Film ► The Little Mermaid Live Action Remake

[DarkosOverlord]

And where did you get "you won't see this so I'm going to entirely disagree" from?

Here.

But I feel like it would just keep going in circles and end up with you not seeing how your average mermaid who lives under the sea could be black. So I'm just going to end with I fully disagree with you.

Then why is this an issue for you at all? And why did you go to such lengths explaining it?

Because there's more than just the basic "correctness" of things, and you can add layers to it.
Just because something kinda works doesn't mean I can't think of and say some changes or ways to (in my opinion, of course) improve it, or why something wasn't as precise as it could've been.
Like I don't leave KH III alone just because it works on a tecnical level and provides a story of a good guy defeating an antagonist.
That's there and it works on a basic level, but it doesn't mean we can't go in detail and see if everything works or could've been made differently.

About going to such lenghts, that's the tricky part with side issues. They're not immediate to many, so you have to go on tangents sometimes.
Which often leads to you looking like a nitpicky dude who builds crazy theories just to dislike something, that's why I stress it: this isn't something that destroys the movie. It's simply why I think a black mermaid doesn't quite work.

If I'm not the first one to acknowledge it's not that big of a deal, then I definitely would be racist or a pathetic person for putting such emphasis on this.

On that note go ahead and get some sleep, friend. You've explained yourself and I understand where you're coming from and you skepticism. It's all good.



EDIT: okay I messed everything up with the quote layout, I'm sorry.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

I have no desire to even see this argument as a black person who is very happy about this casting.

But I just want to point out that a lot of aquatic life have a variety of skin coloring so perhaps read up on marine biology?

 

[Darkspawn]

The melanin argument is bogus. They’re fictional characters based mythological creatures and they can be whatever color the filmmakers deem appropriate for the story they want to tell.

But since people want to over analyze:

While the original film doesn’t explore Triton’s heritage, in both Greek mythology and the stage version of the Little Mermaid, he’s the son of Poseidon and Amphitrite, a god and goddess. As such, they could have easily taken the physical form of people of color when they conceived Triton. Thus making Triton a merman of color as which he could pass his skin color on to Ariel. Also, in some of the Greek myths, Triton’s home is located off the coast of Libya. So it would make sense geographically for him to be a POC.

Not to mention, there’s this girl in the existing Little Mermaid canon:

I never once questioned Gabriela’s existence as a mermaid when I watched this episode as a kid. We shouldn’t be doing that for a black version of Ariel either.

Likewise, Norm Lewis’ portrayal of Triton in the original Broadway production was excellent and his skin color didn’t hinder the performance at all for anyone who isn’t a racist.

It also worked just fine on Once Upon a Time when Poseidon and Ursula (which was a twist on the Triton/Ariel relationship) were portrayed by black actors.

 

[Muke]

No offense, but that was probably one of the most pointless discussions I have witnessed on this forum, and I've been here for quite some time. If we're really going to get into the details of whether a casting decision makes sense scientifically and all that stuff, we would be sitting here for 5 years dissecting countless movies. I think it only matters when it's appropriate and things like that are pointed out in the movie -- in TLM, it is not important.

Don't remember if I said this -- I am glad about this casting. Disney knew this was a very ballsy and risky decision. And honestly, I'm glad they 'took the bullet' and went with it anyway.

 

[Elysium]

For me, it's mostly about the fact that she does not have red hair. Red hair is the defining part of Ariel's design. It's like making a Cinderella movie with an orange dress when she is known for a beautiful, blue dress.

 

[FudgemintGuardian]

I'm going to start calling this "the Mushu fear".

If I remember correctly, the seagull is going to appear and be genderswapped? Also Flounder?

Oof. Come to think of it, I don't want to see what a "live-action" Flounder would look like.

For me, it's mostly about the fact that she does not have red hair. Red hair is the defining part of Ariel's design. It's like making a Cinderella movie with an orange dress when she is known for a beautiful, blue dress.

We haven't seen her as Ariel yet, so maybe she'll have red hair in the movie?

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

For me, it's mostly about the fact that she does not have red hair. Red hair is the defining part of Ariel's design. It's like making a Cinderella movie with an orange dress when she is known for a beautiful, blue dress.

Lily James is naturally a brunette and they dyed her hair blonde for Cinderella.

Pretty certain they will dye Halle’s hair red.

 

[Darkspawn]

Lily James is naturally a brunette and they dyed her hair blonde for Cinderella.

Pretty certain they will dye Halle’s hair red.

I think she would be beautiful with red locks! I’m interested to see how they handle the underwater hair physics for her and the other mer-characters. Really just interested to see the direction they take with the underwater sequences in general. Maybe they’ll be taking notes from the work James Cameron has been doing with the underwater filming for the Avatar sequel.

 

[Dandelion]

For me, it's mostly about the fact that she does not have red hair. Red hair is the defining part of Ariel's design. It's like making a Cinderella movie with an orange dress when she is known for a beautiful, blue dress.

Her dress is fucking silver in the movie, though.

We make concessions for art all the time. The original version of the story, for example, specifically mentions she has gold hair (nevermind that she turns into foam or becomes a spirit at the end) but woops, when Disney tried making TLM in the 40s, he made her an ebony haired mermaid and the animators in the 80s made her a redhead because blonde hair underwater in hues of blue and green looks ridiculous.

The stories we watch from Disney differ from their source material, often in settings, culture, plot, gender, and all sorts of things. Who are we to get precious over red hair especially when we have hair dye? This movie isn't meant to be a 1:1 remake of the original and thank god. We had our Little Mermaid. This will happen again and again until the end of time. That's how stories survive and it's a natural part of our culture.

I'm so incredibly disappointed in this forum and that's saying something.

 

[Elysium]

You know what I'm disappointed in are moderators who berate the forum members for opinions they don't like to the point they start cursing them out. I am not going to be talked to like the way you people spoke to Rydgea a couple of months ago just for sticking up for people who didn't like KH3 that you've all hounded. If it bothers you so much, why don't you leave, just like Audo, if you're so enraged. Believe me, nobody is going to beg you to stay just so you can spew more venom in their face.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

Dandelion isn’t staff and hasn’t been for a few weeks now.

 

[Dandelion]

You know what I'm disappointed in are moderators who berate the forum members for opinions they don't like to the point they start cursing them out. I am not going to be talked to like the way you people spoke to Rydgea a couple of months ago. If it bothers you so much, why don't you leave, just like Audo, if you're so enraged. Believe me, nobody is going to beg you to stay just so you can spew more venom in their face.

Because I said her dress is fucking silver? It is. If you're offended on behalf of the dress, truly, I apologize. I'm sorry that the comment was strong. I'm sorry that my potty mouth is severe. I promise you, it is not meant to be an attack on you or your personhood, truly. This is going to sound aggressive because it's harsh comment, that is true: it was an attack purely on your post which didn't make a single ounce of sense.

For what it's worth, I don't work here anymore. I retired several months ago, but no one's gotten around to flipping the button that says I don't speak from a place of power. So, feel free to call me an asshole, you won't be banned for it. I am an asshole. An asshole who doesn't like the arguments that are tied up in racism, even if it's benign or nostalgic.

 

[FudgemintGuardian]

Dandelion isn’t staff and hasn’t been for a few weeks now.

His profile still says "Staff member."

 

[Gray Aria]

So many are berating Disney for this decision, saying that they are pandering to minorities as if they specifically sought out a black actress for this role. There is no proof of that and even if they did, I see nothing wrong with it. But maybe they just held an audition and the casting director chose whoever performed the best. Maybe race was never an issue to them? Halle Bailey is a talented singer and it is not unbelievable that a casting director would think she fits the role.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

GOOD. Someone like that shouldn't be a moderator. Hopefully you and Chaser follow him out the door soon enough.

Oh sweetheart I’ll stick around just for you

 

[Elysium]

We haven't seen her as Ariel yet, so maybe she'll have red hair in the movie?

I hope so.

Oh sweetheart I’ll stick around just for you

Likewise, honey.

 

[Dandelion]

GOOD. Someone like that shouldn't be a moderator. Hopefully you and Chaser follow him out the door soon enough.

It was funny when you were mad at me, but now you've crossed a line. You have absolutely no idea what the staff members of this site go through just to keep everything up and running so that the next generation of Boomers, like yourself, can be mad when someone asks them why they cling to white fairy tale characters.

Here's a couple of last minute thoughts, and then I'll peace out on this particular topic (but I'll still be around, angelfish)

1: Mermaids aren't anatomically correct. They just aren't. Look at an actual fishtail. They don't go that way. If a hybrid human-fish thing existed, anatomically, it couldn't survive that way. Where are its gills? What the fuck do its lungs do? How does it reproduce?

2: Fair enough that you want to preserve the original character design, but answer me this, how does a remake remove an original? Does it? How many classic films have been remade and stopped being classics? Moreover, look at that original design. Is Ariel white because the artists were thinking about melanin or is she white because artists are subconsciously trained to view the default "human" design as a white one? Is Ariel an untouchable work of art, or is she an interpretation of a character that is a product of her times? (By looking at her Melissa Milano '80s bangs, I hope you realize this question is mostly rhetorical)

 

[VoidGear.]

^Right! Nothing wrong in taking issue with it, just don't be a crazy asshole about it. This goes for both sides. Just like it's wrong to scream like a spoiled brat and throw a temper tantrum over the change, it's wrong to mock and belittle those who have an honest, genuine issue with the decision.

Just out of curiosity, what would be an "honest, genuine issue" that is not based on racism of some kind? I'm really trying to get behind why anyone would not be okay with this other than "evil black people taking my fictional mermaid from me!!1!!1!1"
White erasure simply isn't a thing while black erasure absolutely is (which is the reason why people would RIGHTFULLY be mad if a black character were turned white) and I can't fathom how being mad at a non-white Ariel could not be racism in any way.
So please, anyone in this thread, educate me, because to me, all issues scream "I HATE BLACK PEOPLE".

 

[Elysium]

It was funny when you were mad at me, but now you've crossed a line. You have absolutely no idea what the staff members of this site go through just to keep everything up and running so that the next generation of Boomers, like yourself, can be mad when someone asks them why they cling to white fairy tale characters.

It's funny you think that statement was just about how you've acted in this topic. You've all been hateful the past few months. That is what I'm referring to and I think that behavior is what crossed a line.

 

[Zephyr]

For me, it's mostly about the fact that she does not have red hair. Red hair is the defining part of Ariel's design. It's like making a Cinderella movie with an orange dress when she is known for a beautiful, blue dress.

We don't know what Ariel looks like in the live-action movie yet; we've only seen her actress. So there is still time to reserve judgement.