State of Sleep: Terra and Ven/2



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Key of Valor

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Last time I posted this theory, it was closed because it was too long…

So this time I cut some stuff out (still pretty long, even though it's about 20% shorter).

For the original version of this theory, check out the link below.
http://forums.khinsider.com/future-kingdom-hearts/127049-state-sleep-terra-ven.html

Anyway, on to the theory.

State of Sleep: Terra and Ven/2

Heartless and Nobody
Two very different beings, opposite in many aspects,
But one thing they have in common is that both beings can’t feel…
Or at least, they’re not supposed to.

Birth By Sleep… interesting title… what does it relate to?

Maybe Reverse/Rebirth holds the answer…
In the opening scene… the part where DiZ describes something he calls ‘Sleep’

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNq9R...om=PL&index=62
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkB3L...592EE&index=65

Spoiler Spoiler Show

Spoiler Spoiler Show


It’s a very curious thing. According to the claims made by DiZ, Maleficent, and Zexion, this ‘Sleep’ appears to be a state of the heart. The State of Sleep seems to involve a few specific things.

1. Emptying of the Heart
2. Losing much of Light and Darkness
3. Losing Memories in the Heart
4. Only being able to retain Memories associated with Darkness

Riku denied slumber, so he avoided the full toll of the State of Sleep.

A heart in the State of Sleep is supposed to be empty and lacking in most all its memories except for those related to darkness. Riku was lucky enough to retain those memories. But what might have happened to Riku’s heart if it had truly lost all those memories?

Marluxia, Lord of Castle Oblivion, claims that he knows the result.

YouTube - Kingdom Hearts:Chain of Memories-Encounter with Marluxia

Spoiler Spoiler Show


Interesting, one whose heart loses their memories become unable to feel or care, much like a Heartless or Nobody.

Now we move on to Apprentice Xehanort. With all the evil acts he committed as human, he might have very well been incapable of adequately feeling emotions. Plus, Xemnas gives us some insight of the state of Xehanort’s heart.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ue7L...eature=related

Spoiler Spoiler Show


Nobodies are supposed to remember the emotions, both good and bad, of the original self. Yet, when Sora inquires if Xemnas remembered any positive emotions, Xemnas claims that he unfortunately can’t recall such emotions. All Xemnas seems to remember are dark emotions from dark memories. Perhaps Apprentice Xehanort was indeed incapable of feeling or caring. Maybe Xehanort’s heart was close to the State of Sleep. It’s not that hard to believe. A heart that has lost most all its memories, according Marluxia, becomes unable to feel or care. A heart being emptied of most its memories is also a characteristic of the State of Sleep. It’s clear that Xehanort is related to Birth By Sleep, so he potentially might be associated with the State of Sleep as well.

But who is Xehanort exactly?

Apprentice Xehanort seems to resemble Terra a great deal. The only key differences between the two are eye color, hair color, and skin tone. However, I wouldn’t consider these significant differences, and they can easily be dismissed.

For the sake of this theory, Terra alone could potentially be Xehanort, and I say this to establish that this theory deals with Terra’s heart specifically.

When Xehanort appeared in Radiant Garden, he lacked most all his memories. In fact, the only thing he claimed to remember was the name ‘Xehanort’. Now, if Xeanort was just Terra, and Terra’s had come close to the State of Sleep, then one of the effects would be not only to lose most all memories, but also only retain memories associated with darkness. It’s no secret that Terra despises Master Xehanort, so if Terra only kept his dark memories, then the memory of Xehanort would at the very least be the most dominant remnant in his memory, which may be why Terra takes the name Xehanort.

Lingering Sentiment, the extra in KH2:fm, even makes the point of saying (according to a translation):

Spoiler Spoiler Show


…All the remains is hatred towards Xehanort. All that remains are those dark memories in Terra’s heart?

Anyway, moving on to something more cannon and less controversial…

Terra’s dark memories might even have its other subconscious influences on Xehanort’s work. Xehanort’s design for the Heartless Seal slightly resembles the Dark Soldier’s Design, and they both have the same color scheme too. Certainly, we expect the Dark Soldier to be tied to those dark memories Terra’s heart would still possess.

Xehanort would eventually produce a very special heartless. Why does Xehanort’s Heartless possess unique qualities? I think it was because the heart that became a Heartless was in a very unique state, the State of Sleep.

Xehanort’s Heartless was dependant on possessing another’s vessel as his own. However, why did he not just possess a Nobody’s vessel? Possessing a simple Dusk and changing its form should have sufficed, unless he wasn’t able to…

Theoretically though, an empty heart might not have the power of its own to stay attached to a vessel.

An empty heart may have to rely on seizing the power of another’s heart. It is an empty heart with little power, and might try to fill itself up with the power from other hearts. To do so though, these empty hearts would need to acquire the means to infiltrate another person’s heart.

In Riku’s case, Xehanort’s Heartless persuaded Riku to open his heart completely. By opening his heart, Xehanort’s heart was able to infiltrate Riku’s heart and seize the power in Riku’s heart to manipulate Riku’s vessel.

YouTube - kingdom hearts hollow bastion visit 1 part 1

Possessed Riku though, as a small note, his fighting style has some similar elements to that of the Dark Soldier mixed together Riku’s fighting style. It’s a dual influence from Xehanort’s dark memories and Riku’ darkness which Xehanort was now freely using as his own.

Possessed Riku is defeated by Sora and disappears. Sora picks up the Heart Unlocker and stabs himself, thus opening his heart. Kairi’s heart flies out and returns to her vessel. Sora’s heart becomes a Heartless. Sora’s vessel disappears and becomes a Nobody. (There might be more occurring in this scene and that will be re-addressed later in the theory)

After this, the Final Keyhole is completed and Ansem SoD returns still attached to Riku’s vessel, except Xehanort’s Heart has altered its appearance to one more of his liking. Again, the clothing Ansem SoD materialized are very similar in design and color scheme to that of Master Xehanort’s clothing, which may be another subconscious influence from Xehanort’s dark memories.

Anyways, Riku holds Ansem SoD back. Kairi, Donald, and Goofy escape. They come across Sora’s Heartless. Kairi’s light restores Sora to a physical form. They all get away. Sora and the gang go to the End of the World. Sora confronts Ansem SoD, who summons a guardian which I believe might a materialization of Riku’s darkness that Ansem SoD seized as his own.

Ansem SoD calls on the power of Kingdom Hearts. The light shines on him and he disappears. Riku’s vessel returns to Riku’s heart, and Riku regains control. However, Xehanort’s heart was only weakened, not expelled from the vessel. Throughout CoM R/R, Xehanort’s Heartless lingers in Riku trying to seize Riku’s vessel through Riku’s own darkness once again. Riku however is the victor in Castle Oblivion and manages to suppress Xehanort’s Heartless for a while.

However, when Riku his forced to embrace darkness to capture Roxas, Xehanort’s Heartless is able to influence Riku’s vessel to change shape into his image once more. The reason why Xehanort’s Guardian is able to assist Riku in capturing Roxas is because, as I theorized, the guardian was originally Riku’s materialized darkness in the first place. Now Riku is embracing his own darkness, and is able to summon that power for himself.

However, Riku avoids using the Guardian again. From then on, and during most all of KH2, Riku is stuck in Xehanort’s form. However, the light from Ansem’s machine helps relieve Riku from that darkness in his heart. Because of this, Xehanort’s heart loses its hold on Riku, and Riku’s vessel reverts to normal. However, if the light from Kingdom Hearts wasn’t enough to expel Xehanort’s heart from Riku’s vessel, then I doubt the light from Ansem’s machine would have better luck.

I believe Xehanort’s heart still resides in Riku somewhere. It’s lost its hold on Riku’s heart, and now Xehanort’s heart is empty itself, being in the State of Sleep. I suspect that Xehanort’s heart still sleeps deep inside Riku.

(again though, I believe Xehanort’s heart is Terra’s heart. So I believe Terra’s heart in the State of Sleep still lies with Riku by the end of KH2)

Might there be another whose heart also lies in the State of Sleep?

A characteristic of someone associated in the State of Sleep is the lost of memories.

Now we move on to Ven, who might potentially be losing his memories in Birth By Sleep.

YouTube - Kingdom Hearts-Birth By Sleep Trailer *NEW*

At first, Ven doesn’t seem to recognize Master Xehanort. This might be a sign that Ven is losing his memories, which might explain how Master Xehanort believes that Ven is losing something. The fact though that in a sudden moment Ven comes to the sudden realization that he recognizes Master Xehanort could be the indication of a dark memory being triggered.

And then there is Ven’s request at the end of the trailer, to be erased. Sounds like Ven doesn’t care what happens to himself, perhaps because he is unable to care. Perhaps Ven’s heart in that scene is being troubled by its emptiness. I think it’s very possible that Ven’s heart may be drifting into the State of Sleep during Birth By Sleep.

It’s a very vague idea, but Ven might be just as unfortunate as Terra. Some place along the timeline, Ven’s heart makes the full transition in the State of Sleep, possibly also taking on a phantom form, and for whatever reason, Ven’s heart seeks out Sora. It took Xehanort’s Heartless nine years to find Destiny Islands. It might very well take Ven almost equal time to find it himself. Ven’s heart arrives there some time earlier than Xehanort’s Heartless, and may sleep away in Sora’s vessel. Ven’s sleeping heart may only be able to affect Sora’s heart when Sora sleeps as well, thus Ven could be the potential influence of Sora’s dreams. If Ven is the voice, seems to be preparing Sora for opening the Door to Light. Note this, the Door to Light has never been claimed to be connected to the Keyblade. It seems odd but it’s true. The voice never mentioned the Keyblade to Sora in the dreams. Why would it? How could it? Sora wasn’t intended to receive the Keyblade, at least not at that point. The voice said Sora held the mightiest weapon of all, but at the End of the World, it is revealed that the voice was referring to Sora’s heart. Plus, in KH2, if that really was the Door to Light, it involved no Keyblade. Sora’s visit at Yensid’s Tower foreshadowed how Sora’s heart was the key to the Door to Light, not the Keyblade…

Back to the topic at hand though, Ven seemed to be preparing Sora to open the Door to Light. Sora is lucky enough to obtain a Keyblade and then he commences his normal adventuring until he reaches Hollow Bastion.

There, Riku reclaims the Keyblade. Then in the Entrance Hall, Sora proclaims how his friends are his power, and the Keyblade chooses Sora over Riku. (Sora’s claim of ‘my friends are my power’ acts as an interesting parallel to ‘this power I use for my friends’. If the Keyblade really was directed to act on Terra’s constant spirit, it would make sense for the Keyblade to go to Sora at this point. Terra’s probably real emotional about that whole friend stuff)

Anyway, Riku runs off, opens his heart, gets possessed. Then Possessed Riku and Sora face off. Sora wins the fight and Possessed Riku disappears. Then Sora grabs the Heart Unlocker and stabs himself, thus opening his heart

When Riku opened his heart, Xehanort’s Heartless seized the power in Riku’s heart for his own.

These hearts in the State of Sleep are empty, so they try to fill the emptiness with power from other hearts whenever the opportunity presents itself.

Again, when Riku opened his heart, Xehanort’s Heartless seized the power in Riku’s heart for his own.

Sora opened his heart with the Heart Unlocker, so perhaps as he did so, Ven’s heart seized the power in Sora’s heart, just before Sora’s heart became a Heartless.

The power in Sora’s heart though is very different in contrast to the power in Riku’s heart. While Xehanort’s Heartless seized Riku’s darkness, Ven’s heart could seize Sora’s light.

If Kairi’s light could provide a physical form for Sora, then perhaps Sora’s light could do the same for Ven.

A physical form is materialized from Sora’s light, and within this being sleeps Ven’s heart. However, this being primarily acts on its essence it received from Sora. This being may be based of Ven’s appearance, and even possess Ven’s heart, but Ven’s heart only sleeps within, while it acts mostly on Sora’s essence. Thus, this being is not Ven. This being is different. This being is Roxas.

Roxas was claimed to hold part of Sora’s power with him, but this part that Roxas possessed was never specified. Roxas may not even have Sora’s vessel, the piece Roxas took from Sora could have been a portion of Sora’s light, which might be why Sora started acting like a jerk in Castle Oblivion. If Kairi’s light really did provide Sora with a new physical form, Sora might not even needed his original vessel.

Remember, Roxas was essential for Sora to awake from his slumber. From what we’ve seen from Days, memories are flowing out of Sora’s heart, so the issue didn’t deal with the vessel, the issue appears to have dealt with Sora’s heart in the pod. Xemnas claimed that Sora was incomplete, and perhaps the piece of Sora that was incomplete was Sora’s heart, lacking the power Ven’s heart took away.

Now just to lightly touch upon this, why do I not claim Roxas to be composed out of Sora’s body and soul? Cause I believe Namine is composed of it.

Secret Ansem Report said:
I have arrived at a hypothesis. I believe that Naminé was born as a special type of Nobody when Sora attacked himself with the Keyblade, causing his and Kairi's hearts to leave their bodies simultaneously. Naminé emerged as Kairi's Nobody...but the body and soul necessary to exist as a Nobody belonged to Sora.
Kairi’s heart was attached to Sora’s vessel too, so the power of her heart may have influenced Sora’s vessel to take a different shape when becoming a Nobody, yet this Nobody could have its influences from Sora’s heart as well, which may be why Namine is Kairi’s Nobody with power over Sora’s memories. Plus, Namine is meant to translate into ‘wave’ which is nothing short than the combination between the sea (Kairi) and the sky (Sora). And forget not that Sora’s vessel was once combined with both hearts. Now, if Namine is composed of Sora’s vessel, then why merge with Kairi? Sora lost his vessel at Hollow Bastion, but Kairi’s light gave him a new one. It’s only natural that Kairi should get paid back. Kairi invested light to create a new vessel. To balance the equation, a vessel should be converted into light and returned to Kairi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ue7L...eature=related

See how Namine merges into Kairi in the form of light. That’s my point right there.

Back to Roxas though…

Kairi’s power had to return to her eventually, via Namine. Likewise, Sora’s power that granted Roxas a physical form would need to eventually return to Sora as well. In the meanwhile though, Roxas existed as a being possessing part of Sora’s light within him, as well as Ven’s sleeping heart, which took said light from Sora to ‘fill its emptiness’.

Notice though, Roxas’ clothing is of similar color scheme to that of Master Xehanort, once again supporting the claim that Ven’s heart is in the State of Sleep and Roxas is being subconsciously influenced by dark memories still present in Ven’s heart.

If Roxas has a heart, why is he claimed to be a Nobody. A Nobody is essentially a non-identity, half of someone else, a being that struggles with the ability to feel… all things Roxas having Ven’s Sleeping heart still holds to. Roxas’ lack of memory and inability to adequately feel emotions both correspond with characteristics of a Sleeping heart.

And then, there is Roxas’ confidence that he has a heart… I believe it’s one of the last things he says

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp5mV...eature=related

Though Ven’s heart may sleep in Roxas, some of the feelings in Ven’s heart may occasionally find ways to affect Roxas’ feelings. Sometimes people react to their surroundings, even in their sleep. Likewise, during some of Roxas’ more significant experiences, Ven’s heart may react and enable Roxas to actually feel some emotions.

And then there is Roxas’ conversation with Axel about whether Roxas possesses a heart or not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a85MG...eature=related

The heart is something one can’t feel? Hearts are supposed to feel… Is Roxas describing his heart? If so, it only further supports him possessing Ven’s heart in the State of Sleep.

Ansem SoD and Roxas share many similarities. They both are the ‘special’ types of the beings they are categorized as. They both have the ability to levitate. They both wear black, white, red clothing. They both are BBS look alike (Ansem SoD to Terra, and Roxas to Ven). They both are characterized with the a glow of a blue color (which is a reoccurring color in Birth By Sleep).

And now if we were to contrast them, Ansem SoD commands darkness, while Roxas’ power is over light. And this is again because Ansem SoD thrived off Riku’s darkness while Roxas thrived off Sora’s light.

The only real difference between the two is how Ansem SoD can summon a Guardian while Roxas appears to not possess such an ability. Ansem SoD though seemed more self aware of his abilities, so even if Roxas could replicate that ability, I highly doubt he would know how to, or perhaps he could subconsciously (without being aware of it) summon a being like the Guardian. Perhaps Shadow Roxas in Virtual Twilight Town was just that… or maybe not. Ansem’s Guardian though is the materialized representation of Riku’s darkness, so if Roxas was to display this ability, I suspect his ‘Guardian’ would be more like a materialized representation of Sora’s light. Ansem’s Guardian was a being that accompanied him in battle, drew from Ansem’s power, and was the materialized representation of Riku’s darkness. Roxas’ Guardian should likewise be a being that accompanies Roxas in battle, draws from his same power, and is the materialized representation of Sora’s light. Unfortunately no such being matches said description well enough… besides, what would a representation of Sora’s light look like anyways?

Disregarding that issue for a moment though, let’s revisit the story. Roxas merges with Sora, returning Ven’s sleeping heart to Sora. Xehanort’s (Terra’s) heart is still sleeping inside Riku even after Ansem’s machine explodes. By the end of KH2, we have two friends, sitting along the Dark Coastline, and sleeping within both of them could very well be the hearts of Terra in Riku and Ven in Sora.
 

Sa?x

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I'm not even going to bother reading all of this, as I've seen your theories before. They're all long, and they're all bad. No one's going to spend time reading this ludicrous shit, KoV, make a tl;dr version, and you've got a better chance of it being read.
 

Sa?x

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Don't even bother, Araliya. He does this shit once a week or so. x.X
No one's going to read this, no one with a life, that is.
 

Allister Rose

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cant you just state your theory without any of this meaningless proof. just quote every thing, and put them in spoilers
 

keybladelegacy

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Saïx;3972328 said:
I'm not even going to bother reading all of this, as I've seen your theories before. They're all long, and they're all bad. No one's going to spend time reading this ludicrous shit, KoV, make a tl;dr version, and you've got a better chance of it being read.
Your wrong I had already read the long version heres my summary.

Terra was in a state of sleep which would mean that he would have at least lost all his memories and only remember Dark memories such as riku in CO so Terra remembered Xehanort and something about MX clothes because it is a dark memory and DS which could relate to Riku because of Terra's heart is projecting dark memories into riku by being possesed by Ansem. Also Xehanort(Terra) cant feel because of the state of sleep he was in and supporting this is Xemnas not remembering how to feel.

Ven is in a state of sleep because he doesnt care about what happens to him(no emotions), he lost his memories, and possibly neither light or darkness. which his heart traveled to Sora talking to him in Dive to the Heart. Later on influences Roxas because of the state his heart was in or Kairi's light giving it form.

Last when Riku opened his heart, Terra's empty heart
seized some power in Riku's heart (darkness), while
when Sora opened his heart, Ven's empty heart
seized some power in Sora's heart (light)

I prefer reading it all to fully understand.
 

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cant you just state your theory without any of this meaningless proof. just quote every thing, and put them in spoilers
:V proof is hardly meaningless in a theory.
This guy just more often than not has none that matter.

Either way, tl;dr I forsee a repeat of what happened last time. We'll see though.

*glances over KBL's summary*
...jeez, it's as bad as the rest of them.

No, I'll rephrase.

It's the amalgamation of all of them put together to seemingly make it better, only it makes it worse because you base things on baseless things.
Bravo. I don't think I've ever seen anyone fail do what you've done. And I'm grateful for that fact.
 

Allister Rose

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:V proof is hardly meaningless in a theory.
This guy just more often than not has none that matter.

Either way, tl;dr I forsee a repeat of what happened last time. We'll see though.

*glances over KBL's summary*
...jeez, it's as bad as the rest of them.

does everyone like to find stuff and argue about it?


anyways, i meant sources. we dont need sources. just quote the information and put them in spoilers.
 

Sa?x

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@KBL

Alright, like I said, all long, and all bad.
I guess I should change it to long and/or bad. This is certainly short, but it's still fucking stupid.
 

Iridium

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does everyone like to find stuff and argue about it?
Without arguing there is no discussion; no exchange of views. Take that away and a forum can't exist.

anyways, i meant sources. we dont need sources. just quote the information and put them in spoilers.
Well it's always good to site ones sources in a theory from time to time, that usually comes later when that said person is challenged. So I see your point.
 

Chakolat Strawberry

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My brain hurts IT'S TO LONG..
Even reading KBL's tl;dr, I don't really like the theory, sorry. Make a tl;dr next time mkay.
 

Silver_Soul

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i cant believe i read this
the theory doesnt look so bad
but im still kinda new to KH theorizing
 

Sa?x

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Protip, Silver_Soul:
It is bad. Very bad. Even when summarized, it's bad. Almost everything KoV posts is bad.
 

keybladelegacy

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Saïx;3972349 said:
@KBL

Alright, like I said, all long, and all bad.
I guess I should change it to long and/or bad. This is certainly short, but it's still fucking stupid.
I think its actually good. By saying the state of sleep is similar to having no memories, emotions, and only can remember dark memories.

So if Terra was in a state of sleep or almost in a state of sleep kinda like Riku. He would have almost no memories which Xehanort seems to be experiencing and only remembers dark memories such as Xehanort.

EDIT:
Ven in a state of sleep being his heart having no memories going to sora. His body and soul changing it into an appearance similar to vens.

Almost everything KoV posts is bad.
Well disapprove it then or come up with a better one.
 

Insomniac

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Protip, Silver_Soul:
It is bad. Very bad. Even when summarized, it's bad. Almost everything KoV posts is bad.
Then don't read Key of Valor's posts if you have such a problem with them. You're not contributing anything to this thread other than insults towards the thread starter. If you don't like Key of Valor's theories and, think they are too long then don't read them. If you think they are so terrible and can be disproven so easily then instead of insulting Key of Valor, post evidence that actually contradicts the theory.

I read the theory and, it isn't bad. Though it does have a few holes.

Secret Ansem Report 9 said:
In other words, both the Nobody called Namine’ and the Heartless – proof of a lost heart – are extremely unstable beings who lack the bodies needed to produce a Nobody. Therefore, they also lack Kairi’s memories. One reason for this may be that Kairi’s heart did not return to the darkness when separated from her body, but rather migrated to another vessel…deep within Sora’s heart. That is, Namine’ is an alter ego of the Kairi who has directly interfered with Sora’s heart. Could this be why Sora and those whose hearts are connected to him were able to have their memories controlled? She is a non-being in the truest sense of the word; having not become a Nobody and with nowhere left to go, she is but the most fleeting of shadows.
Ansem the Wise, had came up with another explanation for the events that occured when Sora released his heart. So the more recent theory was that Roxas was made up of Sora's body and Soul while Namine was nothingness in the truest sense of the word.

Also, Xehanort's Heartless didn't have any effect on Riku's dark suit. The dark suit was given to Riku before Xehanort's Heartless had possesed him, which means that his dark memories would have no effect on it's appearance since he had no connection to it from what we know.
 

Key of Valor

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Actual Ansem's more recent statement about Namine was the one I posted.
Just because it was the most recent, doesn't mean the one I posted is true.
Plus there is potential that it could be interpreted different ways. I'm just
stating my views on Namine as a possibility.

As for Riku's dark suit, I didn't credit that to Xehanort's dark memories.
The only clothing I credited to Xehanort's dark memories was his black,
white, red clothing.

And I appreciate all those who read the theory and/or attempted to read it.
 

Memory Master

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Actual Ansem's more recent statement about Namine was the one I posted.
Just because it was the most recent, doesn't mean the one I posted is true.
Plus there is potential that it could be interpreted different ways. I'm just
stating my views on Namine as a possibility.

As for Riku's dark suit, I didn't credit that to Xehanort's dark memories.
The only clothing I credited to Xehanort's dark memories was his black,
white, red clothing.

And I appreciate all those who read the theory and/or attempted to read it.
I read the state of sleep part of the theory. I must say that it makes alot of sense. If you think about it, sleep is when someone is unaware of anything but darkness. This is how I describe things when I sleep:

I'm unaware of anything and it's very dark for a few moments, then I wake up. Before I started to remember things I was unaware of anyting and it was black for a few moments then I began to remember stuff.
 
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