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The explanation of nobodies



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Samhain

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so now nobodies can grow new hearts?

what in the actual fk? im sorry but nomura rly messed up a lot of things in this game.
 

MasterZeR0

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No he didn't. Xemnas lied when he told the other members that they had no hearts. It was a part of Xehanort's plan.
 

Samhain

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its stupid because if they were just the body and soul, now we have

"Yeah nobodies can grow hearts now"
"A heart can grow back"

...
 

Waves_Blade

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It's Kingdom Hearts,

Doesn't need an explanation, go with the flow and enjoy.
 

Samhain

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It's Kingdom Hearts,

Doesn't need an explanation, go with the flow and enjoy.

people always say "its kingdom hearts"

kingdom hearts had its own rules too in its own universe. clearly now its just 1 big weird orgy
 

Memory Master

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so now nobodies can grow new hearts?

what in the actual fk? im sorry but nomura rly messed up a lot of things in this game.

I don't see the problem. Xehanort/Xemnas is a sick twisted asshole who lied to the organization members and used them. The whole purpose of Organization XIII was to create 13 Xehanorts.

Besides we don't even know yet if this applies to only the humanoid nobodies or to lesser nobodies too.

Besides, it has been hinted through out the series that they had hearts, Nomura has probably had this planned since KH2 if you look at all the hints in the series.
 

djam2410

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maybe the purpose of killing heartless and destroying them was so that the hearts released once destroyed would hopefully find their ways into the Org. 13 ?
 

WilliamTheWise

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What? So what about the Heart/Body/Soul thing, has that just been thrown out the window? So when the original members were turned into heartless their hearts went to their heartless, so where does this nobody heart come from? Is it like a false heart or an imprint of their human heart?
 

luna008

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people always say "its kingdom hearts"

kingdom hearts had its own rules too in its own universe. clearly now its just 1 big weird orgy

dude...theres talking ducks, dogs and mice, gravity defying hair, and some much other random stuff. theres only two real rules in the kh universe. 1) light will always win. 2)there are no other rules!!!!
 

MasterZeR0

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What? So what about the Heart/Body/Soul thing, has that just been thrown out the window? So when the original members were turned into heartless their hearts went to their heartless, so where does this nobody heart come from? Is it like a false heart or an imprint of their human heart?

Well, seeing as Nobodies are NOT the same person they used to be, it's not hard to presume that their hearts are entirely separate, new, full hearts.
 

WilliamTheWise

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Well, seeing as Nobodies are NOT the same person they used to be, it's not hard to presume that their hearts are entirely separate, new, full hearts.
I guess you're right. Not really liking it though. I guess I just liked the order created from nobodies not having hearts as there's a "Matter cannot be created nor destroyed" kind of order to it. All the elements of life were evenly divided among the enemies. Now a heart is magically given to the nobodies. Where does this heart go, and why didn't it float out when they died. Could a nobody become a heartless and continue the cycle of new life being born. So many questions....

I'm just an old stubborn Forum member lol. Felt the same when we learned heartless were always in the realm of darkness.
 

kirabook

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It makes sense mostly. Xemnas did lie about Nobodies having hearts, but it's not a lie that they are a bit different from their originals. Take Roxas for example, and not his appearance, but his actual attitude. In most ways, he's nothing like Sora at all. *and there's nothing wrong with that* People could say, "Well, he's more like Ven" but he's not like Ven either.

When Nobodies are destroyed along with their heartless, I imagine their new budding hearts and their old hearts combine. Depending on how the new budding heart developed could have great influence of their old heart.

Take Xigbar and Saix for example, both were destroyed and are probably merged with their original hearts, but obviously whatever was done to their budding nobody hearts overrode their original hearts *especially in Isa's case*
***Hey! The "X" in everyone's name has even more meaning now!!***

Anyway, that would mean Sora really does have like, 3 hearts technically right? What a nice spacy apartment complex he is. XD
 

Genocide

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It makes sense.

From the beginning, Nomura has said that hearts are the proof of life. They live, therefore a heart exists. This heart is created by just being, which nobodies can do. Literally by having life experiences, can they create another heart.

Roxas gained his own heart while having Ven's fractured heart. So yeah, Sora has 3 hearts.

This puts the concept of nobodies into a better context. The heart is the identity. Without that original heart, you aren't that person. You may grow another one, but it is still not that original heart. Therefore, even with a new heart, you aren't that original person.

So my first theory ever was right.
Damn.
 

Vani

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I guess you're right. Not really liking it though. I guess I just liked the order created from nobodies not having hearts as there's a "Matter cannot be created nor destroyed" kind of order to it. All the elements of life were evenly divided among the enemies. Now a heart is magically given to the nobodies. Where does this heart go, and why didn't it float out when they died. Could a nobody become a heartless and continue the cycle of new life being born. So many questions....

I'm just an old stubborn Forum member lol. Felt the same when we learned heartless were always in the realm of darkness.
Its not necessarily "Nobodies had hearts the whole time," it's more like strong Nobodies (Axel, Roxas, etc.) can grow their own heart and become their own person.
 

Radar

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I was hit very hard when I learned this plot-point. But hey, now it makes things 13X more intense.
 

Luap

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Kinda making some connections her with other stuff.
Look at Data!Sora. After his Keyblade got broke he summoned a new one. Maybe since he experienced different things than real Sora he "grew" a different heart and summoned a Keyblade. Nomura never did answer whether his new Keyblade was real or not. I think I remember in the Ultimania that this was a theme for the game.

Also, makes me think about Replicas. Maybe Xion developed her own heart too. And maybe Repliku too (that's a lost cause though, probably ;_;).

And, I wonder what this implies for Roxas. Since he has Ven's heart, maybe Roxas was making Ven's heart grow (this being the key to recovering Ven's heart?). Or, maybe Roxas had two hearts. His own and Ven's. And now Sora has 3 hearts (4 if Xion grew one).

And, does Lea have two hearts now? He original and the one that grew while being Axel? Or would those hearts merge? Or maybe the Axel heart was destroyed. Or maybe the Lea heart remains gone forever and the Axel heart only remains?

Maybe everything that is a separate entity from what it was created from grows it's own Heart?
 

Sephiroth0812

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Its not necessarily "Nobodies had hearts the whole time," it's more like strong Nobodies (Axel, Roxas, etc.) can grow their own heart and become their own person.

I agree, that's what I got out of Xemnas' rambling towards Sora as well.
Sora started with lashing out at Xigbar that "Nobodies have hearts too, right?" (it's not the exact quote, but the meaning fits). Shortly before that, he has received the memories and the pain of Naminé, Xion and Roxas and realized that because they could be angry, happy, sad and also cried (which Nomura pointed out way back in KH2 is a proof of having a heart) they had hearts.
Xigbar confirms this and then Xemnas pops up and says: "Yes...we didn't stay without hearts."
Meaning Nobodies indeed have no heart at the beginning, as their orginal heart (and therefore the original self) is trapped in their Heartless.
Xemnas goes on to explain that in some of them new hearts were born, describing them as "buds" needed to be cultivated. This ties in wonderfully with Axel, who in CoM was very much emotionless but became more and more emotional over the course of the series, meaning the new heart was growing.
This also ties in with Sora (who had understood the concept earlier) reassuring Roxas that they aren't the same and that he wishes Roxas could exist for himself.

Kinda making some connections her with other stuff.
Look at Data!Sora. After his Keyblade got broke he summoned a new one. Maybe since he experienced different things than real Sora he "grew" a different heart and summoned a Keyblade. Nomura never did answer whether his new Keyblade was real or not. I think I remember in the Ultimania that this was a theme for the game.

Also, makes me think about Replicas. Maybe Xion developed her own heart too. And maybe Repliku too (that's a lost cause though, probably ;_;).

And, I wonder what this implies for Roxas. Since he has Ven's heart, maybe Roxas was making Ven's heart grow (this being the key to recovering Ven's heart?). Or, maybe Roxas had two hearts. His own and Ven's. And now Sora has 3 hearts (4 if Xion grew one).

And, does Lea have two hearts now? He original and the one that grew while being Axel? Or would those hearts merge? Or maybe the Axel heart was destroyed. Or maybe the Lea heart remains gone forever and the Axel heart only remains?

Maybe everything that is a separate entity from what it was created from grows it's own Heart?

The theme "Can a heart be born in an existence made of Data?" was indeed brought up by Nomura. The whole conversation with Pete hints towards it and Mickey alluded to it in-game as well.
The new Keyblade was also a Data-construct, but according to Mickey not programmed in by Chip and Dale like the first one that got destroyed by Maleficent.

Here are the bits about that from Coded:
KH Re: Coded said:
Pete: Peh, he's nothing but data.
He doesn't even have a heart!

Goofy: That's not true! Sora has a heart.
It even reached us.

Pete: ...What?

Donald: We've been watching, the whole time. No matter how tough things got, no matter how much danger he was in, Sora kept on fighting to help everybody.

Goofy: He even said he'd fight with us! His feelings, they're so deep, and so happy! That's how... that's how we know for sure! Sora has a heart, and it's inside of us!

Donald: Our connected hearts are our power!

KH Re: Coded said:
Pete: What's going on here!? I thought Maleficent destroyed that thing...

Voice: It looks like a new power has emerged from inside you.
(The camera turns to the entrance, revealing the speaker)

Sora: Mickey!
(Mickey enters the room and stands with the party)

Sora: What's going on? What's this new power?

Mickey: I don't know all the details, but... I think something has awakened inside of you. The keyblade is tightly connected to the Power of the Heart. Yet, an old friend told me that the Heart can't be turned into Data. Still, as you came up all this way, we developed a Bond. It might have created something new, something that goes beyond data. I'm sure it's a unique new power that you obtained through the bonds with your friends across the worlds.

The hints are alerady there, but probably most fans and audience thought it's a metaphorical thing and not meant literally.

Here's the bit from Nomura:
Nomura in the Re: Coded Ultimania said:
Data Sora can newly obtain a legitimate Keyblade during his adventure, but are there changes to the real Keyblade when that happens?

Nomura: No, it’s a data version the entire time. However like with the first Keyblade, it wasn’t created by someone else. It comes from the heart’s connections with the data, hinting towards the story theme, “Can a heart be born in an existence made of data?”

---

As far as I remember it was said in CoM that Replicas have artificial hearts, so yes, Repliku had one. How else could Naminé have shattered it when he was about to kill Sora by erasing his memories.

---

Roxas is indeed a bit iffy there, but if I understood it correctly Roxas was originally intended to be the perfect 13th vessel for Xehanort, but was ultimately rejected/deemed unfit because he developed a too independent sense of self, according to what YMX explained to Riku.
So I would assume that Roxas at least had/has a "heart-bud", an early stage of an own heart, while Ven's heart came only into real play when dual-wielding aspired.
Since he had no memories to build upon, his new heart would be even "more new" than those of the other Org members who still had memories of their human counterparts.
However, while growing his own "bud" it is entirely possible that Roxas "developed" Ven's heart partly alongside as well, healing some of the damage done to it in the end of BBS.
Roxas having two hearts would then give also more credibility to the dual-wielding, and Sora having three (or possibly four) for the triple wielding in KH2 FM in the Roxas-fight.
Furthermore, Young Xehanort and Vanitas speaking of hearts in plural confined in Sora (if the translation is correct) would then also make sense and deliver a sort of reason why and how Roxas, Xion and Naminé could return to the world and "born from sleep".

That is a good question, the Lea-heart is of course still there, as it comes back when the Heartless is destroyed. What happens to the "nobody heart" is questionable, it may be swallowed entirely by darkness, the memories transferred to the heart of the original being, or it may indeed fuse with the heart of its original being.

I would not set that in stone yet as we don't know exactly how it functions yet and also because Xemnas only said "Some of us were able to have hearts born inside of us.", implying it is not a given that a Nobody can grow a new heart.

I sincerely hope that Ansem's data may have some answers towards this, as in the second part of the ending Ansem talks rather long with Riku and his data is said to be the results of his heart, emotions and Nobodies-research.
 

flurryflames

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This also explains things in Kingdom Hearts2 FM when Demyx seems to have emotions while Xenmas tells him to stop acting upon false emotions. Also the part where he showed his another side to him at Roxas for leaving the organization before he fights him.

For all we know Xeohanort, Xenmas or whoever could still have these hearts and would use them as bait to get what they want. That keyblade extract hearts and could probably put them back as well.
 
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