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[SPOILERS] Hearts other than your own...



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Alright guys, got a bit of theorizing today, mostly centered around Xehanort of course, in light of the Jump Festa trailer.

To start, let’s focus on the biggest revelation in the trailer, Young Xehanort. How did he get there?

The most striking thing about his presence is his age. But he’s not the only one who has undergone an age shift. We have Sora and Riku who also appear younger. Granted, it’s not anywhere near as much of a leap for them, but I would wager that the reason why they’re younger is the same (or similar) reason why Xehanort is younger. In other words, Xehanort appears young in the Realm of Sleep, but he’s really his old self in the real world (as the Re:coded secret ending seems to imply). I’m not really going to speculate on the reason why they can appear younger because, even though Nomura said it’s essential to the story, I honestly think it’s just an excuse to have them in their younger forms again lol. And I can’t think of any reason for why they would need for this to happen.

Anyway, I do think this is the real Xehanort we’re dealing with here and not just some dream version. But that naturally begs the question, what is he doing there? Let’s think about what a restored Master Xehanort’s first moves would be. One possibility is that he wants to reattempt creating the X-Blade. And in order to do that, his best bet would be to find Ven again (as opposed to starting over and trying to find/create two other hearts of pure light/darkness). Now, there’s a very real possibility that MX inheritted some or all of the memories/knowledge attained from Xemnas. And we know Xemnas had the right idea about where to look for Ven. I think MX will continue this pursuit using what he knows from Xemnas. He needs to find the Chamber of Waking.

How do you find the Chamber of Waking when you could be right under its nose in Castle Oblivion but never reach it? The Chamber of Repose. Remember, “With the Chamber of Repose comes the Chamber of Waking.” The Chamber of Repose is a tool meant to find the Chamber of Waking.

But how? For starters, I think the name of the chamber alone heavily implies that the Chamber of Repose is connected to the Realm of Sleep. So it is a means of accessing the Realm of Sleep. But it has to be more than that (I mean, I think we’ll see through Sora and Riku that there are other methods of entering the Realm of Sleep, so that can’t be what makes the chamber special). Perhaps the chamber gives one some kind of dominion over sleep. Control of the Dream Eaters. That is why we see (presumably) Young Xehanort summoning a Dream Eater.

[As an aside, I absolutely believe that the hooded figure there is YX. He has the exact same young/slim figure.]

But what could the Dream Eaters possibly do which would allow them to give you access to the Chamber of Waking? Remember, finding them allows you to find the keyholes of sleep, which can be used to free the worlds from their slumber.

So, I think Xehanort is using them to sniff out a particular keyhole of sleep. The Land of Departure’s keyhole. Even though Castle Oblivion exists in the real world in place of LoD, I believe LoD itself is one of the worlds which rests in the RoS. Thus, by finding and using its keyhole (where Ven is I would guess), one would wake up the world and revert CO into LoD. This would essentially bypass the need for Aqua, as Xehanort would now have total access to Ven.

Well, not quite. He still needs the most essential ingredient, his heart. And from what we can gather, YX knows Ven’s heart is in Sora. He needs Ven’s body and Sora for Ven’s heart to put the pieces back together (and this is what it seems to be foreshadowing in the BbSv2 trailer when we see Ven disappear from the Chamber of Waking and Sora from Destiny Island). Not quite sure how he’ll accomplish this, though. Perhaps he’ll do to Sora what he did to Ven, split his heart (ie detach Ven’s heart), but then redirect the detached part into Ven’s vessel.

Then he would just need the dark half. Vanitas. Now, I know it’s been said, but I absolutely agree with the theory that Vanitas’ heart resides in Xehanort. The trailer itself hints as much.

“Aren’t there hearts confined within you too?”

Of course, YX could be referring to someone other than himself with the “too” but the scene directly after says otherwise. “Hearts other than your own.” With Vanitas magically popping up out of nowhere. It really is screaming, “Xehanort has Vanitas’ heart.”

Alright, we get that. But how did he get Vanitas’ heart? Simple. Vanitas was one of the “seeds” (or “roads” in the English translation) that Xehanort was referring to in the BbS secret ending. He has the yellow eyes which indicate a connection to Xehanort.

This part of the theory is taken from the old Horcrux theory. That MX split up fragments of his heart into various vessels to increase the likelihood of his survival. However, when these beings are defeated, it has an interesting consequence. Rather than fading into darkness or (in the case of some Nobodies) reverting to their original state, these hearts go back to Xehanort. Think of it like a magnet. When their hearts are released from these “seeds,” the bits of Xehanort’s heart within them attract to the primary piece of Xehanort’s heart.

So, in other words, I’m saying Xehanort has quite the amalgamation of hearts now. His own, Vanitas’, Braig’s, Isa’s, and potentially still Terra’s and Eraqus’ (this depends on a few things but that’s an entirely different theory). As YX says, it’s hearts (plural) other than his own.
How this will play out, and what Xehanort intends to do with these hearts, I’m not sure. One possibility I’ve thought of in the case of Isa’s heart is that he may be using it as leverage against Lea. Perhaps Lea has found out that Isa changed due to the influence of Xehanort, and he wants his friend back. With Isa’s heart residing in Xehanort, Xehanort can have Lea do his bidding (notice how he seems to have been tasked with finding Ienzo and Aeleus).

Aaaand, that’s it for now. Very incomplete and vague but I just haven’t been in the theorizing mood as of late and this is about all I can muster for now.
 

Crazy Mario

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Like all of your other theories, simply amazing! I thought about the possibility of Young Xehanort actually being the real one, but I couldn't come up with well-developed theory as to how that could work as well as how Vanitas, Isa, and Braig managed to form connections to Xehanort. Congratulations, you've done it again Grass!
 

sasuke 189

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Man ,I wish I could poz you, because you seem like one of the smartest people in the KH fandom. (Smarter than me at least, not that thats not saying much)
 

Ruran

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Very nice.
It all connects together well and now this makes me wonder if the "friend" Xemnas was talking to was really someone in the RoS.
 

Crazy Mario

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Very nice.
It all connects together well and now this makes me wonder if the "friend" Xemnas was talking to was really someone in the RoS.
I honestly think it was Ventus in the Realm of Sleep who recognized Xemnas as Terra since his body is in a comatose state which could've caused his consciousness to be transported to the Realm of Sleep. This may be a theory but I can't think of anyone he would refer to as "friend", not to mention someone from the Realm of Sleep.
 

Mite

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Another great theory Grass.

The way for Xehanort to get to Ven in the CoW without Aqua is a brilliant one. He doesn't know where she is so trying to bring back LoD to it's original form would be his best second option since just looking around CO like Axel was doing doesn't work.
 

Unumus

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Grass said:
In other words, Xehanort appears young in the Realm of Sleep, but he’s really his old self in the real world (as the Re:coded secret ending seems to imply).

Wouldn't he return as AX though? Because I don't think that he would return as MX, who is a seperate person from Terra, and they are supposed to be still infused, aren't they?

Grass said:
For starters, I think the name of the chamber alone heavily implies that the Chamber of Repose is connected to the Realm of Sleep. So it is a means of accessing the Realm of Sleep.

Exactly what I think too!

Grass said:
Now, I know it’s been said, but I absolutely agree with the theory that Vanitas’ heart resides in Xehanort. The trailer itself hints as much.

“Aren’t there hearts confined within you too?”

Of course, YX could be referring to someone other than himself with the “too” but the scene directly after says otherwise. “Hearts other than your own.” With Vanitas magically popping up out of nowhere. It really is screaming, “Xehanort has Vanitas’ heart.”

YESSS!!!

Very good theory, I tip my hat to you.
 

Ruran

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I honestly think it was Ventus in the Realm of Sleep who recognized Xemnas as Terra since his body is in a comatose state which could've caused his consciousness to be transported to the Realm of Sleep. This may be a theory but I can't think of anyone he would refer to as "friend", not to mention someone from the Realm of Sleep.

Could be. I was thinking more along the lines of Vanitas.
 

Zul

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What do you think of this coinciding with the end-fragment of the old trailer, where we saw AX attack Braig?

If Braig is one of the roads MX might take, do you think that MX took control for a split second in an attempt to harvest Braig's heart, to add a heart to his own to wrestle away Terra?
 

SeaSalt

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in the RoS, would ven just be running around, or would he be in the LoD?

I think the LoD being in the RoS is a very high possibility, imagine sora and riku going there..

but vanitas' heart in xehanort's? and braig and isa's heart in xehanorts? i know theyre connected, but their hearts are in Xehanort? and which xehanort, MX or AX?

and you also made clear to me that vanitas popped out of nowhere, because he wasnt there in the other angle.

and when he says hearts plural to sora, what does he mean? sora has his and ven's heart, right? but saying hearts plural infers that there are 2+ hearts other than his own in there... wut

What do you think of this coinciding with the end-fragment of the old trailer, where we saw AX attack Braig?

If Braig is one of the roads MX might take, do you think that MX took control for a split second in an attempt to harvest Braig's heart, to add a heart to his own to wrestle away Terra?


yknow braigs eyes were brown in that scene.. right? maybe thats when braig was "harvested"
 

Crazy Mario

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Could be. I was thinking more along the lines of Vanitas.
It's just that Master Xehanort could honestly care less about Vanitas and vice-versa. He was only using him and I don't believe either of them would even like referring to anyone as a friend. I personally believe that Xemnas actually had Terra's heart after Xehanort was overtaken by darkness similar to how Roxas had Ventus' heart after Sora became a Heartless which explains why I think Ventus recognized him as Terra and why Nomura hinted he could probably wield a Keyblade. It could be Vanitas, but the reaction seems to hold me for Ventus, especially since Aqua's armor was in the room when he could've just gotten rid of it.

Even though Castle Oblivion exists in the real world in place of LoD, I believe LoD itself is one of the worlds which rests in the RoS. Thus, by finding and using its keyhole (where Ven is I would guess), one would wake up the world and revert CO into LoD. This would essentially bypass the need for Aqua, as Xehanort would now have total access to Ven.
Dude, I made that exact same theory a few months ago in the former worlds thread. It's nice to see I wasn't the only one acknowledging that possibility!
 

Organization_42

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OMG.

Grass, you are a genius. An absolute genius. Everything about your theory fits perfectly and I hope you're right because it just makes so much sense!

How do you find the Chamber of Waking when you could be right under its nose in Castle Oblivion but never reach it? The Chamber of Repose. Remember, “With the Chamber of Repose comes the Chamber of Waking.” The Chamber of Repose is a tool meant to find the Chamber of Waking.

Which would imply that Xehanort actually learned from his past mistakes and realized from 358 Days of fruitless searching that you can't access the Chamber the way one normally should. As much as I don't want him to find an alternate route to Ven, again, this makes so much sense, and after Xemnas' apathetic behavior in Days, I sure hope he came to his senses and realized that wasn't working.

This part of the theory is taken from the old Horcrux theory. That MX split up fragments of his heart into various vessels to increase the likelihood of his survival. However, when these beings are defeated, it has an interesting consequence. Rather than fading into darkness or (in the case of some Nobodies) reverting to their original state, these hearts go back to Xehanort. Think of it like a magnet. When their hearts are released from these “seeds,” the bits of Xehanort’s heart within them attract to the primary piece of Xehanort’s heart.

So, in other words, I’m saying Xehanort has quite the amalgamation of hearts now. His own, Vanitas’, Braig’s, Isa’s, and potentially still Terra’s and Eraqus’ (this depends on a few things but that’s an entirely different theory). As YX says, it’s hearts (plural) other than his own.

That's an interesting idea. I wonder if Vanitas and Braig ever consented to this idea, or if it was possible for him to do it without their knowledge? Yes, they were his allies, but it seemed to me that they were only loyal to him because they had similar goals/desires. Willingly risking their hearts to harbor pieces of his sounds a bit too extreme to me, especially with selfish characters like them. I can't imagine Vanitas being happy with that arrangement. Maybe Braig was coerced into doing it?

But I definitely like the concept behind this idea because it's the polar opposite of Sora, who shelters people's hearts, like Kairi's and Ven's, to keep them safe, while Xehanort harbors hearts because he selfishly put pieces of himself into them to increase his longevity.

One possibility I’ve thought of in the case of Isa’s heart is that he may be using it as leverage against Lea. Perhaps Lea has found out that Isa changed due to the influence of Xehanort, and he wants his friend back. With Isa’s heart residing in Xehanort, Xehanort can have Lea do his bidding (notice how he seems to have been tasked with finding Ienzo and Aeleus).

Wow. I never thought I could hate Master Xehanort more than I already did, but if you're right, then boy was I wrong. And that would put Lea/Axel right back into the messy situation he got himself into in Days/KH2, because he'd have to choose between Isa and Sora/Roxas/Xion all over again. That guy just cannot catch a break, can he?

I wonder if a similar arrangement is how Isa ended up in MX in the first place? Because out of all the "seeds" that we know about, his connection raises the biggest, "Huh???" Why would Xehanort pick a random kid from Radiant Garden as a failsafe plan if his chosen vessel, his apprentice, and his secret gunslinging ally didn't work out? Going back to the fan theory that Isa and Lea were some of the Heartless experiments from before Radiant Garden's fall, maybe Xehanort saw something in Isa that he thought would make him a useful vessel (kind of like his musings when he first saw Terra). And then maybe he cut a deal with Isa to spare Lea in exchange for harboring a piece of his heart? Or maybe not, because I'm still not entirely convinced that he would've been able to get Vanitas and Braig to agree to that, in which case he would've done it without Isa's consent too.

Aaaand, that’s it for now. Very incomplete and vague but I just haven’t been in the theorizing mood as of late and this is about all I can muster for now.

LOL, I wish I could come up with a tenth of what you can muster for theorizing! And I haven't been paying much attention at all to any theories in a long time, so if anything that I just wrote has been said a thousand times already, I'm sorry!
 

Hillboy

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Grass... I have no words. You always have the best theories. I don't like the hocrux idea but it makes total sense
 

Gexus

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I'm thinking that Xemnas wanted to have Axel under his control just like Isa, but the bond between Axel and Roxas forged a sort of protection against that in a way.
 

Memory Master

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Excellent theory!! You always amaze me with the realistic and plausable theories that take bits of information and compiles and connects them in ways that make it easy to see where the plot of the game may go. If I ever need help with an idea or concept for something I know to ask you.

One question though about the Young MX having some control of the dream eaters, are you saying that just as Sora and Riku control the Spirit dream eaters so does Xehanort control the nightmare dream eaters?
 

Crazy Mario

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Why do you think he has Isa's and Braig's hearts? Just because their eyes are yellow?
Yellow eyes signify a strong connection to Xehanort. Braig and Isa originally had blue eyes, but after their encounters with Xehanort, you can notice that they changed to yellow and have pointy ears just like Xehanort. This could possibly go along with Grass' Horcrux theory and symbolize that a part of him is inside them.
 
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