2.8 Final Chapter Prologue
So I found this guy on Youtube who makes some pretty interesting points on what the name of MoM is, what his true motivations are, and why he claims to be "scared" of the darkness. At this point, I'm actually going to believe this theory is true until new information is provided otherwise.
Also, as a side note of my own theories, I would like to provide an explanation of where and what the Black Box is:

I believe that the box was actually placed inside the true Kingdom Hearts after the first Keyblade War by Luxu (as we see him dragging it through what we presume to be the Badlands (future Keyblade Graveyard), and is seen with No Name watching over the aftermath of the Keyblade War) and would only be retrieved by him once his role was complete. My reasoning is that the box didn't exist in the Realm of Light at the time (hence Maleficent's reasoning as to why they could never find it) until after the most recent Keyblade War when Xigbar (Luxu) retrieved it (via unknown means).

Inside I believe to be the datascape for all the past Keyblade Wielders that were "saved".

Spoiler Spoiler Show

Let me know your thoughts; all theories welcome!
 

Ballad of Caius

Stardust 💫
Joined
Jan 4, 2014
Messages
6,718
Awards
5
Location
Spacegray
  • Final Fantasy XV
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • In the Grid
  • Bravely Default
  • Kingdom Hearts Unchained χ
Spoiler Spoiler Show
 

Kimmy1980

New member
Joined
Aug 11, 2017
Messages
21
Awards
0
Location
United States
If we are going off of The Landi Lodge's youtube video and then what Wikipedia mentions about the name Lucifer itself, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer#Background

Lucifer is the Latin name for the planet Venus in its morning appearances and is often used for mythological and religious figures associated with the planet..... continues on..... As a name for the planet in its morning aspect, "Lucifer" (Light-Bringer) is a proper name and is capitalized in English. A similar name used by the Roman poet Catullus for the planet in its evening aspect is "Noctifer" (Night-Bringer)

Noctifer? Hmmm... a connection to Noctis? If MoM himself is a true representation of Lucifer (light & day), then his opposite would be Noctis (night & darkness)? Are they the same person, a dual personality? If Daybreak Town did fall to darkness after the war, then did the MoM become Noctis then?

Needs to connect somehow to Yozora possibly.
Black box need to be connected to the MoM somehow. Maybe that is where Noctis resides? Worlds collide, and Yozora is harboring MoM's heart?

I don't know how to connect the dots, it's making my head hurt and I promised myself this lenten season to stay away from creating bizarre theories.

Too many symbols, I only hope that Tetsuya does this correctly, since he has pulled from so many religious icons.
 

jacklak

New member
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Messages
9
Awards
0
If we go with all this: it could explain soras role as well. Sora could be JESUS willing to sacrifice himself for everyone. Sora is clearly connected to KH in some way. And Lucifer believed that he was or could be better then God. So if The MOM is Lucifer and wants to be better then KH it would stand to reason that Sora would be his biggest obstacle. Lucifer tempts JESUS in the Bible, maybe the MOM will do the same to Sora.
 

Xickin

Traitor of KHInsider.com
Joined
Mar 28, 2011
Messages
2,114
Awards
16
Age
25
Location
Ontario, Canada
  • Nothing's Like Before
  • Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 ReMIX
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 2.5 ReMIX
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5+2.5 ReMIX
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 2.8 Final Chapter Prologue
For story, I want to say that Sora is the "false light" that MoM refers to YX about, hence why YX seems to have so much malice towards him. I would prefer this theory, because once Sora released Ventus, Xion, and then Roxas' hearts, he kind of lost some of his importance by "losing" those connections, so having MoM tied to him in some way, shape, or form would be cool.
@Ballad of Caius I think if you want a representation of Twilight, Dusk, Dawn etc. We need look no further than Yozora. A character with red (darkness) and blue (light) eyes whose name translates to "Night Sky". "Night" being the darkness aspect (Riku), and "Sky" being the light (Sora).
ALSO one more theory: I'm pretty sure that Yozora's driver MIGHT be Luxord's complete self (just the way they sound when the driver says "Impressive")
 
Last edited:

Dast

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 26, 2019
Messages
506
Awards
1
Location
Luxembourg
  • The Foreteller
For story, I want to say that Sora is the "false light" that MoM refers to YX about, hence why YX is seems to have so much malice towards him.
That's a nice idea and I think YX talks about weak people who 'strip the strong of their power and convince themselves they've earned it', which is a little like a cynical version of 'My friends are my power'
 

Ballad of Caius

Stardust 💫
Joined
Jan 4, 2014
Messages
6,718
Awards
5
Location
Spacegray
  • Final Fantasy XV
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • In the Grid
  • Bravely Default
  • Kingdom Hearts Unchained χ
@Ballad of Caius I think if you want a representation of Twilight, Dusk, Dawn etc. We need look no further than Yozora. A character with red (darkness) and blue (light) eyes whose name translates to "Night Sky". "Night" being the darkness aspect (Riku), and "Sky" being the light (Sora).
That's a good observation, but I'm more inclined to think that Yozora has a one red eye and one blue eye because of the "ghost eye" mythos. In some culture, different colored eyes are called "ghost eye", which refers to the ability of a person being able to see the dead, which is what Yozora did while he was asleep.
 

Tobi

Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2020
Messages
39
Awards
0
I like this observation. Admittedly mainly because it doesn't involve MoM being a time traveled Sora, but also beyond that. I read the idea before, that the flash of light was MoM telling his name in a different way, but the other arguments were new to me.

However MoM having a symbolical connection to Luzifer, could "Darkness" have a similar connection? In the same way, do the animals of the Foretellers masks have any meaningful meanings in that regard? I'm mainly thinking about Invi now, since she is using the mask of a snake and with the story of Adam and Eva, where I think Satan disguised as a snake made Eva eating the apple, making her develope self awareness. I have no idea yet where this could fit to Invi, since she appeared to me as one of the more passive Foretellers as far as I'm remembering and never did anything we have seen, where she was trying to trick anyone doing something forbidden. But on the other hand Daybreak Town could be seen as the equivalent of paradise ("A world full of light"), so I'm not sure yet if I should drop this idea.
 

RonaldPoe

Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
Messages
40
Awards
0
I think it's possible they're going for a Taoism approach as well. Darkness is Yin (representing Darkness and some feminine traits) because it's calm, collected, and obviously darkness. MoM seems chaotic but otherwise fits Yang (representing Light but is masculine) very well. Aced also represents the aggressive and masculine traits of Yang and is a believer in Light.

The theory posted here is interesting and probably has a lot of merit too.
 

Antifa Lockhart

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
3,540
Awards
52
  • O, Purest of Hearts
  • Come So Far
  • Beauty Within
  • Steadfast Heart
  • Curiouser and Curiouser
  • Ever Gentle and Kind
In the same way, do the animals of the Foretellers masks have any meaningful meanings in that regard?
Actually, yes. The foretellers are named after the Seven Deadly Sins and the foretellers' animals are portrayed as their specific sins in various literature and mythology.
 

Tobi

Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2020
Messages
39
Awards
0
Actually, yes. The foretellers are named after the Seven Deadly Sins and the foretellers' animals are portrayed as their specific sins in various literature and mythology.
Ah yes, I somehow forgot that the Seven deadly sins are comming from christian mythology. But aside from the snake in paradise are there any other (known) stories to the other animals?
 

Xickin

Traitor of KHInsider.com
Joined
Mar 28, 2011
Messages
2,114
Awards
16
Age
25
Location
Ontario, Canada
  • Nothing's Like Before
  • Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 ReMIX
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 2.5 ReMIX
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5+2.5 ReMIX
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 2.8 Final Chapter Prologue
Ah yes, I somehow forgot that the Seven deadly sins are comming from christian mythology. But aside from the snake in paradise are there any other (known) stories to the other animals?
Mmm, not that I can recall. It's cool though because Lundi makes sense of the names to the Foretellers via their actions (which for some of them I didn't get). Ava is a fox, representing greed, as she has so many desires (protecting others, securing the light, keeping the MoM's teachings intact). Aced is a bear, representing sloth, not because he's lazy, but because he shirked his duty as Ira's right hand man, and instead kept trying to show how much of a better leader he'd be to the other Foretellers, thus abandoning his role. Gula is a leopard, representing gluttony, because he's gluttonous not only for Lux (as he begs Ava for it in 0.2) but also because he craves the truth behind the missing page. Invi is a snake, representing envy, in a sense that she's envious of the Master of Master's leadership and wisdom, thus she wants to be like him, and in the other sense that she is envious of Aced's duty as right-hand man (she even places herself on Ira's right side during their meeting, and constantly reports back to him, making her more of a right hand than Aced); she also shows a lot of animosity towards Aced (on a side note, I wonder if her whole face being covered is a nod toward the saying "jealousy is an ugly thing"). Ira is a unicorn, representing wrath, as he is impatient to find the traitor, wrathful towards some of his fellow Foretellers (like Gula in 0.2), and self-destructive by turning the Foretellers against each other when he as leader should keep them unified.
Funny enough, the only Foreteller without a physical mask is Luxu, who bears the mark of the goat, and the only one who actually never succumbed to his representation of Lust. Instead, he used the illusion of his lust on others, making them believe he was just a fool lusting after the Keyblade, all while keeping his true motivations a secret, and thus almost never suspected by those above or around him.

@Ballad of Caius Oooooooooh, okay. I never knew that bit of mythology, but I do like it!
 
Last edited:

Kokoko253

New member
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Messages
29
Awards
0
Age
27
Mmm, not that I can recall. It's cool though because Lani makes sense of the names to the Foretellers via their actions (which for some of them I didn't get). Ava is a fox, representing greed, as she has so many desires (protecting others, securing the light, keeping the MoM's teachings intact). Aced is a bear, representing sloth, not because he's lazy, but because he shirked his duty as Ira's right hand man, and instead kept trying to show how much of a better leader he'd be to the other Foretellers, thus abandoning his role. Gula is a leopard, representing gluttony, because he's gluttonous not only for Lux (as he begs Ava for it in 0.2) but also because he craves the truth behind the missing page. Inviters is a snake, representing envy, in a sense that she's envious of the Master of Master's leadership and wisdom, thus she wants to be like him, and in the other sense that she is envious of Aced's duty as right-hand man (she even places herself on Ira's right side during their meeting, and constantly reports back to him, making her more of a right hand than Aced); she also shows a lot of animosity towards Aced (on a side note, I wonder if her whole face being covered is a nod toward the saying "jealousy is an ugly thing"). Ira is a unicorn, representing wrath, as he is impatient to find the traitor, wrathful towards some of his fellow Foretellers (like Gula in 0.2), and self-destructive by turning the Foretellers against each other when he as leader should keep them unified.
Funny enough, the only Foreteller without a physical mask is Luxu, who bears the mark of the goat, and the only one who actually never succumbed to his representation of Lust. Instead, he used the illusion of his lust on others, making them believe he was just a fool lusting after the Keyblade, all while keeping his true motivations a secret, and thus almost never suspected by those above or around him.

@Ballad of Caius Oooooooooh, okay. I never knew that bit of mythology, but I do like it!
Hmm, I always understood the Foretellers' names as ironic names, because the corresponding heavenly virtues are more in tune with them.
Aced - diligence: his diligent behaviour led to conflict. If he was lazier and didn't try to solve everything immediately, things would have turned out better.
Ira - patience: his patient behaviour led to him abandoning his duty as leader, focusing on the book way too much.
Invy - kindness: her kind nature was misunderstood as an alliance, leading to conflict.
Gula - temperance: he actually wasn't that effective or motivated to find out who is the traitor.
Ava - charity: she gave the book of prophecies to someone else.
Luxu - chastity: he actually lived for thousands of years, refraining from getting his keyblade back.
Also, MoM is pretty humble, downplaying his importance all the time.
 

jdh34

New member
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
15
Awards
0
Location
Australia
This mom character will have his identity revealed soon by op and the youtube video on this theory
So sit back relax and enjoy the ride
 

Xickin

Traitor of KHInsider.com
Joined
Mar 28, 2011
Messages
2,114
Awards
16
Age
25
Location
Ontario, Canada
  • Nothing's Like Before
  • Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 ReMIX
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 2.5 ReMIX
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5+2.5 ReMIX
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 2.8 Final Chapter Prologue
@Kokoko253 I think their sins outweigh their virtues on this one. Mostly because Ava's role itself is greedy (taking other wielders from other Unions), and she has good intentions, and to quote Greed from FMAB "Greed isn't always a bad thing" (Plus, it was part of her duty to give the BoP to a new Union Leader via MoM's orders). Ira (I think) had little patience, since he tried to out the traitor as quickly as possible, and even expressed the intention to harm Gula. For Aced, sloth has a deeper meaning to it "To abstain from one's duties" or "To not heed one's teachings" which he did when he kept trying to be the new leader, and tried to defy MoM's teachings. Gula was very motivated to find the traitor, even trying to instigate others into outing themselves and confront them (Aced in 0.2). Invi was very hostile towards Aced (fighting with him (verbally), and undermining him) and showed a lot of loyalty to Ira, when she was supposed to be impartial.
In the end, it was Luxu that was the only one to resist his sin (the lust aspect). As for MoM, who knows what his Pride could be towards? He has knowledge of the future, so he could be acting the way he is to fool the others (which is very arrogant (plus they say pride is the root of all sin)).
PS I heard he will be represented by a Black Lion, which makes sense, but I was hoping for a dragon :-(
 

Dast

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 26, 2019
Messages
506
Awards
1
Location
Luxembourg
  • The Foreteller
Hmm, I always understood the Foretellers' names as ironic names, because the corresponding heavenly virtues are more in tune with them.
Aced - diligence: his diligent behaviour led to conflict. If he was lazier and didn't try to solve everything immediately, things would have turned out better.
Ira - patience: his patient behaviour led to him abandoning his duty as leader, focusing on the book way too much.
Invy - kindness: her kind nature was misunderstood as an alliance, leading to conflict.
Gula - temperance: he actually wasn't that effective or motivated to find out who is the traitor.
Ava - charity: she gave the book of prophecies to someone else.
Luxu - chastity: he actually lived for thousands of years, refraining from getting his keyblade back.
Also, MoM is pretty humble, downplaying his importance all the time.
I thought I could spot Ira, Invi, Gula, and Aced displaying their namesake sins in Back Cover.

Ira - The clearest one. Ira briefly gives into anger when he confronts Ava in an attempt to find Gula. Ava says his eyes were scary and she was worried about what he could do.
Invi - She is envious of Ava gathering the 'finest Keyblade wielders' for her own special union.
Gula - His gluttony is not for food but for Lux, which he wants to gather to summon Kingdom Hearts.
Aced - This is a little unclear but can be seen in the alliance he forms with Gula, frustrated that Ira is 'wasting time', but he chooses not to confront Ira immediately and instead a few months passes where nothing happens and Gula quits the alliance, annoyed at Aced's inaction.
 

Xickin

Traitor of KHInsider.com
Joined
Mar 28, 2011
Messages
2,114
Awards
16
Age
25
Location
Ontario, Canada
  • Nothing's Like Before
  • Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 ReMIX
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 2.5 ReMIX
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5+2.5 ReMIX
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 2.8 Final Chapter Prologue
I'm also beginning to think that none of the current Union leaders are the ones that struck down Strelitzia, and instead it was Darkness. This way Ventus was falsely put in as a Union leader, and could have access to the technology that would take him to the future (or another worldline) and make him Darkness' vessel. Why Ventus? Don't know. But I'm starting to think that MoM has been running from worldline to worldline to find a place where he could defeat darkness, hence why MoM wants to destroy the world, because he's hoping that Darkness is in it and will perish along with it.
 
Top