The Apprentice, Ven and Kairi

[*~NeoAdamus~*]

Enough. We're getting off topic here.



Edit:



I am no longer debating things that have no proof so I will only address the things that actually are credible. If you can show me a quote stating there are no Heartless in Birth By Sleep (though this is impossible since the new enemies we face are ancestors of the Heartless) then I'll be happy to discuss this with you.

Xehanort's Heartless was just that, a heartless. He resided in darkness because he was darkness. The reason his eye color is orange is because his original body, Xehanort, had orange eyes to begin with. They adopt physical traits of the offspring they came from so it's pointless to post information regarding how long he's been in darkness. More than likely Xehanort and Master Xehanort are one in the same so referring to him as Xehanort is just a "nickname" of sorts.

Nomura:The new enemy is not a Heartless, or a Nobody. Because the story takes place before even they appear. I can give out more information little by little as time passes, an example being like the Shadow enemies that are heartless, and the Dusk enemies that are nobodies.

Famitsu Interview - September 2007 - Kingdom Hearts Insider
Go down to BBS and it should be the second to the last interview on the enemies being confirmed not heartless nor nobody

 

[Hero2]

Famitsu Interview - September 2007 - Kingdom Hearts Insider
Go down to BBS and it should be the second to the last interview on the enemies being confirmed not heartless nor nobody

Thanks, now it can be efficiently debated.

My thoughts on this are that Nomura has been known to post information at times that can be misleading. If they are not heartless then this is yet another plot hole in the Kingdom Hearts series. If they are ancestors of the Heartless then they must be some branch of Heartless, it'd be a different story if they were descendants but since they are direct ancestors it doesn't make much sense that they wouldn't be the same race as their descendants after them :bored:.

To the picture, that is not accurate because that is a "generic" character face compared to the "cutscene" character face that Xehanort's heartless has. An example would be that Sora's eye color is dark blue when generic but in cut scenes they appear light blue.

 

[*~NeoAdamus~*]

Thanks, now it can be efficiently debated.

My thoughts on this are that Nomura has been known to post information at times that can be misleading. If they are not heartless then this is yet another plot hole in the Kingdom Hearts series. If they are ancestors of the Heartless then they must be some branch of Heartless, it'd be a different story if they were descendants but since they are direct ancestors it doesn't make much sense that they wouldn't be the same race as their descendants after them :bored:.

To the picture, that is not accurate because that is a "generic" character face compared to the "cutscene" character face that Xehanort's heartless has. An example would be that Sora's eye color is dark blue when generic but in cut scenes they appear light blue.

it's not a plot hole. They are ancestors through darkness but they aren't the same creature, just like nobodies arent the same as heartless but they are related.

It is a character render of Xehanort, compared with a scene of Xehanorts heartless and almost everyone here knows that in the first KH his eyes where clearly and vibrantly orange. The character render shows that the original Xehanorts eyes are brown, and that there is proof enough.

 

[Hero2]

it's not a plot hole. They are ancestors through darkness but they aren't the same creature, just like nobodies arent the same as heartless but they are related.

It is a character render of Xehanort, compared with a scene of Xehanorts heartless and almost everyone here knows that in the first KH his eyes where clearly and vibrantly orange. The character render shows that the original Xehanorts eyes are brown, and that there is proof enough.

(I'll respond to this later, right now I'm kind of tired and need to get some sleep so I'm leaving this post open so I can edit it later....)

 

[kurokitsunefang]

Where at? Do you have proof? I know Nomura said Namine wasn't XIV...

ok ok then i got my facts jumbled

 

[Genocide]

PMF, I'm not arguing with you any further.

You don't have to debate me. You theory is trash. I only came in here to mess with you because I was bored.

It's not Dark Firaga. Dark Firaga is an attack that shoots a dark fireball at you. When you fight Riku for the last time he summons an orb that makes his entire body glow, this in turn boasts his abilities. If you insist in believing in your fantasies of believing it's Dark Firaga then let that be your problem. Don't waste my time when there's no evidence to back up your claims.

Whatever you say.

Where is your source of Heartless not being in Birth by Sleep besides the fact that the new enemies we fight are ancestors which would already make them a branch-off of Heartless?

Nomura interview.

Then you say that the orange eyes are results of being in the darkness but this (again) is destroyed by the fact that Riku was in darkness longer than almost anyone and did not have orange eyes after it. You post things off as fact based off of your misreadings.

OR I based it off a Nomura interview. Kid, stop. Because you're really making yourself look bumb. I actually find this enjoyable; taking advantage of youe stupidity. And you prpbably don't want that.

Reminds me of another member who was "always right"...:

Kay El

If that's your attitude towards things then you won't get far in life. Regardless of how "right" people have been in the past that gives no reason why whatever they say is true. He has already been proven wrong by me which already destroys your near-fanboyism of him. Don't try to promote your superiority theory on me because you'll do nothing but waste your time and show how weak-minded you are. Don't talk to me any further because that one post already destroyed what little respect I had for you.

At least Kay-El gave respect, but you. You're scum. And proven wrong? Kid you couldn't beat your meat out of a paper bad quick enough to make it to the arena with me.

And read the Secret Ansem Reports. It proves your little thrash theory wrong. Wipe the nut from your mouth, I'm done with you.

 

[Organization_42]

There is a few reasons why Terra cannot be Master Xehanort, despite the similar facial structure:

There is no explanation for why his hair would turn white suddenly after only a few years. If his hair turned white that quickly he would have had to be at least in his late-fourty or fifties. Then, if that's not enough to stroke the fire Terra, as far as we seen has no reason to become the Xehanort we've seen. The entire idea of Xehanort being Terra is when Aqua's armor was referred as an "old friend". This would create a great contradiction that would destroy the series because as we were told his memory was destroyed, therefore he would not remember Aqua and if he did he would have no practical reason to create Organization XIII. Edit: Also if he remembered Aqua would he not also confuse Roxas for Ven?

Actually, the main theory going right now is that Terra and MX make up the Xehanort we know.

Terra had plenty of reason to become that Xehanort. The man that Ansem found had lost his memories, and "Xehanort" was the only name he could remember. The Terra that Sora fights in the secret boss battle of Final Mix+ says that he has nothing left but hatred for Xehanort. Perhaps that hatred was so intense that he held on to the name even though he couldn't remember how he knew it.

Anyway, my point is that by losing his memories, Terra is essentially no longer the same person he once was. Look at Sora and Roxas. If you didn't know who they were or that they were both Keyblade masters, and you looked at them solely based on their personalities, would you think they were the same person? No, because Sora is a happy-go-lucky kind of guy who makes friends with everyone he meets, whereas Roxas is often melancholy and withdrawn. One of the reasons why Sora is so different from his Nobody is because Roxas didn't have Sora's memories, he only went by his experiences in Organization XIII.

Same goes for Terra. He can't determine his actions based off of his past if he can't remember it. Actually, according to the first Secret Ansem Reports, Xehanort's loss of memory was one of the primary reasons for wanting to do the tests; he was hoping to regain what he had lost. But the tests backfired and he grew attracted to the darkness.

As for hair color, Terra looked like he was all set to go after MX when he was headed for Kingdom Hearts. The change in hair color might have resulted from the battle or from coming into close contact with KH.

With Aqua's armor, I was thinking that while he might not remember who it belonged to, he felt connected to it, and that intrigued him. So he would often visit the armor in the hopes that it would help him regain his memories. And he may have felt a connection around Roxas, but he couldn't think of what it could be.

My thoughts on this are that Nomura has been known to post information at times that can be misleading. If they are not heartless then this is yet another plot hole in the Kingdom Hearts series. If they are ancestors of the Heartless then they must be some branch of Heartless, it'd be a different story if they were descendants but since they are direct ancestors it doesn't make much sense that they wouldn't be the same race as their descendants after them :bored:.

I'm pretty sure that when Nomura says that the enemies aren't Heartless or Nobodies, he really means that they aren't Heartless or Nobodies. Like when he said the 14th member isn't Namine. He's just flat out telling us because it's not spoilerific and we won't waste our time on such theories.

Darwin said we were descendants of apes. Does that make apes a type of human? No. Even if these creature are direct ancestors of Heartless, that does not make them the same creature. If anything, it makes the Heartless a branch of the new enemy.

To the picture, that is not accurate because that is a "generic" character face compared to the "cutscene" character face that Xehanort's heartless has. An example would be that Sora's eye color is dark blue when generic but in cut scenes they appear light blue.

The shade of Sora's eyes might change, but his eyes are still blue. Whereas Xehanort and his Heartless' eyes are two completely different colors.