Summoning Kingdom Hearts?



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ImpZ

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Okay, so here is my question. I wrote an a long block of text, and thought bleh I need to find a way to make this shorter, no one is going to read this. So apologies if I run on, Kingdom Hearts has been one of my fav series growing up, Kingdom Hearts 3 is like an ending to my childhood officially, so I can talk and talk and talk about KH and never get bored.

If this was already asked, I supremely apologize, I have been trying to figure this out since I first played BBS two or three years ago, and I haven't found the answer as of yet.

Anyways, let me try and ask this in a short as possible way. This is assuming you have beaten Birth by Sleep. Beating Dream Drop Distance as well severely helps believe it or not.

How did Master Xehanort summon Kingdom Hearts in the Keyblade Graveyard?

Now, my understanding is this. Xehanort wanted to forge the X-blade from Ventus and Vanitas, since it has the unique power to directly summon Kingdom Hearts, owing to the fact it is the, lack for a better word, divine counterpart to Kingdom Hearts.

Now, if you watch the cutscene, Master Xehanort summons Kingdom Hearts waaaaaay before Ventus and Vanitas fuse, and in the end it only managed to create a partial incomplete X-blade anyways.

Now, I understand why Xehanort summoned it, or at least, I think I do. From what I have read and gathered, Master Xehanort needed it to body hop into Terra. Why do I think that?

Spoiler Spoiler Show


Now I could be wrong, I read this originally on a wiki. I know that spoiler happens, but I don't know for sure if Xehanort needed it there for that reason. If not, there was no point to even summon the blasted thing.

Now, from the Director's Secret Report XIII;

"I - Until now in the Kingdom Hearts (hereafter KH) Series, there have been 2 types of "Kingdom Hearts" referring to the Heart of Worlds and the Heart of Men, could you explain the mechanics of this?

Think of the basic setting of KH as "All life has a heart". The heart of a world can be considered the things of nature; for example, the trees in a forest, a sea or river, a flower and so forth. When they all come together to form a world a large heart will come into existence. And concerning the hearts designated to men, all the hearts of humans and animals living in the world are integrated. As for Kingdom Hearts, think of it as if the heart is essentially the culmination of an invisible "Proof of Life""

Now, many people, including me, assume the yellow/white Kingdom Hearts in KH 2 is the Heart of Men, and the Heart of Worlds is the one in BBS. At least this is the general consensus I hear, and if in fact it isn't I would appreciate to have that clarified. I remember hearing Nomura said in an Ultimatum from Japan that was in fact true, and the true Kingdom Hearts has not yet been shown in game, only its blinding light killing Ansem SoD. But that could be wrong, I don't read Japanese. So again if I am wrong on that clarification would be appreciated.

Now, how did Xehanort do it. It took Xemnas upwards a year or more to compile and make his Kingdom Hearts.

Master Xehanort waved his hand and made it instantly appear. If it was that easy why didn't Xemnas do the same thing, it would sure have saved a lot of time. Why change its construction later on from what it was made up of? And if the reason I stated above was not why Xehanort needed Kingdom Hearts, why even summon it, except to look cool and badass?

Now, I do understand, Xemnas may have forgotten this technique over the course of everything that happened. But even assuming that, it still leaves the question of how MX summoned it in the first place.

I dunno, can anyone offer some insight on this? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. I have a feeling I missed something obvious.

-Die hard KH fan that cares far too much about the storyline
 
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Ruran

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Okay, so here is my question. I wrote an a long block of text, and thought bleh I need to find a way to make this shorter, no one is going to read this. So apologies if I run on, Kingdom Hearts has been one of my fav series growing up, Kingdom Hearts 3 is like an ending to my childhood officially, so I can talk and talk and talk about KH and never get bored.

If this was already asked, I supremely apologize, I have been trying to figure this out since I first played BBS two or three years ago, and I haven't found the answer as of yet.

Anyways, let me try and ask this in a short as possible way. This is assuming you have beaten Birth by Sleep. Beating Dream Drop Distance as well severely helps believe it or not.

How did Master Xehanort summon Kingdom Hearts in the Keyblade Graveyard?

Now, my understanding is this. Xehanort wanted to forge the X-blade from Ventus and Vanitas, since it has the unique power to directly summon Kingdom Hearts, owing to the fact it is the, lack for a better word, divine counterpart to Kingdom Hearts.

Now, if you watch the cutscene, Master Xehanort summons Kingdom Hearts waaaaaay before Ventus and Vanitas fuse, and in the end it only managed to create a partial incomplete X-blade anyways.
We're not given a straight answer as to why KH is there already, but I don't think MX summoned it himself. Personally, I chalk it up to KH just beginning to emerge because it could sense the X-Blade was near and MX merely parted the clouds to reveal it.

Now, I understand why Xehanort summoned it, or at least, I think I do. From what I have read and gathered, Master Xehanort needed it to body hop into Terra. Why do I think that?

Spoiler Spoiler Show


Now I could be wrong, I read this originally on a wiki. I know that spoiler happens, but I don't know for sure if Xehanort needed it there for that reason. If not, there was no point to even summon the blasted thing.
Yeah, I wouldn't trust the wiki, they tend not be reliable, especially with KH since so many details can be confusing, and old information isn't edited often. KH's presence isn't necessary to body hop, whole hearts and fragments of hearts have entered other person's bodies without it there before. Using KH to fill all the vessels with MX's fragments is probably just easier because I assume with KH in Xehanort's control he can do it to multiple people at a time. It seems that normally he can only do it to one person at a time.

Now, from the Director's Secret Report XIII;

"I - Until now in the Kingdom Hearts (hereafter KH) Series, there have been 2 types of "Kingdom Hearts" referring to the Heart of Worlds and the Heart of Men, could you explain the mechanics of this?

Think of the basic setting of KH as "All life has a heart". The heart of a world can be considered the things of nature; for example, the trees in a forest, a sea or river, a flower and so forth. When they all come together to form a world a large heart will come into existence. And concerning the hearts designated to men, all the hearts of humans and animals living in the world are integrated. As for Kingdom Hearts, think of it as if the heart is essentially the culmination of an invisible "Proof of Life""

Now, many people, including me, assume the yellow/white Kingdom Hearts in KH 2 is the Heart of Men, and the Heart of Worlds is the one in BBS. At least this is the general consensus I hear, and if in fact it isn't I would appreciate to have that clarified. I remember hearing Nomura said in an Ultimatum from Japan that was in fact true, and the true Kingdom Hearts has not yet been shown in game, only its blinding light killing Ansem SoD. But that could be wrong, I don't read Japanese. So again if I am wrong on that clarification would be appreciated.

-Die hard KH fan that cares far too much about the storyline
The KH in KH2 is The Heart of Men while The Heart of Worlds was present, but unseen in KH1. When Ansem soD opens the Door to Darkness, that's what that light is, THoW. The KH in BbS, as I recall, is the real one, just not fully summoned.
 

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Yeahhhhh never trust the KH wiki, never. Just as Ruran said it tends to wrong more than right which one can see by comparing the wiki to Nomura interviews or reports stated in the games themselves.

The wiki just isn't reliable with this series.

The KH in KH2 is The Heart of Men while The Heart of Worlds was present, but unseen in KH1
Actually:



We do see some of the KH1 kingdom hearts behind the DTD.

Now, many people, including me, assume the yellow/white Kingdom Hearts in KH 2 is the Heart of Men, and the Heart of Worlds is the one in BBS
Which was which was actually confirmed in DDD's glossary:
Kingdom Hearts

According to legend, the source of all true light is known as "Kingdom Hearts."

We know Xehanort has created two Kingdom Hearts now, both artificially, by amassing enough hearts. One was made from the hearts of worlds, and the other from the hearts of people.

The Kingdom Hearts made from the hearts of worlds had a door that led to the realm of darkness; its depths were never fully charted.

The Kingdom Hearts made from the hearts of people was believed to have the power to recomplete someone whose heart had been lost.
It's the KH1 kingdom hearts stated to be the heart of worlds as it's made by stealing the hearts from worlds like the KH2 kingdom hearts is made from taking the hearts of men.

The KH in BBS however is never touched upon. To be perfectly honest we don't even know if Xehanort summoned that kingdom hearts, the clouds formed, Xehanort parts them, the KH is there.

That scene can just be just as easily taken to mean MX merely parted the clouds to reveal KH already there.
-Die hard KH fan that cares far too much about the storyline
lol Your not alone *points to sig* my obsession is just pitiful.
 

ImpZ

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I had been wondering if that was the case, that is to say, when Ventus and Vanitas were near each other, with hearts of equal strength more or less, Kingdom Hearts would be emerge, or at least partially emerge.

And on Kingdom Hearts making it easier for body hopping, I agree, I randomly read that one time and wanted clarification on it since I never remember that was said in the games, so I knew it had to be either BS or something Nomura once said.

But hey, it was like I said. I have a feeling I missed something obvious. In this, I think I read too much into MX summoning it, and not thinking hey, he could just be moving clouds.

And here is an edit since I posted too fast and missed another post.

Yes, everything you said does make sense. I guess they just assumed we would assume it was partially forming due to Vanitas and Ventus being near each other like that or something.

Yeah, none of my friends really care for KH, so I have no one to talk to about any of this stuff, even though it is basically my favorite game series since an old childhood friend of mine showed me the game way back. Fell in love with it pretty fast and been following ever sense. Since it is so integrated into my childhood like that, I just like having continuity I guess, even if it seems kinda silly.
 

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I've seen the theory before. Some, in attempts to make sense of BBS's end, proposed that Ventus' and Vanitas getting ready to clash cause KH to sense it's counterpart forming or such.

The kh and body hopping bit was pointed out by Xigbar in DDD actually. When he and Xemnas are telling Sora the truth behind everything.

lol Then this is the right place, many to talk with about kh here. I'm always up for a good theory convo. o3o
 

ImpZ

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If I can help it I wanna lurk around and post here, I have been out of KH for too long.


I randomly read that body hopping thing and needing Kingdom Hearts, I brought up here knowing full well it could be BS, since I have seen crap that wasn't true as well. I still hear people say No Heart is one of the 13 vessels of Xehanort, even though it was a random optional battle....

I had thought about that body hopping requiring KH theory, and it sorta made sense.

Like, almost every time a heart or heart fragment was put into another person unwillfully, Kingdom Hearts was overhead. When it was a willful thing done, like Sora and Kairi or Sora and Ventus, not the case. I thought it was weird.

I mean arguably it wasn't willful for MX to rip out the hearts of Ven and Ansem's apprentices, but removing hearts seems different then placing and fusing hearts. I dunno, I was reading too much into it with extreme circumstantial evidence lol.
 

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If I can help it I wanna lurk around and post here, I have been out of KH for too long.


I randomly read that body hopping thing and needing Kingdom Hearts, I brought up here knowing full well it could be BS, since I have seen crap that wasn't true as well. I still hear people say No Heart is one of the 13 vessels of Xehanort, even though it was a random optional battle....
Whatever floats your boat but talking is more fun than lurking. ;3
If you need a refresher give the link in my sig a go.

Welp be at ease because the KH+vessel bit is indeed true. Xigbar points it out rather bluntly lol: dat scene in question
Xigbar said:
Xemnas and Xehanort formed the Organization for a specific reason. Round up a bunch of empty husks, hook them up to kingdom hearts, then fill them all with the exact same heart and mind.
Translation--they were gonna turn all of the members into Xehanort.
Yeah I wouldn't take any battle from the Mirage Arena as being canon to the story. The only optional bosses that ever became more was Young Xehanort (BBS mysterious figure), Xemnas (kh1 unknown) and Lingering Will (KH2FM).
 

ImpZ

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Yeah, and I mean arguably only the Xemnas fight was canon. Lingering Will and Young Xehanort are never brought up again, and seem to only serve as easter eggs for future releases.

Although someone had the theory that is how MX knew the rules of time travel. His younger self tried to kill Terra/Aqua/Ventus to see if he could alter time, and he couldn't beat them since, well you know, destiny and all that, so quickly left. It makes sense, MX is a curious person, and if he had time travel he would definitely test its bounds and find out exactly what he can and can't do.

I would argue the YX fight was canon, at least in regards to him fighting Aqua, since she would be around in that part of the timeline possibly, everyone else was.... Busy lol. Lingering Will, I haven't a clue if it was ever brought up again or not. It fits into the canon nicely though and doesnt cause any issues in my eyes.
 

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^ The Linger Will battle was confirmed actually:

Q13: What is the true form of Lingering Sentiment?
A: After Terra lost his body, his thoughts gathered into his armor.

At the end of Terra’s scenario, Master Xehanort had commandeered his body, so his thoughts took control of his armor. Afterward, the armor stayed in the keyblade graveyard, until KHII FM where “Lingering Sentiment” went against Sora. Because he saw that it was not his chosen one Riku using a keyblade, but Sora, he grew suspicious and thought he had something to do with Master Xehanort and attacked him.

After fighting him, LS says this because he feels Ventus inside of Sora.
The YX however isn't never mentioned again. There's a way to place it but nothing saying it actually happened. The idea Xehanort was testing his powers is very much likely, his curiosity drives him to do many things after all.
 

ImpZ

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Oh it was confirmed? Woohoo. It fits in nicely so I was alright to just call it canon, but it actually being canon is awesome.

So.... If the Kingdom Hearts of Worlds is the one behind the DtD... And Ansem made it by stealing hearts of worlds and using the final keyhole, doesn't that make it also an artificial Kingdom Hearts, not the true one?

I know I am sorry that is being pedantic, but like, if Xemnas made an artificial Kh by stealing hearts of man, then Ansem did essentially the same thing for his KH, implying it may not have been the true one either?

Like I know the one behind the DtD was the true one, so I am not arguing that point or nothing, but it makes the implication of it being artificial as well, due to the Final Keyhole being artificial of some sort. At least it appears that way, even though I know that isn't the case.
 

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Kingdom Hearts

According to legend, the source of all true light is known as "Kingdom Hearts."

We know Xehanort has created two Kingdom Hearts now, both artificially, by amassing enough hearts. One was made from the hearts of worlds, and the other from the hearts of people.

The Kingdom Hearts made from the hearts of worlds had a door that led to the realm of darkness; its depths were never fully charted.

The Kingdom Hearts made from the hearts of people was believed to have the power to recomplete someone whose heart had been lost.
The KH1 kingdom hearts is indeed very much false. That's what this glossary quote was saying ^
 

Ruran

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Oh it was confirmed? Woohoo. It fits in nicely so I was alright to just call it canon, but it actually being canon is awesome.

So.... If the Kingdom Hearts of Worlds is the one behind the DtD... And Ansem made it by stealing hearts of worlds and using the final keyhole, doesn't that make it also an artificial Kingdom Hearts, not the true one?

I know I am sorry that is being pedantic, but like, if Xemnas made an artificial Kh by stealing hearts of man, then Ansem did essentially the same thing for his KH, implying it may not have been the true one either?

Like I know the one behind the DtD was the true one, so I am not arguing that point or nothing, but it makes the implication of it being artificial as well, due to the Final Keyhole being artificial of some sort. At least it appears that way, even though I know that isn't the case.
The KH behind the DtD, the KH of Worlds Hearts was also artificial. The real KH is in the RoD...somwheeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrre, but it's specific location is unknown.
 

ImpZ

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LOL, I read your quote of that Anagram, then I forgot where I saw it. Sorry sorry, I work night shift, and its almost time for me to sleep, so I may be a lil sleeping with my eyes open.

Right right, so arguably the only thing closest to the true Kingdom Hearts was in fact the one in BbS, if we just assume it formed due to Ventus-Vanitas. Okay that cleared it up. Hopefully I retain it and don't forget it in five minutes. Again.

Again, thank you both, Ruran, Anagram, very helpful.

I was looking at that KH encyclopedia and I realized I forgot the detail of MX talking about forging the X-blade would summon Kingdom Hearts. I haven't played that game fully through for at least two years or so I think, and I completely forgot about that report stating that. So yeah, I missed something obvious.

EDIT: Actually I am running around myself on that too. Just because the Kingdom Hearts in KH was artificial in nature and construction, doesn't mean it is any less true then any other Kingdom Hearts, due to the DtD leading into the Realm of Darkness. So ignore my rambling.
 
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Gram

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:O
I never even noticed that! And here I thought Kingdom Hearts didn't even appear in Kingdom Hearts 1. Good eye!
lol It's easy to miss. In the original ps2 version it was practically invisible due to the darker lighting.

EDIT: Actually I am running around myself on that too. Just because the Kingdom Hearts in KH was artificial in nature and construction, doesn't mean it is any less true then any other Kingdom Hearts, due to the DtD leading into the Realm of Darkness. So ignore my rambling.
If an official glossary says the kh1 kingdom hearts is false then it is false. The DtD was a separate matter because it was summoned by using the 7 PoH.
 
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ImpZ

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Well what I meant was its construction was artificial but its nature is more in line with the true Kingdom Hearts, but yeah you are right.
 
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