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The creation of Naminé and Roxas makes 0 sense. Please help me.



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Bejabbers

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Secret Ansem Report 10 said:
Naminé emerged as Kairi's Nobody...but the body and soul necessary to exist as a Nobody belonged to Sora.

Which makes me wonder how the Japanese version of the reports explained it. I'm curious now.

-----

Anyone has a hold of those or any translations of that?

裏アンセムレポート10 said:
ナミネは、カイリのノーバディとして生じた。
だがノーバディとして在るために用いた媒介は、
ソラの肉体と魂だった……。

Full report here.
 

Noivern

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Ventus's involvement in all of this is completely cosmetic. He's in Sora's body, so with the absence of Sora's heart, the body takes on the shape of the only heart left. That's it. Roxas doesn't wield because of Ventus. Naminé isn't blonde because of Ventus. He's just there.

Eh, I'm not exactly sure about that, simply because we know know that the somebodies of Marluxia, Larxene and Xemnas are all wielders and neither of them seem capable of using their Keyblades. Xigbar seems to be because his was with Xehanort (?), Marly and Larx could be said that it's because they don't remember their true selves, but I see no reason for Xemnas to not pull out No Name (aside from the obvious retcon, that is).

Either way, even if it was a situation where they kept the ability to use a Keyblade and just not remember it (even stretching that Xemnas was truly amnestesiatic during KH2 and was only when he was given a replica body that regained his memories), they sure felt a connection to it considering Marluxia's whole obsession with having a Keyblade.

The most logical conclusion to me is that Roxas was able to use Sora's Keyblade because he had a heart in him, then later on by the time Sora is zZz he already has grown his own heart and doesn't really need to rely on Ven's anymore, until the end of his story when he starts to Dual Wield.
 
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KeybladeLordSora

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I like to call Naminé a "Nobody In Name Only", due to the circumstances of her creation leaving her with pretty much nothing from both components.

She just barely resembles Kairi, and has nothing from Sora. No memories from either of them too.

She was essentially her own person from the get-go. Hell, she could've gone her merry way without merging with Kairi, but "you nobody, you not supposed to exist, you'll disappear" was beaten into her head to such a degree that she never considered herself a separate person and felt like she had no choice but to go back to Kairi.
 

Idreamaboutcats

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She was essentially her own person from the get-go. Hell, she could've gone her merry way without merging with Kairi, but "you nobody, you not supposed to exist, you'll disappear" was beaten into her head to such a degree that she never considered herself a separate person and felt like she had no choice but to go back to Kairi.

Technically not true. Remember, she blurs in and out of existence when she was in close proximity to Kairi when they were escaping. She literally wasn’t her own person back then. Good news is, she is now, having cultivated a heart of her own and inhabiting a life-sized doll.
 

KeybladeLordSora

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Technically not true. Remember, she blurs in and out of existence when she was in close proximity to Kairi when they were escaping. She literally wasn’t her own person back then. Good news is, she is now, having cultivated a heart of her own and inhabiting a life-sized doll.
I mean, she kinda was her own person back then by virtue of h e a r t but you make a good point.

This just makes me feel like Naminam got dealt a bad hand during CoM/KH2.

But now she happy and having fun on the beach with Xion and seashells
 

zander1995

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Marluxia, Larxene and Xemnas are all wielders and neither of them seem capable of using their Keyblades.

Marluxia and Larxene have no memories of their previous life as Keyblade Wielders, so probably can't remember how to summon their keyblades.

Xemnas on the other hand, I'm pretty sure it was confirmed he can summon a keyblade, but subconsciously keeps himself from doing so (probably part of Terra's influence on him).
 

Mexican Sora

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Namine is a nobody for convenience sake when she is in fact a completely different type of being that hasn't been explored in the series yet. She may very well be the opposite of what Darkness is.
 

The_Echo

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Eh, I'm not exactly sure about that, simply because we know know that the somebodies of Marluxia, Larxene and Xemnas are all wielders and neither of them seem capable of using their Keyblades. Xigbar seems to be because his was with Xehanort (?), Marly and Larx could be said that it's because they don't remember their true selves, but I see no reason for Xemnas to not pull out No Name (aside from the obvious retcon, that is).

Either way, even if it was a situation where they kept the ability to use a Keyblade and just not remember it (even stretching that Xemnas was truly amnestesiatic during KH2 and was only when he was given a replica body that regained his memories), they sure felt a connection to it considering Marluxia's whole obsession with having a Keyblade.

The most logical conclusion to me is that Roxas was able to use Sora's Keyblade because he had a heart in him, then later on by the time Sora is zZz he already has grown his own heart and doesn't really need to rely on Ven's anymore, until the end of his story when he starts to Dual Wield.
Roxas is Sora's Nobody, not Ven's.
The main difference between Roxas and the others is that his original heart, the heart of a Keyblade wielder, was purified and no longer a Heartless. That's why Roxas maintains access to Sora's Keyblade.
When he dual-wields, he's accessing Ven's Keyblade, a power he had to unlock at a later time (by killing Xion, I guess).
 

Noivern

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Roxas is Sora's Nobody, not Ven's.
The main difference between Roxas and the others is that his original heart, the heart of a Keyblade wielder, was purified and no longer a Heartless. That's why Roxas maintains access to Sora's Keyblade.
When he dual-wields, he's accessing Ven's Keyblade, a power he had to unlock at a later time (by killing Xion, I guess).
I know Roxas is Sora's nobody, I never said he was using Ven's Keyblade, either. I said that the fact that Roxas has a heart in his body might be the reason he can summon his somebody's Keyblade. As in you probably need two things to be able to summon one:

The Keyblade itself (be it by inheriting it from someone, getting your own (Riku, Lea, possibly Xion?), or having access to it from the get go by being a Nobody of a wielder (Roxas, probably Naminé?), and a Heart.

Again, I know that Marly and Larx having somebodies who happened to be Dandelions was most likely a retcon (while the basis for a backstory was always there, considering Marly's guardian), but I doubt them simply not remembering they had access is enough to justify them not being able to summon a Keyblade. Marluxia was so obsessed to having his own Keyblade pawn that I seriously cannot see him never trying to summon one himself, especially when we saw how casually Lea accidentally summons his in DDD: just the thought alone seems to be enough. lol
 

KeybladeLordSora

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Regarding this whole thing, I remembered a line from Riku in DDD.

"Darkness stole your heart, and the keyblade with it."

Essentially, Marly and Larx can't access their keyblades as Nobodies simply because they got turned into Nobodies.

Roxas got lucky thanks to Kairi purifying Sora's heart.
 

zander1995

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He said that to Ansem, who was a Heartless. And Heartless have always been confirmed to never be able to wield keyblades.
 

The_Echo

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He said that to Ansem, who was a Heartless. And Heartless have always been confirmed to never be able to wield keyblades.
Yes, and the Keyblade is tied to its wielder's heart. So if your heart is a Heartless, and your Heartless can't wield a Keyblade, then of course neither can your Nobody.
 

Idreamaboutcats

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Well, Naminé can't wield one at least, or wasn't shown to wield one, despite using Sora's body as an intermediary to exist and Kairi accidentally inheriting the ability to wield one. Other than that, she has powers on par with Roxas' and more, albeit at a non-combat capacity.
 

AdrianXXII

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Well, Naminé can't wield one at least, or wasn't shown to wield one, despite using Sora's body as an intermediary to exist and Kairi accidentally inheriting the ability to wield one. Other than that, she has powers on par with Roxas' and more, albeit at a non-combat capacity.
I assume Naminé not getting a Keyblade is partly because Kairi hadn't unlocked her ability to wield one yet. Had Kairi gained her Keyblade before Destiny Island fell I assume Naminé would have been a wielder as well.

One thing I've been curious about is the personality Naminé developed. Part of me wonders, if the root of her insecurities are echos of ones Kairi struggles with or if they're all consequences of her mistreatment since creation at the hands of the Organisation.
 

Idreamaboutcats

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I assume Naminé not getting a Keyblade is partly because Kairi hadn't unlocked her ability to wield one yet. Had Kairi gained her Keyblade before Destiny Island fell I assume Naminé would have been a wielder as well.

One thing I've been curious about is the personality Naminé developed. Part of me wonders, if the root of her insecurities are echos of ones Kairi struggles with or if they're all consequences of her mistreatment since creation at the hands of the Organisation.
Maybe…

Abuse, definitely the abuse. She doesn’t have Kairi’s memories due to her unusual birth, and I doubt princesses with pure light have insecurities.
 

*TwilightNight*

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I assume Naminé not getting a Keyblade is partly because Kairi hadn't unlocked her ability to wield one yet. Had Kairi gained her Keyblade before Destiny Island fell I assume Naminé would have been a wielder as well.

One thing I've been curious about is the personality Naminé developed. Part of me wonders, if the root of her insecurities are echos of ones Kairi struggles with or if they're all consequences of her mistreatment since creation at the hands of the Organisation.

It's the mistreatment. Naminè was literally born into slavery with no knowledge of anything except what she obtained from looking at Sora's memories. She spent her entire year of life tucked away in buildings.

It would have been nice to see how her first days were and how they discovered her.
 

Noivern

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I assume Naminé not getting a Keyblade is partly because Kairi hadn't unlocked her ability to wield one yet. Had Kairi gained her Keyblade before Destiny Island fell I assume Naminé would have been a wielder as well.

One thing I've been curious about is the personality Naminé developed. Part of me wonders, if the root of her insecurities are echos of ones Kairi struggles with or if they're all consequences of her mistreatment since creation at the hands of the Organisation.
I have no doubt whatsoever that Naminé is a wielder because everything that applies to Roxas being able to wield because of Sora also applies to her, regardless of how much of a Nobody she actually is.

I imagine that had the Organization know Kairi was a wielder before Riku got her the Keyblade, things would've been drastically different, lol.

(which brings the question of how did Riku even know she was a wielder in the first place?)
 

zander1995

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Yes, and the Keyblade is tied to its wielder's heart. So if your heart is a Heartless, and your Heartless can't wield a Keyblade, then of course neither can your Nobody.
Roxas was born without a heart, and he could use a keyblade, so that's not true.

Edit: https://www.khinsider.com/news/Birth-by-Sleep-Plot-Mysteries-Interview-1364

-- Roxas, the "Sora + Ventus" Nobody, was able to use a Keyblade. In contrast Xemnas, the "Terra + Master Xehanort" Nobody, wasn't able to use a Keyblade. Why is this?

Nomura: I'd rather that point remain a mystery. It's possible that he intentionally wasn't using one.
 
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AdrianXXII

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Maybe…

Abuse, definitely the abuse. She doesn’t have Kairi’s memories due to her unusual birth, and I doubt princesses with pure light have insecurities.
Well looking at the New Princess, there's tons of insecurities there.. With Kairi, her insecurities could be that she feels too weak to help and responsible for all that's happened to her friends, obviously she wasn't to blame, but she still might have blamed herself.

Also while Naminé doesn't have Kairi's memories, people in universe have noted that she has similarities in personality, which makes me think there's some influence between the two.

It's the mistreatment. Naminè was literally born into slavery with no knowledge of anything except what she obtained from looking at Sora's memories. She spent her entire year of life tucked away in buildings.

It would have been nice to see how her first days were and how they discovered her.

I imagine she was also in Zombie Mode for the first week or two like Roxas. I'm kind of curious as to how neglected she must have been to have such crippling loneliness after just ba month of existing.

I have no doubt whatsoever that Naminé is a wielder because everything that applies to Roxas being able to wield because of Sora also applies to her, regardless of how much of a Nobody she actually is.

I imagine that had the Organization know Kairi was a wielder before Riku got her the Keyblade, things would've been drastically different, lol.

(which brings the question of how did Riku even know she was a wielder in the first place?)
I'm not so sure about her being able to wield seeing the key difference between her and Roxas is that Sora already could summon his Keyblade while Kairi couldn't when they were created.

Also I don't think, her being a Keyblade wielder would change them trying to use her to manipulate Sora, with her memory powers, though she might have been treated better, seeing she'd be viewed as more valuable. Maybe Larxene and Marluxia would have tried to make her their pawn?

How Riku knew Kairi could wield and summon the keyblade for her is a mystery that I doubt we'll ever get answered.
 
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