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(Spoilers) Who feels sorry for Lea and Isa?



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fantasy08

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Their nobodies can go jump of a skyscraper, but their human-selves, in the little time we saw them in game and the credits, were genuinely nice people and thus didn't deserve getting turned into the nobodies and having their humanity ripped from them. I pity them. I pity all the members actually that showed up. All of them just happened to be living at the wrong place at the wrong time. MX showing up ruined them all.Except for Braig. That devious ******* knew all along.

Cute little Ienzo was as innocent as can be, and yet he's going to turn into calculating, unfeeling Zexion. Even seemed nice, and yet changes into Vexen who likes to experimenting on little kids among other heinous things,and the list goes on. I would like all of them to come back as humans,and with nomura's plot coupon about nobodies it can happen. They need their redemption and revenge.

Oh Axel why did you give up on your friend? Even by nobody standards he implied that Saix was crueler than most, and yet instead of helping him show a little humanity he drops him for a lookalike of a boy he met for a couple of minutes a decade ago. Don't get me started on Terra and Xenmas. My pity is high for Terra. MX seriously needs to get what's coming to him, and I hope Terra, Lea, Isa and the rest come back to redeem themselves by helping Sora destroy him once and for all.
 

loke13

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Re: Who feels sorry for Lea and Isa?

Lea was cocky and Isa was emotionless they got what they deserved.
 

maian

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Re: Who feels sorry for Lea and Isa?

I agree. It's tragic, and it's one of the things that I think adds so much depth and intrigue to these characters. Not only Lea and Isa, but all of the Organization members. However, that's not to say all of them were these great people before they became Nobodies. Didn't the original six voluntarily become Heartless anyway? I'm not familiar with the rest of the Org's stories.

Regardless, having your humanity and all sense of emotion ripped from you is a horrible thing, and even IF it's what the members intended, it's hard to imagine any of them being as, well, heartless as they are as Nobodies. But can they be blamed for what they did as Nobodies? It's almost as if they don't know any better, having no kind of emotion. It seems some of the Org members were genuinely good people before their transformations, while others were inherently ill natured. Didn't Dilan want to purge all emotion from the beginning? That's what his behavior in KH2/Days implies. I wish we could find out more about how Axel and Saix were distanced, because there's probably an interesting story there. MOST of the Org members deserve for Xehanort to get what's coming to him, and for those who don't, if they return as Somebodies, they can have a chance to redeem themselves.

If there's one thing I'm glad this game did, it made us hate Master/Xehanort even more. That devious little bitch. Even if the Org members DID voluntarily become Heartless, the knowledge and means to become so wouldn't be attainable had Xehanort not come along. Bad people or not, OP is right. They were in a bad place at a bad time.
 

maian

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Re: Who feels sorry for Lea and Isa?

Who's to say that Ienzo was innocent? He doesn't even talk, so who knows what he was thinking?

Eh, one can only guess. Even if he DOES turn into cold-blooded Zexion, a little orphaned nine year old (give or take) boy can only be so bad. I imagine he was very innocent, albeit extremely intelligent at one point, and whatever the hell events that happened that led to him becoming Zexion were the things that ultimately screwed him up.

Of course, who's to say anything about Ienzo at all? We don't even know why the crap he's a kid, or if he's even an adult at all when he's Zexion. Probably not a good idea to base theories around him. I'm hoping one of the secret reports might shed some light on the Ienzo situation.
 

fantasy08

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Re: Who feels sorry for Lea and Isa?

Didn't the original six voluntarily become Heartless anyway? I'm not familiar with the rest of the Org's stories.

Yes, they did,but that's not what I'm looking at. Like you we both said who put the idea in their heads? I don't think normal human-beings go around saying oh lets pick at our hearts. When you have a darkness obsessed, psycho in your mist. Things happen. As for Braig he has a lot to answer for. Out all of them as humans he's the one I don't care turned( even though I like him. Braig was great. A devious asshole but great) because he knew from the start what MX was about. Long before Terra was possessed. I feel sorry for Diz to. Him and Ienzo eating ice-cream together. Treating him like his child.He really did care about his apprentices. Like a family. Then it all goes to hell. The banish him. He comes back and wants to kill them, and all because of MX. He ruined all their lives, and along with Terra, Ven,and Aqua they deserve retribution for that.

Didn't Dilan want to purge all emotion from the beginning?
He didn't seem like he did at all. I think that's something he started thinking about under MX's influence just like all the dark experiments they did was because of him.

Just because their nobodies were bastards doesn't mean that they should be condemned forever in darkness. As humans they were good people before a sick f*ck came into their lives, and they deserve to come back and help kick his ass. :)
 
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Zulkir

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Re: Who feels sorry for Lea and Isa?

You know how sora(according to the secret ending) is now supposed to go on a rescue mission to save TAV(super-heavily mplied)? He may go further and save the Org member's hearts as well, some if not all.



Death in KH...we've discussed this a lot before, a lot of us in the past, thought Aqua was going to die...


but the OPPOSITE happened, instead, we find out Ansem is ALIVE.


KH is about life more than it is about death, I wouldn't be surprised if all 13 of the Org are saved and redeemed, hell, all of the heartless turned back into normal humans in the end.


BBS turned out exactly as Nomura said it would, "It's a sad game, but it leaves you hoping for a bright future".


I myself said in the past "Yeah, BBS is a sad game, but Kingdom Hearts is not a sad series".
 

Beyer

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Re: Who feels sorry for Lea and Isa?

Oh Axel why did you give up on your friend? Even by nobody standards he implied that Saix was crueler than most, and yet instead of helping him show a little humanity he drops him for a lookalike of a boy he met for a couple of minutes a decade ago. Don't get me started on Terra and Xenmas. My pity is high for Terra. MX seriously needs to get what's coming to him, and I hope Terra, Lea, Isa and the rest come back to redeem themselves by helping Sora destroy him once and for all.
I feel pity for the entire TAV. Makes me cry at the thought :cry:

As for Axel, Saïx changed on him I think. Isa probably had the feelings hidden and so Lea was friends with him for that (he probably saw such feelings on occasion, or he had no other friends lol) but once he became Saïx, he lost that and Axel felt like he had lost a friend. Saïx still held their past friendship over him though as a way to get what he wanted.
Saïx truly embraced nobody hood and became cold and manipulative. Axel did most of what he did in CoM for his friend. He ended up getting back some sort of feeling after meeting Roxas and Sora, ended up getting back what he used to have. Feelings. He seems to be very dedicated to the organization's supposed goal (even though so many wanted the power of KH) and wants feeling back. He feels like he has a heart around Sora and Roxas. He feels real friendship with them.
He probably made a choice, to leave the bad friend and go with the good one. I actually congratulate him on choosing to go with the one who actually gave him emotions, let go off the past and move on.

Still I love both characters, not together though...

On topic: I feel genuine pity for anyone who has lost emotion, whether they wanted to or not, such a thing is a fate worse than death to me.
 

maian

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Re: Who feels sorry for Lea and Isa?

I think it can be assumed the Org members will find their retribution. Although, again, I feel like we might only be seeing the more "important" members, ie, the original six + Lea/Isa if they are to return.

Fantasy08: I DO agree with everything you said, I'm just raising some things to think about. I think this thread is less about feeling sorry for the Org members, and more about hating Xehanort. I never really thought about it like that until you put it into those words. I mean, he really did screw them all over, badly. As of yet, no one has a happy ending, thanks to him. Axel's story alone could make a grown man cry (maybe not). A happy, carefree, friendly guy is transformed into a heartless, emotionless vessel who has no second thought in carrying out atrocious acts, losing his longtime best friend in the process. When he finally starts gaining the capacity to even imagine what it's LIKE to feel, everything goes to hell, he loses his best friend AGAIN, one of whom actually turned against him and then essentially died to Axel when he was fused into Sora. Axel then works relentlessly to get his only friend back, and dies for a fruitless cause. We've got Xehanort to thank for that.

Of course, we could have a similar paragraph for every Organization member. And yes, Ansem the Wise. What a tragic, horrible story. I never felt this way about Xehanort before, since he was just a random background character who provided the backstory for both of the main villains. But now that every main villain has essentially been Master Xehanort, we can now realize how evil he really is.
 
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Zulkir

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Re: Who feels sorry for Lea and Isa?

Yeah, with all this new info, it really makes you hate Xehanort, and Braig to a degree.
 

fantasy08

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Re: Who feels sorry for Lea and Isa?

Saïx truly embraced nobody hood and became cold and manipulative. Axel did most of what he did in CoM for his friend. He ended up getting back some sort of feeling after meeting Roxas and Sora, ended up getting back what he used to have. Feelings. He seems to be very dedicated to the organization's supposed goal (even though so many wanted the power of KH) and wants feeling back. He feels like he has a heart around Sora and Roxas. He feels real friendship with them.
He probably made a choice, to leave the bad friend and go with the good one. I actually congratulate him on choosing to go with the one who actually gave him emotions, let go off the past and move on.

Sorry, but I think what Axel did was cruel. Isa was his friend. Short screen-time that it got we see this in BBS. Friendship seemed so important to Axel, and yet he let the one he actually knew for a long time as a human sink farther and farther down into nobody darkness. He'll move heaven and hell for Roxas. A guy he knew for a year,but won't help the one he knew for half his human life. Why is Saix so cruel as a nobody when he wasn't anything of the sort as human? Even Xigbar said in a scene that Saix was basically heart-blind more than any of the other members. Why is that? Why did becoming a nobody mess him up more badly then the others? Did Axel even care?

Also Saix was not holding their past friendship over his head. They both had a goal to take down Xenmas to get their hearts back. However, the problem with that was get our hearts back by any means necessary. Which meant using Xion and Roxas. Axel was all for their plan until they came into the picture, and thus he stopped caring about it since he was slowly getting his emotions back from them. That's great Axel, but what about Saix? Wasn't the plan to get both of you're emotions back. Your humanity. His now nonchalant attitude to their goal is what makes Saix remind him about it in that scene when he says his name. That's all.


Oh maian I know you were agreeing with me. I was just making some more points. :) Xehanort needs to get his ass kicked so bad it's not even funny. Terra, especially oh god Terra, needs to start it off. Followed by Aqua and Ven, and then the org members and Diz, and then all of them together with Sora need to finish him off. I hate, hate that bastard so much. You're right no one really has a happy ending yet,but if the secret ending is any indication it's might be coming.At least I have that to hope for.
 
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maian

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Re: Who feels sorry for Lea and Isa?

Yeah, with all this new info, it really makes you hate Xehanort, and Braig to a degree.

And that's one thing I love, because I couldn't give a damn about Xehanort when playing through KH2. He just seemed like a cop-out explanation for the existence of two cooler villains, and he looked pretty retarded to boot. When I saw and assumed that Terra would become Xehanort, that was a whole lot better to me. But when I learned that it was MX in Terra's body, that's the icing on the cake. To even become Xehanort, he stole a good, strong person's body and being, effectively eternally ruining Terra's life, as well as everyone around him.

Braig to me is more questionable, and that might be because I still haven't seen most of BBS' Braig content. It would seem that MX is the truly evil one, whereas Braig is just along for the ride. I also want to learn more about Braig in the Secret Reports. He's become so much more of a character in this game, and we don't even know what his motives are. It seems he's a character that won't be going away anytime soon. And as much as I want to love Braig, I really love him. A very well designed character.
 
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Zulkir

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Re: Who feels sorry for Lea and Isa?

See, I'm semi-sure Braig will come back, it'll be stupid not to bring him back after all the significance he was given in BBS.

That's why I'm ALSO inclined to believe that the other org members, POSSIBLY all of them, will come back as somebodies.


He's essentially MX's REAL apprentice/assistant, I wouldn't be surprised if the whole Xehanort(if he had his memories) gifted Braig with a keyblade...err or in his place...a key..pistol.


A gun that shoots keys....or a key that shoots bullets.
 

Ponisito

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Re: Who feels sorry for Lea and Isa?

See, I'm semi-sure Braig will come back, it'll be stupid not to bring him back after all the significance he was given in BBS.

That's why I'm ALSO inclined to believe that the other org members, POSSIBLY all of them, will come back as somebodies.


He's essentially MX's REAL apprentice/assistant, I wouldn't be surprised if the whole Xehanort(if he had his memories) gifted Braig with a keyblade...err or in his place...a key..pistol.


A gun that shoots keys....or a key that shoots bullets.

A keygun? xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
 

wolfant777

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Re: Who feels sorry for Lea and Isa?

technically wouldnt they all be kinda innocent.

My under standing was people with a strong heart who lost it created a nobody and a person with an especially strong heart became a better nobody (human form).
So i would be guessing that no matter how good lea, Isa or zexions human name was. when they lost their hearts for what ever reason, they must have all had strong hearts to create human nobodies.

We are brought up the way our parents / tutors teach us.
Since the leader of ORG 13 was filled with negative emotions, the ways of nobodies were only negative emotions because thats what they were taught. Although it is in them to be good (Axel, Roxas, Namine, Xion ect.)
 
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Zulkir

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Re: Who feels sorry for Lea and Isa?

i dont like them both so D: lket them die

You evil man, that mx in your name stands for Master Xehanort..doesn't it.



Well, not everyone likes every character, but game-wise you'd be expected to pity them.



Avant pointed out some heavy irony, they used to sneak into the castle when they were kids, yet all they wanted to do as part of the Org was to escape it's castle.
 

~Avant~

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Re: Who feels sorry for Lea and Isa?

Yeah Isa and Lea are simply traget whence compared to their Org. counterparts. I'm sure we'll see more of them in the future. With Axel joining the good guys, and Saix still misguidedly following Xehanort.
 

Lelouch

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Re: Who feels sorry for Lea and Isa?

As far as I'm concern all the members except Roxas and Xion deserved what they got. Axel is partially more redeemable and Demyx doesn't seem that bad, but the rest were evil bastards regardless if they had good intentions or not.
 

Birnax

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Re: Who feels sorry for Lea and Isa?

Lea was cocky and Isa was emotionless they got what they deserved.
Isa isn't emotionless. Did you see the scene he was in laughing with Lea and Ven?
 
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