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The Foretellers And the Seven Deadly Sins They Represent



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Lacan Valeth

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Does anyone know Latin? What do 'Luxu' and 'Luxord' mean? 'Light of Space' and 'Light of Time?' 'Light of Chaos' and 'Light of Order?' 'Light of Discord' and 'Light of Harmony?' 'Light of Loyalty' and 'Light of Treachery?' Or something else?

Luxord might be Ven's Nobody, or Yozora's/Vanitas'/the Master's.

Paul

"You were born for these kinds of games."-Luxord
"Play you again, when we're just guys."-Sora
"I should like that very much, Sora."-Luxord
KINGDOM HEARTS III
 
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Tartarus

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All I know is luxuria is the word for lust. I don't know if that would have any connection to Luxu or not. I think in general luxu means something along the lines of extravagance, luxuriousness, excess, etc. Someone very worldly?
 

Oracle Spockanort

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All I know is luxuria is the word for lust. I don't know if that would have any connection to Luxu or not. I think in general luxu means something along the lines of extravagance, luxuriousness, excess, etc. Someone very worldly?
Luxuria is the source of Luxu's name as the others all have names based on the 7 sins.
 

Lacan Valeth

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Tartarus:
Thank you.

'Extravagance' and 'excess' firsts Luxu/Braig/Xigbar *very* well.

I don't care to say the first word that you brought up or it's meaning - I'm a firm believer that appearances don't matter, just personality - but I will say that the word sounds similar to 'Lauriam/Marluxia.' So those names could be further Latin references.

Oracle Spockanort:
Luxu fits 'extravagance' and 'excess.' Lauriam/Marluxia fits the other term.

If you're saying all the Foretellers have names based on the seven deadly sins, I can connect everyone but Ava with them. 'Ira' is 'Wrath,' 'Invi' is 'Pride,' 'Aced' is 'Envy,' and 'Gula' is 'Gluttony' - correct me if I'm wrong. But 'Ava' is 'Eve/Eve Hawwa/Serpent Mother/Earth Mother/Holy Mother,' and *she,* unlike the other Foretellers, didn't resign herself to her role due to the love she shares with Ephemer.

So how is Ava representative of the seven deadly sins?

Or are you saying that the members of the first Organization Thirteen/the Real Organization Thirteen have names based on the seven deadly sins?

Paul

"Ah, ever the rogue pawn. Knocked from the board early in the game. Utterly useless and forgotten."-Xemnas
KINGDOM HEARTS III

Oracle Spockanort:
Thank you for pointing out the seven deadly sins issue. :) I hadn't been aware of that until you brought it up - I'm guessing the sins that they represent now based on their names; I don't know much Latin.

Now I'm even *more* convinced that Nomura is attempting to turn Elsa and Anna into female versions of Edward Elric and Alphonse Elric, and Sora, in regards to his relationship with Anna and Elsa, into a male version of Winry Rockbell, from the three FULLMETAL ALCHEMIST anime/Manga stories.

Paul

"This is how the d-mned are born... This is a Homunculus!"-Wrath
FULLMETAL ALCHEMIST: Episode 31:
SIN
 
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Lacan Valeth

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Antifa Lockhart:
I'm sorry for being unclear.

Thank you for telling me the full Latin terms. :)

I concede the argument about what Luxu's name means.

Though I still believe Lauriam/Marluxia also fits the term.

What's 'Vanitas' Latin for? 'Vanity' and 'Pride' or 'Vanish?' Or two or all three?

Because I believe that the Master is Yozora and Vanitas.

I understood that the Foretellers' names are based on the Latin words for the seven deadly sins. I don't know much Latin, so I don't know which is which.

'Ava' is 'Avarice' and 'Greed?' Seriously? What the *heck?*

She's not selfish or greedy at all, and she doesn't fall to darkness like the other Foretellers do thanks to Ephemer. Then again, I suppose she could have *become* selfish and greedy if she had.

That Nomura used 'Ava' when he could have used a name such as 'Avari' argues that 'Ava' still additionally means 'Eve/Eve Hawwa/Holy Mother/Serpent Mother/Earth Mother,' though.

And Ava *is* the archetype for the Princesses of Heart, the Holy Mothers and Pistis Sophias and Aeons and Sefiroticum of the new realm of light that was subcreated after the age of fairy tales.

'Ira' = 'Ire' or 'Anger' or 'Wrath.'
'Gula' = 'Gluttony.'
'Acedia' = 'Acid' or 'Bitterness' or 'Envy.'
'Invidia' = 'Invalidity' or 'Insincerity' or 'Sloth.'

Am I correct this time?

Paul

"Changing sides again?"-Xemnas
KINGDOM HEARTS III
 

Tartarus

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Luxuria is the source of Luxu's name as the others all have names based on the 7 sins.
You're right. I watched the foretellers film back when the 2.8 ReMIX came out, but I've kind of forgot about most of those characters since then. I imagine they'll get more focus in the next KH games, maybe? Or are they only going to be relevant to the mobile games / past in the KH universe? (I only wonder that last part since it seems like Yozora would get main focus going forward.)
 

Oracle Spockanort

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You're right. I watched the foretellers film back when the 2.8 ReMIX came out, but I've kind of forgot about most of those characters since then. I imagine they'll get more focus in the next KH games, maybe? Or are they only going to be relevant to the mobile games / past in the KH universe? (I only wonder that last part since it seems like Yozora would get main focus going forward.)
They were present in the epilogue for KH3. I don’t think you got to see it in the non-patched version of the game. They will be the new Darknesses of the new saga, minus Ava who is missing.
 

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Antifa Lockhart:
I'm sorry for being unclear.

Thank you for telling me the full Latin terms. :)

I concede the argument about what Luxu's name means.

Though I still believe Lauriam/Marluxia also fits the term.

What's 'Vanitas' Latin for? 'Vanity' and 'Pride' or 'Vanish?' Or two or all three?

Because I believe that the Master is Yozora and Vanitas.

I understood that the Foretellers' names are based on the Latin words for the seven deadly sins. I don't know much Latin, so I don't know which is which.

'Ava' is 'Avarice' and 'Greed?' Seriously? What the *heck?*

She's not selfish or greedy at all, and she doesn't fall to darkness like the other Foretellers do thanks to Ephemer. Then again, I suppose she could have *become* selfish and greedy if she had.

That Nomura used 'Ava' when he could have used a name such as 'Avari' argues that 'Ava' still additionally means 'Eve/Eve Hawwa/Holy Mother/Serpent Mother/Earth Mother,' though.

And Ava *is* the archetype for the Princesses of Heart, the Holy Mothers and Pistis Sophias and Aeons and Sefiroticum of the new realm of light that was subcreated after the age of fairy tales.

'Ira' = 'Ire' or 'Anger' or 'Wrath.'
'Gula' = 'Gluttony.'
'Acedia' = 'Acid' or 'Bitterness' or 'Envy.'
'Invidia' = 'Invalidity' or 'Insincerity' or 'Sloth.'

Am I correct this time?

Paul

"Changing sides again?"-Xemnas
KINGDOM HEARTS III
Whoa, whoa, slow down. Please explain your terminology and theory better, because right now its hard to follow. I guess you want to connect the X storyline to gnosticism and ancient judaism?

Ira is wrath, Gula is gluttony, Aced is sloth, Invi is envy, Ava is greed, Luxu is lust, and following the pattern, MoM's name might be Super, or Xsuper (superbia, menaing pride). The names are not that easy to interpret, but probably connect to their roles. Ava needs to be greedy, as in hoarding the best weilders for herself, Aced needs to be lazy, since he only needs to step up once Ira is bad at his job, etc.
 

Lacan Valeth

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Oracle Spockanort:
Eraqus said there are *seven* black pieces. That's another reason I believe the Master is both Yozora and Vanitas. Ava isn't a black piece, but if the Master is both Yozora and Vanitas, that accounts for all seven.

Kokoko253:
I'm connecting the whole KINGDOM HEARTS series, not just the CHI portions, to Judeo-Christian Kabbalah religious mysticism, Christian Gnostic religious mysticism, the three FULLMETAL ALCHEMIST anime/Mangas that originated from Square ENiX's Shonen Gangan Monthly Manga publication, and other Square ENiX serieses like the Ivalice Alliance, and others in another Thread that I've Posted here.

Is there anything else you're having problems following? If so, I'll elaborate further.

I'm sorry for being unclear.

Thank you very much for the correct translations for the Foretellers.

Does anyone know what 'Luxord' is Latin for, if anything?

What is 'Vanitas' Latin for? 'Vanity' or 'Vanish' or both?

What does 'Yozora' mean in Japanese? 'Space' or 'Star,' opposed to Sora who is 'Sky?'

Ava isn't hoarding the best wielders for herself. Yozora/Vanitas/'Surex' - I'm taking that name from 'Superbia' as it's similar to 'Sora' and 'Roxas' and 'Rex' or 'King.' Thanks *a lot* for the 'Superbia.' :) -/the Master attempted to corrupt her, but her love for Ephemer kept her from falling into the darkness and Ava *didn't* resign herself to her supposed destined role. Recall that she's about to lose faith in everything near the end, then she remembers Ephemer, and in her last speech to the Dandelions - Yozora's/Vanitas'/Surex'/the Master's 'Weeds' - she's vocally restraining herself from sounding too fervent so she doesn't end up unintentionally convincing Ephemer to do something stupid and cause himself to become hurt, badly hurt, lose his heart, or be murdered, as well as perhaps to avoid what she sees as manipulating Ephemer.

Paul

"Eternal time... The infinite cycle of rebirth... Amidst that flow, human existence is meaningless."-White Testament
XENOSAGA: Episode 3:
ALSO SPRACH ZARATHUSTRA

Kokoko253:
If you're unsure what I mean by the Ed and Al and Winry reference to Elsa and Anna and Sora, see these two Fanfictions of mine at Fanfiction.Net. I've been going in-depth into this there.:

~*~*~*~

"Kingdom Hearts: Shattering Egg of Dreams
After protecting Elsa from the cold trapping her and Arendelle in ice, Anna has one last talk with Sora, the boy who took her seriously and believed she could love Elsa when no one else, not Elsa herself, not Kristoff, no one else did. And, even though she has just thrown wide the corridor back to her sister's light, a door is once again shut in Anna's face. One-sided Anna/Sora.
Kingdom Hearts - Rated: T - English - Friendship/Romance - Chapters: 1 - Words: 12,750 - Updated: 9/23/2020 - Published: 9/23/2020 - Sora, Anna - Complete"

"Kingdom Hearts: The Girl Who Stole the Star
Sequel to KH: SEOD. Sora is restored from The Final World by Kairi to discover that much has changed since he vanished. Sora's death has devastated Kairi and Riku, Anna and Elsa are faced with a nightmare destiny, and the mysterious Master of the Foretellers, adumbrated by shade, is on the verge of completing his millennia-long plan. The brightest light casts the darkest shadow.
"Kingdom Hearts - Rated: T - English - Friendship/Adventure - Chapters: 4 - Words: 34,343 - Updated: 10/8/2020 - Published: 9/24/2020 - [Sora, Kairi] Riku, Anna"

~*~*~*~

Paul

"This is your story. It all begins here."-Auron
FINAL FANTASY X

*Ugh. I am an utter idiot.*

I finally realized why Ted Woosley translated 'Sarah' as 'Schala' in the Super Nintendo version of CHRONO TRIGGER.

'Schala, the Princess of the ancient floating Magical Kingdom of Zeal' = 'Scala ad Caelum, the Stairway to the Sky' = 'The Sefirotic Tree of Life/the Sephirothic Tree of Life/Jacob's Ladder/the Orbs of Ascension to God' = 'the manifestation of God that humans can comprehend/Adam Kadmon/the primeval human/the original primordial light before the breaking of the divine vessels.'

*Headdesk.*

*Obvious much?*

I'm an English Major and a Writing Minor? I think *not.* ~_^ :p

Paul

"Gone is the magical Kingdom of Zeal, and all the dreams and ambitions of its people."-Magus
CHRONO TRIGGER [Super Nintendo Entertainment System Version]
 

Kokoko253

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Oracle Spockanort:
Eraqus said there are *seven* black pieces. That's another reason I believe the Master is both Yozora and Vanitas. Ava isn't a black piece, but if the Master is both Yozora and Vanitas, that accounts for all seven.

Kokoko253:
I'm connecting the whole KINGDOM HEARTS series, not just the CHI portions, to Judeo-Christian Kabbalah religious mysticism, Christian Gnostic religious mysticism, the three FULLMETAL ALCHEMIST anime/Mangas that originated from Square ENiX's Shonen Gangan Monthly Manga publication, and other Square ENiX serieses like the Ivalice Alliance, and others in another Thread that I've Posted here.

Is there anything else you're having problems following? If so, I'll elaborate further.

I'm sorry for being unclear.

Thank you very much for the correct translations for the Foretellers.

Does anyone know what 'Luxord' is Latin for, if anything?

What is 'Vanitas' Latin for? 'Vanity' or 'Vanish' or both?

What does 'Yozora' mean in Japanese? 'Space' or 'Star,' opposed to Sora who is 'Sky?'

Ava isn't hoarding the best wielders for herself. Yozora/Vanitas/'Surex' - I'm taking that name from 'Superbia' as it's similar to 'Sora' and 'Roxas' and 'Rex' or 'King.' Thanks *a lot* for the 'Superbia.' :) -/the Master attempted to corrupt her, but her love for Ephemer kept her from falling into the darkness and Ava *didn't* resign herself to her supposed destined role. Recall that she's about to lose faith in everything near the end, then she remembers Ephemer, and in her last speech to the Dandelions - Yozora's/Vanitas'/Surex'/the Master's 'Weeds' - she's vocally restraining herself from sounding too fervent so she doesn't end up unintentionally convincing Ephemer to do something stupid and cause himself to become hurt, badly hurt, lose his heart, or be murdered, as well as perhaps to avoid what she sees as manipulating Ephemer.

Paul

"Eternal time... The infinite cycle of rebirth... Amidst that flow, human existence is meaningless."-White Testament
XENOSAGA: Episode 3:
ALSO SPRACH ZARATHUSTRA
Well, there are some nice connections to christian mythology in the series, take for example the kingdom keys, they are pretty much the papal "keys of the kingdom of heaven". And Square likes to play around with Kabbalah, as seen in Xenogears. What I don't yet fully comprehend is the connection with Fullmetal Alchemist. Yes, Square is the publisher, but they had nothing to do with it other than publishing, why do you think there is a connection?

As far as I know, Luxord is not a latin word. I always assumed its a reference to Luxor (a famous casino, named after a city in Egypt), given his penchant for gambling. Vanitas is vanity. Yozora means "night sky'.

Well, creating the Dandelions IS Ava's job, and according to Luxu at the end of KH3, she was the only one who finished her job, that's why she is missing.
Why do you think she loves Ephemer?
 

Lacan Valeth

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Kokoko253:
I'd argue that, if I remember this correctly - I need to find my DICTIONARY OF ANGELS that my Creative Writing teacher gave me in high school - the Kingdom Keys are the 'keys to the twelve heavenly doors possessed by the Marienkind = Kairi' in the German children's story of the Marienkind. Though they could also be the Papal 'keys to the Kingdom of Heaven,' yes. But they fit the German children's story of the Marienkind a *lot* more, due to Kairi, and perhaps Namine and Xion. - To say nothing of Sora's and Riku's connections to the German poem 'Tief im Schwarzvald.' -

It's interesting that you should bring up XENOGEARS, since, in RE MIND:
*Warning for XENOGEARS Spoilers*
Kairi's and Sora's one-winged angel One Heart dual tech is a specific reference to Nisan's concepts of the one-winged angels. Kairi and Sora even briefly take on the precise poses of the female and male one-winged angel statues in the Nisan Cathedral when they return to The Final World before they touch down on the surface. I haven't yet been able to tell if Kairi and Sora take on the poses of the female and male one-winged angels in the One Heart one-winged angel dual technique itself, but I intend to find out sooner or later, perhaps even today.
*End Spoilers*

Though Tetsuya Takahashi, Soraya Saga, and Masato Kato aren't the sole writers who like to play around with Kabbalah - and Gnosticism; there's Gnosticism in XENOGEARS as well as themes of Carl Gustav Jung's and Jacques Lacan's psychology, Arthur C. Clarke's science fiction, Friedrich Wilhelm Neitzche, and more. - A number of Square's other writers, including Tetsuya Nomura himself, have been playing around with Kabbalah since FINAL FANTASY VI and CHRONO TRIGGER. And don't forget Tri-Ace's STAR OCEAN series and VALKYRIE PROFILE series, which Square ENiX published and which play around with Kabbalah, and more, themselves.

I'm making a connection to FULLMETAL ALCHEMIST because Anna and Elsa are as devoted to each other as Ed and Al are to each other, and Sora's relationship to them is similar to Winry's relationship with the Elric brothers. Once more, see my two Fanfictions. I'm not sure that I want to get into Anna's and Elsa's relationships with Sora here, though I have picture proof of this that I've shown other people, since friends of mine who haven't read my Fanfictions and who I've been out of touch with for a long time might be reading or read this Thread, and I don't want to spoil my Fanfictions for them.

Maybe once the Thread title falls off the front Page of KINGDOM HEARTS Insider and there's less of a chance of my friends seeing this Thread I'll talk about Anna, Sora, and Elsa here.

Thank you about Luxord, Vanitas, and Yozora. That's more evidence that the Master is at least Vanitas, and that the Vanitas we've met thus far is a child version of the Master with most or all of his memories gone.

Does Sora specifically mean 'day sky' and not just 'sky?'

Luxu didn't say that Ava fulfilled her role; he says that *he* did.

You can tell that Ava is in love with Ephemer or is at least beginning to fall in love with him from her words, facial expressions, and body language in her conversation with him in BACK COVER. When Ephemer attempts to break the rules Ava jokes about it so as not to hurt Ephemer's feelings by being upset while she seriously reproves the other Foretellers when they so much as *talk* about breaking the rules; she's *very* at ease and comfortable around him while she's often on edge and tense around the other Foretellers; Ava confides to Ephemer that she believes people should think for themselves and not just follow the roles that they've been assigned when Ava won't say anything like that to the other Foretellers so she clearly trusts Ephemer on a level she trusts no one else; and Ava's smiles around Ephemer are a lot more genuine and heartfelt than they are with the other Foretellers, particularly her reaction to Ephemer's last exchange with her about her feeling better.

Ephemer likely showed up to assist Sora in defeating the gigantic Demon Tide at the Keyblade Graveyard specifically to protect *Ava,* whose heart is probably resting inside Kairi's as Ven's heart once rested inside Sora's.

On these lines, Ava/Gula is currently my newest least favorite out-of-character random 'romantic' pairing in 'Fanfiction' - and I use the term in its loosest possible sense, because the popular culture random 'romantic' pairings that have polluted Fanfiction since the Fanfiction.Net Archive was created are *not* genuine Fanfiction.

Paul

"But I *am* darkness. Okay."-Vanitas
KINGDOM HEARTS III

Kokoko253:
I'll discuss Anna, Sora, and Elsa further if you still don't understand the connection that I'm making with spoiler warnings around the discussion. I should have thought of that before.

But, if you read the two Fanfictions anyway, can you please not spoil any facets of my stories in this Thread? Two of my friends who I've dropped out of touch with really enjoyed my KINGDOM HEARTS Fanfiction a long time ago, and I don't want to risk them in particular getting spoiled.

Paul

"How is that okay? Vanitas?"-Sora
KINGDOM HEARTS III

Kokoko253:
I doubt that my response was enough to clarify, so here's my picture proofs that Anna and Sora and Elsa have a connection similar to Edward and Alphonse Elric and Winry Rockbell.

*This is a warning to anyone reading this Thread that spoilers for my two Fanfictions are in the text and the pictures below from now on in this Post until I say the spoilers are over. I recommend that you don't look at the pictures in this Post below as well as that you don't read the text below until I say the spoilers are over if you don't want to be spoiled.*

~~~

Much of the scene where Anna first meets Sora shows that Anna and Sora are developing a strong friendship, but here are two pictures from when Anna reacts to Sora telling Anna about her ability to love and to be there for Elsa, "I'm sure she knows how much you love her. If anyone can help her, it's you." that are evidence that Anna might not just be developing a strong friendship with Sora but that she might be beginning to *fall in love* with Sora, might be falling in love with Sora, or might have fallen in love with Sora.

I'm not arguing that, if Anna has any romantic feelings for Sora, that he returns them. It's possible that he does, but my argument is for a strong friendship between Anna and Sora and, if there's any romance involved, that it's on Anna's side and it's one-sided.

~*~*~*~



~*~*~*~



~*~*~*~

This entire sequence runs on YouTube in the KINGDOM HEARTS III video KINGDOM HEARTS 3 - All Cutscenes Full Movie High Definition from 4:40:09 to 40:40:45.

Additionally, watch the movie KINGDOM HEARTS 3 Movie: All Cutscenes and Secret Ending on YouTube, from 4:36:31 to 4:37:20 for further proof that Sora feels Anna's pain in his heart when Elsa shoots her ice fragment into Anna's heart, even though Sora doesn't feel *anyone's* pain in his heart anywhere else in the KINGDOM HEARTS series who hasn't previously merged with him, not even Kairi's and Riku's.

Here's the screenshot showing that Sora feels Anna's pain in his heart when Elsa shoots her ice fragment into Anna's heart.:

~*~*~*~



~*~*~*~

Here's a series of screenshots from the scene where Anna sacrifices herself to love and to protect Elsa, proving that Anna wanted *Sora,* not Kristoff, to be the one to find her on the frigid lake to, at best, give her the strength and the assured-ness that she needs to love and to protect Elsa, and, at worst, proving that Anna wanted Sora, not Kristoff, to kiss her if - and this is a big 'if' - Anna truly wanted to be loved and protected from her curse herself and she didn't just want Sora to give her the assured-ness and strength that she needed to love and to protect Elsa.

Anna is disappointed, in pain, let down, and anguished when she sees that Kristoff has come onto the frigid ice to her, and not Sora.

~*~*~*~



~*~*~*~

Anna is looking beyond Kristoff in the hopes that Sora will still arrive.

~*~*~*~



~*~*~*~

Anna gives up on that Sora will arrive to give her the strength and the assured-ness she needs to better love and to protect Elsa, as Anna knows that she needs to choose to do and would have chosen to do anyway if Sora wasn't there, and, if Anna truly cares about herself at this point, she gives up on Sora coming to her side to kiss her and to love and to protect her from her curse.

~*~*~*~



~*~*~*~

Anna, after seeing that Hans is about to strike and murder Elsa, gives one last pleading look beyond Kristoff for Sora to come to her side.

~*~*~*~



~*~*~*~

Sora will not come to Anna's side. Heartbroken, Anna turns to love and to protect Elsa on her own by herself.

~*~*~*~



~*~*~*~

Sora races onto the frozen ice to attempt to reach Anna's side and says, "Elsa, Anna..." - specifically using 'Elsa' before 'Anna' because even though Sora is more worried about Anna, he knows that Elsa is more important to Anna than Anna herself - and Anna gains the assured-ness and strength that she needs to attain the special strength to protect what matters.

~*~*~*~



~*~*~*~

This entire segment can be viewed on the YouTube KINGDOM HEARTS III movie KINGDOM HEARTS 3 Movie: All Cutscenes and Secret Ending from 4:46:16 to 4:47:01.

Here's my proof that Anna, after Elsa thaws her and when Anna isn't aware of anyone else but Elsa and Sora, is looking directly at Sora when Elrena/Larxene calls the darkness dome to separate them from each other.

~*~*~*~



~*~*~*~

This can also be seen in the YouTube KINGDOM HEARTS III movie KINGDOM HEARTS 3 Movie: All Cutscenes and Secret Ending from 4:50:30 to 4:50:36.

~~~

*End All Spoilers in words and pictures*

Are you still unclear why I'm comparing Anna, Elsa, and Sora to Ed, Al, and Winry?

Paul

"I'm sure she knows how much you love her. If anyone can help her, it's you."-Sora
KINGDOM HEARTS III
 
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Question to the mods since I can't find the rules thread, but is double posting or this case septuple posting allowed?
 

Oracle Spockanort

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Question to the mods since I can't find the rules thread, but is double posting or this case septuple posting allowed?
No it isn't allowed. I have been busy too busy to merge the posts like we normally would in this situation.
 

Lacan Valeth

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Oracle Spockanort:
I'll Merge the Posts myself.

Thank you for pointing this out.

I'm sorry for any problems that I caused.

Can you please Link me to the Rules Thread so I know what to avoid in the future?

***

I'm sorry to anyone else for any inconvenience.

Oracle Spockanort:
Oh, you *did* have time to do it.

Thank you for cleaning up my mess.

I'm sorry that I didn't Copy-Paste the other Posts myself fast enough to fix my own mistakes.

Are you still willing to Link me to the Rules Thread, please?

If you'd rather I find it myself after I put you through the trouble of cleaning up my own mess, I understand.


You missed Merging one Post in this Thread, so I Copy-Pasted my text from that Post into the Post below it and Deleted the first Post.

Again, I'm sorry for any problems that I caused.

I'll look at my other Thread and Copy-Paste over and Delete any multiple Posts if you or anyone missed any there.


Good, none of the Posts in my first Thread missed getting Merged.

Once more, I'm sorry for any problems that I caused.

***

Once more, I'm sorry to anyone else for any inconvenience.

***

What should I do in the future if I think of something else to say before someone has responded to me? Keep Editing this Post, or is it against the rules to do so after too long an amount of time has passed and then, according to the rules, I *should* make a new Post?

Can someone please tell me what the rules are about this?

***

Hopefully I'm doing this right by Posting this as an Edit. If I should be making a new Post or even a new Thread, can someone please tell me?

Kokoko253:
I just got a list of the Seven Cardinal Virtues from a friend of mine - the same one I'm talking to about the leit-motifs and literary archetypes that I brought up in my newest Thread.

According to him, 'Charity,' which does fit Ava, is the Cardinal Virtue opposed to Greed.

Ava isn't Greed. She's Charity.

***

Since no one is addressing Xion and Lea/Axel in this Thread, I'm beginning a separate Thread about those issues and renaming this one to focus on the Foretellers, et cetera. If this is against the rules, can someone please point it out to me as soon as possible so I can Delete the second Thread and re-integrate Xion and Lea/Axel into this Thread?

Paul

"Sorry... sorry..."-Jowy Atriedes
SUIKODEN II
 
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Kokoko253

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Kokoko253:
I'd argue that, if I remember this correctly - I need to find my DICTIONARY OF ANGELS that my Creative Writing teacher gave me in high school - the Kingdom Keys are the 'keys to the twelve heavenly doors possessed by the Marienkind = Kairi' in the German children's story of the Marienkind. Though they could also be the Papal 'keys to the Kingdom of Heaven,' yes. But they fit the German children's story of the Marienkind a *lot* more, due to Kairi, and perhaps Namine and Xion. - To say nothing of Sora's and Riku's connections to the German poem 'Tief im Schwarzvald.' -

It's interesting that you should bring up XENOGEARS, since, in RE MIND:
*Warning for XENOGEARS Spoilers*
Kairi's and Sora's one-winged angel One Heart dual tech is a specific reference to Nisan's concepts of the one-winged angels. Kairi and Sora even briefly take on the precise poses of the female and male one-winged angel statues in the Nisan Cathedral when they return to The Final World before they touch down on the surface. I haven't yet been able to tell if Kairi and Sora take on the poses of the female and male one-winged angels in the One Heart one-winged angel dual technique itself, but I intend to find out sooner or later, perhaps even today.
*End Spoilers*

Though Tetsuya Takahashi, Soraya Saga, and Masato Kato aren't the sole writers who like to play around with Kabbalah - and Gnosticism; there's Gnosticism in XENOGEARS as well as themes of Carl Gustav Jung's and Jacques Lacan's psychology, Arthur C. Clarke's science fiction, Friedrich Wilhelm Neitzche, and more. - A number of Square's other writers, including Tetsuya Nomura himself, have been playing around with Kabbalah since FINAL FANTASY VI and CHRONO TRIGGER. And don't forget Tri-Ace's STAR OCEAN series and VALKYRIE PROFILE series, which Square ENiX published and which play around with Kabbalah, and more, themselves.

I'm making a connection to FULLMETAL ALCHEMIST because Anna and Elsa are as devoted to each other as Ed and Al are to each other, and Sora's relationship to them is similar to Winry's relationship with the Elric brothers. Once more, see my two Fanfictions. I'm not sure that I want to get into Anna's and Elsa's relationships with Sora here, though I have picture proof of this that I've shown other people, since friends of mine who haven't read my Fanfictions and who I've been out of touch with for a long time might be reading or read this Thread, and I don't want to spoil my Fanfictions for them.

Maybe once the Thread title falls off the front Page of KINGDOM HEARTS Insider and there's less of a chance of my friends seeing this Thread I'll talk about Anna, Sora, and Elsa here.

Thank you about Luxord, Vanitas, and Yozora. That's more evidence that the Master is at least Vanitas, and that the Vanitas we've met thus far is a child version of the Master with most or all of his memories gone.

Does Sora specifically mean 'day sky' and not just 'sky?'

Luxu didn't say that Ava fulfilled her role; he says that *he* did.

You can tell that Ava is in love with Ephemer or is at least beginning to fall in love with him from her words, facial expressions, and body language in her conversation with him in BACK COVER. When Ephemer attempts to break the rules Ava jokes about it so as not to hurt Ephemer's feelings by being upset while she seriously reproves the other Foretellers when they so much as *talk* about breaking the rules; she's *very* at ease and comfortable around him while she's often on edge and tense around the other Foretellers; Ava confides to Ephemer that she believes people should think for themselves and not just follow the roles that they've been assigned when Ava won't say anything like that to the other Foretellers so she clearly trusts Ephemer on a level she trusts no one else; and Ava's smiles around Ephemer are a lot more genuine and heartfelt than they are with the other Foretellers, particularly her reaction to Ephemer's last exchange with her about her feeling better.

Ephemer likely showed up to assist Sora in defeating the gigantic Demon Tide at the Keyblade Graveyard specifically to protect *Ava,* whose heart is probably resting inside Kairi's as Ven's heart once rested inside Sora's.

On these lines, Ava/Gula is currently my newest least favorite out-of-character random 'romantic' pairing in 'Fanfiction' - and I use the term in its loosest possible sense, because the popular culture random 'romantic' pairings that have polluted Fanfiction since the Fanfiction.Net Archive was created are *not* genuine Fanfiction.

Paul

"But I *am* darkness. Okay."-Vanitas
KINGDOM HEARTS III

Kokoko253:
I'll discuss Anna, Sora, and Elsa further if you still don't understand the connection that I'm making with spoiler warnings around the discussion. I should have thought of that before.

But, if you read the two Fanfictions anyway, can you please not spoil any facets of my stories in this Thread? Two of my friends who I've dropped out of touch with really enjoyed my KINGDOM HEARTS Fanfiction a long time ago, and I don't want to risk them in particular getting spoiled.

Paul

"How is that okay? Vanitas?"-Sora
KINGDOM HEARTS III

Kokoko253:
I doubt that my response was enough to clarify, so here's my picture proofs that Anna and Sora and Elsa have a connection similar to Edward and Alphonse Elric and Winry Rockbell.

*This is a warning to anyone reading this Thread that spoilers for my two Fanfictions are in the text and the pictures below from now on in this Post until I say the spoilers are over. I recommend that you don't look at the pictures in this Post below as well as that you don't read the text below until I say the spoilers are over if you don't want to be spoiled.*

~~~

Much of the scene where Anna first meets Sora shows that Anna and Sora are developing a strong friendship, but here are two pictures from when Anna reacts to Sora telling Anna about her ability to love and to be there for Elsa, "I'm sure she knows how much you love her. If anyone can help her, it's you." that are evidence that Anna might not just be developing a strong friendship with Sora but that she might be beginning to *fall in love* with Sora, might be falling in love with Sora, or might have fallen in love with Sora.

I'm not arguing that, if Anna has any romantic feelings for Sora, that he returns them. It's possible that he does, but my argument is for a strong friendship between Anna and Sora and, if there's any romance involved, that it's on Anna's side and it's one-sided.

~*~*~*~



~*~*~*~



~*~*~*~

This entire sequence runs on YouTube in the KINGDOM HEARTS III video KINGDOM HEARTS 3 - All Cutscenes Full Movie High Definition from 4:40:09 to 40:40:45.

Additionally, watch the movie KINGDOM HEARTS 3 Movie: All Cutscenes and Secret Ending on YouTube, from 4:36:31 to 4:37:20 for further proof that Sora feels Anna's pain in his heart when Elsa shoots her ice fragment into Anna's heart, even though Sora doesn't feel *anyone's* pain in his heart anywhere else in the KINGDOM HEARTS series who hasn't previously merged with him, not even Kairi's and Riku's.

Here's the screenshot showing that Sora feels Anna's pain in his heart when Elsa shoots her ice fragment into Anna's heart.:

~*~*~*~



~*~*~*~

Here's a series of screenshots from the scene where Anna sacrifices herself to love and to protect Elsa, proving that Anna wanted *Sora,* not Kristoff, to be the one to find her on the frigid lake to, at best, give her the strength and the assured-ness that she needs to love and to protect Elsa, and, at worst, proving that Anna wanted Sora, not Kristoff, to kiss her if - and this is a big 'if' - Anna truly wanted to be loved and protected from her curse herself and she didn't just want Sora to give her the assured-ness and strength that she needed to love and to protect Elsa.

Anna is disappointed, in pain, let down, and anguished when she sees that Kristoff has come onto the frigid ice to her, and not Sora.

~*~*~*~



~*~*~*~

Anna is looking beyond Kristoff in the hopes that Sora will still arrive.

~*~*~*~



~*~*~*~

Anna gives up on that Sora will arrive to give her the strength and the assured-ness she needs to better love and to protect Elsa, as Anna knows that she needs to choose to do and would have chosen to do anyway if Sora wasn't there, and, if Anna truly cares about herself at this point, she gives up on Sora coming to her side to kiss her and to love and to protect her from her curse.

~*~*~*~



~*~*~*~

Anna, after seeing that Hans is about to strike and murder Elsa, gives one last pleading look beyond Kristoff for Sora to come to her side.

~*~*~*~



~*~*~*~

Sora will not come to Anna's side. Heartbroken, Anna turns to love and to protect Elsa on her own by herself.

~*~*~*~



~*~*~*~

Sora races onto the frozen ice to attempt to reach Anna's side and says, "Elsa, Anna..." - specifically using 'Elsa' before 'Anna' because even though Sora is more worried about Anna, he knows that Elsa is more important to Anna than Anna herself - and Anna gains the assured-ness and strength that she needs to attain the special strength to protect what matters.

~*~*~*~



~*~*~*~

This entire segment can be viewed on the YouTube KINGDOM HEARTS III movie KINGDOM HEARTS 3 Movie: All Cutscenes and Secret Ending from 4:46:16 to 4:47:01.

Here's my proof that Anna, after Elsa thaws her and when Anna isn't aware of anyone else but Elsa and Sora, is looking directly at Sora when Elrena/Larxene calls the darkness dome to separate them from each other.

~*~*~*~



~*~*~*~

This can also be seen in the YouTube KINGDOM HEARTS III movie KINGDOM HEARTS 3 Movie: All Cutscenes and Secret Ending from 4:50:30 to 4:50:36.

~~~

*End All Spoilers in words and pictures*

Are you still unclear why I'm comparing Anna, Elsa, and Sora to Ed, Al, and Winry?

Paul

"I'm sure she knows how much you love her. If anyone can help her, it's you."-Sora
KINGDOM HEARTS III
I'm sorry, what? How, why, what on Earth? You arrived to the conclusion that Anna is in love with Sora based on a total of 2 minutes of cutscenes taken mostly from the movie, and somehow this supposed to prove that Fullmetal Alchemist and Kingdom Hearts are connected? Also, please don't treat your fanfics as canon.

On the matter of Ava and Ephemer, shipping is fine, but with so little to go by its insane to build theories on that Ava is in love with Ephemer. Judging from how the Union Leaders talk about her, she seems to treat everyone as she does Ephemer.
 

astertide

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If you're saying all the Foretellers have names based on the seven deadly sins, I can connect everyone but Ava with them. 'Ira' is 'Wrath,' 'Invi' is 'Pride,' 'Aced' is 'Envy,' and 'Gula' is 'Gluttony' - correct me if I'm wrong. But 'Ava' is 'Eve/Eve Hawwa/Serpent Mother/Earth Mother/Holy Mother,' and *she,* unlike the other Foretellers, didn't resign herself to her role due to the love she shares with Ephemer.
Ira = Wrath
Invi = Envy (Invidia)
Aced = Sloth (Acedia)
Gula = Gluttony
Ava = Greed (Avaritia)
Luxu = Lust (Luxuria)
Xsuper = Pride (Superbia)

But even though they're named after those sins, their personalities seem to follow their corresponding virtues.
Ira = Wrath = Patience
Invi = Envy (Invidia) = Kindness
Aced = Sloth (Acedia) = Diligence
Gula = Gluttony = Temperance
Ava = Greed (Avaritia) = Charity
Luxu = Lust (Luxuria) = Chastity
Xsuper = Pride (Superbia) = Humility

Does anyone know what 'Luxord' is Latin for, if anything?

What is 'Vanitas' Latin for? 'Vanity' or 'Vanish' or both?

What does 'Yozora' mean in Japanese? 'Space' or 'Star,' opposed to Sora who is 'Sky?'
Luxord is not latin for anything. However "ludor" is latin for "to play," so that's the most likely name for his Somebody.

Vanitas is latin for "emptiness," however it is also the root of the word "vanity."

Yozora means "night sky" in Japanese.

I recommend you check out this post by @LBJENmariposa
I refer back to it a lot. It's incredibly useful.
Kingdom Hearts Names Meanings - 41 Characters Including Dark Road
^
 
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Lacan Valeth

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Kokoko253:
It doesn't matter how short or long the cutscenes are. Look at Anna's facial expressions and body language. You can say more with less.

I have other evidence Anna is beginning to fall in love with Sora, is falling in love with Sora, or is in love with Sora, but I don't know if I want to get into any of that here, so I won't for now.

When did I say my Fanfictions are canon? I said they have their own canon, not that they're the official canon.

How does Ava treat others in KYE, UNCHAINED KYE, and UNION CROSS? Because she treats Ephemer *a lot* different in BACK COVER than she treats anyone else.

Astertide:
My friend Piccolo Sky already reminded me what the Seven Cardinal Virtues are, and I brought them up in another Thread. And someone else already corrected me on the Seven Deadly Sins, and someone else told me what Yozora means. Thank you anyway, though. Thank you for the Luxord names, and his possible 'somebody' name, as well.

I'm sorry that I forgot to thank you about the Luxord names, and his possible 'somebody' name, yesterday.

And thank you for the Post Link. I might look at that another time.

So Vanitas *does* mean 'emptiness.'

Which is what Data-Sora said that he felt when he lost his memories of his loved ones and friends, which can be compared to Xion, the 'Nobody hailing from the very edge of oblivion.' And the Master supposedly vanished unto oblivion, as did Sora, and Sora met Yozora in oblivion. So this *is* more evidence that Yozora and Vanitas and the Master are one and the same.

Paul

"Disappear into the air."-Edward Elric
FULLMETAL ALCHEMIST:
Episode 47: SEALING THE HOMUNCULUS
 
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Kokoko253

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Kokoko253:
It doesn't matter how short or long the cutscenes are. Look at Anna's facial expressions and body language. You can say more with less.

I have other evidence Anna is beginning to fall in love with Sora, is falling in love with Sora, or is in love with Sora, but I don't know if I want to get into any of that here, so I won't for now.

When did I say my Fanfictions are canon? I said they have their own canon, not that they're the official canon.

How does Ava treat others in KYE, UNCHAINED KYE, and UNION CROSS? Because she treats Ephemer *a lot* different in BACK COVER than she treats anyone else.

Astertide:
My friend Piccolo Sky already reminded me what the Seven Cardinal Virtues are, and I brought them up in another Thread. And someone else already corrected me on the Seven Deadly Sins, and someone else told me what Yozora means. Thank you anyway, though. Thank you for the Luxord names, and his possible 'somebody' name, as well.

I'm sorry that I forgot to thank you about the Luxord names, and his possible 'somebody' name, yesterday.

And thank you for the Post Link. I might look at that another time.

So Vanitas *does* mean 'emptiness.'

Which is what Data-Sora said that he felt when he lost his memories of his loved ones and friends, which can be compared to Xion, the 'Nobody hailing from the very edge of oblivion.' And the Master supposedly vanished unto oblivion, as did Sora, and Sora met Yozora in oblivion. So this *is* more evidence that Yozora and Vanitas and the Master are one and the same.

Paul

"Disappear into the air."-Edward Elric
FULLMETAL ALCHEMIST:
Episode 47: SEALING THE HOMUNCULUS
Come on, Anna looks at everyone like that. Also she looks at Sora only in one of your pictures. Sora is not even there for the rest, you just assume what Anna thinks. If your pictures are enough proof that she is in love with Sora, than I have proof that she is in love with Goofy.

What do you mean by "a lot different"? In Back Cover, not counting the Master and his apprentices, Ephemer was the only human who had a spoken line. We saw how she treats those who are above or at the same level as her in hierarchy. She is humble, but has a somewhat playful side. Considering these were the exact traits she expressed with Ephemer, and that he is under her, nothing indicates that she treats him differently. If anything, she has a tighter bond with Brain, considering how much she trusts him. Everyone in Union Cross who met her agreed that she was easy to talk to and kind. Ephemer had the same experience as the others.
 

Lacan Valeth

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Kokoko253:
I re-watched every single scene in the Arendelle FROZEN arc of KINGDOM HEARTS III, and Anna doesn't look at anyone other than Sora the way that she looks at Sora specifically in the first two pictures.

As for the others, I'm not assuming anything, given the context. I recommend that you watch live action, animated, or computer generated stories with good actors or good facial expressions and/or body language. You'll understand what I mean then.

Ava is *far* more considerate of Ephemer's feelings, and playful with him, than with anyone else in BACK COVER, and it has nothing to do with hierarchy. The other Foretellers are *Ava's lifelong friends,* yet she's more distant with them than with Ephemer.

Lastly, I *highly doubt* that Ava smiles at other people the way that she smiles at Ephemer at the end of her scene with him in BACK COVER, considering the nature of her facial expression, no matter how kind she is and no matter how easy to talk to she is. You *don't* smile at someone like that unless you have a *very strong connection* with that person. I recommend that you re-watch Ava's scene with Ephemer.

You're the third person on this Site, assuming I'm not forgetting anyone, who has told me that you can't understand anything from a person's facial expressions or body language. That makes no sense. One of the central points of using plays, live action movies, live action television, hand drawn animation, and computer graphics animation to tell stories is to convey characterization with facial expressions and body language. Now that Video Games have enhanced their graphical abilities enough, they're doing the same.

If movies, Video Games, et cetera, didn't do this, why aren't we just reading books? Why are plays, television shows, hand drawn animation, Video Games, et cetera, worldwide storytelling mediums?

Paul

"Elsa ran away because she was frightened. I have to bring her home."-Anna
"I'm sure your sister knows how much you love her. If anyone can help her, it's you."-Sora
KINGDOM HEARTS III
 
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