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The inclusion of Arendelle is very bizarre



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alexis.anagram

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I just got through this one the other night, and while I don't think I have anything new to say about how badly this world was implemented, it's not significantly worse than most of the other Disney worlds when you get right down it. Superficially, its presentation was lazy (yes, SDG are basically NPCs from Anna and Elsa's perspective), but I was able to follow it better than Tangled, if only because the Arendelle plot is rendered almost entirely inconsequential while they tried to make Rapunzel and Flynns' stories a thing and failed. But it had the same problem as every other Disney world so far, which is that SDG have no actual reason to be there, it doesn't do anything to advance their mission or clarify some necessary shift in their approach to it, and so it only serves to dissipate any sense of urgency surrounding their goal. This game just sucks at fostering mystery and building stakes, which is reflected in how poorly the worlds are integrated across the board. There's no hook.

I've actually got a question, that maybe some people come answer here. I just started a replay of DDD, and it actually feels like there is more overall space in some of the worlds in that game... then the worlds in this game. For example, San Fransokyo feels really big at first, but it's essentially an empty world. There's little to actually explore, no secrets to uncover, and the space is mostly vertical instead of horizontal. In comparison, Traverse Town covers the entirety of the game from KH1, plus a huge underground mail area for Sora, a sizable new fountain plaza area, and another huge backstreets are for Riku. Likewise, comparing Corona and Country of Musketeers, it seems as though the Musketeers world overall has more map space. Sure, you can see a ways into the distance in Corona, but there's more unique areas to explore Dream Drop's world and it has a larger space overall.

I think the only world that really seems large to me in KH3 is the Caribbean, but even that might just be because of all the empty space in between islands instead of actual explorable areas themselves. What do you think?
I would say the issue of "unique areas" definitely resonates with me. KH3's worlds are clearly larger, but that isn't to their benefit because they don't provide interesting and fun gameplay opportunities (a few exceptions exist in places like Toy Box where the team really went "the extra mile"). It's 90% just run forward, run up, run forward, run up, battle some enemies, continue running, maybe the tiniest smidgeon of platforming if you're lucky and then rinse and repeat. Arendelle has a labrynthe that isn't remotely maze-like and that's it, the rest is just Land of Dragons scaled out to a wasteland that leads to a massive time sink just attempting to get from one cutscene to the next. Accessing treasure chests and hidden mickeys is often more a matter of rote luck than anything that requires thought or skillfulness; maybe you'll use air stepping or dashing in a couple of instances, but nothing that requires actual exploration or going off the beaten path-- I've actually spent time finding convoluted ways to get to places the levels themselves don't lead you and I'm always disappointed that there's never anything there to incentivize that. In and of itself that's not hugely changed from past titles, but it was much more excusable in KH2, where the worlds were small and contained and the combat was appropriately highlighted, or DDD, where Flowmotion made it a simple (and fun) task to zoom and dart through any given area (which is good, because they could also be really shallow in terms of gameplay design). KH3's Disney stuff is a definitive slog of uselessly massive battle arenas and the same cliff faces copy pasted world after world. That's not to say they aren't gorgeous, but they could have been the size of KH1's worlds, retained the same amount of content, and been just as pretty while placing much less demand on the player's patience. And then there could have been more worlds overall, including original ones which got the shaft.
 

kaseykockroach

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I love Anna’s “You came to visit!”.
It’s so cute, she’s trying so hard to care.
 

Neo_

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I literally just skipped the cutscenes for this world, and it doesn't sound like I missed much; at a certain point you just want to play a game instead of watching a movie.

I've actually spent time finding convoluted ways to get to places the levels themselves don't lead you and I'm always disappointed that there's never anything there to incentivize that.
Yes! Yes! Yes!

And it's also scary how fast you can get through this game if you just do the bare minimum.
 

LostArtist

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I actually like arendelle lmao, going around some parts of it reminds me of yosemite. Then again I like things like the tangled forest and no one likes that. Maybe because I really enjoy just going around everywhere and trying to get myself everywhere/exploring on its own.

However, as for the ice palace, they didn't let us go inside (and there also isn't a town in this world).
But why couldn't they at least let you stand on the fucking balcony. :[
I got up there and, invisible wall :[, square pls, wtf is this
[video=youtube;xE2-ecv9Ja0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE2-ecv9Ja0[/video]
 

FudgemintGuardian

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However, as for the ice palace, they didn't let us go inside (and there also isn't a town in this world).
But why couldn't they at least let you stand on the diddlying balcony. :[
I got up there and, invisible wall :[, square pls, wtf is this
[video=youtube;xE2-ecv9Ja0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE2-ecv9Ja0[/video]
Disney is so protective of Frozen that they won't let Sora touch anything.
 

Scorseselover

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With Frozen 2 coming out, hopefully they’ll bring back Arendelle in the next game and have Elsa and/or Anna as your party member. You know...like they should have been in the first place?! Instead of that big behemoth who was only in the movie for 5 minutes?!
 

Mirashade

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The Tangled series is only supposed to be three seasons though, which means it'll be over after next year. So far KH has never touched TV series--although I wish they would (to get Mirage and Mozenrath in KH if for no other reason).

KH actually has had content related to a TV series before. In Birth By Sleep you fight Experiment 221, a character originating from "Stitch! The Movie" which was more a pilot for the Lilo and Stitch animated series than it was a sequel, especially considering that some years later a movie that WAS the direct sequel, called "Lilo and Stitch 2", didn't regard any of the events related to "Stitch!" or the animated series.

The Tangled TV series, in a similar fashion, also began with a 'sequel' movie as its pilot, "Tangled: Before Ever After". Due to at least Experiment 221's inclusion, it's not totally outside the realm of precedent for KH to follow up on the Tangled series.

Also not to mention that the KHUX mobile game includes references to Disney TV shows, but I don't think that has relevance to what'll actually show up in a major fashion.
 

DizneyXBirds95

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The Tangled TV series, in a similar fashion, also began with a 'sequel' movie as its pilot, "Tangled: Before Ever After". Due to at least Experiment 221's inclusion, it's not totally outside the realm of precedent for KH to follow up on the Tangled series.
The only thing that makes it difficult for the Kingdom of Corona to return in a future KH game (particularly a numbered title) is whether they change the visual style to the one in the TV series or keep it the same style as the original movie, along with the fact there is the difficulties on creating KH models for the characters introduced into the TV series like Cassandra, Varian, Adira, etc.. to match the style of the original movie.

Secondly both the Tangled and Big Hero 6 shows were developed at Disney Television Animation along with the fact it's a different development team that worked on those shows compared to the people that worked on the original movies at Walt Disney Animation Studios (even though there are a few people worked on these films that are involved in the respective shows). Not to mention that there haven't been any Disney Television Animation shows adapted into the KH games.

But honestly, I don't think the world is coming back sadly.

Also not to mention that the KHUX
mobile game includes references to Disney TV shows, but I don't think that has relevance to what'll actually show up in a major fashion.

Tbh, the Ducktales 2017 medals were just made for promotion of the show and secondly, I doubt we will see these incarnations in the KH games as both the Triplets and Scrooge McDuck aren't voiced by the actors in the reboot and introducing the 2017 incarnations would retcon and contradict their roles in the KH games.
 
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Sign

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With Frozen 2 coming out, hopefully they’ll bring back Arendelle in the next game and have Elsa and/or Anna as your party member. You know...like they should have been in the first place?! Instead of that big behemoth who was only in the movie for 5 minutes?!

In all fairness, Elsa shouldn't be a party member anyways as it'd directly contradict how she behaves in the film.

Best case scenario is if Disney loosens its control on Frozen and actually lets Sora and friends influence the story, rather than finding convenient reasons for them to be separated from the cast and forced to watch events unfold from a distance.
 

Mirashade

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Secondly both the Tangled and Big Hero 6 shows were developed at Disney Television Animation along with the fact it's a different development team that worked on those shows compared to the people that worked on the original movies at Walt Disney Animation Studios (even though there are a few people worked on these films that are involved in the respective shows).
All of those same things are true for "Stitch! The Movie" vs. "Lilo and Stitch", but Experiment 225 has still made it into the games.

You're right though that adapting the two different styles together for new characters might be difficult, and hasn't quite been done before. Of course, on that front, Sora himself blends styles by being a 3D character implemented into originally 2D worlds, so it all depends on how much investment wants to be put into bringing Tangled back in the next games. Judging from the direct retelling of the movie that's in this game however, there's not much.

Also, to be clear, I only included the KHUX medals as an extra example that KH has "touched" a TV series before, in contrast to the post I responded to saying it has never done so. I would not expect nor at all want DuckTales to overwrite the current characters.
 

kaseykockroach

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It's indeed the least good Disney chapter in the game, but I kind of like that we stay out of things. I think it would have been a tad insulting to the film's story if Elsa and Anna really needed SDG to come save them and bring them together. In the end, Larxene was actually right on the money with "stop trying to be the hero, let her figure things out for herself". Even if she was right for ill-intended reasons, of course. Give me this over what they did with Mulan in KH2, that's for certain.
There are certainly ways SDG could have gotten involved (especially if, of course, they'd have an original story, but we'll have to take what we got, alas), but as is, it was just the trio's job to make sure the Organization and Heartless didn't pester them.
Plus, I appreciate Hans didn't do anything. He's the weakest part of that movie, so I didn't mind in the least that he shows up just to turn into a giant freaky wolf beast. Now, if Kristoff didn't show up, we'd be golden!
Also love what they did with Marshmallow. This game made better use of him than the movie and shorts have bothered to.
 

Elysium

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With Frozen 2 coming out, hopefully they’ll bring back Arendelle in the next game and have Elsa and/or Anna as your party member. You know...like they should have been in the first place?! Instead of that big behemoth who was only in the movie for 5 minutes?!
So true.

I don't necessarily believe the world would've been any different had Disney not been very involved with KH3 because of all the modern films Nomura/Square wanted to pimp for sales, but if Disney was the reason neither Anna or Elsa were party members, hopefully that will be different in the next game considering the sequel seems to make them even more battle-worthy.

I actually like arendelle lmao, going around some parts of it reminds me of yosemite. Then again I like things like the tangled forest and no one likes that. Maybe because I really enjoy just going around everywhere and trying to get myself everywhere/exploring on its own.
Must've been the same with me. That's why I liked most of the Disney worlds in the game.
 

Veevee

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I'm kinda relieved to hear that I wasn't the only one who hated that world. Everything's so ... random. You get thrown off that dawn mountain every five minutes or so, the pacing really suffers even more (I didn't think that was imaginable) from that "collect Olaf" section and the plot doesn't make sense the way it is explained and doesn't help the overall plot. I have only seen Frozen once, several years ago and had no idea who the guy who turned into a heartless at the end was, why he did what he did and how Elsa could just scream "it's love!" and everything turned back to being fine while they were on a ...ship? It left me so confused, the only good thing was Larxene who, much to my disappointment, did absolutely nothing of interest. The world was kinda beautiful, but had no involvement for the player and felt like a huge drag. Stupid Disney ...
 

Megavoltage

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the only good thing was Larxene who, much to my disappointment, did absolutely nothing of interest.
Yeah, this deflated me. I like CoM but it's kind of an awkward game with its setting, Larxene couldn't troll any Disney world denizens since it's all just illusions. So I was hyped as fuck to see Larxene in a real Disney world with the early KH3 trailers. Finally this fun villain would be terrorizing the characters of a movie. I wanted this so bad and for so long! And she's the perfect kind of psycho to bully Elsa when the ice sorceress is having her crisis. But then the savage nymph just lurks in the background without interacting. What a waste. Maybe next game...
 

FudgemintGuardian

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I'm kinda relieved to hear that I wasn't the only one who hated that world. Everything's so ... random. You get thrown off that dawn mountain every five minutes or so, the pacing really suffers even more (I didn't think that was imaginable) from that "collect Olaf" section and the plot doesn't make sense the way it is explained and doesn't help the overall plot. I have only seen Frozen once, several years ago and had no idea who the guy who turned into a heartless at the end was, why he did what he did and how Elsa could just scream "it's love!" and everything turned back to being fine while they were on a ...ship? It left me so confused, the only good thing was Larxene who, much to my disappointment, did absolutely nothing of interest. The world was kinda beautiful, but had no involvement for the player and felt like a huge drag. Stupid Disney ...
All the worlds that followed its movie have this huge problem of assuming you've seen the film so expect you to fill in the blanks.


But if it didn't happen then it didn't happen. Don't expect me to do your work for you, Disney.
 

MATGSY

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Game theorist MatPat offers his 2 cents on what went wrong woth Arendelle:

[video=youtube;Neau6ttz6Bk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Neau6ttz6Bk[/video]
 

Zettaflare

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If Nomura did intend for a different plot for Arendelle I wish Disney allowed it. Not sure if it would have been good but it might have been better than what we got.
 

LostArtist

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i'm like curious but i also dont want to watch 20 minutes of matpat.

dilemmas.

Basically, Arendelle's original plot involved Elsa turning into the wolf (instead of Hans), the snow storm being part of the way up to elsa's palace (instead of the way down in the game), and the ice labyrinth being connected to Elsa's Ice palace(underground with one of the platforms in the highest level leading to elsa's palace, since it's snowflake shaped and all), and it being the dungeon before the final fight with elsa as the wolf, making better use of Marshmallow as he would have been with you during that entire dungeon.

Evidenced by Lack of Hans dialog and weird transformation scene, Larxene's dialogue of Elsa choosing light or darkness not really going anywhere, Wolf making more sense thematically with Elsa than with Hans, wind storms usually pushing you down a mountain in games and real life rather than up it, the Ice palace having an interior map despite not being able to go in, the ice labyrinth being the most random thing ever (orb portal in the middle of the world), the ice labyrinth not utilizing the space of the upper floor properly, Marshmallow being underutilized as a party member, Frozen being chosen before it came out/was a success, and Nomura stating Frozen was one of the more restrictive properties.
 
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