The Birth By Sleep Critics Club: not as good as it could be.



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rokudamia2

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While it's gameplay was excellent was good the rest of the felt uninspired


Reasons

Aqua's story voice actor and character (rokudamia2)

Vanitas in general (rokudamia2)

X blade in general (rokudamia2)

Deus ex machina's (rokudamia2)

Reason for kairi getting a keyblade (rokudamia2)

Terra's voice actor (rokudamia2)

Unimportant Disney worlds (rokudamia2)

Lack of The character development (relix)

Pointless cameos (relix)

Lack of ff cameos (relix)

The Mirage Arena (smile)

Disney town (fantasy08)

The unversed (fantasy08)

The command board (fantasy08)


-Their friendship lacked depth and therefore felt forced.

-You are technically playing through the same worlds three times.

- Really cheesy dialogue

-Poor execution overall
(All from fantasy08)

Terra's stupidity (rokudamia2)

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relix
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Affiliates

The Terra Critics Club
http://forums.khinsider.com/fanclubs/160993-terra-critics-club-if-he-only-had-brain.html

The Vanitas hate club 2.0
http://forums.khinsider.com/fanclubs/161003-vanitas-hate-club-2-0-pointless-filler.html

The Aqua Critics Club

http://forums.khinsider.com/fanclubs/161012-aqua-critics-club-because-light-isnt-always-answer.html

The Ventus Critics Club.

http://forums.khinsider.com/fanclubs/161019-ventus-critics-club-because-theres-more-life-than-terra.html


Smile and I meant to do this months ago.
 
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Relix

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I personally didn't mind the VAing (Terra could have used some work though)

What got me was the concept of the X - Blade (wtf is this?), Kairi's reason for becoming a keyblade wielder (by accident? wtf?), Disney worlds' filler like feel, and the fact that I for some reason was expecting more out of the game. I expecting a level of epicness that I probably shouldn't have. And the idea the unversed are connected to Vanitas directly. Basically making it near impossible for them to reappear making them feel even more filler than the disney worlds.

The character development was also lacking a bit imo. Aqua didn't seem to show that she grew much throughout this entire ordeal. One can say Terra did in the end but you'd have to dig deeper to actually see that because at face value it's not so apparent. Ven was just boring.

The pointless involvement of Ansem's apprentices. What. The. Fluff. Instead of showing our FF cameos they give us screen time of boring characters like Dilan and Aleaus. We didn't need to see them guarding the castle for 2 whole minutes just so Ansem can call them back in the castle to chat. What? There's only two guards for this gaint ass castle? There aren't any windows people can jump through? I guess Even and Ienzo weren't so bad but really? No FF cameos...for these guys? Come on now. Come on.
 

destinykh

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Oh I love you so much. Gettin' tired of hearing BBS being hyped up. I by no means hate BBS with a fiery passion like I do KH2, but the fanclub name is totally spot on: Not as good as it could be. Joinage!

Aqua didn't seem to show that she grew much throughout this entire ordeal. One can say Terra did in the end but you'd have to dig deeper to actually see that because at face value it's not so apparent.
Like Smile said, and I agree with her, BBS is the game where Aqua is not supposed to grow much. This is the game where her mistakes, along with the other characters', drag the universe down with them. Her redemption would hopefully come in BBS vol.2. So by that viewpoint, I have come to really appreciate her as a character, although the inconsistencies in her attitudes towards Terra and Ven bug me a lot.

If you actually put Terra's storyline down on paper, it sounds a lot more epic than what is actually portrayed in the games. >.> But I do like Terra's story a lot.

No FF cameos...for these guys? Come on now. Come on.
I get there being no FF cameos, since Nomura said it might have detracted from the main story. It's not so much the apprentices being cameos that bug me so much as how CONTRIVED their appearances are sans Braig. Really? Only Ven meets all the apprentices in one go? Just because he looks like Roxas? Pure Organization fanservice right there with no effort to naturally integrate them into the story.
 

Relix

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Like Smile said, and I agree with her, BBS is the game where Aqua is not supposed to grow much. This is the game where her mistakes, along with the other characters', drag the universe down with them. Her redemption would hopefully come in BBS vol.2. So by that viewpoint, I have come to really appreciate her as a character, although the inconsistencies in her attitudes towards Terra and Ven bug me a lot.
Don't get me wrong. I also love Aqua, but I'm starting to realize I like her for her potential. She's in a similar boat like Riku was pre-Reverse/Rebirth. the redemption and depth to her character on the horizon. But it still didn't excuse a lot of things about her in BBS that were sort of...irritating. She's still my favorite KH gal tho.

If you actually put Terra's storyline down on paper, it sounds a lot more epic than what is actually portrayed in the games. >.> But I do like Terra's story a lot.
I know it sounds so epic and awesome but it wasn't portrayed that way which also got under my skin. BBS had the potential to be KH's best game.

I get there being no FF cameos, since Nomura said it might have detracted from the main story. It's not so much the apprentices being cameos that bug me so much as how CONTRIVED their appearances are sans Braig. Really? Only Ven meets all the apprentices in one go? Just because he looks like Roxas? Pure Organization fanservice right there with no effort to naturally integrate them into the story.
He said that there would have been to many plotlines/subplots going on. I would have prefered cameos for the FF characters than the cameos for the apprentices cuz that's all it was, cameos. Fanservice. They did nothing for the plot. The FF could have done a better job just being there. The apprentices who had no relevance and cameos in Ven's story only was just plan stupid. Going by the "Ven = Roxas logic" Terra should have at least met some of them as well. Even or Ienzo, maybe even Isa to build some sort of connection but not a thing. They were pointless fanservice that ruined Radiant Garden's visit for me to be honest.
 

Smile

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I see a co-owner spot that's waiting to have my name slapped on it.

dest said:
I have come to really appreciate her as a character, although the inconsistencies in her attitudes towards Terra and Ven bug me a lot.
More or less this to me. I like how she's supposed to be what breaks the trio apart and how much basically her scenario's concept as a whole is how her views and actions are wrong, despite her best intentions.
If I had to sup up Aqua's character with a couple of words, it'd probably be "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". She went about it in all the wrong ways, thus pushing Terra deeper into Darkness, got him to stop believing in basically everyone but the bad guy, and left Ven on his own when a second prior she saw exactly why she shouldn't let him out of her sight.
For someone who cares, she's certainly quite the idiot. Let us hope BBSv2 will be more than just her going "OH NOES THE DARKNESS". And if not in BBSv2, then when she finally meets up with Terra and Ven.

Relix said:
The apprentices who had no relevance and cameos in Ven's story only was just plan stupid. Going by the "Ven = Roxas logic" Terra should have at least met some of them as well. Even or Ienzo, maybe even Isa to build some sort of connection but not a thing. They were pointless fanservice that ruined Radiant Garden's visit for me to be honest.
Terra did meet the one Organization member that mattered, though, being Braig. There was no point in him meeting anyone else.
I think the much grater problem the Radiant Garden visit pointed towards is a lot more Aqua and Ven's lacking their own plots. Let's face it, even if it's meeting Maleficent and Hook, Terra already got a lot more insight and plot development than Aqua and Ven could hope for, and it all tied together nicely because MX basically haunted him throughout the entire game, with Braig helping out in Radiant Garden.
Ven was a complete Plot Device we were supposed to care for but they bouched it in a similar manner to what they did with Roxas in Days and KH2 but not quite as badly, and Aqua was one huge Deus Ex Machina. It's saying something if Ven's plot-device had to work overtime to give Aqua a pretense of a plot. I'm talking of course about Vanitas.
That left both their scenarios severely lacking, however, with the only scenario where the playable protagonist actually was an active force in his own story, if only for the futile inner-struggle, was Terra :V
 

Theart

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Heck I'll join.

BBS is my personal favorite KH game, but even I had some problems with it (*glares at Kairi's excuse for being able to wield a keyblade*)
 

Smile

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I think I'm one of the people who actually don't mind Kairi's reason for becoming a Wielder quite all that much.
I mean yes, it was pathetic and ridiculous. I certainly hoped that becoming a Wielder and receiving the innate ability to use something as magical, all-powerful and legendary as the Keyblade would require a bit more than a toddler running in fright and half falling on a Master's Keyblade.
But when you look at what Terra did with Riku (...*bursts laughing and leaves the phrasing like that*) and then at what Aqua did with Kairi, you know, even without having played the following games, that something'll happen to Riku in regards to his Wielding. Both because they made a whole scene of just how Terra Wielderfied him, and also because of the promise they made of meeting together thanks to Riku getting his own Keyblade and becoming able to use it.
Kairi's scene with Aqua focused around the Light in Kairi's Heart and how Aqua'll send her someplace safe, which ties in with Blank Points and Kairi not coming.

tl;dr Riku became someone who'll get a Keyblade while Kairi got an explanation to why she could use Destiny's Embrace in KH2. They set it up so that even if they'll do nothing with Kairi's Wielder status - at least in the Xehanort saga - it's not like they set too many expectations up (though I still say that if Riku was Master level, they could've just done the Rite of Succession ritual right there and then, but that depends on how strong they want to make Riku at that time).
 

Theart

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Meh. I liked most of the scene with Kairi and Aqua, but my issue was singularly focused on HOW she can wield (seriously, how many of the fans who DON'T look up the Ultimanias online are going to be able to figure out that just because Kairi touched Aqua's keyblade, Kairi was capable of wielding?!)

The other issues I had with the game was just how OBVIOUS they made it that MX was evil. I mean, yeah, he looked evil in the KH2 Secret Endings, and has the friggin' name XEHANORT, but I was hoping he'd be a bit more convincing to both TAV AND the players that he was still a good guy. That would've REALLY made me like Terra a heck of a lot more. I mean, I love the guy to death, but I wanna smack him so hard at his apparent naiveness in the game. And while I can understand where Terra's coming from in the game, the whole thing with us the players getting to see how evil MX really is from the get-go, REALLY just makes Terra look like he should be wearing a dunce cap...
 

Smile

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Meh. I liked most of the scene with Kairi and Aqua, but my issue was singularly focused on HOW she can wield (seriously, how many of the fans who DON'T look up the Ultimanias online are going to be able to figure out that just because Kairi touched Aqua's keyblade, Kairi was capable of wielding?!)
This is actually the sort of thing that makes me giggle lightly and be thankful I can piece things together even without the Ultimania and that my "over-thinking things" is partially to be expected. I mean, Riku became a Keyblade Wielder because Terra let him hold his Keyblade, and Kairi touched Aqua's Keyblade. While debatable due to intent, it's not impossible to piece it together, along with Kairi's usage of Destiny's Embrace in KH2. It just requires a tiny bit of thought, something a large part of the fandom seems unwilling to do either because they mock the series as a children's story (and then whine it's too complicated...) or because they rely solely on the Ultimanias.
I mean, this isn't something like Mickey being the voice in Sora's KH1 Destati which does indeed take a LOT of thought, the first FINAL MIX and freaking RE:CODED to try and get even a lead on without the first Ultimania saying it's Mickey - this is actually strung together quite nicely.

My overall beef with this is, again, how sickeningly easy it is to become a Wielder (even if you don't get chosen by a Keyblade instantly, as far as we know), and how once again Kairi's character feels so pathetic, shoved into the plot without any true justification. As random as people say Sora's Heart coming into contact with Ven's is, I prefer it leaps and bounds better than what happened here. Sora at the very core of his being a Light-filled being, one that reaches out to anyone and everyone, and MX, being from DI originally, had a good reason to bring the comatose Ven to where Sora was.
Kairi could've just as easily touched Aqua's sash or hand and not her Keyblade.
And Nomura could've just as easily made the whole Succession business only be activated through the Master's own will. Like how Terra wanted Riku to become a Wielder, Aqua'd have had to want Kairi to become a Wielder and then do that tiny poetic ritual thingie. Not just have complete and utter strangers bump into her on the street.
I suppose that's why the Keyblade can fade away, otherwise we'd have like tons and tons of Wielders, even if they're Keybladeless...

The other issues I had with the game was just how OBVIOUS they made it that MX was evil. I mean, yeah, he looked evil in the KH2 Secret Endings, and has the friggin' name XEHANORT, but I was hoping he'd be a bit more convincing to both TAV AND the players that he was still a good guy.
I want to say that they tried in Terra's scenario, but they did have that scene with Vanitas right at the get-go. I think they should've put that scene only in Ven's scenario which you were supposed to play after Terra's, and then introduce Vanitas in a different way in Terra's scenario :V

That would've REALLY made me like Terra a heck of a lot more. I mean, I love the guy to death, but I wanna smack him so hard at his apparent naiveness in the game. And while I can understand where Terra's coming from in the game, the whole thing with us the players getting to see how evil MX really is from the get-go, REALLY just makes Terra look like he should be wearing a dunce cap...
I actually really disagree with this. You say this being the all-knowing viewer, the player. So you're aware of the scene I just mentioned with Vanitas.
Terra didn't know about that. What he knew was that Xemnas was to Eraqus what he and Aqua were to each other, and what Ven became to them. Terra's own father figure was as close to MX as a brother. MX seemed 'kind' enough to bring Ven to the Land of Departure to recover, and was then invited by Eraqus himself to watch over Terra and Aqua's MoM exam.
Then he disappeared and by the time Terra found him again, the man seemed to be helping him again by explaining about the Unversed and give Terra further leads about Vanitas.
I'm not getting into the whole emotional manipulation here, only the course of events. Terra truly had no reason to doubt MX until quite late into the game.
It's the same thing with Hook and almost every other villain Terra ran into in the game. WE know they're villains but Terra didn't. He had no reason to distrust them (even if Maleficent LOOKED shady, we're talking another world here. For all Terra knew that was how they ALL dressed...). And the person who did indeed ask him to so something evil being the Evil Queen in the Dwarf Woodlands, Terra pwned her, saying he never intended to go along with her request and was basically looking for leads about MX.
So really, I honestly don't know where all this Terra hate comes from :V
 

Theart

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This is actually the sort of thing that makes me giggle lightly and be thankful I can piece things together even without the Ultimania and that my "over-thinkingI want to say that they tried in Terra's scenario, but they did have that scene with Vanitas right at the get-go. I think they should've put that scene only in Ven's scenario which you were supposed to play after Terra's, and then introduce Vanitas in a different way in Terra's scenario :V
Personally, I'd have had it that we'd see Vanitas sitting high up in a corner watching the MoM Exam by himself and then vanishing into a RoD. Then we see him in Ven's Scenario at Ven's Room.

And I'd REALLY have preferred to have actually have some sort of interaction between Terra and Vanitas through out his scenario, to take away more suspicion on MX, and really make it look like Vanitas is working on his own.

I actually really disagree with this. You say this being the all-knowing viewer, the player. So you're aware of the scene I just mentioned with Vanitas.
Terra didn't know about that. What he knew was that Xemnas was to Eraqus what he and Aqua were to each other, and what Ven became to them. Terra's own father figure was as close to MX as a brother. MX seemed 'kind' enough to bring Ven to the Land of Departure to recover, and was then invited by Eraqus himself to watch over Terra and Aqua's MoM exam.
Then he disappeared and by the time Terra found him again, the man seemed to be helping him again by explaining about the Unversed and give Terra further leads about Vanitas.
I'm not getting into the whole emotional manipulation here, only the course of events. Terra truly had no reason to doubt MX until quite late into the game.
It's the same thing with Hook and almost every other villain Terra ran into in the game. WE know they're villains but Terra didn't. He had no reason to distrust them (even if Maleficent LOOKED shady, we're talking another world here. For all Terra knew that was how they ALL dressed...). And the person who did indeed ask him to so something evil being the Evil Queen in the Dwarf Woodlands, Terra pwned her, saying he never intended to go along with her request and was basically looking for leads about MX.
So really, I honestly don't know where all this Terra hate comes from :V
The bolded is exactly my point, Smile. Terra ISN'T a dunce, but because of the fact that we the players all knew the truth, it portrayed Terra in a negative light. :c
 

Smile

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Personally, I'd have had it that we'd see Vanitas sitting high up in a corner watching the MoM Exam by himself and then vanishing into a RoD. Then we see him in Ven's Scenario at Ven's Room.
True, that would've been one hell of a sweet scene instead of ruining it already at the start of Terra's scenario. Ruined most of the suspense, imo, and made me laugh at Nomura's quote where he questioned if MX was really evil, a while after the FM+ secret ending was out.

And I'd REALLY have preferred to have actually have some sort of interaction between Terra and Vanitas through out his scenario, to take away more suspicion on MX, and really make it look like Vanitas is working on his own.
Yeah, that's something that really irked me about Vanitas. Dude, you're supposed to have nothing holding you back, why the hell are you his lap dog?
But then I remember Riku's whole character concept, realize that maybe Vanitas isn't SUPPOSED to be this wild, insane maniac when he doesn't really need to be (or rather he just doesn't care, he doesn't seek it intentionally) and then I become less frustrated with the execution and more annoyed with Vanitas's whole character concept.

The bolded is exactly my point, Smile. Terra ISN'T a dunce, but because of the fact that we the players all knew the truth, it portrayed Terra in a negative light. :c
Meh. When I play, I usually don't set such borders so for me, I didn't mind it all that much.
 

Theart

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True, that would've been one hell of a sweet scene instead of ruining it already at the start of Terra's scenario. Ruined most of the suspense, imo, and made me laugh at Nomura's quote where he questioned if MX was really evil, a while after the FM+ secret ending was out.
I actually had a crack theory back when I first joined that MX really was a good guy and that he just ended up making a huge mistake that ended up making Terra becoming Apprentice Xehanort, and MX died in combat against Apprentice Xehanort.

Yeah, that's something that really irked me about Vanitas. Dude, you're supposed to have nothing holding you back, why the hell are you his lap dog?
But then I remember Riku's whole character concept, realize that maybe Vanitas isn't SUPPOSED to be this wild, insane maniac when he doesn't really need to be (or rather he just doesn't care, he doesn't seek it intentionally) and then I become less frustrated with the execution and more annoyed with Vanitas's whole character concept.
Nah, I blame execution on Vanitas. He's one of my favorite characters in general, but I do admit he could've been approached so much better.

Meh. When I play, I usually don't set such borders so for me, I didn't mind it all that much.
Normally, neither do I. But I'll be honest and say my forehead got incredibly sore after a lot of facepalms while playing through Terra's Scenario. xD Nothing against him as a character, but I REALLY knowing what Terra didn't know. :x
 

Smile

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Nah, I blame execution on Vanitas. He's one of my favorite characters in general, but I do admit he could've been approached so much better.
I'll be blunt - I really don't get how anyone can like him as a character. He got no insight, no development, barely any introduction. :V All he had going for him was his concept.
 

Theart

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I'll be blunt - I really don't get how anyone can like him as a character. He got no insight, no development, barely any introduction. :V All he had going for him was his concept.
Simple; his charisma. ;) That really was what got me hooked. xD
 

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Aqua's story voice actor and character (rokudamia2)
I don't see what's wrong with her character, and her VA's fine.

But my problem with BBS was the final world. The keyblade graveyard could'e had so much potential, but instead we got to explore 3 areas and only ONE of them had battles. I know there was limited disk space, but come on, that world could've been so much better!

I'd like to join as a tentative member.
 
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