- Joined
- Jul 30, 2014
- Messages
- 753
- Awards
- 13
Hello KHinsider community! I've decided to try and find reasoning to some of the bigger plot twists and grey areas. Keep in mind that this is not considered factual! Just speculation and opinion of finding a deeper meaning.
Note: If this isn't the right place for this article, please redirect me! Thanks!
Today I'm going to delve into a mystery that surrounds one of the series enigmas, Nobodies. To get started let me quote a passage from the KH Wiki (wasn't able to access the original source, sorry ).
"When defeated, Nobodies are dragged into darkness; however, when a person's Heartless and Nobody both are defeated, that person is restored to their original, complete form, with their memories from their time as a Nobody intact. Lea, Ienzo, Dilan, and Aeleus all return to their human forms after their Nobodies are defeated; presumably their Heartless had been defeated at an earlier point."
Alright, so there are two important rules we can take from this. First, after a person's Heartless and Nobody are defeated that person returns to their regular, human self. Second, the person's Heartless must have been defeated before the Nobody has.
Now let's look at the background of the rules. This takes us to the ending of KH Re:coded where Master Yen Sid is talking with Mickey. Ole Yen Sid delivered the zinger that Master Xehanort has been revived after Sora defeated Ansem SoD (Heartless) and Xemnas (Nobody) in that order. So we can see that Xehanort is the prime example that the rules are in fact accurate. Because we literally defeat his Heartless and Nobody in that order.
So what about those we don't have proof for? You know, like Lea, Ienzo, Dilan and Aeleus (and Isa? maybe next time..). Okay well the only physical proof that we have is that all the Organization Nobodies were defeated. What about their Heartless? By the rules, since those four were brought back we can assume that their Heartless were destroyed before the events of Re: CoM and II. Also since they are powerful Nobodies it would make sense that they have powerful Heartless, right? So this means one of two things.
First! Their Heartless Resemble their Nobody Element Powers or Physical Attributes
To start us off let us take someone as an example. For this part, Lea. We know he wields Fire and is pretty quick. Right off the top of my head let's say the Heat Saber.
This Heartless uses the Fire element and it's fairly fast as far as Heartless go. Seems like the prime example of Lea's Heartless. Other possibilities are Volcanic Lord and the Trickmaster.
The Volcanic Lord and the Blizzard Lord seem like prime suspects for Lea and Evan's Heartless. Except for the fact that Evan's Nobody, Vexen died before the Blizzard Lord was defeated. Which nixes that possibility and makes the Volcanic Lord a little less likely. As for the Trickmaster, it seems like a good suspect and nothing really glares at me as to why it can't be Lea's Heartless. However the Heat Saber boosts it's odds because it has various elemental cousins.
For instance:
Chill Reaper could be Evan's. Blitz Spear could be Larxene's. Dual Blade could be Dilan's.
Now of course there isn't enough of variations to cover the entire Organization. So this idea still has it's flaws. Also there are some Organization members that have powers that Heartless do not show.
This is when we have to examine the second part of this option: Physical Attributes.
This part is pretty easy to make assumptions. For instance let's go with Aeleus' Nobody, Lexaeus.
To carry that giant axe, it's easy to believe he's the strongest Organization member. So we just need to find the most physically strong Heartless. Let's see the contender.
Gotta go Infernal Engine here. It just looks like a physically imposing threat. It has physically brutal attacks such as ramming and it's hammer attack. My other choice would probably be a Behemoth or a variation of one.
Let's try again with Ienzo's Nobody, Zexion.
Well the biggest attribute I can see is that he uses a book as a weapon. So which Heartless uses a book as a weapon anyway?
Oh yeah.. Barrier Master from Days.. However this is still a quick assumption. Unfortunately Barrier Master isn't a boss and it has two variations that uses books as weapons. It fits from a physical attribute standpoint but it doesn't seem unique enough. Which brings us to our second point.
Second! Their Heartless Aid the Nobodies in Some Sort of Way
In Radiant Garden at the Dark Depths we know from Saix's example that Nobodies have the ability to control Heartless. Would it be reasonable that Organization members would use their own Heartless as their personal ally?
For instance what if Luxord's Heartless was the one he summoned in Port Royal.
The Grim Reaper. In no way does it resemble Luxord physically or elementally (like maybe the Phantom does), but why would he summon this Heartless? He knows it's strong and maybe it's because he knows it's his Heartless.
Unfortunately there is still a flaw in this thinking. At first I came to the conclusion that this would mean Xaldin's Heartless counterpart could by the one he summoned in Beast's Castle.
The only problem with the Shadow Stalker and Dark Thorn is that they're Pureblood Heartless instead of Emblem. Why is this a big deal? Well it's not confirmed for certain whether Ansem SoD is a Pureblood or an Emblem Heartless. However the biggest hint for me is that he bears an Emblem on his chest which means he would be an Emblem Heartless by normal Heartless rules (Ansem isn't a normal Heartless though ). The main point being that if Ansem SoD is an Emblem Heartless it would make sense that the other Organization members would have Emblem Heartless counterparts as well.
Wait! What about the Organization members that don't fall into either categories?
Well sadly, it's near impossible (and not really necessary to the plot) to really deduce which member had what Heartless counterpart. However it might be intentional. Let's look at two members, Demyx and Marluxia. There are not clear cut Heartless that use Water or Flowers. I mean yeah we have water based Atlantica Heartless and Creeper Plant variations, but no strong boss types that fit the description. Or any that mimic their personalities or physical attributes. Yes I'm not gonna count non-boss Heartless like the Deserter or Bouncywild p) either.
I do have a theory though that not seeing Marluxia, Demyx, Larxene and Luxord's somebodies in BBS or DDD means that Nomura may not have been sure if he wanted those characters back in future titles. Sure the option is there if he wants it, but right now he could say that Sora, Roxas, Riku or Mickey didn't kill their Heartless before the members got axed. Meaning that those four may be gone for good. Now on the flip side Nomura could say that Riku or Mickey killed the Heartless of Luxord or Demyx when Sora was sleeping. Or that Roxas could have killed any of those four's Heartless in a mission we didn't play and got skipped in Days.
Sum Up
Pretty much all I have on the subject. Let's take a short review going by the rules.
Sora and Roxas (possibly Mickey) had to have defeated the Heartless counterparts of Evan, Ienzo, and Aeleus before the events of Re:CoM where the Nobodies met their end.
Sora, Roxas, Mickey and Riku had to have defeated the Heartless counterparts of Lea and Dilan before their Nobodies met their end in KH II.
Luxord and Larxene have ties to certain Heartless by either summoning or elemental means. Marluxia and Demyx do not have any ties although their Heartless may have been defeated "off screen" during blank points. All four of these members do not return in DDD as Somebodies so they may be written off due to their Heartless not being destroyed before themselves.
Saix and Xigbar are special as far as their return to human (Xehanort) form is concerned.
Some members have ties to their Heartless counterparts in two areas: Elemental and Physical Attributes and Aided in Some Way.
Those Nobodies that do not are Saix, Xigbar, Marluxia, Demyx and Zexion (Odd, because he's returned to his human form).
Taking This a Bit too Far..
Not impressed about how complex that was? Well.. how about this?
Check it. The Accessory Store NPC guy is the poor sap who's an example of how people are turned into Heartless. Being reduced to a lowly Soldier Heartless at that. So we shouldn't see him again right? Well as we all know, this man is the guy who takes over the Accessory Shop after Cid (hence his name). Some people may theorize that he's the Nobody of the Accessory Store NPC.
[video=youtube;4mceW9jMZn0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mceW9jMZn0[/video]
Close but I don't think so myself. If a person is turned into a lowly Soldier Heartless than wouldn't it make sense that you'd turn into a lowly Dusk Nobody?
You see where I'm going with this? This man has been returned to his human form. Sora killed a bunch of Soldier Heartless so it would make sense that he'd eventually kill the Accessory Store NPC's Heartless. What about his Nobody? Well in Days, Roxas underwent training in The Castle That Never Was by fighting low ranking Nobodies. At this point in the series Marluxia or Larxene would be fairly new Organization members so it's plausible that they trained against low ranking Nobodies as well. Most notably defeating the Accessory Store NPC's Nobody.
This would mean that this guy would be returned to his human state and resume his job at managing the Accessory Store.
Mind blown yet?
Leave feedback about how you enjoyed the breakdown and maybe suggestions about what I should look at next.
Note: If this isn't the right place for this article, please redirect me! Thanks!
Today I'm going to delve into a mystery that surrounds one of the series enigmas, Nobodies. To get started let me quote a passage from the KH Wiki (wasn't able to access the original source, sorry ).
"When defeated, Nobodies are dragged into darkness; however, when a person's Heartless and Nobody both are defeated, that person is restored to their original, complete form, with their memories from their time as a Nobody intact. Lea, Ienzo, Dilan, and Aeleus all return to their human forms after their Nobodies are defeated; presumably their Heartless had been defeated at an earlier point."
Alright, so there are two important rules we can take from this. First, after a person's Heartless and Nobody are defeated that person returns to their regular, human self. Second, the person's Heartless must have been defeated before the Nobody has.
Now let's look at the background of the rules. This takes us to the ending of KH Re:coded where Master Yen Sid is talking with Mickey. Ole Yen Sid delivered the zinger that Master Xehanort has been revived after Sora defeated Ansem SoD (Heartless) and Xemnas (Nobody) in that order. So we can see that Xehanort is the prime example that the rules are in fact accurate. Because we literally defeat his Heartless and Nobody in that order.
So what about those we don't have proof for? You know, like Lea, Ienzo, Dilan and Aeleus (and Isa? maybe next time..). Okay well the only physical proof that we have is that all the Organization Nobodies were defeated. What about their Heartless? By the rules, since those four were brought back we can assume that their Heartless were destroyed before the events of Re: CoM and II. Also since they are powerful Nobodies it would make sense that they have powerful Heartless, right? So this means one of two things.
First! Their Heartless Resemble their Nobody Element Powers or Physical Attributes
To start us off let us take someone as an example. For this part, Lea. We know he wields Fire and is pretty quick. Right off the top of my head let's say the Heat Saber.
This Heartless uses the Fire element and it's fairly fast as far as Heartless go. Seems like the prime example of Lea's Heartless. Other possibilities are Volcanic Lord and the Trickmaster.
The Volcanic Lord and the Blizzard Lord seem like prime suspects for Lea and Evan's Heartless. Except for the fact that Evan's Nobody, Vexen died before the Blizzard Lord was defeated. Which nixes that possibility and makes the Volcanic Lord a little less likely. As for the Trickmaster, it seems like a good suspect and nothing really glares at me as to why it can't be Lea's Heartless. However the Heat Saber boosts it's odds because it has various elemental cousins.
For instance:
Chill Reaper could be Evan's. Blitz Spear could be Larxene's. Dual Blade could be Dilan's.
Now of course there isn't enough of variations to cover the entire Organization. So this idea still has it's flaws. Also there are some Organization members that have powers that Heartless do not show.
This is when we have to examine the second part of this option: Physical Attributes.
This part is pretty easy to make assumptions. For instance let's go with Aeleus' Nobody, Lexaeus.
Let's try again with Ienzo's Nobody, Zexion.
Oh yeah.. Barrier Master from Days.. However this is still a quick assumption. Unfortunately Barrier Master isn't a boss and it has two variations that uses books as weapons. It fits from a physical attribute standpoint but it doesn't seem unique enough. Which brings us to our second point.
Second! Their Heartless Aid the Nobodies in Some Sort of Way
In Radiant Garden at the Dark Depths we know from Saix's example that Nobodies have the ability to control Heartless. Would it be reasonable that Organization members would use their own Heartless as their personal ally?
For instance what if Luxord's Heartless was the one he summoned in Port Royal.
Unfortunately there is still a flaw in this thinking. At first I came to the conclusion that this would mean Xaldin's Heartless counterpart could by the one he summoned in Beast's Castle.
Wait! What about the Organization members that don't fall into either categories?
Well sadly, it's near impossible (and not really necessary to the plot) to really deduce which member had what Heartless counterpart. However it might be intentional. Let's look at two members, Demyx and Marluxia. There are not clear cut Heartless that use Water or Flowers. I mean yeah we have water based Atlantica Heartless and Creeper Plant variations, but no strong boss types that fit the description. Or any that mimic their personalities or physical attributes. Yes I'm not gonna count non-boss Heartless like the Deserter or Bouncywild p) either.
I do have a theory though that not seeing Marluxia, Demyx, Larxene and Luxord's somebodies in BBS or DDD means that Nomura may not have been sure if he wanted those characters back in future titles. Sure the option is there if he wants it, but right now he could say that Sora, Roxas, Riku or Mickey didn't kill their Heartless before the members got axed. Meaning that those four may be gone for good. Now on the flip side Nomura could say that Riku or Mickey killed the Heartless of Luxord or Demyx when Sora was sleeping. Or that Roxas could have killed any of those four's Heartless in a mission we didn't play and got skipped in Days.
Sum Up
Pretty much all I have on the subject. Let's take a short review going by the rules.
Sora and Roxas (possibly Mickey) had to have defeated the Heartless counterparts of Evan, Ienzo, and Aeleus before the events of Re:CoM where the Nobodies met their end.
Sora, Roxas, Mickey and Riku had to have defeated the Heartless counterparts of Lea and Dilan before their Nobodies met their end in KH II.
Luxord and Larxene have ties to certain Heartless by either summoning or elemental means. Marluxia and Demyx do not have any ties although their Heartless may have been defeated "off screen" during blank points. All four of these members do not return in DDD as Somebodies so they may be written off due to their Heartless not being destroyed before themselves.
Saix and Xigbar are special as far as their return to human (Xehanort) form is concerned.
Some members have ties to their Heartless counterparts in two areas: Elemental and Physical Attributes and Aided in Some Way.
Those Nobodies that do not are Saix, Xigbar, Marluxia, Demyx and Zexion (Odd, because he's returned to his human form).
Taking This a Bit too Far..
Not impressed about how complex that was? Well.. how about this?
[video=youtube;4mceW9jMZn0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mceW9jMZn0[/video]
Close but I don't think so myself. If a person is turned into a lowly Soldier Heartless than wouldn't it make sense that you'd turn into a lowly Dusk Nobody?
You see where I'm going with this? This man has been returned to his human form. Sora killed a bunch of Soldier Heartless so it would make sense that he'd eventually kill the Accessory Store NPC's Heartless. What about his Nobody? Well in Days, Roxas underwent training in The Castle That Never Was by fighting low ranking Nobodies. At this point in the series Marluxia or Larxene would be fairly new Organization members so it's plausible that they trained against low ranking Nobodies as well. Most notably defeating the Accessory Store NPC's Nobody.
This would mean that this guy would be returned to his human state and resume his job at managing the Accessory Store.
Mind blown yet?
Leave feedback about how you enjoyed the breakdown and maybe suggestions about what I should look at next.
Last edited: