• We have brought back Future of KINGDOM HEARTS as our main Kingdom Hearts section. Discuss any projects including Phase 2 developments, the rumored Disney Plus series, all TWEWY-related news, theories about the future of Kingdom Hearts, and any general topics in this section. For anything related to Kingdom Hearts Memory of Melody, please discuss it in the KINGDOM HEARTS Memory of Melody section.
  • Although unrelated to Kingdom Hearts, we are aware that there might be fans of The Last of Us on our forums. We ask that you please keep all spoilers for The Last of Us 2 spoiler-tagged. Any untagged spoilers will result in a temporary ban from the site.

The Foretellers And the Seven Deadly Sins They Represent



REGISTER TO REMOVE ADS
Status
Not open for further replies.

Lacan Valeth

Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2020
Messages
66
Awards
0
Face My Fears:
I'm arguing that - *this is interpretation, not fact* - Anna looking away from Sora after he comforts her worst terrors in a way that very much takes her out of herself and that Anna *cannot believe* that Sora has just said and done; and that Anna wanted Sora to come to her side when Hans was threatening to murder Elsa, not Kristoff, to give her that special strength to protect what matters so that she can more effectively protect Elsa - or, at worst, to be the one to kiss her and to protect Anna herself, not to give Anna the strength and assured-ness and belief in herself and self-confidence to more effectively protect Elsa - to the point that Anna looks heartbroken when Sora doesn't arrive - is why she might have romantic feelings for Sora. And that, when Anna maybe hadn't begun to develop any romantic feelings for Sora, Anna singing 'I Wanna' Build A Snowman' when, according to Piccolo Sky, she doesn't sing it to anyone but Elsa, and it's a *very important* song to the two of them and their bond, and *very private* an *very personal,* but Anna trusts Sora enough and feels safe enough around Sora and feels a strong enough emotional connection to Sora to sing it to him; and that Anna admits to Sora's terror and insecurities that *she won't even admit to herself by herself,* is evidence of strong friendship feelings and maybe romantic feelings shortly afterwards.

There's *no proof at all* that Anna/Kristoff is canon in KINGDOM HEARTS III or in KINGDOM HEARTS III: RE MIND.

It's a completely different issue from Sora's and Riku's platonic friendship love.

You're making the mistake Astertide and others shot me down for. You're seeing your *interpretations* of the Game as supposedly 'canon fact.'

Astertide:
A new idea to improve your pictures ridiculing me and mocking me. The Keyblade Graveyard is flat on the 'World Map' and in the Ocean Between, and it's where you battle Luxu/Braig/Xigbar and Young Xehanort, and Sora, Riku, and Mickey briefly battle Xehanort in a scene. I believe that you're creative enough to make use of those matters if you want to. ~_^ :) :p

Disney233:
I have no idea what the 'Flat Earth Society' is, so the reference escapes me.

Paul

"It's all my fault."-Anna
KINGDOM HEARTS III
 

pastel.goblin

Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2020
Messages
76
Awards
0
Do tell where there's any proof that Riku *does* look at Sora romantically
No no no, I want to know the difference between loving eyes and romantic loving eyes.

Anna singing 'I Wanna' Build A Snowman' when, according to Piccolo Sky, she doesn't sing it to anyone but Elsa, and it's a *very important* song to the two of them and their bond, and *very private* an *very personal,*
This is the sort of thing that happens when you rely on second hand info rather than interpreting the thing for itself. "Wanna build a snowman" is not some sacred personal hymn between the sisters, it's a number in a musical to quickly and efficiently show both the passage of time and the rift developing between them. Anna doesn't sing it to anyone else in the movie because there's literally no reason to. Anna sings it in KH3 because the songs in Frozen were stupid popular, and it's a quick way to catch up Sora and the player on the plot, since we don't have feature length time for each world. Anna sings it out loud at the end to connect the god awful flashback singing/talking to the present, and because it's Kingdom Hearts, with all the awkward corny moments between Disney and anime characters we all know and love. It's really not that deep.
 

Lacan Valeth

Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2020
Messages
66
Awards
0
Pastel.Goblin:
I'm not talking about the difference because I don't have the need to. So far as I can tell, there's no need to, because I don't need to counter any argument that Riku looks at Sora with loving romantic eyes. You have no proof that he does, anywhere.

Piccolo Sky wouldn't spoil what 'Do You Wanna' Build A Snowman?' is, specifically, but he made it clear it *is* a sacrosanct personal hymn to Anna and Elsa's love for each other. Once more, he's written a very in-depth FINAL FANTASY Fanfiction for much or all of the series that's around three million eight hundred fifty thousand words of storytelling and that he spent from 2006 to 2014 writing. And he's written plenty of other Fanfictions besides. He knows what he's talking about. If he says it's a special private song for Anna and Elsa, I believe that.

The following is an interpretation, not fact. - I'm going to stop saying this. I've said it enough by now. I'll bring it up again if it sounds like, or I do, state interpretation as fact once more. -

Anna doesn't sing it to anyone else in FROZEN because she doesn't *connect* to anyone else in the movie as much as Elsa, but she connects to Sora at least a small amount akin to how she connects to Elsa.

If you don't believe that KINGDOM HEARTS' periods are meaningful and you believe that they're just awkward and corny and not that deep - which is *not* interpretation; *what* their depth and meaning consists of is open to interpretation, *that* they're meaningful and deep *isn't,* and to say otherwise is to insult KINGDOM HEARTS very badly - then why are you playing it?

Role-Playing Games exist to tell a story. Why play one if not for the story?

*Once again,* Nomura would not include a song, no matter how popular it is, unless there was a valid storytelling reason behind it. He sells out at times, particularly with his illustrations, but not *that much.* He values the creative writing process.

Astertide:
You said I wasted around five hours of your life with my idiocy, so I'll attempt to give them back by spending a lot of time pleading for those 'Meme' improvements. ~_^ :) :p

Where are they? ~_^ :) :p *Bursts into fountains of streams of arcing tears from both eyes like an anime child crying.* ~_^ :) :p

This reminds me of one of my favorite 'typographical errors of d00m.' ~_^ :) :p

I was discussing the DS version of CHRONO TRIGGER on the GameFAQs CHRONO TRIGGER Message Board in late 2008 shortly before, or around the time it came out - I don't remember which - and I misspelled 'CHRONO TRIGGER' as 'CHRONO TIGGER.'

Someone pointed that out and I *had a blast* being *amused as heck* about that.

Hint hint for a 'Meme' ridiculing my idiocy. ~_^ :) :p

I may also give Sora a Chrono Tigger Keychain in THE GIRL WHO STOLE THE STAR if there's a One-Hundred Acre Wood arc.

While I wait to see if or how you respond to this, here's a poem titled, 'The Most Wonderful Thing About Chrono Tiggers.'

~*~*~*~

THE MOST WONDERFUL THING ABOUT CHRONO TIGGERS

The most wonderful thing about Lavos
Is that Lavos does much spiny shines
Its top is made of needles
And its bottom is made of spines
Its fiery, fiery, fiery, fun fun fun fun fun
And the most wonderful thing about Lavos
Is that there are more than one!

Hoo hoo hoo hoo!​

~*~*~*~

Lousy and extremely bland, I know, but I can't think of anything better at present, and I might not be able to for a while.

Paul

"But no history book could have prepared me for what ensued... Unimaginable is the power of Lavos! Before him, all are as leaves cast to the bitter winds that howl about Death's black wings."-Janus/Magus
CHRONO TRIGGER [DS Version]
 
Last edited:

pastel.goblin

Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2020
Messages
76
Awards
0
I'm not talking about the difference because I don't have the need to
Course you do. You're claiming that Anna is in love with Sora because of the way she looks at him. When others countered with Riku also looking at Sora the same way, you claimed that it's different, but won't say why. If it's so obvious shouldn't it be simple to explain? I can think of one possible reason but I'm not going to throw around accusations.

Piccolo Sky wouldn't spoil what 'Do You Wanna' Build A Snowman?' is, specifically, but he made it clear it *is* a sacrosanct personal hymn to Anna and Elsa's love for each other. Once more, he's written a very in-depth FINAL FANTASY Fanfiction for much or all of the series that's around three million eight hundred fifty thousand words of storytelling and that he spent from 2006 to 2014 writing. And he's written plenty of other Fanfictions besides. He knows what he's talking about. If he says it's a special private song for Anna and Elsa, I believe that.
Well sorry, but I've already spoiled it for you. It's a song to show the passage of time and the rift between the sisters. You know, a common song trope in a musical to quickly give information to the viewer. Yes yes, he's written loads of fanfiction; so what? I write fanfiction, so surely that means I know what I'm talking about?

Anna doesn't sing it to anyone else in FROZEN because she doesn't *connect* to anyone else in the movie as much as Elsa, but she connects to Sora at least a small amount akin to how she connects to Elsa.
How can you know this when you haven't even seen the movie? Also that's just generally not how musicals work. Characters don't sing unrelated songs they'd sung previously just because they feel a connection to a character. If Anna were to sing it again at all it'd be to Elsa as a reprise to reflect the change in their relationship. It's in the game for the player as much as Sora, because the games always do a somewhat watered down rehash of the movie story if they don't do something original. Sora hears it because Sora is the protagonist and needed to be caught up on the plot. They decided to start the story with Elsa fleeing Arendelle, so the only way to convey what happened in the past was through a flashback and woah, how lucky~! they have a song covering the major conflict in the beginning of the film so they threw that in. Considering how the majority of the world plays out we were lucky to have Sora there at all.

If you don't believe that KINGDOM HEARTS' periods are meaningful and you believe that they're just awkward and corny and not that deep - which is *not* interpretation; *what* their depth and meaning consists of is open to interpretation, *that* they're meaningful and deep *isn't,* and to say otherwise is to insult KINGDOM HEARTS very badly - then why are you playing it?
...What.
Did you miss the "we all know and love" part? The Disney bits can be corny and awkward but honestly that's part of the charm to me, I never said it was specifically a bad thing. Well okay, this particular moment was awkward bad imo lol. I'm just talking about this specific moment not having any deeper meaning, not KH as a whole. Also you do realise you can criticise aspects of media while still enjoying it yes? KH is possibly my favourite franchise of all, but there are parts of it I'm not overly a fan of or would have done differently myself. Doesn't make me love it any less, Disney awkwardness warts and all.

Role-Playing Games exist to tell a story. Why play one if not for the story?
Yep? Never said it wasn't?

*Once again,* Nomura would not include a song, no matter how popular it is, unless there was a valid storytelling reason behind it. He sells out at times, particularly with his illustrations, but not *that much.* He values the creative writing process.
*Once again,* you don't know Nomura, you don't know what sort of agreements he has with Disney. Everything needs to be run by Disney first. It's completely plausible that they have requirements to include their franchises in the games, and including songs from a movie insanely popular because of those songs is a perfectly reasonable thing to assume. Nomura doesn't have free reign when it comes to the Disney stuff, and honestly the Frozen world is one of the most glaring examples.

My god, this is such a weird hill to die on.
 

Lacan Valeth

Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2020
Messages
66
Awards
0
Pastel.Goblin:
I *don't* need to explain the differences. They're self-evident, and I have no reason to.

If your 'one possible reason' is that I'm supposedly a naive delusional subhuman lunatic for believing that there are other forms of love than romantic love and that physical attraction and other physical issues are wrong and unimportant, I've heard that one before, plenty of times through the years since I was an early teenager and first rejected physical attraction and other physical issues. And, unless a friend says those things about me, I could care less. I don't care what anyone but my friends think of me.

And it's not a matter of me not caring what other people think of me while not talking about my beliefs. I *don't* refrain from showing my beliefs to *anyone.* - Other than my friends, of course. - If you're one of my friends and you believe in physical attraction or other physical issues, so long as you don't take those beliefs too far, I'll accept that and I won't argue about it with you. But if you're not a friend, I made it a point to regularly tell off the people around me whenever they displayed the slightest amount of interest in physical attraction or other physical issues in my presence. It's one of the numerous reasons I was ostracized so much in high school and college. I don't have a job yet due to having partial hearing loss, but when I do get one, if I can tell off my fellow workers without disobeying the rules of workplace cordiality if they display the slightest amount of interest in physical attraction or other physical issues in my presence, I'll do so on a regular basis as I did in high school and college.

I *don't* care, *at all,* what anyone but my friends think of me. So even if you did tell me whatever your 'one possible reason' is, I wouldn't care. I wouldn't waste your time implying insults against me; they mean nothing whatsoever to me.

You haven't spoiled it for me. I trust Piccolo Sky's perspective on the merit and context of the song; I don't consider what you said spoiling anything that I don't want to know that much.

That *is* how musicals work. The songs are there for characterization, thematic, philosophical, and plot reasons, if not other reasons. Characters don't sing songs unless there's a *point to singing them.*

Arendelle is *vital* to Sora's growth and degeneration as a character, as well as to Anna's character growth. See my other points.

I'm aware that you can criticize portions of a story but still love it overall. But the Disney parts aren't awkward. All of the Disney characters and settings are integrated in the story; especially in KINGDOM HEARTS III's story, where the Disney worlds are far more important than in any other Game. Nomura has *specifically said in a number of interviews,* such as in an interview in a Video Game magazine - I can't remember if it was in Game Informer or another magazine - before KINGDOM HEARTS came out, or an interview in Game Informer about BIRTH BY SLEEP, that if he can't give a Disney world an important purpose in KINGDOM HEARTS' story for that Game, he doesn't use that world. Are you going to argue with *Nomura's own behind-the-scenes words?*

Good. We agree about why Role-Playing Games exist.

See above. Nomura has *specifically said in a number of interviews* that he doesn't include a Disney world unless he can give it an important purpose in the story. Even *if* Disney had a requirement, or more than one requirement, for including Arendelle, if Nomura hadn't been able to give the songs a place in the story, he wouldn't have included a FROZEN world in KINGDOM HEARTS III. Particularly since, as others have brought up, FROZEN is one of Nomura's favorite Disney movies.

I see your point about how Disney could give Nomura specific requirements for including a FROZEN world, but I doubt they did this, because they initially said that Nomura couldn't put Mickey in more than one scene in the first KINGDOM HEARTS, but afterwards Nomura convinced Disney to give him free reign with Mickey. Disney knows better than to give Nomura restrictions like including songs. Telling Nomura he couldn't turn one of their best characterized protagonists into an antagonist is one thing - that's a 'no.' Attempting to force Nomura to say 'yes' is a different matter. They can't. He'd have just not included a FROZEN world in KINGDOM HEARTS III if Disney had attempted to force him to compromise the story.

Oracle Spockanort:
Can you please give Astertide permission to Post his or her 'Memes' of me on Reddit if he or she wants to, or any 'Memes' that he or she does of me later if he or she wants to Post them there, as I asked you to in the other Thread?

Paul

"Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!"-Auron
FINAL FANTASY X
 
Last edited:

pastel.goblin

Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2020
Messages
76
Awards
0
I *don't* need to explain the differences. They're self-evident, and I have no reason to.
Right, so you can't explain.

If your 'one possible reason' is that I'm supposedly a naive delusional subhuman lunatic for believing that there are other forms of love than romantic love and that physical attraction and other physical issues are wrong and unimportant, I've heard that one before, plenty of times through the years since I was an early teenager and first rejected physical attraction and other physical issues. And, unless a friend says those things about me, I could care less. I don't care what anyone but my friends think of me.
That's some hardcore projecting right there, I wasn't implying that at all, but go off. Obviously platonic love and romantic love exist and are different, I just want to know what's different between the screenshots of Anna and Riku to imply one is platonic and the other romantic.

I trust Piccolo Sky's perspective on the merit and context of the song; I don't consider what you said spoiling anything that I don't want to know that much.
Or you could just, watch the movie? Just don't be too upset when it's literally just one song among many and never brought up again.

That *is* how musicals work. The songs are there for characterization, thematic, philosophical, and plot reasons, if not other reasons. Characters don't sing songs unless there's a *point to singing them.*
Cool, glad we agree. Now we know why Anna never sang it to anyone in the movie, but did to Sora. For the plot progression.

as well as to Anna's character growth
Sora's vital to Anna's character growth? LOL her story plays out the exact way it does in the Sora-less movie, he didn't affect squat.

But the Disney parts aren't awkward. All of the Disney characters and settings are integrated in the story; especially in KINGDOM HEARTS III's story, where the Disney worlds are far more important than in any other Game.
The awkwardness is down to opinion I guess. But also really? You didn't find Anna talking over her own singing at all jarring? Or Elsa singing Let it Go with random cuts to SDG going "HUH?!" As for KH3 having the most integrated worlds, that's been part of a fandom debate for a long time lol.

I see your point about how Disney could give Nomura specific requirements for including a FROZEN world, but I doubt they did this, because they initially said that Nomura couldn't put Mickey in more than one scene in the first KINGDOM HEARTS, but afterwards Nomura convinced Disney to give him free reign with Mickey. Disney knows better than to give Nomura restrictions like including songs. Telling Nomura he couldn't turn one of their best characterized protagonists into an antagonist is one thing - that's a 'no.' Attempting to force Nomura to say 'yes' is a different matter. They can't. He'd have just not included a FROZEN world in KINGDOM HEARTS III if Disney had attempted to force him to compromise the story.
Yeah, in the very first game. They had no idea it would gain the popularity that it did, but once they saw the potential in sales they gave him a bit more leeway. I don't doubt that Nomura wanted to put the music in, just not for the reason you seem to think. And the story was compromised, in Frozen at least. If you'd seen it you'd realise just how much of the movie plot happened off screen while SDG were running around a maze and climbing the same mountain a bunch of times. I mean god, Hans is a main character and the story's villain and he gets what, one minute screen time and no lines? Sora barely got involved in the plot at all, like it was mentioned earlier he doesn't even interact with the cast during the climax.

FROZEN is one of Nomura's favorite Disney movies.
Which makes it more likely he'd agree to what they wanted so he could include it. If you honestly think that he chose to put that song there to show a budding romance between Anna and Sora as opposed to it being exposition then just... idk what to say. Pretty jarring retcon though, I mean look at all the songs Sora and Ariel shared in the past, they even held hands during them. Poor Anna only sat next to Sora.
 

Oracle Spockanort

a female bisexual POC so think before you post
Staff member
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
33,668
Awards
54
Age
29
Location
California
Website
twitter.com
  • Put That Thing Back Where It Came From
  • 15th Anniversary
  • Just Short of the Mark
  • Advanced Chain of Memories
  • Beauty Within
  • No Name
I *don't* need to explain the differences. They're self-evident, and I have no reason to.
So essentially you do not have an answer because you haven't figure out what the difference is yet. You are able to write paragraphs about Anna's looks (which is all wrong) but can't seem to be bothered to explain what makes the difference between loving romantic eyes and loving eyes and why Riku's eyes are "loving" while Anna's are "romantic".



Can you please give Astertide permission to Post his or her 'Memes' of me on Reddit if he or she wants to, or any 'Memes' that he or she does of me later if he or she wants to Post them there, as I asked you to in the other Thread?
Dude, I got an important government job I work. I don't have time to give every grown adult on this site permission to do things or read long posts to find a comment I didn't see because you don't use the quote function which informs people when they are being spoken to.
 

Lacan Valeth

Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2020
Messages
66
Awards
0
Pastel.Goblin:
I can explain. I'm not going to spell out a self-evident common sense difference to the level of duh, which is what the difference between platonic love and romantic love is.

I also believe that you're implying that a strong friendship is the same thing as romantic love, and that boys can't be physically affectionate to one another without romantic love being involved - even though physical contact has *nothing whatsoever* to do with romantic love - . Both issues are stereotyping.

This is why I'm 'projecting.' I don't care for the belief that, when males display too much love for each other or physical affection, it's romance. It's not, not just because romantic love has nothing whatsoever to do with physical contact, but for other self-evident common sense reasons to the level of duh. So it irritates me when I believe that I've encountered this.

Projecting out of the way, what were you implying about me, then? That I'm attracted to my own gender because I don't care about physical attraction or other physical issues? I've heard that one, too. That one means nothing to me, too. I choose to ignore physical attraction of my own choice, so it wouldn't matter if I *was* physically attracted to my own gender; I'd ignore that, too, and wouldn't have any interest in physical attraction to my own gender or other physical issues in regards to my own gender, or care about them whatsoever. - Though I'm not physically attracted to my own gender, I'm physically attracted to girls and women, but I have no interest whatsoever in physical attraction or other physical issues with girls and women, nor do I care about them at all, because I choose not to be interest in them whatsoever or care about them at all. - Nor do I see being physically attracted to your own gender, et cetera, as insulting in the first place. To each his or her own choices and beliefs, so long as you don't hurt someone with them.

Or the latest one I've recently heard that I hadn't heard before until a little while ago, that I don't care about physical attraction and other physical issues whatsoever and I have no interest in them at all not because I choose to not care about them and have no interest in them, but because I'm forced to due to how I was born and I don't possess the ability to choose to not care about them or be interested in them whatsoever of my own free will, and if I hadn't supposedly been born a particular way I'd feel bad if I rejected physical attraction and other physical issues when I feel fine rejecting them and feel lousy if they're brought to my attention and I'm forced to confront them? That means nothing to me as well. I make my own decisions; how I was born has no link whatsoever to who I am and can't take away my ability to choose of my own free will the slightest amount.

Whatever you're implying, I don't care.

I will watch FROZEN sooner or later, and I *highly doubt* I'll end up agreeing with you when you do, based on the matters you've already said about Arendelle.

I agreed with no such thing in regards to plot progression. My point is that Anna sang it to Sora for *character progression.*

Sora enabled Anna to stop fearing that she couldn't love and protect and cherish and be there for Elsa. As I understand it, in the first FROZEN, Anna protected Elsa but she didn't overcome her fears of lacking the ability to do so. So no, her story doesn't play out in the exact same way.

I didn't find anything jarring. I'm familiar with those kinds of storytelling methods. I use them myself at times.

I don't need to have seen FROZEN to know that a lot of its plot didn't make it into KINGDOM HEARTS III. That Hans captured Elsa without it being explained how he did so and what Hans' motives and goals are makes that blaringly obvious. But KINGDOM HEARTS has done the same thing with plenty of other movies. At times it throws in references to the plots of movies that have happened before the arcs in the Games without explaining what they mean, which is *far worse* than what it does in Arendelle. FROZEN's story wasn't any more compromised than plenty of other Disney worlds' stories, and was less compromised than a decent number of others.

See my previous arguments for how much Sora interacts with the central cast. Anna enables Sora himself to understand important matters about Riku's personality that he hadn't understood previously. And see my previous arguments for why Sora didn't interact with the characters after defeating Hans; he knew better than to interrupt Anna and Elsa, and the ending is a cliffhanger... the FROZEN Arendelle arc of KINGDOM HEARTS III is set up for later.

The interviews didn't just refer to KINGDOM HEARTS. They were for later Games, as well. Nomura *does not* include a Disney world in a KINGDOM HEARTS Game unless it has an important role in the story. He does not make a single exception for this in any KINGDOM HEARTS Game. His own words in interviews prove this, and this *is* proof.

Sora and Ariel holding hands has nothing whatsoever to do with romantic love. Emotional connection has everything to do with it. See above.

Oracle Spockanort:
I know what the difference is. I've known it since I learned about romantic love in my childhood.

You're not going to provoke me into talking about it. You're flame-baiting and trolling. Stop it. That's not what Message Board Threads are for.

I'm sorry for not being clearer what I was asking about. I acknowledged that I was wrong to say my interpretations of Kairi's and Anna's facial expressions and body language, et cetera, were proof in the other Thread when Astertide reminded me that I don't know Kairi and Anna personally any more than Ansem the Wise and Yen Sid do. Then I asked him or her if he or she was willing to improve his or her pictures ridiculing and mocking my idiocy and Post the ones that he or she has already created, and new ones if he or she is willing to create them, on Reddit to further ridicule and mock my idiocy.

But another Poster believed that he or she needed your permission to ridicule or mock me on Reddit, so I asked you there if you can please give Astertide your permission to ridicule or mock me on Reddit if it's against the rules for him or her to do so without your permission.

That's what I'm referring to.

Paul

"We're friends, right?"-Zack Fair
CRISIS CORE: FINAL FANTASY VII
 

astertide

Active member
Joined
Sep 16, 2020
Messages
137
Awards
0
First, oop.

Second, no one was implying you were gay, like, at all.

Thirdly, nobody's trying to insult you.

Fourthly, "Whatever you're implying, I don't care," is preceded by 5 paragraphs of saying why you DO care.

Just... chill, dude. If I ever came across as purposely trying to insult you, I'm sorry, I didn't mean it that way.
I did lose my temper, and I'm sorry. Let's just have a friendly conversation and not get worked up. Yes, you can call me a hypocrite. I'm sorry. I'll reply to both threads in the new Kairi's Darkness thread.
 

pastel.goblin

Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2020
Messages
76
Awards
0
I also believe that you're implying that a strong friendship is the same thing as romantic love, and that boys can't be physically affectionate to one another without romantic love being involved - even though physical contact has *nothing whatsoever* to do with romantic love - . Both issues are stereotyping.

This is why I'm 'projecting.' I don't care for the belief that, when males display too much love for each other or physical affection, it's romance. It's not, not just because romantic love has nothing whatsoever to do with physical contact, but for other self-evident common sense reasons to the level of duh. So it irritates me when I believe that I've encountered this.
No, I actually agree with you there. Male friends should be able to be portrayed as being physically close without it being romantic in the same way female friendships are. However, what I was implying from your lack of an explanation between Anna and Riku is the obvious: Riku is male so can't be looking at Sora with "romantically" loving eyes. What other difference is there? I don't know because you won't say so I have to assume. I didn't want to fling accusations but idk what else the difference could be. At the end of the day when it comes to interpreting how Riku feels about Sora, both platonic and romantic are valid. If you don't think Anna and Riku have the same feelings for Sora because you don't like the idea of Soriku just say it, don't act like there's some tell-tale difference in the way they look at him unless you're going to explain it for us apparent dummies.

Projecting out of the way, what were you implying about me, then? That I'm attracted to my own gender because I don't care about physical attraction or other physical issues? I've heard that one, too. That one means nothing to me, too. I choose to ignore physical attraction of my own choice, so it wouldn't matter if I *was* physically attracted to my own gender; I'd ignore that, too, and wouldn't have any interest in physical attraction to my own gender or other physical issues in regards to my own gender, or care about them whatsoever. - Though I'm not physically attracted to my own gender, I'm physically attracted to girls and women, but I have no interest whatsoever in physical attraction or other physical issues with girls and women, nor do I care about them at all, because I choose not to be interest in them whatsoever or care about them at all. - Nor do I see being physically attracted to your own gender, et cetera, as insulting in the first place. To each his or her own choices and beliefs, so long as you don't hurt someone with them.

Or the latest one I've recently heard that I hadn't heard before until a little while ago, that I don't care about physical attraction and other physical issues whatsoever and I have no interest in them at all not because I choose to not care about them and have no interest in them, but because I'm forced to due to how I was born and I don't possess the ability to choose to not care about them or be interested in them whatsoever of my own free will, and if I hadn't supposedly been born a particular way I'd feel bad if I rejected physical attraction and other physical issues when I feel fine rejecting them and feel lousy if they're brought to my attention and I'm forced to confront them? That means nothing to me as well. I make my own decisions; how I was born has no link whatsoever to who I am and can't take away my ability to choose of my own free will the slightest amount.
...wow. I never implied you were gay? Look, please don't take this the wrong way, I mean it as kindly as possible: you obviously have some personal issues that I think you need to work through; somewhere other than on a forum for a video game. I know when speaking through text it can be harder to decipher meanings than speaking face to face, but I wasn't even thinking let alone implying anything of the sort. I don't know you, I have nothing against you personally. Your orientation and preferences mean nothing to me and have no bearing on this convo at all. I'm sorry it came across that way to you.

I will watch FROZEN sooner or later, and I *highly doubt* I'll end up agreeing with you when you do, based on the matters you've already said about Arendelle.
Okay cool.

I agreed with no such thing in regards to plot progression. My point is that Anna sang it to Sora for *character progression.*
Sadly sarcasm doesn't come through text.

I don't need to have seen FROZEN to know that a lot of its plot didn't make it into KINGDOM HEARTS III. That Hans captured Elsa without it being explained how he did so and what Hans' motives and goals are makes that blaringly obvious. But KINGDOM HEARTS has done the same thing with plenty of other movies. At times it throws in references to the plots of movies that have happened before the arcs in the Games without explaining what they mean, which is *far worse* than what it does in Arendelle. FROZEN's story wasn't any more compromised than plenty of other Disney worlds' stories, and was less compromised than a decent number of others.
Ehhh agree to disagree. You're not wrong that it happens with other worlds, but Arendelle was the most affected imo.

And see my previous arguments for why Sora didn't interact with the characters after defeating Hans; he knew better than to interrupt Anna and Elsa, and the ending is a cliffhanger... the FROZEN Arendelle arc of KINGDOM HEARTS III is set up for later.
I don't doubt Frozen 2 will be in a future game, but unless they decide to drastically change it or give Kristoff the Hans treatment, Soranna sunk in KH3 sorry.

Sora and Ariel holding hands has nothing whatsoever to do with romantic love. Emotional connection has everything to do with it. See above.
I mean I was mostly joking, but Ariel and Sora have a much more substantial connection over the series than Anna and Sora. Will that change in future? Who knows, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
 

Face My Fears

She's not an "it"!
Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Messages
4,200
Awards
0
Pastel.Goblin:
I'm not talking about the difference because I don't have the need to. So far as I can tell, there's no need to, because I don't need to counter any argument that Riku looks at Sora with loving romantic eyes. You have no proof that he does, anywhere.

Piccolo Sky wouldn't spoil what 'Do You Wanna' Build A Snowman?' is, specifically, but he made it clear it *is* a sacrosanct personal hymn to Anna and Elsa's love for each other. Once more, he's written a very in-depth FINAL FANTASY Fanfiction for much or all of the series that's around three million eight hundred fifty thousand words of storytelling and that he spent from 2006 to 2014 writing. And he's written plenty of other Fanfictions besides. He knows what he's talking about. If he says it's a special private song for Anna and Elsa, I believe that.

The following is an interpretation, not fact. - I'm going to stop saying this. I've said it enough by now. I'll bring it up again if it sounds like, or I do, state interpretation as fact once more. -

Anna doesn't sing it to anyone else in FROZEN because she doesn't *connect* to anyone else in the movie as much as Elsa, but she connects to Sora at least a small amount akin to how she connects to Elsa.

If you don't believe that KINGDOM HEARTS' periods are meaningful and you believe that they're just awkward and corny and not that deep - which is *not* interpretation; *what* their depth and meaning consists of is open to interpretation, *that* they're meaningful and deep *isn't,* and to say otherwise is to insult KINGDOM HEARTS very badly - then why are you playing it?

Role-Playing Games exist to tell a story. Why play one if not for the story?

*Once again,* Nomura would not include a song, no matter how popular it is, unless there was a valid storytelling reason behind it. He sells out at times, particularly with his illustrations, but not *that much.* He values the creative writing process.

Astertide:
You said I wasted around five hours of your life with my idiocy, so I'll attempt to give them back by spending a lot of time pleading for those 'Meme' improvements. ~_^ :) :p

Where are they? ~_^ :) :p *Bursts into fountains of streams of arcing tears from both eyes like an anime child crying.* ~_^ :) :p

This reminds me of one of my favorite 'typographical errors of d00m.' ~_^ :) :p

I was discussing the DS version of CHRONO TRIGGER on the GameFAQs CHRONO TRIGGER Message Board in late 2008 shortly before, or around the time it came out - I don't remember which - and I misspelled 'CHRONO TRIGGER' as 'CHRONO TIGGER.'

Someone pointed that out and I *had a blast* being *amused as heck* about that.

Hint hint for a 'Meme' ridiculing my idiocy. ~_^ :) :p

I may also give Sora a Chrono Tigger Keychain in THE GIRL WHO STOLE THE STAR if there's a One-Hundred Acre Wood arc.

While I wait to see if or how you respond to this, here's a poem titled, 'The Most Wonderful Thing About Chrono Tiggers.'

~*~*~*~

THE MOST WONDERFUL THING ABOUT CHRONO TIGGERS

The most wonderful thing about Lavos
Is that Lavos does much spiny shines
Its top is made of needles
And its bottom is made of spines
Its fiery, fiery, fiery, fun fun fun fun fun
And the most wonderful thing about Lavos
Is that there are more than one!

Hoo hoo hoo hoo!​

~*~*~*~

Lousy and extremely bland, I know, but I can't think of anything better at present, and I might not be able to for a while.

Paul

"But no history book could have prepared me for what ensued... Unimaginable is the power of Lavos! Before him, all are as leaves cast to the bitter winds that howl about Death's black wings."-Janus/Magus
CHRONO TRIGGER [DS Version]
Can you please post screenshots that prove without a doubt the difference between "loving eyes" and "romantically loving eyes"?

There's no evidence in the Frozen film that "Do You Want To Build A Snowman" is some sacrosanct hymn that Anna only sings for her and Elsa. We are shown that Anna sings it to Elsa, but that doesn't make it some private, special song between them. The song DOES have meaning between them, but it's never portrayed as this exclusive thing between them.

Anna sings it in KH3 to accomplish 3 things: 1) dump backstory on Anna/Elsa on us, 2) deliver exposition on what drove Elsa away from the palace, and 3) include a mega popular Disney song. It's evident that in Arendelle, people burst out into song when they are overwhelmed with emotion. Telling Sora about her past with Elsa and the current predicament probably overwhelmed Anna with emotion and thus she sang. And you're the private investigator zooming in on screenshots and interpreting facial expressions, but you didn't even realize Anna wasn't singing it TO Sora, she was just singing to herself.
 

Lacan Valeth

Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2020
Messages
66
Awards
0
Astertide:
Don't worry about losing your temper. I asked for it.

I don't care if anyone said I was attracted to my own gender, et cetera. Those 'five paragraphs' were because I was irritated with a perceived insult - that it turns out that I was wrong about - against literary art, so I made a number of assumptions and responded as I've responded to people throughout the years who malign friendship bonds. I *don't* care, unless the person is a friend. I get upset when society and my family insults my friends or literary art. I don't care if anyone but my friends think badly of me.

I was serious about you improving your 'Memes.' Go to town ridiculing and mocking me. I'll enjoy it if you do so. If I say or do something idiotic, I *want* to be ridiculed and mocked, so I can look back on my mistakes better and learn from them, and so I can laugh over my idiocy rather than feeling guilty about it.

Pastel.Goblin:
I'm very sorry.

You aren't a typical person who distorts and warps friendship love. Good.

I'm very sorry for making that assumption. I'm so used to running into those kinds of people after all these years since Fanfiction.Net was created that I jump to conclusions when I shouldn't - though most of the time, I turn out to have been correct.

I don't care for Sora and Riku not because Riku is male, but because he's Sora's *best friend,* and the Sora and Riku pairing is based on nothing but a large amount of idiot 'fans'' inability to accept that strong friendships exist. I feel the same way about strong male and female friendships. Those are my 'personal issues.' I *loathe* it when people malign literary art. There are people I know and have met who believe in a Sora and Riku romance for other, valid reasons, but not many people.

If you're not assuming Riku is in love with Sora because you don't believe that strong friendships exist, why don't you understand what I mean about the difference being self-evident? If you elaborate, I'll clarify myself.

And, while I'm not irritated with you any longer, I'll clarify a little more about the physical attraction and other physical issues subject. I have no preferences about physical attraction and other physical issues in any way, nor do I have a direction in any way. I don't care about, and I'm not interested in, physical attraction and other physical issues whatsoever because I'm a person who chose to not care about them at all, not because of issues such as 'direction' or 'preference.' Those terms imply that I didn't choose to be uninterested in physical attraction and other physical issues, and that I do still care about them in a sense. It's a matter of personal choice and personal belief. Those issues aren't part of who I am and they don't define me at all, and I have no preferences one way or another in regards to them, other than to reject them wholly.

You were being sarcastic. Okay.

What about Nomura specifically saying in interviews about a number of KINGDOM HEARTS Games that he doesn't include a Disney world if he can't give it an important role in the story?

Can you please not refer to Sora and Anna - and once more, I'm not saying Sora returns Anna's feelings, so a compound name makes even *less* sense with them than with people who do return each other's feelings - with compound names that trivialize romantic love?

I'm not arguing that FROZEN 2 will be in a future Game. I'm arguing that Anna and Elsa are going to be major characters in the future KINGDOM HEARTS series, inside and outside of a FROZEN 2 arc, in an Olympus Coliseum way or by Anna and Elsa traveling off-world since they're - currently - Princesses of Heart.

Why do you feel that Ariel and Sora have a stronger connection?

Face My Fears:
That depends on why you're asking. See my previous concerns. What's your stance on strong friendship bonds?

That's a more convincing counterargument about 'Do You Wanna' Build A Snowman?' not being representative of Anna's bond with Elsa. I'll partially - though not fully - drop that as evidence Anna has a strong bond with Sora.

Anna was singing it to both Sora and herself. She looks at Sora once when singing it, so she's singing it to him, and she rocks back and forth with her eyes opening and closing in ways that show that someone is in an incredible amount of anguish. Anna wanted Sora to see her pain and to take it away.

Which he does. If 'Do You Wanna' Build A Snowman?' has no characterization purpose, why did Sora respond to it by comforting Anna with, "I'm sure your sister knows how much you love her. If anyone can help her, it's you." Anna doesn't tell Sora directly that she's afraid that she can't love and protect Elsa; she does so indirectly with the words, "They say, 'have courage' and I'm trying to." And if 'Do You Wanna' Build A Snowman?' has no characterization purpose, why is Anna so disappointed that Kristoff, and not Sora, the person who reassured her that she's capable of loving and protecting Elsa effectively after she sang "They say, 'have courage' and I'm trying to" has come to her on the frigid ice when Hans is threatening Elsa's life, and why does she repeatedly look past Kristoff to see if Sora is coming to her side?

See my arguments above about how Nomura never includes a Disney world in a KINGDOM HEARTS Game unless there's an important story purpose for it.

Paul

"See? I told you! A walking, talking snowman!"-Sora
KINGDOM HEARTS III
 
Last edited:

Face My Fears

She's not an "it"!
Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Messages
4,200
Awards
0
Astertide:
Don't worry about losing your temper. I asked for it.

I don't care if anyone said I was attracted to my own gender, et cetera. Those 'five paragraphs' were because I was irritated with a perceived insult - that it turns out that I was wrong about - against literary art, so I made a number of assumptions and responded as I've responded to people throughout the years who malign friendship bonds. I *don't* care, unless the person is a friend. I get upset when society and my family insults my friends or literary art. I don't care if anyone but my friends think badly of me.

I was serious about you improving your 'Memes.' Go to town ridiculing and mocking me. I'll enjoy it if you do so. If I say or do something idiotic, I *want* to be ridiculed and mocked, so I can look back on my mistakes better and learn from them, and so I can laugh over my idiocy rather than feeling guilty about it.

Pastel.Goblin:
I'm very sorry.

You aren't a typical person who distorts and warps friendship love. Good.

I'm very sorry for making that assumption. I'm so used to running into those kinds of people after all these years since Fanfiction.Net was created that I jump to conclusions when I shouldn't - though most of the time, I turn out to have been correct.

I don't care for Sora and Riku not because Riku is male, but because he's Sora's *best friend,* and the Sora and Riku pairing is based on nothing but a large amount of idiot 'fans'' inability to accept that strong friendships exist. I feel the same way about strong male and female friendships. Those are my 'personal issues.' I *loathe* it when people malign literary art. There are people I know and have met who believe in a Sora and Riku romance for other, valid reasons, but not many people.

If you're not assuming Riku is in love with Sora because you don't believe that strong friendships exist, why don't you understand what I mean about the difference being self-evident? If you elaborate, I'll clarify myself.

And, while I'm not irritated with you any longer, I'll clarify a little more about the physical attraction and other physical issues subject. I have no preferences about physical attraction and other physical issues in any way, nor do I have a direction in any way. I don't care about, and I'm not interested in, physical attraction and other physical issues whatsoever because I'm a person who chose to not care about them at all, not because of issues such as 'direction' or 'preference.' Those terms imply that I didn't choose to be uninterested in physical attraction and other physical issues, and that I do still care about them in a sense. It's a matter of personal choice and personal belief. Those issues aren't part of who I am and they don't define me at all, and I have no preferences one way or another in regards to them, other than to reject them wholly.

You were being sarcastic. Okay.

What about Nomura specifically saying in interviews about a number of KINGDOM HEARTS Games that he doesn't include a Disney world if he can't give it an important role in the story?

Can you please not refer to Sora and Anna - and once more, I'm not saying Sora returns Anna's feelings, so a compound name makes even *less* sense with them than with people who do return each other's feelings - with compound names that trivialize romantic love?

I'm not arguing that FROZEN 2 will be in a future Game. I'm arguing that Anna and Elsa are going to be major characters in the future KINGDOM HEARTS series, inside and outside of a FROZEN 2 arc, in an Olympus Coliseum way or by Anna and Elsa traveling off-world since they're - currently - Princesses of Heart.

Why do you feel that Ariel and Sora have a stronger connection?

Face My Fears:
That depends on why you're asking. See my previous concerns. What's your stance on strong friendship bonds?

That's a more convincing counterargument about 'Do You Wanna' Build A Snowman?' not being representative of Anna's bond with Elsa. I'll partially - though not fully - drop that as evidence Anna has a strong bond with Sora.

Anna was singing it to both Sora and herself. She looks at Sora once when singing it, so she's singing it to him, and she rocks back and forth with her eyes opening and closing in ways that show that someone is in an incredible amount of anguish. Anna wanted Sora to see her pain and to take it away.

Which he does. If 'Do You Wanna' Build A Snowman?' has no characterization purpose, why did Sora respond to it by comforting Anna with, "I'm sure your sister knows how much you love her. If anyone can help her, it's you." Anna doesn't tell Sora directly that she's afraid that she can't love and protect Elsa; she does so indirectly with the words, "They say, 'have courage' and I'm trying to." And if 'Do You Wanna' Build A Snowman?' has no characterization purpose, why is Anna so disappointed that Kristoff, and not Sora, the person who reassured her that she's capable of loving and protecting Elsa effectively after she sang "They say, 'have courage' and I'm trying to" has come to her on the frigid ice when Hans is threatening Elsa's life, and why does she repeatedly look past Kristoff to see if Sora is coming to her side?

See my arguments above about how Nomura never includes a Disney world in a KINGDOM HEARTS Game unless there's an important story purpose for it.

Paul

"See? I told you! A walking, talking snowman!"-Sora
KINGDOM HEARTS III
Why does it depend on why I'm asking for the screenshots of the difference between "loving eyes" and "romantically loving eyes"? You brought up that there was a difference, so I want to see via screenshots what that difference is. My stance on strong friendship bonds is irrelevant. I am asking you for screenshots of the difference between "loving eyes" and "romantically loving eyes". Please educate me via screenshots.

Again, Mr. Private Investigator with thousands of deeply analyzed screenshots, how did you miss the fact that Anna never once looks at Sora while singing "Do You Want To Build A Snowman" and therefore was NOT singing it to him? Sora could sense Anna's pain, I'm guessing not only from the song she just sang, but you know explaining that Elsa was locked away during her childhood leaving Anna alone, then when things were getting better her sister ran away because her magic froze the entire kingdom? Hmm... singing a few lines from "Do You Want To Build A Snowman" or Anna explaining her painful life story to Sora... I wonder which one really let him understand her pain?

I refuse to answer or acknowledge any more of your questions or comments about characters' "looks" or which way they're looking or characters "looking past" another or anything like that until you provide screenshots that definitively explain the difference between "loving eyes" and "romantically loving eyes".

Also, can you please let me know the important main story purposes of the following Disney worlds: Halloween Town (KH2), The Pride Lands, Agrabah (KH2), Atlantica (KH2), Land of Dragons, Olympus Coliseum (KH1 and 2), and all the Disney worlds (KHCoM and KHreCODED). Since you claim Nomura never includes a Disney world unless there is important story purpose, I really am waiting in anticipation to hear this, especially what important main story information I missed in The Pride Lands in KH2.
 

disney233

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2015
Messages
1,009
Awards
0
Age
22
Also, can you please let me know the important main story purposes of the following Disney worlds: Halloween Town (KH2), The Pride Lands, Agrabah (KH2), Atlantica (KH2), Land of Dragons, Olympus Coliseum (KH1 and 2), and all the Disney worlds (KHCoM and KHreCODED). Since you claim Nomura never includes a Disney world unless there is important story purpose, I really am waiting in anticipation to hear this, especially what important main story information I missed in The Pride Lands in KH2.
Ayo I wanna hear this too. I wanna know the important story purpose of TAV going to Disneyland-I mean Disney Town. Y'KNOW WHAT, Country of Musketeers, too, he's so smart.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top