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(SPOILERS) Union X: Breath of Darkness



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KeybladeLordSora

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I must be honest, I'm a little bothered that people watched this cutscene and still believe Ven pulled the trigger/is evil and killed Strelitzia. How much more obvious could it be that not only was he controlled, but it seems he didn't even lift a finger or do anything to Strelitzia at all, he was just there to witness it?
I mean, this is the same fandom that still treats Roxas, Namine, and Xion as Nobodies/artificial beings/lol Sortas despite the fact that all three of them were basically their own persons from the start so I'm not surprised that people would die on the "Ven killed Strelly" hill.
 

Sign

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I must be honest, I'm a little bothered that people watched this cutscene and still believe Ven pulled the trigger/is evil and killed Strelitzia. How much more obvious could it be that not only was he controlled, but it seems he didn't even lift a finger or do anything to Strelitzia at all, he was just there to witness it?

Some people are just intentionally obtuse, yet they'll bitch about how this story is convoluted and up its own ass.
 

yuyayuzu

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Does dark chirithy only appear if someone is totally consumed by darkness? If someone is just possesed, their Chirithy wont become dark? And when I relook at the scene, I become not sure if the darkness is behind Ventus or possesing Ven. When it attacks Strelitizia, it seems like that the darkness is behind Ven and Ven just seems to be hypnotized
 

Dast

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It's strange to think of it being possible to defeat the darkness, and there being a personifcation of darkness when Dark Road is pushing the idea that 'darkness lurks in the pit of everyone's hearts'. I'm interested to see how this Darkness and the MoM's plan relate to the darkness in people's hearts.
 

Idreamaboutcats

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Well, at least we know it is an incorporeal thing, and obviously has been around for a very long time, and can take on the form of humans and possibly monsters, not to mention possess people.
 

Dast

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My point here is: the Master of Masters may be waiting for a perfect point in time where darkness is concentrated in a singular place, person or entity and he will use whoever it is that had enough light in order to banish it forever. The way that he says that he will discard the borders of the world makes me think that it was his plan all along to seek someone like Xehanort in order to corrupt the worlds with darkness.

I think the MoM's endgame is to fill the Realm of Light with darkness and purge it all in one shot, meaning that Xehanort's vision in KHIII is the MoM's plan.
This is really interesting and It makes me think about how Xehanort is described as a 'scapegoat'. In the Bible, the scapegoat was a goat that took on all the sins of the Israelites so maybe Xehanort was supposed to take on the world's darkness.

I can't wait to see more of Luxu in UX because one thing that still really bugs me is how little Xigbar apparently cares about Ventus in the present day. I think it's possible that he doesn't know about the darkness inside Ven from Re Mind so if the MoM manages to create a world free of darkness and Ven is in it then there could be a problem.
 

Sephiroth0812

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Well, in theory we have both Daybreak Town and the Keyblade Graveyard as locations, but what the Graveyard actually is is pretty unclear, since Daybreak turned into Scala instead of KG. I know it's been speculated that the KG is actually a remnant of a different "Keyblade War" but we do see Luxu watching it in 0.2, so even the main "Keyblade War" we know of we're missing some pieces.
There can be dozens of locations we don't yet know of. There is also the possibility that some worlds, including the Keyblade Graveyard, exist in every possible worldline but due to being wastelands the audience can't really get a visual clue which Keyblade Graveyard is shown right now or the KG is a sort of hub connected to multiple worldlines just like Daybreak/Scala.

This actually makes a lot of sense and such a nomura thing to do.
Yea, we haven't yet seen how the great battle in Browser-Chi actually ended, what each of the Foretellers took in terms of actions and what happened to all the Lux collected.

Scala is pretty confirmed to be the ruins of Daybreak Town. I too remember Nomura briefly mentioning it. Even with "death of the author", there's the mural in Scala depicting "broken" Daybreak Town turning into Scala PLUS the fight in KH3 with the ruined tower under the water (which again, is exactly what the mural was depicting)

I must be honest, I'm a little bothered that people watched this cutscene and still believe Ven pulled the trigger/is evil and killed Strelitzia. How much more obvious could it be that not only was he controlled, but it seems he didn't even lift a finger or do anything to Strelitzia at all, he was just there to witness it?
The current update is just the start of the final chapter so Daybreak getting ruined is still up the alley, or rather, maybe the "real" Daybreak already is in ruins from the events of the original browser chi and we just didn't see it yet because we were always only privy to the simulation.

It is clearly seen that Darkness is hovering behind Ventus the entire time and that his eyes are glazed over like in trance. In fact it reminds me somewhat of both how in Coded the data bugs and/or Pete were controlling Data-Riku and the flashbacks in BBS when Xehanort brings Ven to Land of Departure while his heart is still damaged. He's limply following Xehanort there which is not much different to what happens here, only with Darkness in Xehanort's role.

It is also worth pointing out that Darkness did not use Ven's body like a puppet to perform the killing blow but that it soared forward from behind over Ven like a snake lashing out.
In Re:Mind, Darkness states to Sora that Ventus is "too pure" and should be left alone (it literally says "leave him be"), he wouldn't be that anymore if he actually had innocent blood on his hands so maybe that's why Darkness did the deed by itself.

As to why it brought Ven along it could be because of urgency, as Darkness immediately shapeshifts into Ava to perform the whole making Ven a leader charade.
The only action Ventus himself did beyond following Darkness around was picking up the rulebook.
But like Sign said, some people just want to stick with their headcanons and refuse to acknowledge actual canon.
It doesn't really surprise me during a time/era where some people even refuse to acknowledge actual reality in real life.

The much more unsettling thing however is that eventually we would have to re-examine Back Cover and the original browser-chi to check every instance any of the Foretellers appear as at any time one of them might actually be Darkness using its shapeshifting powers.
If Darkness isn't Ava herself, of course.
It makes me wonder if the Coaty Ephemer met in Browser Chi while sneaking into the Foreteller's tower was actually Darkness and not Luxu or the MoM?


I wouldn't say Racism at all. Unlike racism Darkness is something within (mostly) everybody and people under it's influence continuously do horrible and evil things. This isn't to say that it can't be used for good, but there is a real and present danger associated with Darkness which is why people like Eraqus who have a great fear of Darkness aren't entirely wrong. Though his fear was partially because of already having a friend fall to Darkness before. I think you could say it's like having a gun. Anyone can have a gun. You can use the gun for good or ill, but people will obviously distance themselves from people who have it, and some will even disdain the wielder.

Exactly, that's something I and some others have been stating for years.
Being wary of Darkness (the element) and approaching it with caution as well as rejecting and battling instances where it causes such massive harm is not any form of racism.

There seems to be this misconception that Darkness and Light must be treated and handled completely equal and the same which is an invitation to disaster since by now it has been made clear that the element Darkness has many more dangerous properties which can cause more damage easier than Light does.

The element being part of the natural order and impossible to completely eradicate does not mean it can just be treated as any other element. Dangerous things do have to be kept in check and fenced in far enough to minimize damage.
This is actually exactly what Ansem SoD criticizes Riku for in DDD:
Ansem SoD said:
After all your efforts to command the darkness and protect those you cherish, it is a shame you
locked that power away in the end.
Of course Ansem wants Riku to "set the Darkness free" again in order to "save" Sora but he has nothing of that and instead tells Ansem he'll "consume the Darkness, return it to light".


Does dark chirithy only appear if someone is totally consumed by darkness? If someone is just possesed, their Chirithy wont become dark? And when I relook at the scene, I become not sure if the darkness is behind Ventus or possesing Ven. When it attacks Strelitizia, it seems like that the darkness is behind Ven and Ven just seems to be hypnotized
As far as I remember the [Player] never was consumed by Darkness yet their Dark Chirithy did manifest and in fact acted largely independent from [Player] and even their normal Chirithy. [Players] normal Chirithy was still around and even bickering with the dark one.


In Back Cover, the MoM did say that Chirithys can turn dark, but [Player] actually has two Chirithys.
The question here would be if every Keyblade Kid/wielder can have two Chirithys or if [Player] is a special case.

We do not even know yet if there is just one or multiple Dark Chirithys around, yet the one belonging to [Player] did say they would meet again so it is definitely still around in some form.


It's strange to think of it being possible to defeat the darkness, and there being a personifcation of darkness when Dark Road is pushing the idea that 'darkness lurks in the pit of everyone's hearts'. I'm interested to see how this Darkness and the MoM's plan relate to the darkness in people's hearts.

"Defeat" does not necessarily have to mean total eradication but can also point towards a status where the darkness cannot get a hold on hearts and people anymore so the constant horrible things done by/with it can stop.
Riku's statement of "consuming Darkness, returning it to light" from DDD might possibly be a hint towards the correct way.

It is also still probable that this being which calls itself "Darkness" is not a personification of the natural element darkness itself. Ansem after all wasn't Ansem at all.
The character "Darkness" may actually have a true name and just uses this one as a title/pseudonym.

This is really interesting and It makes me think about how Xehanort is described as a 'scapegoat'. In the Bible, the scapegoat was a goat that took on all the sins of the Israelites so maybe Xehanort was supposed to take on the world's darkness.

I can't wait to see more of Luxu in UX because one thing that still really bugs me is how little Xigbar apparently cares about Ventus in the present day. I think it's possible that he doesn't know about the darkness inside Ven from Re Mind so if the MoM manages to create a world free of darkness and Ven is in it then there could be a problem.

It is a bit wonky though since most of the darkness and the damage we get to see in the series does not come from the worlds but Xehanort himself.
Xehanort is the one who throws everything out of whack and who causes more than 90% of the current traumas and pain, either directly by himself or indirectly by manipulating others like Maleficent. Much of the chaos Maleficent causes like i.e. invading Radiant Garden one year after BBS was only possible because of initial information Xehanort gave her.

Xehanort is indeed called a scapegoat, but I am not sure that we know yet for what exactly.
Regardless of this though, every heinous thing Xehanort committed of his own free will without being controlled/possessed is something he's personally guilty for since he had the power and free will to chose not committing said deeds.

This is not only Luxu but a general thing with KH III because it is again a Sora-show. There's also no reaction or anything in regards to or from Ven when it comes to the Light from the past and Ephemer appearing to Sora instead of him.

We do know that Luxu/Xigbar has something with Ven though as apart from KH III he does often get reminded and comments on the "Angry look" and in 358/2 Days he sees Xion as Ventus while stating as much in the secret reports.
In KH2FM it's also him who starts talking about the "other chamber" which contains Ven's body and soul and he does seem to have a sort of interest in both Roxas and Sora who each are closely connected to Ven.
 

yuyayuzu

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To be honest I am still on the impression that Gula is involved somehow although I don't have a tangible theory yet on how.
I do have a hunch that Gula and Ven might be connected somehow, perhaps another sibling pair with Gula being the older brother?
A bit farfetched at the moment I know, yet I recently re-watched Back Cover and noticed Gula's pants under his robes:
View attachment 12954
They do look a little similar to Ven's and after now writing about Ven's self-esteem issues and his diffident outlock I realized that this could come as well from a) Gula and Ven being on their own and thus Gula technically being Ven's Guardian, b) Ven often left to himself because Gula is busy with Foreteller stuff, the Lost Page and similar stuff and c) being exposed to Gula's increasingly erratic and despairing behavior including the whole "Trust only yourself"-stuff. Ventus is a 12year old kid who is shown to on the inside wanting to have friends and be social, the exact opposite of what Gula is. If Ven gets increasingly exposed to Gula's rather toxic viewpoints in the rare cases he's around he would certainly start to doubt himself and be "a loner" because that's what his big brother is too and despite himself not liking it, it is the closest role model he has.

Well, if it is true that Gula is Ven's brother , it may explain why Ven is resistant to cold while Skuld is saying she is not good with the cold
And I think just like Gula and Ven, Skuld and Ava may also be siblings because I always wonder why in one of the magazine, it is specifically stated that Skuld gives similar vibes to Ava but yeah it is just a far-fetched theory

As far as I remember the [Player] never was consumed by Darkness yet their Dark Chirithy did manifest and in fact acted largely independent from [Player] and even their normal Chirithy. [Players] normal Chirithy was still around and even bickering with the dark one.


In Back Cover, the MoM did say that Chirithys can turn dark, but [Player] actually has two Chirithys.
The question here would be if every Keyblade Kid/wielder can have two Chirithys or if [Player] is a special case.

We do not even know yet if there is just one or multiple Dark Chirithys around, yet the one belonging to [Player] did say they would meet again so it is definitely still around in some form.

Is it confirmed Dark Chirithy is Players or is it just implied?
 

Dast

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Is it confirmed Dark Chirithy is Players or is it just implied?
Dark Chiritihy says it explicitly during its final confrontation with Player before the Keyblade War
 
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Genocide

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(Ven becomes engulfed by darkness, which lunges out and strikes down Strelitzia and Chirithy before they can react. A voice calls out from the darkness.)

So, does anyone want to grab that phone?
Because I fucking called it!

Back in the day, we blame Lauriam for fridging Streltzia. Oh, how the turntables.
Don't lump me in with you. My prediction was accurate.
 

Perkilator

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You're overthinking this.

You've gone off and over-complicated things to reach your own conclusion, only to rile yourself up over this theory as if it's the answer.

Or perhaps it's because you've convinced yourself that anything you don't understand must have no answer.
Wow, it's like Nomura is subtly speaking to THOSE kinds of fans through the MoM. I love it.
 

darknessofheart

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That is a rather...generous reading of the MoM.

I don't think this changes anything if anything it just confirms a theory I've had ever since we heard some of his backstory. He's remnant of a different time, a time before darkness because he fought in the war that started all this. But rather than accept that the war is over, that no side actually won, that times have changed... the MoM won't move on. He won't be satisfied until Darkness is eradicated and he is willing to go to abhorrent lengths to achieve victory. He's willing to destroy the world, kill thousands, manipulate his students, and create repeat battles all to achieve this. How is this any different from Eraqus who tried to kill Ventus and Terra to stop the X-blade from being forged, or MX who wanted to reset the world anew to create a balanced world where light isn't swallowed by the dark?

The MoM is wrong, darkness doesn't need to be eradicated he needs to get over it. He lived in the time when obsession with light was so strong it spawned darkness and started a war. He lived in a time where he taught his students light is the best and put the fear of darkness into them so that they and their child filled unions would destroy...pretty much everything out of fear of the dark. Eraqus created Terra's self loathing, Aqua's imbalance, and Ven's sense of powerless and imprisonment out of fear of the dark. It just keeps going a never ending cycle of these people who preach light as superior and then are consumed by a frankly irrational fear/hate of the darkness that if you take a moment to step back....doesn't really make sense.

MoM is openly the villain here, if he had put half as much effort into accepting the world changed and helping it find new balance we be in a very different place. If the world does need a leader to stand up and guide it, it's sure as hell not the MoM. It's someone like Sora who preaches unity and acceptance or Riku who created a coexistence of light and dark where the best traits of both have been shown. The MoM needs to be taught by them not the other way around.

As for the being known as Darkness it remains to be seen what their goal is. Maybe they are like the MoM unable to accept the results of the war and are intent on getting victory. Or maybe just maybe they are doing what they do out of self preservation, trying to stop their existence from being erased and I can't see that as evil, if something is alive it has an inherent right to life even if you don't like it. We don't know enough yet...and I'm still not 100% certain that what we saw was it shape shifting into Ava and instead just a reveal that it was Ava, because Darkness still has a lot of knowledge that very few people should know. The book of prophecies and its contents, the identity of the dandelion leaders and their rule book marking them, the arc which it knew not only the location of but it's actual history of what it was intended to be. Not to mention Ava's "mission" and the fact she is absent from the Foreteller reunion.

If so then I would absolutely see Darkness as the good guy here or at least a third party, working against the MoM after Luxu told her the truth. Realizing that the MoM is an absolute psychopath and needs to be stopped.

Great points. I think there's more to MoM other than being a complete psychopath, but I agree he is going to the extremes for a misguided goal when a mindset of Sora or Riku is the proper way of thinking. One of my main issues recently with the overall narrative of Kingdom Hearts is that the concept of darkness not being inherently evil and is actually needed in the world has been sorta absent for a while now. This was a huge focal point in Riku's story in COM and referenced a bit in KH2 and Birth by Sleep, but never really reached fruition. So, I hope the next saga really explores that concept again in full force.

I think the MoM saw darkness at its absolute worst and most destructive at the start of Keyblade War, which scarred him to the point that he created a coat to protect himself and refused to ever take off and embark on plans to destroy the darkness altogether. Meanwhile, there is some form of darkness with more malicious intentions and its own schemes. Like the MoM, I think there's more to this entity than simply being darkness. If we think of the chess metaphor, the whole series has really been between MoM and darkness with pawns in the middle. If MoM is some misguided form of light, then it's even more fitting; light vs. darkness.

I think Sora is stuck in the middle of these forces with other scapegoats being used (Xehanort and Maleficent, etc.) which makes me think perhaps that's where Sora's chess piece lands in KH3's ending; right in between these two forces. You have the MoM and his foretellers wanting to destroy darkness altogether, while darkness may seek to blot out the light for good, and then you have Sora who understands that neither can exist without the other. Even Xehanort knew this, but his methods were just too destructive to go unchecked. Both forces can be used in destructive ways and that's what I think the foundation of the series essentially is; people misusing both darkness and light for their own personal gain or because of a misguided philosophy.
 
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Idreamaboutcats

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After that conversation between MoM and Luxu, I'm low-key expecting the Blackbox to open by itself and reveal that the MoM has been sleeping all these years.

I hope not. If the hope that was inside the box turned out to be a sleeping megalomaniac, I’d rather just throw myself into the bottom of the Caribbean.

The only problem with that though was that he was seen some 70+ years ago talking to YX, so he seems to be moving about with complete autonomy. Luxu seems really eager to bring him back though, although I don’t know why since the man seems to come and go as he pleases. Bring him back from where? What on earth is he doing?
 

LoneFox

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I said that the machine's multi-function nature is somewhat interesting. This is because it can be used to explain both the non-existence and reappearance of the box; Maleficent's knowledge about it and behavior in KH3; and also some of the Yozora stuff. This is speculative, but connects well.

We know there is one of the machines in Radiant Garden. It was probably recovered from the upside down Daybreak Town and rebuilt in Scala ad Caelum. Then, the Keyblade HQ was moved from Scala to RG at some time betweed Dark Road and BBS, and the machine was brought there too. So far, seems obvious.

Also in RG at the time of BBS was Luxu. This means, if the box still existed at that time, it must have been there too, since part Luxu's role is to keep it safe. When Xehanort took over, Luxu prevented him from getting Subject X in his hands, probably by using the machine to send her back to data worlds. Now, my theory is, after doing that he turned the machine to time travel mode, put the box in, and launched it to the future.

Later, Maleficent took control of RG, and found the machine and some evidence about the box having been there. She didn't think it was important, because she didn't understand anything about it. But then she time traveled to the UX timeline and learned about the box and its contents there. She started looking for it, assuming that the machine had been used in world travel mode. But when she didn't find it, she concluded that it had been send to the future.

MoM also had the option to use the machine for sending the box where he wanted it. This seems like a smart thing to do, because it would have bypassed Luxu's role and made the plan simpler. But he didn't use it. This suggest doing so can have unwanted consequences for the contents of the box, and indeed we seem to have a mess: Ephemer has been transformed into Yozora, similarly the Player to Luxord, Skuld is in the final world, and possibly quite a few other Dandelions have ended up there as well (the large group of stars in Melody of Memory trailer).

Since according to this theory the box disappeared into a future date, I suggest we call it The Date Escape Theory. :LOL:
 

Eonstar890

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After that conversation between MoM and Luxu, I'm low-key expecting the Blackbox to open by itself and reveal that the MoM has been sleeping all these years.

With this update I’m starting to think the black box is some sort of super weapon. Like an atomic bomb of light. Luxu was tasked with guarding it for centuries and to observe the battles of the keyblade war. The box is said to contain “hope”. And now the MoM says his plan would take several lifetimes to prepare, most likely meaning that something needed time to generate or grow. What if the box has been slowly seeping light from kingdom hearts or the realm during each battle between wielders? Or what if the dandelions are in the box and have been generating more lux that the box has been harnessing for this exact purpose? The Master told Luxu he can’t ever open it. Probably because opening it would trigger the explosion of light meant to wipe out the darkness once and for all.
 

Sign

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Also in RG at the time of BBS was Luxu. This means, if the box still existed at that time, it must have been there too, since part Luxu's role is to keep it safe. When Xehanort took over, Luxu prevented him from getting Subject X in his hands, probably by using the machine to send her back to data worlds. Now, my theory is, after doing that he turned the machine to time travel mode, put the box in, and launched it to the future.

The machine only has a singular function which varies depending the state of its completion. The completed version is meant to be used to travel to other worlds, but an incomplete version can achieve time travel.
 

LoneFox

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The machine only has a singular function which varies depending the state of its completion. The completed version is meant to be used to travel to other worlds, but an incomplete version can achieve time travel.
I would assume that a complete machine can also be used like an incomplete one. The opposite obviously isn't true. We don't know for sure if the machine in RG is complete or not, but it has been suggested that Xehanort used it to launch Kairi into space, which I believe would mean it is complete.
 
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