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(SPOILERS) Union X: The ark to the future



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FudgemintGuardian

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How do you suppose it got there then? He snuck in and planted it?

Ephemer is the only other person who knows Brain has the Book of Prophecies.
He could've had Ava take him there.
 
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Luminary

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I went back to the scene where the leaders enter the Foretellers' Room for the first time. After giving it some thought, I wonder if the book lying on the desk wasn't intended to be the Book of Prophecies but just used the same asset due to some oversight? Because the fact that Brain shows this book's contents to the other leaders, tears a page out and gives it to them is a huge red flag.

I think the book Brain is shown reading after this scene is probably the actual Book of Prophecies, but the one here in this moment may be just an ordinary research book or something.

Was this when they needed ingredients for new spirits? If so, I could see that book as just being some kind of recipe book for the spirits. Why would the BoP have those recipes in it? And it isn’t impossible that it just happened to have the Master’s symbol on it since it belonged to him. I don’t think anyone would be foolish enough to just leave the BoP out on a table like that.
 

FudgemintGuardian

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Was this when they needed ingredients for new spirits? If so, I could see that book as just being some kind of recipe book for the spirits. Why would the BoP have those recipes in it? And it isn’t impossible that it just happened to have the Master’s symbol on it since it belonged to him. I don’t think anyone would be foolish enough to just leave the BoP out on a table like that.
I honestly don't expect much from KH characters when it comes to intelligence. 🤣

But if that book isn't meant to be the BoP, then yeah, that's a huge oversight.
 

SuperSaiyanSora

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Up to this point, we've been lead to believe certain people are guilty until it turns out that they aren't (or at least have a strong case for why they wouldn't be). First it was Lauriam, then it was Brain. Just like what others have mentioned already, not being chosen may not necessarily mean they're also Strelitzia's killer. Ven definitely seems to have a lot of darkness within him if Vanitas is anything to go by, but we don't know if he's always had that from the beginning OR if that darkness developed after what happened in the Age of Fairy Tales/Meeting Master Xehanort. So far, he's acted along the same lines as how we know Ven acts currently.

Plus, something to keep in mind... If the Master of Masters knows what the future holds, he absolutely would know about Ven, considering just how big his role is. Taught by Master Xehanort personally, ends up with Master Eraqus, Terra and Aqua, and then becomes one of the Guardians of Light in KH3. If anyone should have the Book of Prophecies, it's actually him. He's the most important piece in all of this next to Sora and Xehanort.

When it comes to Ava being Darkness? I think there's a good case for it, but I don't think I want to make that accusation just yet. Luxu says that "Ava had her own mission, and she carried it out." Now, we thought that it was her selecting enough capable Keyblade wielders and forming the Dandelions. But now that we know that she acted under her own agency when giving Brain the Book of Prophecies, what IS her mission? Given what she's said to Brain, she wants to change destiny, even if it means going against her own Master. But at what cost? Luxu didn't seem all that surprised that she wasn't summoned back, so I wonder if he knows what her plans were. Maybe he has an idea but nothing concrete, a hunch of some sort.

---

"Observations, Excerpt 1— I have seen it through; the Keyblade War unfolded exactly as written on the Lost Page. Now, the Keyblade the Master entrusted to me must be bequeathed to another. Five Union leaders have been chosen from the surviving Dandelions. I will pass the Keyblade to one of them, and then continue watching the future unfold. Yet it seems that someone has pulled the old switcheroo. One of the Five is an imposter, someone the Master did not choose. They represent a virus in the program he so carefully wrote. The virus has begun a strange undertaking: a reckless plot to allow the Five to escape into another worldline. Surely such a thing can't be possible? We're talking about the same trick that allowed the Dandelions to transfer to other worldlines after the Keyblade War. But these children are no Masters. They haven't the means...unless, of course, a certain lady of magic summoned here from the future knows more than I do. The whole Union leader thing was supposed to be by the books. Are these new events just another phase in the Master's grand plan? Unknown"

And... "Even on a worldline with no Keyblade War, peace is but a dream. In the absence of us and our Master, a "darkness" arrived—one that shall surely lead the World to yet another demise."

It makes you wonder. Darkness is the one that informed Maleficent of how to jump back to her original timeline, especially noting that going to the Daybreak Town tower will allow her to return to the real world, and the method for returning to her time is deep in the tower's real-world counterpart. The tower (if memory serves) is forbidden for everyone except for the Foretellers/Union Leaders and the Master of Masters, so how would Darkness know about this? This is secret information only a handful of people should be privy to.

Also... Ava is the one who chose Brain to have the Book of Prophecies, but with the latest update... He lets Ephemer see the list of the Chosen Five. Meaning, Brain and Ephemer were definitely chosen by the Master of Masters (unless Brain is luring a trap and made a fake list, but then, why?). Brain was looking over the BoP and then gets his Chirithy to summon Ven and Skuld. Right after that, he's talking with Ephemer. Everything currently going on is a direct result of Ava interfering. Plus... None of the Five would know who'd be chosen before everything happened, so Strelitzia's killer would have to be someone who knows she'd receive a rulebook.

Strelitzia was chosen and then was killed the next day after she realized Player isn't in the Dandelions and wanted to tell them the truth of the fate of the world. The Master of Masters told Ava that the Dandelions won't need to remember the tragedy that is the Keyblade War, so it's implied that a Union Leader talking to ANYONE about anything before the appointed time is a huge no-no. So what happened? My guess is, she was silenced. And if this is the case, then there's only one person who could've done it.

Now, switching gears and going back to this event:


Ephemer was surprised that Skuld was also chosen, but Skuld assumed Ephemer would be chosen. It might be me looking into this too much, but it's an interesting detail to note. Now Ephemer is asked about the person "who isn't meant to be a leader originally". Food for thought.

Another EXTREMELY important detail is the exchange between Ava and MoM: "Yeah, it'll be dangerous if anyone but little red circle there sees it. So make sure you only give it to them, and in secret." Right after that, Ven is revealed. However, we know that Ava gave Brain the BoP and now we ALSO know that he wasn't supposed to have it. So who was? I think it was Ven. Like I said above, it just makes sense if it turned out to be him, when you think about the role he's played in the series up to now.

All of this is a guess, but one thing is for sure -- next month's update is going to be crazy.
 
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Eonstar890

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Ok I’m sorry that I’m rambling on in this thread but I just have a lot of thoughts about this whole plot lol so it’s looking like whoever replaced Strelitzia is not the killer. Brain talks to Ephemer about the situation while also getting his chirithy to go find Ven and Skuld. Who’s being left out here? Lauriam. He still was the character we saw introduced directly after Strelitzia death and rn Brain seems to be gathering the other four together to discuss the imposter. It would definitely be the plot twist of the plot twist if Lauriam was the replacement especially seeing as how he has the same lineage as Strelitzia which may be significant as to why he was chosen to replace her. Just a thought but hey ya never know.
 

SuperSaiyanSora

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1. Becoming a union leader will guarantee them access to something/someone that they otherwise would not have. This could be the BoP, this could be the Ark, this could be the foretellers room / clock tower to search for secrets (but one would need to know these things exist, and how would anyone know about these unless told be a foreteller? Perhaps one discovered something upon exploring the tower previously? We know Skuld and Ephemer have been inside...)

You know, something I didn't realize until now... Remember when Ephemer disappeared suddenly, and we never saw him again until after the Keyblade War ended? His disappearance if I remember correctly happened around the same time he and Player explored the tower.


In the end, the motive that makes the most sense to me, is still #5, the intent to change fate without knowing how, which means it would have to be Ava. Yes this cutscene suggests that it wasn't her. But Nomura loves his red herrings, and all this was to pull suspicion off Ava was a statement by brain that says "I don't think the change in Union Leaders was Lady Ava's doing" this could easily end up that Brain was simply wrong.

We're on the same page. If she's willing to switch up who gets the Book, who's to say she wouldn't go any further? Let's say Ava didn't have a role in it. Then who could've possibly known who would've been chosen by the Master of Masters as a Union Leader? Unless the assailant was someone who was just knocking off random Keyblade wielders and happened to strike gold with Strelitzia, it would've had to be someone who knew she was in possession of a rulebook. And since Ava is in charge of forming the Dandelions, (her role that only she knew) and the Master of Masters was long gone by the time this was all happening...

Looking at the evidence,

Who knew Stelitzia was a union leader? the MoM, Brain (potentially if he already had the BoP at this time, but again as described above, why show the list ever if he had killed her? No one would ever find out), and Ava. She has already shown a desire to change fate by giving the book to Brain. If she wanted to really change fate, then changing the leaders was her best chance. I believe she was questioning things before the conversation with Luxu, as seen in the conversation when Brain was made a leader. After that conversation with Luxu, I believe her whole mind snapped, (with Luxu claiming she was the traitor for making Brain the man with the Book of Prophecies, which would then explain why Luxu called him the virus, even though he isn't the traitor/unexpected leader), and she lost it. She then determined to unravel the MoM's plans, took out the first leader she found, desperate to instill someone other than Strelitzia. My guess is Ven makes the most sense as he was just a random she grabbed off the street, and it would explain why a Meh wielder who isn't nearly as powerful or as successful at gathering Lux is appointed leader. It also explains why Ava would then go on to become Darkness and be so desperate to help Maleficent and the Dandelions escape back to the real world. She was desperate to undo everything she had set in motion and stop the MoM's plan.

the TLDR version of my ideas is this:

Ava is still the bad guy, she did it all to change fate without knowing what would happen, possibly explaining Darkness' statement about having read most of the BoP (reasoning being, I changed things, so I know most of what's coming, but not all)

I also agree with whomever stating that Ven being the killer will irrevocably damage the character in ways that make him unredeemable, and I just can't see Disney allowing that to take place.

Yeah, the more I'm thinking about it, the more I'm thinking it's likely that Ava killed Strelitzia. I've never subscribed to the theory that Vanitas is Darkness, because that's a little too on the nose, and generally isn't how Nomura does things. It also doesn't make sense because Vanitas was created from forcing a split between Ven's light and darkness... at the hands of Master Xehanort. If Vanitas was in existence before, how would Xehanort know about it? Unless the guy just got lucky. But then you'd have to explain how Darkness has knowledge about things they logically shouldn't, if Darkness is Vanitas. Plus yeah, who else but the Foretellers would have access to the BoP? This cutscene ALONE narrows it down to who Darkness could be, it'd have to be someone in the know, and it wouldn't even be possible for Vanitas to be in possession of the Book.

If Ven is the killer, you have to wonder what "possessed" him to go do it. What's his MO? Ven shouldn't have any sort of knowledge about the World or the fate that lies beyond the Keyblade War. So unless he's just a Jekyll-Hyde character who's a serial killer on the low... It doesn't make much sense. Because for this to be true, Ven would have to be privy to Foreteller secrets, and not just "there's a war coming and there's five Unions" secrets, because the Dandelions knew this was coming anyway. It'd have to be something MUCH bigger than that.
 

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If Ava is Darkness, or at least the one that killed Strelizia, then that solves some problems but there are some questions that need to be asked.

Why? If Strelitzia is the successor to the BoP she wouldn't have known because Ava didn't tell her, she gave it to Brain after all so if that's the case why was she killed? If Ava wanted someone else to take up the mantle, the bell started to ring right before Strelitzia's death so Ava would have had to make a new choice immediately after killing her and the newest captain would have been assigned at most a day or so before the Keyblade War started. Also Ava didn't lose faith in the plan until after Luxu told her on the last day.
Unless Strelitzia is impossibly important to the plan, why kill her out of everybody? And if her replacement isn't the killer why haven't they put it together that they are not the original choice?
 

SuperSaiyanSora

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Ok I’m sorry that I’m rambling on in this thread but I just have a lot of thoughts about this whole plot lol so it’s looking like whoever replaced Strelitzia is not the killer. Brain talks to Ephemer about the situation while also getting his chirithy to go find Ven and Skuld. Who’s being left out here? Lauriam. He still was the character we saw introduced directly after Strelitzia death and rn Brain seems to be gathering the other four together to discuss the imposter. It would definitely be the plot twist of the plot twist if Lauriam was the replacement especially seeing as how he has the same lineage as Strelitzia which may be significant as to why he was chosen to replace her. Just a thought but hey ya never know.

You're saying Lauriam isn't the killer, but he's the replacement for Strelitzia? If that's the case, that's depressing as hell lmao. Poor guy, and he doesn't even know the truth.

If Strelitzia is the successor to the BoP she wouldn't have known because Ava didn't tell her, she gave it to Brain after all so if that's the case why was she killed?

Strelitzia was never confirmed to be the original successor of the BoP if memory serves. She had a rulebook that was stolen after she was killed, but Brain always had the BoP because Ava gave it to him instead of whoever else was supposed to have it. But think about it. Who were the only ones that could've known that Strelitzia was a Union Leader at this current point in time? After the war, when she reunites with Ephemer, Skuld says herself that the identity of the Union Leaders is supposed to be a secret until the appointed time arrived that they meet at the Keyblade Graveyard. This is backed up with Ephemer's noticeable surprise seeing Skuld, and also meeting Ven for the first time there.

The Master of Masters himself decided on who would be the next five, and put Ava in charge of recruiting them, along with the Dandelions. Given those two facts, the only person that would know of the identities would be... Ava.

If Ava wanted someone else to take up the mantle, the bell started to ring right before Strelitzia's death so Ava would have had to make a new choice immediately after killing her and the newest captain would have been assigned at most a day or so before the Keyblade War started.

Well (this is just a possibility, but...), what if Ava already had someone in mind? Remember, she's choosing the Dandelions other than the Original Five. So if one gets knocked off, she can choose anyone and say, "Hey, you were chosen to be a Union Leader, so... congrats." There's no authority to challenge her on this. Notice how Strelitzia was killed in the dark, in the back of a house? Almost like she was assassinated? I think there's a reason for this. Sure, nobody wants to have their identity revealed when knocking someone off, but the whole situation is sketchy.

Also remember in all of this that's going on, she's looking for Player, because she wanted to save them from the impending doom that is the Keyblade War. I like to think that's a possible factor in all of this too. The person killed her and took her rulebook, which implies that was their goal. But going back to the original question, who would know the identities of the Union Leaders chosen by the Master of Masters? The only one I can think of would be... Ava.

Unless Strelitzia is impossibly important to the plan, why kill her out of everybody?

Continuing off what I was saying above, she was going to find Player to convince them to join the Dandelions. Player at that point didn't want to join, so Strelitzia wanted to tell them everything in order to warn them. Remember, the identities of the Union Leaders are supposed to be a secret until AFTER the Keyblade War occurs. What do you think would happen if someone didn't follow the rules? Mayhem would occur, and possibly cause events that are irreversible. My guess is? The girl was killed because she was going to cause too much problems, and say something she shouldn't have.

And if her replacement isn't the killer why haven't they put it together that they are not the original choice?

Well, this is the whole mystery they have to figure out right now. Naturally, how it's most likely gonna play out is that four of the five Union Leaders suspect the replacement is the killer because they weren't originally chosen and Strelitzia was. That's the logical conclusion. But, again, how would the replacement know about who were selected to be Union Leaders? It was supposed to be a secret. If the killer is the replacement, they would have to know information about who was chosen, where to meet, and know that they needed a rulebook. But if Ava is the killer, she can easily pass on the rulebook to another person just like she did for everyone else. It'd just be that one of the chosen is "illegitimate" due to not being chosen by the Master of Masters.
 
D

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I have a very tentative thought about the 'intermediary' that the Darkness says can reconstruct Maleficent's flesh in the future.

It reminds me a little bit of the Chirithy in the Final World in KH3. It does guide Sora to reconstruct his body, in a manner of speaking, by gathering the phantoms. I don't recall the reason why it is there in the first place being properly explained.

If you run with that, and it does come with a lot of problems, also remember the credits suggest that the Chirithy belongs to Ventus.
 

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This ark ultimately leads them back to Sora's universe/timeline.

Someone is waiting there to restore their body, so long as memories and someone who remembers you exists... Is Namine or Vexen this intermediary? Which would mean "Darkness" is either one of the org, or just Xehanort. Their involvement would help explain why Marluxia and the others would end up becoming organization members after, theoretically, getting on this ark to get to the Kh2-ish timeline...
 

Twilight Lumiair

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This ark ultimately leads them back to Sora's universe/timeline.

Someone is waiting there to restore their body, so long as memories and someone who remembers you exists... Is Namine or Vexen this intermediary? Which would mean "Darkness" is either one of the org, or just Xehanort. Their involvement would help explain why Marluxia and the others would end up becoming organization members after, theoretically, getting on this ark to get to the Kh2-ish timeline...
I'm confused how exactly you came to this conclusion. The people who remember her are the 3 Fairies at the beginning of KH2, and she spawns from her cloak, which is likely the "intermediary" itself (considering it was left behind after her disappearance in KH1). That said, one does have to wonder how her bird friend knew to bring the cloak their. Maybe they were informed by darkness(?), but that'd open a whole different can of worms.
 

ZeVaine

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I assumed you needed an intermediary to prepare your body for you, almost like a replica, and that you needed people to remember you in order to finish the job and connect the two.

But I was taking the intermediary term more literal in the sense of a individual, as oppossed to just meaning an object of your own.

So I see what you mean - as long as you have someone there to remember you and some kind of catalyst, then your body returns? Seems weird. Feel like you still need someone to restore your body... Unless Maleficent just restored her own form and not her actual body?
 

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You're saying Lauriam isn't the killer, but he's the replacement for Strelitzia? If that's the case, that's depressing as hell lmao. Poor guy, and he doesn't even know the truth.

The Master of Masters himself decided on who would be the next five, and put Ava in charge of recruiting them, along with the Dandelions. Given those two facts, the only person that would know of the identities would be... Ava.

Well (this is just a possibility, but...), what if Ava already had someone in mind? Remember, she's choosing the Dandelions other than the Original Five. So if one gets knocked off, she can choose anyone and say, "Hey, you were chosen to be a Union Leader, so... congrats." There's no authority to challenge her on this. Notice how Strelitzia was killed in the dark, in the back of a house? Almost like she was assassinated? I think there's a reason for this. Sure, nobody wants to have their identity revealed when knocking someone off, but the whole situation is sketchy.

Reading this caused another idea to enter my head. During back cover, we saw that Ava and Gula had a pretty close relationship. The Ava we have seen thus far is very against violence, wishing the war never even had to occur and doesn’t seem like a ruthless murderer that would take out Strelitzia. Gula however is a lot less emotional, and seems like He would do anything he deemed necessary to reach his goals.

Gula‘s role was to identify the traitor and stop them from doing whatever it is that is considered treacherous. One trait we know the traitor has is that they are “the one who bears the sigil” the sigil most likely being the recusant sigil aka an X, a symbol shown on Strelitzia‘s outfit.

And the house where Strelitzia is struck down is the exact same house player and Skuld talk to Gula moments before her demise.

So my theory here is that Gula strikes down Strelitzia believing that she is the traitor. At some point Ava may or may not have shared the list of new union leaders with Gula given their close relationship which could explain why he even knew who she was. Then after striking her down he returns the rulebook to Ava explaining why he did it and she is forced to pick someone else to replace her in the new five. Who should she pick? Perhaps someone closely related to Strelitzia, like her brother Lauriam.

So Lauriam believes he is supposed to be one of the five and has no idea that he actually replaced his sister. (This explains why Brain wants to talk to the other three new union leaders right after discovering who the imposter is)

This also would explain why Ava seems so shaken up during the Keyblade War having just dealt with the matter of one of her Dandelions death.
 

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I just imagined:
Maleficent will be the final boss of the game: she will attack everyone in the tower in order to find this Ark and return to the future.
The final battle will happen right next to the Ark, and it will culminate sending Skuld to Future Radient garden without memories somehow, Lauriam finds out about Strilitzia's death and dies too, becoming Marluxia. Ven will stay alive but will be sent to whenever Xehanort is his master, and Brain and Ephemer will be the only ones who will stay behind in the data world.
 

Alpha Baymax

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Skuld is the only other character that has the same eye colour as Xehanort (when Xehanort was tempted into Darkness). I don't think that's a stylistic coincidence...

Or maybe the killer is a red-herring nobody guessed like Demyx's somebody because Nomura lol.
 

FudgemintGuardian

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Or maybe the killer is a red-herring nobody guessed like Demyx's somebody because Nomura lol.
Demyx and Luxord still haven't appeared despite allegedly being from the Chi-era, and I swear if one of them is the killer then I'll swear!
 

Ballad of Caius

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Demyx and Luxord still haven't appeared despite allegedly being from the Chi-era, and I swear if one of them is the killer then I'll swear!
Luxord and Demyx killed Streritzia in order to put Ventus in there. That makes Ven part of a trio with Demyx and Luxord: a trio of blondies.
 

LightUpTheSky452

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As happy as I maybe am about this "intermediary" stuff, that might explain how Maleficent came back, how Kairi magicked Sora a body, Final World stuff, and whatever else (I've seen some think this might show how Naminé came out of almost nothing, and that would be cool)... I wish it wasn't called that (though I know this is a fan translation--and an awesome one, at that:)--thank you for said translation, guys), because I remember when we were talking about intermediaries for Keyblades: like when Roxas had to use a stick to summon Kingdom Key. Oh well.
 

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Skuld is the only other character that has the same eye colour as Xehanort (when Xehanort was tempted into Darkness). I don't think that's a stylistic coincidence...

Skuld's eyes are brown though, right? Or at least that's how they were depicted in the novel color. I guess you could argue they might be kind of amber-ish in the game, but the graphics make it hard to tell.
 

SuperSaiyanSora

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Reading this caused another idea to enter my head. During back cover, we saw that Ava and Gula had a pretty close relationship. The Ava we have seen thus far is very against violence, wishing the war never even had to occur and doesn’t seem like a ruthless murderer that would take out Strelitzia. Gula however is a lot less emotional, and seems like He would do anything he deemed necessary to reach his goals.

Gula‘s role was to identify the traitor and stop them from doing whatever it is that is considered treacherous. One trait we know the traitor has is that they are “the one who bears the sigil” the sigil most likely being the recusant sigil aka an X, a symbol shown on Strelitzia‘s outfit.

And the house where Strelitzia is struck down is the exact same house player and Skuld talk to Gula moments before her demise.

So my theory here is that Gula strikes down Strelitzia believing that she is the traitor. At some point Ava may or may not have shared the list of new union leaders with Gula given their close relationship which could explain why he even knew who she was. Then after striking her down he returns the rulebook to Ava explaining why he did it and she is forced to pick someone else to replace her in the new five. Who should she pick? Perhaps someone closely related to Strelitzia, like her brother Lauriam.

So Lauriam believes he is supposed to be one of the five and has no idea that he actually replaced his sister. (This explains why Brain wants to talk to the other three new union leaders right after discovering who the imposter is)

This also would explain why Ava seems so shaken up during the Keyblade War having just dealt with the matter of one of her Dandelions death.

It's a possibility, but then that would be a huge mistake on Ava's part because just like the Master predicted, it would cause trouble. If Ava and Gula are both responsible, then both of them are directly the cause of what's happening right now.

Strelitzia having the "recusant's sigil" plus also wanting to expose secrets that only a Union Leader should know... I could see why he's thinking "Traitor". But then again, this is under the assumption that Ava would've told him, and I can't help but think why? I would think that the Master forbade her from telling anyone besides the selected Union Leaders for this exact reason. If she did, that was the worst thing she could've done.
 
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