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(SPOILERS) Union X: Shift Pride & Meeting ??????



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Luminary

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No, because I'm stubborn and have been dealing with this nonsense all day after pulling an all-nighter for this damn video. I have unshakable confidence in goldpanner and I'm choosing to die on the hill of Strelitzia being Lauriam's sister.

But overall, the reception from what I've seen is: Japanese players are leaning Lauriam, western players are leaning Elrena.

Yeah, if Japanese players are leaning towards Lauriam, then that’s probably the intent. But hopefully we’ll find out more next month. Unless they decide to take another year long break from the Union Leaders. I hope we still have at least one more month of main story content before going back into Disney stuff.
 
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Sign

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Yeah, if Japanese players are leaning towards Lauriam, then that’s probably the intent. But hopefully we’ll find out more next month. Unless they decide to take another year long break from the Union Leaders. Lol

I will 100% blame you in the event this happens.
 

Zettaflare

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At this rate I wouldnt be shocked if Demyx and Luxord came from the Chi timeline as well. Luxord especially since he can manipulate time as his element.
 

DraceEmpressa

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I woke up this morning to loads of sister fanart. Came here, read the translations, and became neutral. I'm not exactly a professional at deciphering Japanese, but I thought people these days knew Japanese -> English is not always one to one and some things are left ambiguous or could be confusing. There's that error in KH2 where Roxas asks Sora why "he" chose him or something, it happens.

I don't know where the user got it, but someone posted some concept art of Strelitzia concept art and a lot of the potential outfits resembles Marluxia. (I still am not sure where this is from, so could be BS).

tumblr_pilm56lhAW1qiqq21_1280.jpg


I'm kinda convinced she is Marly's little sister, but if it's the other way around, that's ok too. People make too much of a deal of this honestly.


At twitter? or Tumblr? Pixiv?

The hairstyle for K and the clothes for E seems to be the most similar to Marluxia indeed....
 

Luminary

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Imagine if Strelitzia’s death is what ultimately leads to the war of the x-blade. Lauriam and Elrena could try to get it to access Kingdom Hearts and bring Strelitzia back, putting them at odds with her real murderer and the other Union Leaders who wouldn’t want anyone to access Kingdom Hearts.
 

Luminary

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In the grand scheme of things, it won’t matter who killed who or who’s kin to who. All that matters to me is the upcoming scene where Lauriam introduces Elrena to hair gel.

How has no one thought that Elrena is the one who killed Strelitzia? Totally fits her character.

I thought about that. But she would have to be working with one of the Union Leaders since one of them had to replace Strelitzia.
 

kirabook

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Oh right, something many people pointed out when Strelitzia was first introduced. Her hair clips are literally XI, #11, which is Marluxia's rank in the organization. Originally this was evidence tying them together to say he was the killer, but it could mean they're actually family and that was a hint.
 

Alpha Baymax

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No, because I'm stubborn and have been dealing with this nonsense all day after pulling an all-nighter for this damn video. I have unshakable confidence in goldpanner and I'm choosing to die on the hill of Strelitzia being Lauriam's sister.

But overall, the reception from what I've seen is: Japanese players are leaning Lauriam, western players are leaning Elrena.

At this point in time, I'm willing to wait for the next story update before getting a definitive conclusion as to who's sister Strelitzia really is.

I remember the days when everybody was crying foul that Brain was a translation error, so I'm cautious. I'm still willing to stick with Elrena because they share the same iris colour, and Larxene's designation in Arendelle.

But hey, if I am wrong then I'm wrong.
 

Sephiroth0812

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There's no way you can do that without making the translation poor or omitting the sister part entirely. Lauriam specifically refers to someone's sister, and English requires a pronoun attached to it. Something like "I want to ask you something about sister" doesn't work.

See, I'm not seeing any confusion because the people who accept the Lauriam translation are finding no issue. It's the people who refuse to budge from Elrena that are causing problems.

Agreed, "I want to ask about sister" only works if the one asking the question is asking about a nun as in "sister Anna" or something similar but then the name has to be attached immediately afterwards.

If the Japanese fans, who are actually speaking and writing the damn language themselves, are not confused about it then why is there even a debate about it?

What's not helping is that in accepting that she and Lauriam are siblings, it requires letting go of the possibility that he murdered her, and everyone's been stewing on that for well over a year.

IDK people are just so set in their ways. The whole Elrena sister thing was debunked in a matter of hours; it's crazy how invested they got in that. Reminds me a whole lot of the Xionnort situation pre-TGS.



If Lauriam is the elder brother, it wouldn't be too farfetched to assume he is somewhat aware of who his little sister is acquainted with.

The question is if that is really a requirement? Since when is one sibling murdering another an alien concept? We have no context yet as to why Lauriam is conducting this search in the first place. Just because we have the possible brother/sister dynamic now doesn't mean we can actually discern all his intentions and feelings.

Then again, I've thought in general about the possibility that Strelitzia's killer, whoever it is, possibly can't even remember they killed her due to either
a) being controlled by someone else while doing the deed just like Terra was by Maleficent in BBS when stealing Aurora's heart and having the memory wiped afterwards.
b) the deed being a dark one which happened in the old world it being possibly erased by the Spirits whose task is to help the Dandelions forget about tragedy, it isn't sure that the spirits remove only memories in regards to the war itself.
or c) being directly possessed by someone and not really "awake" during the incident cuz why should Xehanort have a monopoly on the possession route?

The net seems in general prone these days to quickly attach to some concept or theory and then refuse to let go if it is debunked or simply made obsolete by newer information.
In the realms of Tumblr etc. the whole Xionnort-issue is still a thing in some circles, especially since that shot of the 13 seekers standing on the not-Arc the Triomphe in the Pooh-Trailer.

In this specific case though I could imagine that some people prefer the Larxene/Strelitzia dynamic because it would make Strelitzia's death a catalyst for the development/backstory of a female character instead of the usual "stuffed into the fridge"-trope to facilitate development/backtory for a male one.
The whole Frozen-parallels are just the icing on the cake for that.

I woke up this morning to loads of sister fanart. Came here, read the translations, and became neutral. I'm not exactly a professional at deciphering Japanese, but I thought people these days knew Japanese -> English is not always one to one and some things are left ambiguous or could be confusing. There's that error in KH2 where Roxas asks Sora why "he" chose him or something, it happens.

I don't know where the user got it, but someone posted some concept art of Strelitzia concept art and a lot of the potential outfits resembles Marluxia. (I still am not sure where this is from, so could be BS).

tumblr_pilm56lhAW1qiqq21_1280.jpg


I'm kinda convinced she is Marly's little sister, but if it's the other way around, that's ok too. People make too much of a deal of this honestly.

Eh, that whole thing with Roxas in KH 2 also still raises debates in some corners of the fandom up to this day so I am not surprised much.

There have been comparisons of Larxene's knives to the petals of the Strelitzia flower so in terms of visual parallels and hints both factions have ammunition to spent.

Why would Marluxia be looking for Strelitzia if he's the one that murdered her? Why would he be looking for her sister? To murder her too?

We all jumped to the conclusion that it must have been Marly that killed Strelitzia, but I think even that is questionable now. It makes a heap of sense for Marly to have been looking for Strelitzia and his apparent confusion as to why he hasn't found her yet if they're brother and sister. If Elrena is just Strelitzia's friend, it'd make sense why Marly is kinda unfamiliar with her but still comes to question her about it.

I guess I side more with it being Marly's little sister because murder aside, him looking for her and trying to get information about her makes sense, while I can't think of a reason why Marly would still be investigating Strelitzia knowing she was murdered (and no one would know except him if he did it)

It could be the other way around, I know people have big fantasies about it tying into Frozen, but out of this mess of a plot twist, I feel like Marly being a big bro here is the most logical.

That is a good question and one that can't be answered because we don't know why Lauriam is doing all this nor what his intentions are. That he's automatically out of the question as the culprit because Strelitzia may be his sister is a little premature I'd say.

To tie up loose ends or check if there is anything "in the data" that could possibly expose him for example, but that's all conjecture since we don't know his intentions and reasons so far.
 

DarkosOverlord

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All day yesterday I also found out many people are clamoring for Elrena to be the sister because of the Arendelle parallel.
I... think we got this backwards and assume something that isn't a proof to be a proof.
Now, there's still a chunk of probability they are sisters and in that case yes, it's a good parallel, but it doesn't HAVE to be.
I think some got a little bit too excited about Vanitas using children energy in Monsters Inc and are now in belief that every Nort will fulfill the themes of the Disney world they're in.

Except Xigbar doesn't really have that much in common with Olympus, I think we established Young isn't a toy yet he's in Toy Story, and as of now we have no proof Luxord is a pirate. Oh, and no Org member in KH II was "in tune" with the worlds they visited.
So yeah. Cute parallel if it does happen, but it's not proof.

Why would Marluxia be looking for Strelitzia if he's the one that murdered her? Why would he be looking for her sister? To murder her too?

YES. Way too few people are asking themselves that.
If Lizzie was Lauriam's sister, he didn't kill her. Like, maybe he still did, but... it's just a hunch, I don't think Nomura will introduce sibling murder just yet.
If Lizzie was Elrena's sister, and he was the killer, there's absolutely no reason for him to go to such lenghts in tracking down the sister of his victim only to say "Hey remember your sister?"
It would be shadier and creepier than anything Brain is saying, and that's saying something. Like, I know a killer comes back to their crime and all, but come on.

So unless the killer is a third party (possible, but I don't see adding another character to this subplot as a good idea) it only makes logical sense that Lauriam is the brother.

How has no one thought that Elrena is the one who killed Strelitzia? Totally fits her character.

The third thing I said.
 

Alpha Baymax

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All day yesterday I also found out many people are clamoring for Elrena to be the sister because of the Arendelle parallel.

I... think we got this backwards and assume something that isn't a proof to be a proof. Now, there's still a chunk of probability they are sisters and in that case yes, it's a good parallel, but it doesn't HAVE to be.

I think some got a little bit too excited about Vanitas using children energy in Monsters Inc and are now in belief that every Nort will fulfill the themes of the Disney world they're in.

Except Xigbar doesn't really have that much in common with Olympus, I think we established Young isn't a toy yet he's in Toy Story, and as of now we have no proof Luxord is a pirate. Oh, and no Org member in KH II was "in tune" with the worlds they visited.

So yeah. Cute parallel if it does happen, but it's not proof.

Xigbar fits Olympus because he fought the heroes Terra, Ventus and Aqua, and all three of them have visited Olympus. Hercules is about being a hero.

Young Xehanort represents Xehanort in his youth, the Toys in Toy Story are powered by the imagination of young people.

Luxord can arguably be a British archetype hence his reocurrence in The Caribbean, a world involving the British Empire.

Now in the event that Lauriam is indeed the brother to Strelitzia, Larxene could be in Arendelle because of her codename of being a Savage Nymph, and Nymphs reside in mountains.

Basically, what I'm getting at is that the Organization XIII memeber placed in each Disney world still links to the theme of said Disney world regardless of how strong the correlation is.
 

DarkosOverlord

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That's... really stretching it man.

Literally anyone fought "heroes" who visited Olympus at this point, if we consider TAV to be heroes just cause (like, they weren't even made heroes in the "Hercules way" like SDG were in KH II. Ven didn't even enter a tournament ever.)
Xigbar is merely a villain who fought good guys, that's not Hercules' exclusive. Hercules is about being a hero, and Xigbar is furthest away from what this theme represents.

Young is way past the age of toys and was never shown to be the type of person interested in them. I definitely don't associate "young man in his twenties obsessed with the outside world" when I think about toys.

Luxord is a... British archetype? Because he's a... gambler? That's quite the only character trait we have about him, and I wouldn't link that as a surefire proof of being linked to Pirates even despite every Pirate product having gambling in one way or another. If that's about the way Robin Atkin Downes talks, since he comes from London, then I imagine the Japanese audience being incredibly confused about this connection.

Like, by this reasoning Larxene would still fit in Arendelle anyway because she's tied to Lauriam who has a sister and sisterhood is the main theme of Frozen. I can't help but think the connections should be much more fleshed out than this.
 

kirabook

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That is a good question and one that can't be answered because we don't know why Lauriam is doing all this nor what his intentions are. That he's automatically out of the question as the culprit because Strelitzia may be his sister is a little premature I'd say.

To tie up loose ends or check if there is anything "in the data" that could possibly expose him for example, but that's all conjecture since we don't know his intentions and reasons so far.

It's still entirely possible he murdered her, it's just in either case, I'm trying to figure out what exactly he'd need from anyone else regarding her situation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a while, but didn't the murderer trick her into the dark room pretending to be the player?

They knew Strelitzia wanted to be friends with the player.

They knew Master Ava was handing out rule books to future leaders

They knew the world was about to end and didn't fight

They knew the leaders would meet up post war in the graveyard

It seems to me the murderer knew a heck of a lot not only about Strelitzia, but Ava's whole plan. I know we don't know yet, but I am very much stuck on the question of... if Laurium is the killer and he already knew all these intricate details about Strelitzia... why has he been looking for her or Elrena to ask about her?

If he's the murderer, he succeeded. He's a leader now in the new world and can do what he wants. No one is suspicious him. None of them even know who Strelitzia is. If he's the murderer, why would he be asking around for her knowing she's dead?

Unless he forgot he murdered her, I just get the impression that he doesn't know she's dead. Hew knew she was a dandelion and has been looking for her, but can't find her (cause she's dead), so he starts asking around about her.

Which also leads me to question if he's not her brother or the murderer, why would he be asking around about her.
 

Sephiroth0812

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From the trailers it comes over more like Young Xehanort is representing Xehanort's overall curiosity and willingness to experiment without caring for possible negative consequences in the Toy box world.

He literally says to Sora at one point he can't let him leave yet because he hasn't observed enough.
The theme seems to be more that Xehanort sees everything and everyone as being a toy to experiment with and observe what happens.

Young Xehanort creates situations and scenarios (like splitting the world), throws Sora & co. as well as the living toys in and then stands back and watches what happens.

It can even be interpreted as a flip side to the "everything can gain/develop a heart"-mantra introduced in DDD. If everything, even objects and things like toys (or puppets) can gain a heart then you can also treat them all the same, as expendable resources to be spent reaching your own ambitions.
Just like Pete dismisses Data-Sora as "just data" in Re: Coded, the question about the value of a heart and what it actually is gets brought up again with Sora's and Xehanort's approach clashing directly this time.

Edit:
It's still entirely possible he murdered her, it's just in either case, I'm trying to figure out what exactly he'd need from anyone else regarding her situation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a while, but didn't the murderer trick her into the dark room pretending to be the player?

They knew Strelitzia wanted to be friends with the player.

They knew Master Ava was handing out rule books to future leaders

They knew the world was about to end and didn't fight

They knew the leaders would meet up post war in the graveyard

It seems to me the murderer knew a heck of a lot not only about Strelitzia, but Ava's whole plan. I know we don't know yet, but I am very much stuck on the question of... if Laurium is the killer and he already knew all these intricate details about Strelitzia... why has he been looking for her or Elrena to ask about her?

If he's the murderer, he succeeded. He's a leader now in the new world and can do what he wants. No one is suspicious him. None of them even know who Strelitzia is. If he's the murderer, why would he be asking around for her knowing she's dead?

Unless he forgot he murdered her, I just get the impression that he doesn't know she's dead. Hew knew she was a dandelion and has been looking for her, but can't find her (cause she's dead), so he starts asking around about her.

Which also leads me to question if he's not her brother or the murderer, why would he be asking around about her.

Hmm, good points.

Now that you mention it, while we don't know exactly how much the killer knows they definitely knew quite a lot about the ongoing issues with the leaders and the rule books.

In this vein, it seems that the killer knows even more than the future leaders themselves as it was shown (in Ephemer's and Strelitzia's case) and mentioned (in Ven's case) that the leaders themselves didn't know they are chosen to be leaders until Ava actually approached them and gave them the green rule book.
For the killer to be able to so meticulously plan the whole murder thing ahead and then act accordingly to the new Dandelion leader's orders (which they shouldn't know if Ava never approached them and explained it like in Ephemer's, Strelitzia's and Ven's cases) they must have known about the whole procedure before Ava informed the soon-to-be leaders about their future duties!

Could it thus be that the "traitor" the Foretellers were searching for and the murderer of Strelitzia are one and the same?

Do we know that no one knows who Strelitzia is? It was mentioned that she participated in several parties and if she was a Dandelion she would be present for at least some of their training lessons overseen by Ava.
So the possibility that something could be digged up and rain into someone's parade is still up in the air.
I'm not really insisting that Lauriam IS the murderer nor do I definitely say he ISN'T. In my view the overall level of information is still too low to definitely rule out anyone or accuse anyone.

The only ones I personally completely rule out are Ephemer and Skuld since Strelitzia's murder happened in the old world shortly before the war and during that time Ephemer was already in the "Unchained" realm setting things up and Skuld was hanging around with the Player.
 
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ImVentus

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That's... really stretching it man.

Literally anyone fought "heroes" who visited Olympus at this point, if we consider TAV to be heroes just cause (like, they weren't even made heroes in the "Hercules way" like SDG were in KH II. Ven didn't even enter a tournament ever.)
Xigbar is merely a villain who fought good guys, that's not Hercules' exclusive. Hercules is about being a hero, and Xigbar is furthest away from what this theme represents.

Young is way past the age of toys and was never shown to be the type of person interested in them. I definitely don't associate "young man in his twenties obsessed with the outside world" when I think about toys.

Luxord is a... British archetype? Because he's a... gambler? That's quite the only character trait we have about him, and I wouldn't link that as a surefire proof of being linked to Pirates even despite every Pirate product having gambling in one way or another. If that's about the way Robin Atkin Downes talks, since he comes from London, then I imagine the Japanese audience being incredibly confused about this connection.

Like, by this reasoning Larxene would still fit in Arendelle anyway because she's tied to Lauriam who has a sister and sisterhood is the main theme of Frozen. I can't help but think the connections should be much more fleshed out than this.

I agree.
Speaking for myself, this is a sole reason as to why I find so many dismiss other IPS that they find similar to the worlds distinction. In the end I find that to be a little hypocritical, especially since it's either the (looking for a property that connects with a box) or some vessel revisiting a world they already been to. The whole idea of just adding a world for a sake of introduction without influence from Xehanort, has been dismissed since Marluxia's involvement in Kingdom of Corona. There's also room for some non-Xehanort influenced picks to choose from.
But now with the game so near release, everyone is desperate to find out what remains as the new hot Disney IP. I've gotten tired of the guessing game by this point and just accept whatever is left or have been shown.
 

kirabook

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Hmm, good points.

Now that you mention it, while we don't know exactly how much the killer knows they definitely knew quite a lot about the ongoing issues with the leaders and the rule books.

In this vein, it seems that the killer knows even more than the future leaders themselves as it was shown (in Ephemer's and Strelitzia's case) and mentioned (in Ven's case) that the leaders themselves didn't know they are chosen to be leaders until Ava actually approached them and gave them the green rule book.
For the killer to be able to so meticulously plan the whole murder thing ahead and then act accordingly to the new Dandelion leader's orders (which they shouldn't know if Ava never approached them and explained it like in Ephemer's, Strelitzia's and Ven's cases) they must have known about the whole procedure before Ava informed the soon-to-be leaders about their future duties!

Could it thus be that the "traitor" the Foretellers were searching for and the murderer of Strelitzia are one and the same?

Do we know that no one knows who Strelitzia is? It was mentioned that she participated in several parties and if she was a Dandelion she would be present for at least some of their training lessons overseen by Ava.
So the possibility that something could be digged up and rain into someone's parade is still up in the air.
I'm not really insisting that Lauriam IS the murderer nor do I definitely say he ISN'T. In my view the overall level of information is still too low to definitely rule out anyone or accuse anyone.

The only ones I personally completely rule out are Ephemer and Skuld since Strelitzia's murder happened in the old world shortly before the war and during that time Ephemer was already in the "Unchained" realm setting things up and Skuld was hanging around with the Player.

This is partially why I don't think Ven is the killer (though some people are starting to cling to that idea too, to each their own). The murderer meticulously planned this out and knew a heck of a lot. They're currently chilling in their new position with little to no worries. (Or a third party murdered Strelitzia and gave the rulebook and instructions to one of them pretending to be Ava)

Of course, anything is possible. Marly could still be the killer. It's just his behavior right now is a little weird.

By no one knows Strelitzia, I mean like Ephemera and Skuld and the likes. They didn't know who would be leader until they arrived
 

Sephiroth0812

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This is partially why I don't think Ven is the killer (though some people are starting to cling to that idea too, to each their own). The murderer meticulously planned this out and knew a heck of a lot. They're currently chilling in their new position with little to no worries. (Or a third party murdered Strelitzia and gave the rulebook and instructions to one of them pretending to be Ava)

Of course, anything is possible. Marly could still be the killer. It's just his behavior right now is a little weird.

By no one knows Strelitzia, I mean like Ephemera and Skuld and the likes. They didn't know who would be leader until they arrived

Well, objectively spoken Ven cannot be definitely ruled out but I find it to be quite farfetched. He is simply not ruthless enough to deliberately commit a murder.
Even before his darkness is forcibly removed and personified as Vanitas there are numerous accounts of other people, including Xehanort, Lauriam, Skuld, Ephemer and Blaine who attest how much of a kind and benign yet hesitant and meek person Ventus is.
Xehanort even calls him too benign for his own good.

The current update shows that he's even already upset at the thought of Keyblade Wielders fighting each other just in a competitive manner so I don't know where the supposed ability and mindset for "I'm going to kill an innocent girl I don't even know" is to come from.
One cannot really pull up Vanitas as a comparison or "proof" since Vanitas' personality and views as well as his high penchant for unrestricted violence come mainly from his four year upbringing under Xehanort and the fact that his heart is pure darkness with not an inch of light to provide at least a small source of restriction or balance.

X-era Ven doesn't have that.

Of course anything is still possible, that's why I refrain to name any specific person to be "most likely or definitely" the killer. The possible scenarios surrounding it as well as possible curveballs are still too many to make even an educated guess.
The whole third party murdering Strelitzia and then giving the rule book to one of the five while posing as Ava is also still a valid possibility as I don't think Ava is the only one capable of shapeshifting to impersonate someone else.

Yep, exactly, no one knew who the other leaders would be but regular Dandelions also shouldn't know who the intended five are going to be.
Heck, Ephemer says in the first meeting of them at the Foreteller's tower they should pretend to the regular Dandelions that the Foretellers are still there running things so the regulars aren't even aware there is a change in leadership.
Yet Strelitzia's assailant does know that she is one of the chosen five which shouldn't be known to either the Dandelions nor the future leaders so it is possible the culprit not only being none of the five but also not even being a Dandelion.
 
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