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THE LAST OF US PART II Backlash



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Face My Fears

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Hi there,

I just beat The Last of Us Part II. I heard before about the backlash, but because I was avoiding spoilers I have no idea what exactly it was about. Can someone explain to me what was so wrong about the game and what people did?
 

Xblade13

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Hi there,

I just beat The Last of Us Part II. I heard before about the backlash, but because I was avoiding spoilers I have no idea what exactly it was about. Can someone explain to me what was so wrong about the game and what people did?
Basically, people didn't like the direction the game took with the story. They didn't like that you played as Abby, especially after she killed Joel. A lot of people were super attached to his character, so when he died in such a brutal manner and then the killer was focused on for the latter half of the game in a sympathetic light, it rubbed people the wrong way.

Then of course you have the group that didn't like that Ellie was lesbian either (not that I agree with that opinion, I thought that was fine), so that probably skewed reviews too, and explains why the big review sites gave it a high score but the user score is much lower.
 

Perkilator

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Oh yeah, there were also two very important factors towards the backlash:
  • In-game, there was a sex scene and Laura Bailey got backlash for being apart of it
  • The game itself won GOTY 2020 despite the fact that Naughty Dog encouraged crunch culture
 

Face My Fears

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Basically, people didn't like the direction the game took with the story. They didn't like that you played as Abby, especially after she killed Joel. A lot of people were super attached to his character, so when he died in such a brutal manner and then the killer was focused on for the latter half of the game in a sympathetic light, it rubbed people the wrong way.

Then of course you have the group that didn't like that Ellie was lesbian either (not that I agree with that opinion, I thought that was fine), so that probably skewed reviews too, and explains why the big review sites gave it a high score but the user score is much lower.
Well I didn't care about Ellie being lesbian. They even showed that in Left Behind, so that was years before Last of Us II.

I love Joel too, he is an amazing character. I was very angry at Abby and having to play as her was painful. At the moment, I didn't like it at all, but looking back I think that was a unique experience for gaming and for the story. Not that I actually enjoyed it even with hindsight. Even when they tried to redeem Abby, it just didn't work for me because of the structure. I think if they moved things around and maybe gave us some more time with Joel/Ellie in action, it would have worked better.

I get why people would be mad because I was mad, but I heard that people issues death threats and went just berserk over this. I was really sad and upset that Joel died and I kind of wish I never played Last of Us II (because I do think THIS story was unnecessary and takes away from the first game's ending). But I just don't get why people went THAT far.
Oh yeah, there were also two very important factors towards the backlash:
  • In-game, there was a sex scene and Laura Bailey got backlash for being apart of it
  • The game itself won GOTY 2020 despite the fact that Naughty Dog encouraged crunch culture
Why would the actress get backlash for doing her job?

What's crunch culture? How does that affect the nominees for GOTY?
 

Max

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What's crunch culture? How does that affect the nominees for GOTY?
Crunch culture is when game studios basically force their employees to work way too much. Longer hours, longer work weeks, all in order to push the game out in what they consider a timely manner. It's really hard on employees both mentally and physically and is very frowned upon. So when someone who treats their employees horrendously in the work place then walks home with an award for the game, it's almost like encouraging their bad work practice.

On the other hand, I felt like I was more excited than anyone for The Last of Us Part II. I had the ridiculous Ellie edition preordered with the backpack and the statue and everything, I platted the first game on PS3 and worked hard to get EVERY online trophy on both the PS3 and PS4 versions. I loved that game.

When all of the leaks for the second game dropped though, I got spoiled on so much of it. I avoid spoilers like the plague, but I didn't know about the leak and everywhere I turned something else was getting spoiled for me. People were outraged not that it was spoiled, but the contents of the spoilers. I cancelled my preorder of the special edition. I also did NOT like the direction that story was going.

Take my opinion on the story with a grain of salt, because I didn't play it myself, I couldn't bring myself to spend money on it. But I YouTubed my way through the story, and it just was not even a shadow of the original game. They should have just made a story with all new characters, because this just didn't add anything to the original for me, it was just so unnecessary. And characters made awful decisions, the story was soooo full of fluff. Also I was shown another Ellie/Joel adventure in the trailers, then Joel was swapped out for Dana because he was actually just dead.

All in all, storywise since that's all I can speak on, the quality is nowhere near that of the first game on any level. I think the gameplay looked great from the videos I saw, but I don't play games like that just for the gameplay, I need that narrative to pull me in as well.
 

Face My Fears

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Crunch culture is when game studios basically force their employees to work way too much. Longer hours, longer work weeks, all in order to push the game out in what they consider a timely manner. It's really hard on employees both mentally and physically and is very frowned upon. So when someone who treats their employees horrendously in the work place then walks home with an award for the game, it's almost like encouraging their bad work practice.

On the other hand, I felt like I was more excited than anyone for The Last of Us Part II. I had the ridiculous Ellie edition preordered with the backpack and the statue and everything, I platted the first game on PS3 and worked hard to get EVERY online trophy on both the PS3 and PS4 versions. I loved that game.

When all of the leaks for the second game dropped though, I got spoiled on so much of it. I avoid spoilers like the plague, but I didn't know about the leak and everywhere I turned something else was getting spoiled for me. People were outraged not that it was spoiled, but the contents of the spoilers. I cancelled my preorder of the special edition. I also did NOT like the direction that story was going.

Take my opinion on the story with a grain of salt, because I didn't play it myself, I couldn't bring myself to spend money on it. But I YouTubed my way through the story, and it just was not even a shadow of the original game. They should have just made a story with all new characters, because this just didn't add anything to the original for me, it was just so unnecessary. And characters made awful decisions, the story was soooo full of fluff. Also I was shown another Ellie/Joel adventure in the trailers, then Joel was swapped out for Dana because he was actually just dead.

All in all, storywise since that's all I can speak on, the quality is nowhere near that of the first game on any level. I think the gameplay looked great from the videos I saw, but I don't play games like that just for the gameplay, I need that narrative to pull me in as well.
That's horrible that they treated the employees like crap, then walked away with tons of awards. Didn't anyone call out Naughty Dog about the horrendous treatment of their staff?

I'm not a fan of horror games or horror in general. I just heard that The Last of Us had an amazing story. I gave the first one a try like a few months ago. I got it on sale and was like why not. I was expecting to start it and never finish it. Well, I ended up getting hooked. I played it on the easiest mode because I'm not good at games like that, and I didn't want to be fighting the infected in dark rooms over and over again (I was losing a lot on normal mode). Anyway, I basically went right into The Last of Us II after the first one.

To be honest, I actually was wondering why there was a sequel. I didn't look up spoilers or even what the sequel was about, I just knew there was one. I was kind of hoping Joel/Ellie were NOT in it because I felt like their story ended perfectly, even if it was ambiguous what would happen after Joel lied to her. I only knew Ellie was in it because she's on the box art.

Anyway, of course Joel's death ruined me because he was my favourite and one of my favourite characters in video games. I get what they were trying to do, I just feel like it was done poorly and honestly not really fair to fans. I'm lucky that I didn't wait at all for the sequel, but I can imagine fans waiting from since the original came out and getting THAT as the sequel. My opinion is that I wish I never played the sequel. It sours the first one to me because I'm always going to be thinking about the information the sequel provided now.

I have no issue with introducing new characters and Abby herself didn't bother me, it's just the way she and most of the new characters were used. Joel's death could have been used in a much better way. The whole revenge thing and the cycle of violence wasn't really a groundbreaking theme to approach, especially in a game world like The Last of Us. Not only that, but it seemed weird to use a game where both Ellie and Abby kill regular humans constantly without a care in the world, to make a statement about how killing someone has its consequences. It makes me wonder if every single human that Ellie/Abby killed during the game will have some relative/friend come hunting them down... which actually makes me chuckle. So I think this was NOT the series to really explore that because it just looks like killing someone only matters if it's the MAIN CHARACTER. Even when Jesse got killed, there was no revenge arc. So is it only if a FATHER FIGURE gets killed, then you go on a rampage in this world?

Also, I felt like they made Ellie bland in this one. I don't know if it's because she's alone a lot more or that her partners during the journey like Dina/Jesse don't get fleshed out as much or ever really get an opportunity to show as much character as the dynamic of Joel/Ellie did in the first one. Ellie doesn't even really say much on her own. It's always a dry one liner, vastly different from the girl we knew. Which I guess makes sense because she grew up and Joel died, but there must have been some way for them to have her depressed and still have some more personality.

The gameplay was fun, although I think it got kind of boring as the game went on (I think it was way too long). Not only that, but switching between Abby/Ellie wasn't much fun. Maybe it's just me, but I like controlling a character and levelling them up all the way to the end of the game. It just feels weird being plucked out of developing a character, to start fresh on a new one, then plucked away from that one to start again. Also, Ellie/Abby didn't play that much differently besides Ellie not being much of a melee combatant while Abby can fight hand to hand.

Another thing that kind of made me feel off about the game was... no one seemed to care about the infected anymore. There were way more human enemies than infected. I suppose you can say that people just became used to them, but in The Last of Us it was already 20 years since the infected appeared and they were still a major concern. I don't get how 4 years later, the infected are sort of just a mild nuisance. It's probably because the focus of the story wasn't about them, but neither was it really in the first one (besides the cure aspect). I mean only a handful of people knew about Ellie, so no one else in the world is trying to create a vaccine or care? WLF and the Seraphites were just fighting each other for land, nothing really unique about that battle.

Anyway, I ranted a bit, but I didn't know that Joel was placed in the trailer instead of Dina. Do you know which trailer that happened in? I would have been PISSED if I saw that before getting the game.
 

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Some people are not ready for that grey storytelling. They expected the franchise would be about Joel/Ellie going on adventures, turns out it isn't. It's a much darker world than Uncharted.

- Joel died in a brutal way and like a normal human being. There was no heroic scene for him, despite being one of the main characters in the previous game.

- Abby. The muscular girl that the game forces you to play as. Apparently girls can't be muscular and she was even considered transgender... The game doesn't care we are mad she killed Joel. We're forced to play as her to go trough the story. It wants to show us her point of view.

Some people think Joel was a good guy. He wasn't and neither are Ellie or Abby. No one is innocent in TLOU world and the game challenges us to see through that. What Joel did in the end of TLOU will always be questionable.

- The ending. Some people wanted Ellie to kill Abby and feel that Joel was avenged, but once again the game doesn't give what those people wanted. Ellie had already killed enough and she wasn't feeling any better. But doesn't stop there, she also ends up alone which she had said before it was what scared her the most and without two fingers to play guitar - Her remaining connection to Joel.

- I could talk about the sex scene, but the game is rated M so I won't bother. It's just sex...

TLOU2 is a masterpiece, but it may be hard to enjoy the story if you don't have an open mind. Naughty Dog was really brave to tell it. It's obvious by just looking to the script how controversial it would be, as they didn't pull any punches.

There are more people loving the game than hating it and it's also the most awarded game ever, so I hope the backlash in the beinning doesn't change whatever they want to do with TLOU3.
 
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Hamster Lord

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Everyone else has summed up why the controversy happened so I won't get into that but I genuinely feel that if Joel's death hadn't been leaked (as well as playing as Abby) the game would have fared much differently in the court of public opinion. I know several people that were able to avoid any spoilers and they absolutely loved it from beginning to end. I loved it as well despite being spoiled. Sometimes bad things happen or your past catches up to you. That's life. The game demonstrates that in a powerful, brutal way.

EDIT: I also feel this game's story would have been liked better had it not come out in the beginning of the pandemic which was a really scary time and here is this 30 hour depressing epic. Not that I minded, but I can see other people just avoiding it on principle during that time.

Spoiler Spoiler Show
 

Face My Fears

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Some people are not ready for that grey storytelling. They expected the franchise would be about Joel/Ellie going on adventures, turns out it isn't. It's a much darker world than Uncharted.

- Joel died in a brutal way and like a normal human being. There was no heroic scene for him, despite being one of the main characters in the previous game.

- Abby. The muscular girl that the game forces you to play as. Apparently girls can't be muscular and she was even considered transgender... The game doesn't care we are mad she killed Joel. We're forced to play as her to go trough the story. It wants to show us her point of view.

Some people think Joel was a good guy. He wasn't and neither are Ellie or Abby. No one is innocent in TLOU world and the game challenges us to see through that. What Joel did in the end of TLOU will always be questionable.

- The ending. Some people wanted Ellie to kill Abby and feel that Joel was avenged, but once again the game doesn't give what those people wanted. Ellie had already killed enough and she wasn't feeling any better. But doesn't stop there, she also ends up alone which she had said before it was what scared her the most and without two fingers to play guitar - Her remaining connection to Joel.

- I could talk about the sex scene, but the game is rated M so I won't bother. It's just sex...

TLOU2 is a masterpiece, but it may be hard to enjoy the story if you don't have an open mind. Naughty Dog was really brave to tell it. It's obvious by just looking to the script how controversial it would be, as they didn't pull any punches.

There are more people loving the game than hating it and it's also the most awarded game ever, so I hope the backlash in the beinning doesn't change whatever they want to do with TLOU3.
I definitely don't think it' s a masterpiece. Maybe for video games, but I don't play many games, so I really cannot say. But storytelling wise or just the narrative in general, definitely not a masterpiece.

On paper, it's phenomenal, but I think the execution was the issue. We wasted way too much time as Abby. Her point of view is pretty easy to understand - Joel killed her father. You don't even need to go beyond that, anyone can process that and understand her anger. I love Joel and he's my favourite character in the series, but I get why Abby did what she did (yes, I was mad at the time that she did it and obviously don't like that she did it). However, I know that the world that they're in is brutal and no one is invincible - we even see that constantly in The Last of Us 1 where Tess, Henry, and Sam all die, even when they're made to be a "part of the team".

I don't care about Abby's physical design or looks, I just think that we wasted too much time with her that it got kind of boring where I just wanted to rush to the next cutscene. I would have entered into Abby's story shortly before she meets Yara/Lev and cut some parts out of there to save time. She could have cutscenes strictly exploring her friendship with Mel, Owen and Manny, then keep it moving since wasting time on them to just get killed off is kind of pointless... especially when what we got didn't build up as much emotional loss when they died (or when we find them dead as Abby). I also would have changed the reason for Lev being hated from being trans to something else. It's kind of generic to use the trans character's identity as the reason people hate them. It would have been way better to see a trans character's storyline NOT be about being trans.

I recently found out people hated the sex scene, I have no idea why. I didn't really care besides the fact that I didn't particularly want to see digital boobs pulled out, but whatever. I actually think that scene is one of the best scenes that helps Abby as a character. It gives her depth and complexity because she has an affair with Owen while Mel is pregnant, so Abby is not painted as this perfect woman whose dad died, so you have to like her. Rather she has depth: she can be a crappy friend, but still be justified in her quest for revenge. The same way that (most) people agreed with Joel saving Ellie, I'm sure there were people that actually rooted for Abby to get with Owen over Mel (due to their chemistry).

There's way more that I can say about the game, but it's super late and I have to wake up early. But I have two major issues with the execution: 1) there wasn't enough time with Joel and 2) the build to the climax was negatively affected by the narrative structure.

I feel like the game should have shown Joel dying at the start as usual, then cut to the tutorial section where you play as Joel (or Ellie, you can swap between them) and they are on an adventure. This adventure is basically backstory to life in Jackson, but also Joel making the choice to tell Ellie the truth. This would give the players looking for Joel/Ellie time something AND be useful to the narrative where we see Joel making the choice to be honest with Ellie (not needing to be pushed to do so) AND Ellie not being able to forgive him. Then we flash forward to Ellie planning to go hunt Abby and the game continues as normal. This would really emphasize the forgiveness and moving on themes that are heavily present, especially at the end. Not only that, but I think it would give some good backstory on characters like Dina and Jesse, who were all seriously lacking in comparison to the characters that were introduced in Abby's story.

Because we wasted so much time seeing Abby's side of things, it takes away from Ellie's choice at the end - kill Abby or let her go. Which is why that moment actually fell flat to me. The visual of Joel's beaten body with his eye open was what actually saved that scene for me. I know that flashback was supposed to indicate Ellie's forgiveness of Joel (since the other flashbacks had Joel dead with his eyes closed) similar to Abby's flashbacks, where her last one had the dad alive. It's just that her choice wasn't as powerful as it could have been. I feel like they didn't spend enough time developing Ellie's life in Jackson to make it seem like she was giving up a lot (back to the Dina/Jesse characters not being fleshed out enough). Which again makes me believe we spent too much time with Abby.

Anyway, I'm glad you enjoyed it and aren't aggressive about liking it. I've seen people on both sides of the spectrum be really nasty about it, when I think what this game did best is create a piece of art that has a lot to discuss.

Everyone else has summed up why the controversy happened so I won't get into that but I genuinely feel that if Joel's death hadn't been leaked (as well as playing as Abby) the game would have fared much differently in the court of public opinion. I know several people that were able to avoid any spoilers and they absolutely loved it from beginning to end. I loved it as well despite being spoiled. Sometimes bad things happen or your past catches up to you. That's life. The game demonstrates that in a powerful, brutal way.

EDIT: I also feel this game's story would have been liked better had it not come out in the beginning of the pandemic which was a really scary time and here is this 30 hour depressing epic. Not that I minded, but I can see other people just avoiding it on principle during that time.

Spoiler Spoiler Show
Well, I didn't know about Joel's death or that Abby even existed. I did suspect/theorize that Joel dies because I saw the box art of Ellie alone covered in blood - although I thought it would happen later in the game. I didn't watch any trailers or even see pictures from the game... I didn't even look at the back of the game case lol.

Joel's death - yes I was very sad and upset about it because I love Joel - but that didn't actually affect the rest of the game for me (if Joel never appeared again, then I would have been mad). I had no expectations whatsoever. I just think the game wasn't executed as best as it could have been.

Regarding Ellie, I actually was angry with her for giving up Dina to go after Abby again. It almost felt like she was guilted into it by Tommy - who initially didn't want her to go the first time and told her to stay. I think Tommy being the one to push Ellie to find Abby is something that people don't really mention. Another "part" of Joel nudges Ellie to go after Abby. If Tommy never told Ellie about a possible Abby sighting or if no one ever mentioned Abby again, would Ellie have tried to find her? Instead it was this shadow of Joel pulling her back into the madness - which is why I think Dina was upset and said to not bring that crap into her house because she knew just a whiff of Abby would cause Ellie to go.
 
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Max

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I think one thing that could have helped a lot of people swallow the Abby pill is if the player had played as her and seen some of her life before the Joel incident. They could have even wrote it so that we didn't know that who she was after was Joel. I think it would have been a lot more impactful and made people have much more mixed feelings than just aggressive hate towards her if they got to know her beforehand. People would still be upset Joel was dead, but struggling with knowing now that what Abby went through was because of him.

Also to double up on the point of Ellie not killing Abby, it's not even necessarily just that it's unsatisfying, but the whole situation is so pointless. Ellie has killed SO many people, just blatantly murdered anyone in her way without a thought on her way to Abby. Then she's faced with a choice, finish her quest and kill Abby and thus lose her family, or let it go and stay with the people important to her. So she chooses the former, then doesn't kill Abby in the last second. Yes, let's kill upwards of a hundred people without a thought, then hesitate abd make a "good" choice when faced with the person you've hunted after all this time, especially after making the decision to potentially throw everything else away on your way here. It wasn't deep, it wasn't moving, and honestly in my opinion it didn't feel very believable. Do I think it would have been better if Ellie killed Abby? I don't know, at this point I just feel like I'm watching shitty people make shitty decisions over and over again and it's as bleak as possible just for the sake of it.

Do I like the story they decided to tell with the second game? No. Do I think the story could have been told better? Yes, their narrative structure could have been moved around and while I still don't think it would have been a great or necessary story, I think it at least could have been told better.
 

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Haven't played the game myself and only experienced it like... third hand. As someone who enjoyed the first game, I suppose I was not interested in the themes of the second game.

The first game had revenge, backstabbing, lies, deceit, all of that stuff yes. But the titular focus was this virus and maybe someday ending this plague or at least trying to. I enjoyed that plot threat. Joel lying to Ellie, her probably knowing he was lying but choose to trust him at the time.

I suppose I wasn't expecting a "father and daughter go on a fun journey together weeee!", but I suppose I was still interested in the clicker/medicine/science aspect of all this. To my knowledge, this plot was just covered in some flashback and that was that.

As we can see in the real world today, creating a vaccine, convincing people it will work, getting the vaccine to as many people as possible while there are still mass casualties... maybe most people wouldn't have found such a politically tense game all that fun to play.

It would still involve violence, stealth, and travel. There'd still be human bad guys and monster bad guys.

I dunno. I guess, as someone on the outside looking in, it was odd to insert this Abby character for the sake of creating a revenge story. Well, not even that. It was odd to focus so heavily on that part of the plot for some reason. I suppose I just don't care that much about Abby as an individual even though it sucks what happened to her father.

P.S, the people attacking the staff/actors/all that over this though are freakin' lunatics. I stayed as far away from this drama as humanly possibly because I did not want to be associated with... them. Yeah the game was meh but you wouldn't catch me sending death threats or starting campaigns over it. Like sheesh
 
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Face My Fears

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I think one thing that could have helped a lot of people swallow the Abby pill is if the player had played as her and seen some of her life before the Joel incident. They could have even wrote it so that we didn't know that who she was after was Joel. I think it would have been a lot more impactful and made people have much more mixed feelings than just aggressive hate towards her if they got to know her beforehand. People would still be upset Joel was dead, but struggling with knowing now that what Abby went through was because of him.

Also to double up on the point of Ellie not killing Abby, it's not even necessarily just that it's unsatisfying, but the whole situation is so pointless. Ellie has killed SO many people, just blatantly murdered anyone in her way without a thought on her way to Abby. Then she's faced with a choice, finish her quest and kill Abby and thus lose her family, or let it go and stay with the people important to her. So she chooses the former, then doesn't kill Abby in the last second. Yes, let's kill upwards of a hundred people without a thought, then hesitate abd make a "good" choice when faced with the person you've hunted after all this time, especially after making the decision to potentially throw everything else away on your way here. It wasn't deep, it wasn't moving, and honestly in my opinion it didn't feel very believable. Do I think it would have been better if Ellie killed Abby? I don't know, at this point I just feel like I'm watching shitty people make shitty decisions over and over again and it's as bleak as possible just for the sake of it.

Do I like the story they decided to tell with the second game? No. Do I think the story could have been told better? Yes, their narrative structure could have been moved around and while I still don't think it would have been a great or necessary story, I think it at least could have been told better.
I agree with you on the Abby thing. I actually thought they should have done it like that. Have it very vague that this woman we're playing as is just looking for someone. Have her describe and talk about that person in a way that we would NEVER consider Joel (even though what she says IS TRUE about Joel). If they actually had us like Abby from the start and get attached to her, then spring what she does to Joel... I think that would have made people even more conflicted (in a better way) about what happens to Joel. Imagine playing the intro/tutorial section as Abby and we see how badass she is (I liked her melee combat a lot) and also feel for her because she talks about losing her dad (at this point, we would not know or connect anything to the hospital). Then Abby stumbles upon everyone's beloved Joel and Tommy, and in the players' minds they get excited because this badass Abby that we like is now teaming up with Joel... only to kill him. If they built it up to the point where you actually side with Abby for revenge, I think that would have been a beautifully executed way to generate - I guess "positive" conflict towards Joel's death? Because the player would be truly conflicted on the situation - we now like Abby and got invested in her quest to kill her father's killer, but we also love Joel and don't want him to die.

I think what makes Ellie's choice not as effective or moving was the fact that we don't know for sure what happened to Ellie after. The farmhouse was empty, so I assume that means Dina abandoned Ellie and she's alone. I would even guess that Tommy would be angry at Ellie for not finishing the job. So who would Ellie really have left? I think that is also the issue with the ending. We don't know what Ellie is even losing, so it isn't that impactful. We barely knew Dina and it seemed like she was just a crush Ellie had on an acquaintance and the day that Joel died was when they actually started exploring their relationship further. I just wish Ellie's choice had a clearer purpose behind it, they didn't really show anything besides Joel with his eyes open. I feel like if Ellie saw Lev watching as she beat Abby to death - similar to what happened with her and Joel - then stopped, that could have worked - as it would show the cycle happening again. But that feels a little too on the nose.

Something that this discussion actually made me wonder and I can't remember... did Ellie know WHY Abby did it? I feel like Dina or somebody was asking if Ellie found out why they did it and she didn't get an answer, then they never actually acknowledge this again. I think that's a glaring detail and could have been used to actually guide Ellie's decision. It's also bizarre that Ellie didn't ask Abby why or one of her friends.
Haven't played the game myself and only experienced it like... third hand. As someone who enjoyed the first game, I suppose I was not interested in the themes of the second game.

The first game had revenge, backstabbing, lies, deceit, all of that stuff yes. But the titular focus was this virus and maybe someday ending this plague or at least trying to. I enjoyed that plot threat. Joel lying to Ellie, her probably knowing he was lying but choose to trust him at the time.

I suppose I wasn't expecting a "father and daughter go on a fun journey together weeee!", but I suppose I was still interested in the clicker/medicine/science aspect of all this. To my knowledge, this plot was just covered in some flashback and that was that.

As we can see in the real world today, creating a vaccine, convincing people it will work, getting the vaccine to as many people as possible while there are still mass casualties... maybe most people wouldn't have found such a politically tense game all that fun to play.

It would still involve violence, stealth, and travel. There'd still be human bad guys and monster bad guys.

I dunno. I guess, as someone on the outside looking in, it was odd to insert this Abby character for the sake of creating a revenge story. Well, not even that. It was odd to focus so heavily on that part of the plot for some reason. I suppose I just don't care that much about Abby as an individual even though it sucks what happened to her father.

P.S, they people attacking the staff/actors/all that over this though are freakin' lunatics. I stayed as far away from this drama as humanly possibly because I did not want to be associated with... them. Yeah the game was meh but you wouldn't catch me sending death threats or starting campaigns over it. Like sheesh
There were actually parts early on in The Last of Us Part II that actually made me think the infected were going to have a bigger role. Again, I knew nothing going into the game. My theory early on playing the game was that the infected would become a bigger threat and force Ellie/Abby to work together at a crucial point. If you're wondering, there were moments where Ellie questions why the infected were wearing armor and how they got into enclosed spaces (like bathrooms). Because it was so early on and Ellie was pointing these things out, I thought the infected were becoming conscious or something and maybe learning how to fight back against humans (guns). So I took that as some kind of foreshadowing. But it turned out to be nothing. The infected are basically just used for jump scares, enemies to kill in areas that humans won't be, and just like scenery. They really didn't do much in this one. Although, there is a really cool sequence with Abby where she goes to the site of the outbreak and you see how much the fungus has grown and an extremely infected... infected lol.

I always thought it would be an interesting discussion that should have been explored in the game - would making a vaccine have even mattered or changed the world? The resources at hand - especially in that hospital - didn't seem to indicate that a vaccine could be made in mass quantities. Not only that, but the world is about 20 years into post-apocalyptic life. People have changed. Having the vaccine wouldn't be some sort of cure to save humanity, but rather a tool to control people and have one group gain leverage over others. I actually think if the Fireflies got the vaccine, they would have used that to establish themselves as the number one faction and basically take over America. Possibly becoming dictators. I think that story would have been more interesting to explore and maybe even a more logical sequel story. Ellie's "immune" status is now public knowledge. Factions could have been hunting her to figure out a cure somehow and through Ellie being hunted, we can see that a cure wouldn't solve the desolation that the world has endured.

PS: It's refreshing being able to talk about the game without it being hateful or crazy. So thanks!
 

Crow_Black

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Lot of people didn't liked the story due to "certain choices" made as well as the excessive gore apparently.
 

Face My Fears

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Lot of people didn't liked the story due to "certain choices" made as well as the excessive gore apparently.
Which choices?

And the only gore that I didn't particularly like was when we would kill dogs... which is weird that I didn't care that you kill other people lol.
 

Crow_Black

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Which choices?

And the only gore that I didn't particularly like was when we would kill dogs... which is weird that I didn't care that you kill other people lol.
"ahem" aside from that lets just say there was a scene where one beloved character was shall we say curtains closed.
 

Face My Fears

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"ahem" aside from that lets just say there was a scene where one beloved character was shall we say curtains closed.
I love Joel, he is my favourite character in the entire series and I expected/wanted a lot more of him in The Last of Us Part II, but I was fine with his death - even how graphic it was. It wasn't as graphic as some of the other stuff that we've seen in the series - like the cannibals with carved up human corpses.
 

redcrown

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TLOU2 made me realize Joel was completely right in saving Ellie at the end of the first game, I was morally on the fence about it before.
 
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