The Master of Masters is Sora.



REGISTER TO REMOVE ADS
Status
Not open for further replies.

Chaser

KHI Site Staff
Staff member
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
22,149
Awards
48
Location
Australia
  • Completionist
  • NieR: Automata
  • Beauty Within
  • Keyblade Champion
  • Taciturn Stalwart
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5+2.5 ReMIX
[video=youtube;80qMp0Ua-K4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80qMp0Ua-K4&[/video]
 

Zip

Bronze Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2018
Messages
2,406
Awards
0
Doubt it. It would go against the whole concept of Sora being someone who isn’t special at all in terms of being a chosen one or having some secret identity. He’s just an island boy who cares about his friends who are the reason he has the strength he does.
 

Recon

My turn
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
5,125
Awards
12
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • News Hound
  • Ursus Union
  • Mog Boss
  • Final Fantasy Dimensions
  • The World Ends with You: Solo Remix
MoM is a person we may never know. Luxu will be handing the keyblade to kid Xehanort. Or Luxu becomes Xehanort. Can't decide which theory I like better..
 

Oracle Spockanort

the only villain on staff
Staff member
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
32,620
Awards
54
Age
28
Location
California
Website
twitter.com
  • Put That Thing Back Where It Came From
  • 15th Anniversary
  • Just Short of the Mark
  • Advanced Chain of Memories
  • Beauty Within
  • No Name
I completely reject this idea, but only because I’ve had a theory I’ve been working on for half a year now and have yet to share.

Sora being the MoM completely goes against the fact that Nomura has repeatedly stated Sora is just a normal, not special person. He does extraordinary things but they are things anybody could do. The difference is that he chooses to do those things while others don’t. That is the only thing that makes Sora special.

And I think the theme of “choice” will come into play many times in the game. Xehanort desperately believes in fate and destiny and has banked his entire life’s work on a prophecy.

Sora being the MoM would negate the theme of choice AND just ruin the message behind Sora—that all people have the potential to be great, they only have to open themselves to the possibility.
 

DarkosOverlord

Bronze Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2016
Messages
2,808
Awards
4
Age
25
Location
Rome, Italy
  • Keyblade Master
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • The Foreteller
  • Savage Nymph
Guys, the MoM is obviously the Mark of Mastery.

man, why can't the mom just be mom, why can't luxu just be luxu, brain brain, etc etc.
I think making theories (well, this was more of a statement I guess) gives many a feeling of empowerment of some sort. And the bigger the shock value, the better.

And I would say something about the series spoiling the fans in doing so but when you think about it, despite it being plenty of memes about "x is y" it only happened... once with Terra and Xehanort. Twice if we count Roxas being Sora's Nobody.
Problem is, those identity cases were telegraphed from lightyears ahead, hence why I don't really buy any complex theory about characters secretly being other characters.
Nomura has shown to be a much simpler writer in this regard, and looking at Marluxia's Somebody being a copy of himself and called Lauriam and straight up Ventus in Union that hasn't changed.
 

Leaferian

Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2013
Messages
573
Awards
3
Age
31
  • Unicornis Union
  • Put That Thing Back Where It Came From
  • Nothing's Like Before
Marluxia's Somebody being a copy of himself and called Lauriam
I mean... that's how nobodies work though? With the obvious exception of Roxas, who takes his appearance from Ventus, Nobodies look almost completely identical to their somebody. And their nobody name is just their original name mixed up with an X. That just seems like it follows the rules he set up?
 

Sephiroth0812

Guardian of Light
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
10,231
Awards
26
Location
Germany
  • Cloaked Schemer
  • Taciturn Stalwart
  • Chilly Academic
  • Whirlwind Lancer
  • Ever Gentle and Kind
  • Fairest of them All
I think making theories (well, this was more of a statement I guess) gives many a feeling of empowerment of some sort. And the bigger the shock value, the better.

And I would say something about the series spoiling the fans in doing so but when you think about it, despite it being plenty of memes about "x is y" it only happened... once with Terra and Xehanort. Twice if we count Roxas being Sora's Nobody.
Problem is, those identity cases were telegraphed from lightyears ahead, hence why I don't really buy any complex theory about characters secretly being other characters.
Well, this would be expedient if it would really be that much of a shock value but when looking at the series as a whole it simply isn't anymore.
This plot device overused and frankly getting boring, much similar to the constant employment of the amnesia trope and man behind the man/bigger bad scenario.

The issue is not only about "character x is actually character y" (in your examples you also forget both Kairi/Naminé and the whole heap of shenanigans surrounding Xion) but about general constant identity bingo, character name shuffling (the whole who's Ansem now stuff) or supposed "new" characters eventually turning out to be spawns/spin-offs/data versions/dream constructs of already existing characters instead of being true new characters, often in order to have a forced already existing "close" connection to the existing cast so the writers can forego the effort to actually forge a new connection between the established characters and the new ones.

The whole issue with Riku babbling about "the other me" in the newest trailer is yet another example, regardless if it turns out in the end to be the Replica, a time-displaced KH 1-Riku, a Data-construct, a Riku-Chirithy or whatever else.
The basic premise is the same as in all the other cases.

It's generally somewhat of ironically funny when you mention those memes, which is a way of the fandom to mock and/or complain about this issue in the series and yet there are countless theories around proposing even more of this very same stuff.

I personally am totally in the same lane as Audo here and cross my fingers that all these characters are indeed truly "new" characters not only in the form of in-universe identity, but also without being any spawned offshoot/Nobody/Clone/Replica of an already established character.
 

DarkosOverlord

Bronze Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2016
Messages
2,808
Awards
4
Age
25
Location
Rome, Italy
  • Keyblade Master
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • The Foreteller
  • Savage Nymph
I mean... that's how nobodies work though? With the obvious exception of Roxas, who takes his appearance from Ventus, Nobodies look almost completely identical to their somebody. And their nobody name is just their original name mixed up with an X. That just seems like it follows the rules he set up?
Yes, that's... that was my point.

Also the anagram with X is a naming convention Xemnas came up with, it isn't mandatory for Nobodies.

Well, this would be expedient if it would really be that much of a shock value but when looking at the series as a whole it simply isn't anymore.
This plot device overused and frankly getting boring, much similar to the constant employment of the amnesia trope and man behind the man/bigger bad scenario.
Tell that to the people who keep riding this rusty train. Didn't say they were right, just what they think.

The issue is not only about "character x is actually character y" (in your examples you also forget both Kairi/Naminé and the whole heap of shenanigans surrounding Xion)
Heh. I think I gave Kairi/Naminé the same focus the series itself has.
Xion is her own person, though. She's not Sora, and she's not another character. She isn't even the Nobody of another character, quite ironically she is part of possibly the most unique group of beings in all the franchise, the sentient puppets. There are only two of them, and only one isn't a perfect replica of an old character.

But about general constant identity bingo, character name shuffling (the whole who's Ansem now stuff) or supposed "new" characters eventually turning out to be spawns/spin-offs/data versions/dream constructs of already existing characters instead of being true new characters, often in order to have a forced already existing "close" connection to the existing cast so the writers can forego the effort to actually forge a new connection between the established characters and the new ones.

The whole issue with Riku babbling about "the other me" in the newest trailer is yet another example, regardless if it turns out in the end to be the Replica, a time-displaced KH 1-Riku, a Data-construct, a Riku-Chirithy or whatever else.
The basic premise is the same as in all the other cases.
That's the thing though, all of these switcharoos... they actually aren't that many, or that repetitive.

Data versions? They were mostly only a Coded thing, and haven't been showcased or mentioned since. Coded itself seems its own self-enclosed space with each passing month.

Dream versions: at the end of the day, it was just Sora and Riku, *ours* Sora and Riku. The whole dream thing was and is a mess, but at the end of the day it was still those two guys moving on with the story.

Spawns: we're still at the Xehanort/Terra -> Ansem&Xemnas stuff happened in BbS as the most recent case of that. And the only other major similar event would be the aforementioned Sora/Roxas and Kairi/Naminé.

No excuse for Ventus and Vanitas and their bons with Sora, something that still confuses even veterans up to this day.

But this was mostly my point: the repetition and tropes, while still there, aren't nearly as bad and constant as we usually think. The fandom embellished these notions, and due to that and the ever present theories about this or that character this view of KH as this constant re-usage of characters planted roots as truth.
But I say it's far less tragic when you go back and think about it.

Unless, of course, one doesn't buy all these theories and believes Ansem and Kairi's Grandm will have this huge reveal, and that Brain is going to be 30 different people, and so on.
But well, I don't: I think the MoM is the MoM, Brain is Brain, et cetera. I don't immediately assume every guy actually has an hidden nugget of lore in the color of their eyes that will lead me to discover he's in fact this other dude, because that's not how the series raised me as a viewer.
Everything has always been pretty obvious, and so I expect Ven and Lauriam to be the blatant "reveals", and everybody else to be new characters, because we always did got them.

"Expect" being the operative word. Clearly I can always be wrong.
 

KeybladeOrder

Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2015
Messages
384
Awards
0
Location
Georgia
I completely reject this idea, but only because I’ve had a theory I’ve been working on for half a year now and have yet to share.

Sora being the MoM completely goes against the fact that Nomura has repeatedly stated Sora is just a normal, not special person. He does extraordinary things but they are things anybody could do. The difference is that he chooses to do those things while others don’t. That is the only thing that makes Sora special.

And I think the theme of “choice” will come into play many times in the game. Xehanort desperately believes in fate and destiny and has banked his entire life’s work on a prophecy.

Sora being the MoM would negate the theme of choice AND just ruin the message behind Sora—that all people have the potential to be great, they only have to open themselves to the possibility.
I completely agree with you on this front. That being said, my first thought when I saw this thread wasn't "Sora is the successor/reincarnation/whatever of the MoM", but "At the end of the game Sora goes back in time andbecomes the MoM, setting everything in motion. I don't believe that either, but it's just what popped into my head when I saw the title of the thread.
 

Leaferian

Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2013
Messages
573
Awards
3
Age
31
  • Unicornis Union
  • Put That Thing Back Where It Came From
  • Nothing's Like Before
Yes, that's... that was my point.

Also the anagram with X is a naming convention Xemnas came up with, it isn't mandatory for Nobodies.
Your point, to be honest, wasn't clear then. It sounded like you were calling out the Marluxia/Lauriam connection as being specifically simple writing, rather than the nature of human-shaped Nobodies.

And yes, I'm aware of that.
 

DarkosOverlord

Bronze Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2016
Messages
2,808
Awards
4
Age
25
Location
Rome, Italy
  • Keyblade Master
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • The Foreteller
  • Savage Nymph
Your point, to be honest, wasn't clear then. It sounded like you were calling out the Marluxia/Lauriam connection as being specifically simple writing, rather than the nature of human-shaped Nobodies.

And yes, I'm aware of that.
I was doing both.
They have a very simply written nature.
 

daviviana

New member
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
17
Awards
0
"Also the anagram with X is a naming convention Xemnas came up with, it isn't mandatory for Nobodies."

It's a little bit more than a naming convention. The Sigil of the Remnant, the X, is a mark dominance of Xehanort. It was also placed in Sora's clothing in DDD to locate him into the Dream Realms at any time. Also, interestingly, it is in BBS characters uniforms for some reason.
 

DarkosOverlord

Bronze Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2016
Messages
2,808
Awards
4
Age
25
Location
Rome, Italy
  • Keyblade Master
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • The Foreteller
  • Savage Nymph
"Also the anagram with X is a naming convention Xemnas came up with, it isn't mandatory for Nobodies."

It's a little bit more than a naming convention. The Sigil of the Remnant, the X, is a mark dominance of Xehanort. It was also placed in Sora's clothing in DDD to locate him into the Dream Realms at any time. Also, interestingly, it is in BBS characters uniforms for some reason.
Yes, I'm fully aware of the x and all its cameos.
Still, those names don't actually have any hidden power that we know of, so it is just a naming convention.

Oh, and the reason why it was on the clothes of gthe main cast was because Nomura wanted to underline the importance of such symbol in that game, or something like that.
 

MelodicEnigma

Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2018
Messages
106
Awards
0
Website
twitter.com
I completely reject this idea, but only because I’ve had a theory I’ve been working on for half a year now and have yet to share.

Sora being the MoM completely goes against the fact that Nomura has repeatedly stated Sora is just a normal, not special person. He does extraordinary things but they are things anybody could do. The difference is that he chooses to do those things while others don’t. That is the only thing that makes Sora special.

And I think the theme of “choice” will come into play many times in the game. Xehanort desperately believes in fate and destiny and has banked his entire life’s work on a prophecy.

Sora being the MoM would negate the theme of choice AND just ruin the message behind Sora—that all people have the potential to be great, they only have to open themselves to the possibility.
I just disagree with the MoM theory because it's hard for me to imagine how that would truly play out. Lol It's fun, in the crazy, time traveling way I guess.

Though, for yours, I think it does bring up some interesting concepts on Sora as a character. I definitely would agree that the initial approach to Sora was that he was just some cheerful, goofy island boy who happened to be thrust into the madness of the war between light and dark. And within that, he had the personality and heart to accept ideals, to embrace courage, that anyone could have if they pushed themselves through the darkness.

But, once we look at the conditions of how and why Sora was placed in this position, the actual reasons being explained in BBS and DDD, I believe that is truly telling us how special and unique Sora is as a character. This is one of many examples, but for him to have gained the ability to host/connect his heart to others on two occasions (and not even the metaphorical connection to friendships), and to push his abilities from that connection throughout each story, really is telling about who he is on an individual level. The island boy turned out to not be just some normal, random person put into this situation.

All the information we've received on how everyone is connected sets an underlying, unique depth to each character, Sora included, and that is something I feel we might have further driven in this finale saga. Though concerning "fate" vs. "choice" specifically, I definitely agree with that concept playing a major role, and the gang dealing with that situation for themselves as well.
 

NeoShadow™

New member
Joined
Feb 10, 2019
Messages
1
Awards
0
If you haven't finished Kingdom Hearts 3, stop reading now because this will certainly spoil things for you, if you don't care go ahead and read on.

Well we definitely now know that Luxu's actual body perished a long time ago, and that he hadn't heard that name in a long while, that he instead goes by the name Xigbar now, so yes, Xigbar is Luxu in a new form. He ressurects/summons the original protectors of light to his point, and when they demand to know what's in the black box he just says "You'll see". Which ultimately repeats the MoM's cycle.

My perspective is actually that Sora tried to save Kairi who was slain, and in order to do that he had to go back in time after discovering her fate. When he did that she was safe back on Destiny Islands, but he turned to dust. The MoM could potentially be an older version of Sora who we thought was a pointless character, but actually isn't. I say this because Yen Sid tells Sora "may your heart be your guiding key", and the MoM repeats that exact quote many times to his disciples. I think Sora got older, went back in time, tried to incite the war so things would happen as they would, and hoped that several attempts would allow him to save Kairi but exist with her as well, he telling his students that if he ever vanishes, would mean he's saying "If my younger self ever fails, carry on without me" as Sora dying young would mean the future him would vanish as well no matter what time he tried to hide in.

This is just my perspective especially because of that quote, and because Kairi was slain he became so invested in trying to change her fate, but ultimately the only way to do that is to take her place, as a soul was claimed and that spot must be occupied. The secret ending shows Sora in a different world (Shibuya, Tokyo) and a hooded person making a heart up at a normal shaped moon, so maybe he didn't die, but ended up somewhere else? I think they're all just stuck in a time loop when people started messing with time. UGH!
[/FONT]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top