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JOTAINSIDER

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SPOILER

Why Ansem and Xemnas don't use
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SweetYetSalty

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Not really a spoiler, it's mostly common knowledge about this now, still I'll answer in spoilers

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JOTAINSIDER

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Aprentice Xehanort, with half of his memory, manage to summons The Gazing Eye to open Radiant Garden keyhole and turn the scientifics in Heartless (DDD scene)

And then he splits, and there are Ansem and Xemnas, with half Xehanort's memories each one too (until DDD, or always they have it, it is discuted)


The real reason is because by the time Ansem and Xemnas were made they were not connected to Keyblade wielders as they were apprentice Xehanort, someone not wielding a Keyblade at first.
Yes they have? or there is an obstacle to summon The Gazing Eye (as MX and TX in KH3)?

Ansem: Yes he can cause is Xehanort's heart, of course also Aprentice Xehanort' heart, the same one with amnesia but that manage to summon it, and still Xehanort's heart

Xemnas: Terra's body, and half of Xehanort's memories too (discuted too if Xemnas has Terra's memory too)

So as you say, there isn't a reason they dont use keyblade(?)
 

AmaryllisMoth

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The meta reason for it is that, most likely, Nomura hadn't planned that far with Nortless when they made the first game and then with Xemnas maybe didn't want to make the events of BBS TOO obvious so chose to give them both separate weapons but even just looking at the lore I think the main reasons why not are multifold.

To start with as a base, we know that Nobodies can use Keyblades (see Roxas) and technically possibly Heartless should be able to as well (but this is debatable). If we consider the point that Heartless are the manifestation of darkness in the heart and that for the entirety of the end of KH1 - 2 Sora was just a heart in human shape but could use a Keyblade fine seems to suggest that a heart by itself could potentially wield without actually needing a body. The issue is if the "darkness" part of the Heartless doesn't allow the blade to be summoned for...reasons. (Much, perhaps, like Sora's anti-form being unable to wield temporarily). But Vanitas exists as dark boi, so...that's why I think it should technically be possible.

So the possibility for Xehanort's Heartless and Xemnas to wield should be there, in theory, assuming they have Terra/MX's ability in their arsenal, but I think the case would be stronger for Xemnas considering we actually have a precedent for Nobodies to wield. But I'm going to just say sure on Nortless as well (again, possibly debatable on that one).

However, the main reason why I think they don't is because of what happened in Days. We know that there were severe issues when Roxas, Sora and Xion were all existing at the same time, trying to essentially summon the same Keyblade. There were times when Roxas couldn't, when Xion couldn't, and it was all one giant mess because of which persona had more...pull? over the Keyblade at the time. This leads me to believe that if Nortless and Xemnas both were out there trying to wield it could potentially cause a similar issue. I get that their situations aren't exactly the same, but because they are both connected to the same root person then they would potentially be having to fight over the same Keyblade manifestation. I think that is partially why for Nortless the idea of Riku's body was so enticing because you've got a kid with potentially his own wielding ability that you can take advantage of. Having a weapon that would sometimes, maybe, only work 50% of the time for you seems...really unreliable. Better to just use something else.

And all that is assuming they even remember not only that they CAN use it, but HOW to use it. Lea at least struggled with trying to get the thing to summon itself for a bit and that was with (presumably) someone sitting down and teaching him how and walking him through it.

So, basically, 1) I think if they both tried to summon a Keyblade they would have to essentially be fighting over it, which is unreliable and ridiculous to try and do long term so they would logically be better off just using something else, and
2) IF they even remembered that they could, they still have to remember the intricacies of HOW, which may be the sticking point as to why they don't. But considering we as viewers don't actually know the method behind how to summon a Keyblade, it's hard to say.

Just my two cents. And that first point would at least be logically consistent with the idea that Xemnas can but is choosing not to that SweetYetSalty mentioned.
 

SweetYetSalty

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The meta reason for it is that, most likely, Nomura hadn't planned that far with Nortless when they made the first game and then with Xemnas maybe didn't want to make the events of BBS TOO obvious so chose to give them both separate weapons but even just looking at the lore I think the main reasons why not are multifold.

To start with as a base, we know that Nobodies can use Keyblades (see Roxas) and technically possibly Heartless should be able to as well (but this is debatable). If we consider the point that Heartless are the manifestation of darkness in the heart and that for the entirety of the end of KH1 - 2 Sora was just a heart in human shape but could use a Keyblade fine seems to suggest that a heart by itself could potentially wield without actually needing a body. The issue is if the "darkness" part of the Heartless doesn't allow the blade to be summoned for...reasons. (Much, perhaps, like Sora's anti-form being unable to wield temporarily). But Vanitas exists as dark boi, so...that's why I think it should technically be possible.

So the possibility for Xehanort's Heartless and Xemnas to wield should be there, in theory, assuming they have Terra/MX's ability in their arsenal, but I think the case would be stronger for Xemnas considering we actually have a precedent for Nobodies to wield. But I'm going to just say sure on Nortless as well (again, possibly debatable on that one).

However, the main reason why I think they don't is because of what happened in Days. We know that there were severe issues when Roxas, Sora and Xion were all existing at the same time, trying to essentially summon the same Keyblade. There were times when Roxas couldn't, when Xion couldn't, and it was all one giant mess because of which persona had more...pull? over the Keyblade at the time. This leads me to believe that if Nortless and Xemnas both were out there trying to wield it could potentially cause a similar issue. I get that their situations aren't exactly the same, but because they are both connected to the same root person then they would potentially be having to fight over the same Keyblade manifestation. I think that is partially why for Nortless the idea of Riku's body was so enticing because you've got a kid with potentially his own wielding ability that you can take advantage of. Having a weapon that would sometimes, maybe, only work 50% of the time for you seems...really unreliable. Better to just use something else.

And all that is assuming they even remember not only that they CAN use it, but HOW to use it. Lea at least struggled with trying to get the thing to summon itself for a bit and that was with (presumably) someone sitting down and teaching him how and walking him through it.

So, basically, 1) I think if they both tried to summon a Keyblade they would have to essentially be fighting over it, which is unreliable and ridiculous to try and do long term so they would logically be better off just using something else, and
2) IF they even remembered that they could, they still have to remember the intricacies of HOW, which may be the sticking point as to why they don't. But considering we as viewers don't actually know the method behind how to summon a Keyblade, it's hard to say.

Just my two cents. And that first point would at least be logically consistent with the idea that Xemnas can but is choosing not to that SweetYetSalty mentioned.
I was going to further explain but you nailed everything I was going to say on the meta side and so much more. Good post. Honestly Terranort, Xemnas, and Ansem should be able to dual wield due to being connected to Xehanort and Terra. That would make Terranort even more OP.
 

JOTAINSIDER

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The meta reason for it is that, most likely, Nomura hadn't planned that far with Nortless when they made the first game and then with Xemnas maybe didn't want to make the events of BBS TOO obvious so chose to give them both separate weapons but even just looking at the lore I think the main reasons why not are multifold.

To start with as a base, we know that Nobodies can use Keyblades (see Roxas) and technically possibly Heartless should be able to as well (but this is debatable). If we consider the point that Heartless are the manifestation of darkness in the heart and that for the entirety of the end of KH1 - 2 Sora was just a heart in human shape but could use a Keyblade fine seems to suggest that a heart by itself could potentially wield without actually needing a body. The issue is if the "darkness" part of the Heartless doesn't allow the blade to be summoned for...reasons. (Much, perhaps, like Sora's anti-form being unable to wield temporarily). But Vanitas exists as dark boi, so...that's why I think it should technically be possible.

So the possibility for Xehanort's Heartless and Xemnas to wield should be there, in theory, assuming they have Terra/MX's ability in their arsenal, but I think the case would be stronger for Xemnas considering we actually have a precedent for Nobodies to wield. But I'm going to just say sure on Nortless as well (again, possibly debatable on that one).

However, the main reason why I think they don't is because of what happened in Days. We know that there were severe issues when Roxas, Sora and Xion were all existing at the same time, trying to essentially summon the same Keyblade. There were times when Roxas couldn't, when Xion couldn't, and it was all one giant mess because of which persona had more...pull? over the Keyblade at the time. This leads me to believe that if Nortless and Xemnas both were out there trying to wield it could potentially cause a similar issue. I get that their situations aren't exactly the same, but because they are both connected to the same root person then they would potentially be having to fight over the same Keyblade manifestation. I think that is partially why for Nortless the idea of Riku's body was so enticing because you've got a kid with potentially his own wielding ability that you can take advantage of. Having a weapon that would sometimes, maybe, only work 50% of the time for you seems...really unreliable. Better to just use something else.

And all that is assuming they even remember not only that they CAN use it, but HOW to use it. Lea at least struggled with trying to get the thing to summon itself for a bit and that was with (presumably) someone sitting down and teaching him how and walking him through it.

So, basically, 1) I think if they both tried to summon a Keyblade they would have to essentially be fighting over it, which is unreliable and ridiculous to try and do long term so they would logically be better off just using something else, and
2) IF they even remembered that they could, they still have to remember the intricacies of HOW, which may be the sticking point as to why they don't. But considering we as viewers don't actually know the method behind how to summon a Keyblade, it's hard to say.

Just my two cents. And that first point would at least be logically consistent with the idea that Xemnas can but is choosing not to that SweetYetSalty mentioned.

So, basically, 1) I think if they both tried to summon a Keyblade they would have to essentially be fighting over it, which is unreliable and ridiculous to try and do long term so they would logically be better off just using something else, and
But in the same moment (not exactly same time) (in KH 3 Keyblade Graveyard) Master Xehanort and Terra-Xehanort did summoned the same keyblade, so why Ansem and Xemnas couldn't as you said?

Maybe amnesia is an obstacle? Cause they have it, they are half Xehanort, indeed it is stated that they knew the plan when AX splitted, but on other hand they seem not Xehanort
 

AmaryllisMoth

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But in the same moment (not exactly same time) (in KH 3 Keyblade Graveyard) Master Xehanort and Terra-Xehanort did summoned the same keyblade, so why Ansem and Xemnas couldn't as you said?
Keyblades are very strange, magical things which tend to obey their own rules which are sometimes, but not always, explained to us, unfortunately. Even in Days there were times when both Xion and Roxas were using Keyblades essentially simultaneously so it isn't against the rules for a Keyblade to exist in more than one place at a time for brief moments. But those few moments of joint use or near joint use caused issues. A scene or two of MX and Terranort both using the same Keyblade at near the same time doesn't really surprise me, but the question is if they both continued to do so, would an issue arise? And, I'd think if Ansem and Xemnas were trying to also all be using the same Keyblade you are going to have a crazy four man tug of war going on.

The reason why I think Terranort got preference to using the Keyblade vs the others is because Xehanort was taking advantage of Terra's wielding ability and realized skill potential on top of his own that we know 100% is there (from BBS) vs maybe being there in the others.

Maybe amnesia is an obstacle? Cause they have it, they are half Xehanort, indeed it is stated that they knew the plan when AX splitted, but on other hand they seem not Xehanort
I certainly would think Keyblade amnesia is very likely a big hurdle. Also, they are the split versions of AX, who was Xehanort in Terra's body so, yes, they are not quite Xehanort. They should be a very bizarre hybrid split between the two. Xemnas seems to have far more of Terra in him than the others, imo, with his constant reminiscing over Aqua's armor and the appearance of his own armored form in his boss fight. But this only highlights the same issue I mentioned above: if you have Xemnas, Nortless and Terranort all in a room, all three of them are presumably going to be trying to summon the same Keyblade. The exception for this rule, I believe, is if they separately grew their "own heart" to speak of and were then using that new, personal heart to use the Keyblade. (The reason why I doubt there will be any issues in the future with Sora, Roxas and Xion all wielding together). But the Nort's can't do that/don't want to do that because they want to be MX vessels/have pieces of MX in them. Growing their own hearts for the sole purpose of wielding their own unique Keyblade would actively work against their own end goal, I would think. While it works for the Lights, doesn't make a lot of sense for the Darknesses.

So that leaves the option for Xemnas and Nortless to use something else. Could they have whipped a Keyblade out now and again just to be fancy? I think the evidence points to that they probably could. But I'd say most likely for purely aesthetic reasons, they don't. It's simply more fun to have a variety of weapons that a character can be "known for" rather than just giving everyone Keyblades and be done with it despite the fact that they might be perfectly capable of using one (see Xigbar/Marluxia).

That's also likely why Keyblade Transformations have been made a thing now that we have a massive cast of people who all need to use Keyblades for story reasons. It would be almost the same issue that some people rage about with Fire Emblem character representation in Smash Bros ("oh boy! ANOTHER guy with a sword!").
 

JOTAINSIDER

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Keyblades are very strange, magical things which tend to obey their own rules which are sometimes, but not always, explained to us, unfortunately. Even in Days there were times when both Xion and Roxas were using Keyblades essentially simultaneously so it isn't against the rules for a Keyblade to exist in more than one place at a time for brief moments. But those few moments of joint use or near joint use caused issues. A scene or two of MX and Terranort both using the same Keyblade at near the same time doesn't really surprise me, but the question is if they both continued to do so, would an issue arise? And, I'd think if Ansem and Xemnas were trying to also all be using the same Keyblade you are going to have a crazy four man tug of war going on.

The reason why I think Terranort got preference to using the Keyblade vs the others is because Xehanort was taking advantage of Terra's wielding ability and realized skill potential on top of his own that we know 100% is there (from BBS) vs maybe being there in the others.



I certainly would think Keyblade amnesia is very likely a big hurdle. Also, they are the split versions of AX, who was Xehanort in Terra's body so, yes, they are not quite Xehanort. They should be a very bizarre hybrid split between the two. Xemnas seems to have far more of Terra in him than the others, imo, with his constant reminiscing over Aqua's armor and the appearance of his own armored form in his boss fight. But this only highlights the same issue I mentioned above: if you have Xemnas, Nortless and Terranort all in a room, all three of them are presumably going to be trying to summon the same Keyblade. The exception for this rule, I believe, is if they separately grew their "own heart" to speak of and were then using that new, personal heart to use the Keyblade. (The reason why I doubt there will be any issues in the future with Sora, Roxas and Xion all wielding together). But the Nort's can't do that/don't want to do that because they want to be MX vessels/have pieces of MX in them. Growing their own hearts for the sole purpose of wielding their own unique Keyblade would actively work against their own end goal, I would think. While it works for the Lights, doesn't make a lot of sense for the Darknesses.

So that leaves the option for Xemnas and Nortless to use something else. Could they have whipped a Keyblade out now and again just to be fancy? I think the evidence points to that they probably could. But I'd say most likely for purely aesthetic reasons, they don't. It's simply more fun to have a variety of weapons that a character can be "known for" rather than just giving everyone Keyblades and be done with it despite the fact that they might be perfectly capable of using one (see Xigbar/Marluxia).

That's also likely why Keyblade Transformations have been made a thing now that we have a massive cast of people who all need to use Keyblades for story reasons. It would be almost the same issue that some people rage about with Fire Emblem character representation in Smash Bros ("oh boy! ANOTHER guy with a sword!").

Also, they are too apart from Xehanort and Terra, a bit of Aprentice Xehanort while not recovering his memory (that is why he started himself calling Ansem, and Ansem SoD is even in KH 3 about his researching while he was AX)

Xemnas has more of Terra because is the body, and about the armor you said in a ultimania interview it is stated that the armor in KH2 and BBSFM (No Name) is Xehanort's one in the past, the original, and in KH3 is a recent one


Also, there is this state in an ultimania interview BBS one I think, about Xemnas not using a keyblade:

Nomura: "It's possible that [Xemnas] intentionally wasn't using [a Keyblade]."

They all can do it, even with part of MX's heart, as we see three of the five summoning, same or not, YX, TX and MX (During KH 3)


There is not an explanation on why Ansem doesn't, and Xemnas not using it there is only that statement

Also thanks for commenting (y)
 

AmaryllisMoth

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Also, they are too apart from Xehanort and Terra, a bit of Aprentice Xehanort while not recovering his memory (that is why he started himself calling Ansem, and Ansem SoD is even in KH 3 about his researching while he was AX)

Xemnas has more of Terra because is the body, and about the armor you said in a ultimania interview it is stated that the armor in KH2 and BBSFM (No Name) is Xehanort's one in the past, the original, and in KH3 is a recent one
When I said I felt Xemnas had "more of Terra" I was specifically comparing his actions to that of Nortless, who should be the other "half" of their split from Apprentice Xehanort (which I only even brought up because you said that the two of them felt "not Xehanort"). I only wanted to highlight that yes, they are not actually fully Xehanort because you've got a little Terra in there, too. I'm aware it's his body. While it's great that you wanted to explain their origins, I suppose, I'm not really sure why you felt the need to do so. That should all be common knowledge at this point. Unless you were just agreeing with me? I don't know. I apologize if I am simply not understanding you, but I am having a little bit of trouble following your English.

They all can do it, even with part of MX's heart, as we see three of the five summoning, same or not, YX, TX and MX (During KH 3)
Again, I'm not sure if you are just trying to agree with me? Nothing I said has ever contradicted that they can summon a Keyblade. I've stated such multiple times. All I have been trying to do is postulate reasons why they would choose not to, or why it would be a poor logical decision to do it long term. There is never an absolute answer given, so all we can do is just hypothesize based on what we see, the reasons they would choose not to.

Also, the reason why they would have the ability is likely BECAUSE of MX's influence (and some part Terra), not in spite of it, so I don't really understand your caveat above.

Maybe you didn't quite understand me when I mentioned using "their own hearts" to wield?

It seems, at least consistently so far in the series that 1 Heart = 1 Keyblade. Yes, there are some shenanigans now with the duel wielding introduced in 3 but lets just ignore that for right now because until that wrench was thrown in the system the rules had been stated several times and were fairly clear.

As stated by Nomura previously: "Sora can wield two Keyblades at once because he has Ventus's [heart] as well as his own."

So, Ven has 1 Keyblade, Sora has 1 Keyblade, Xehanort would have 1, Terra would have 1, etc. This was what was causing issues in Days for Roxas and Xion because, at the time, the two of them were both trying to use Sora's Keyblade. They were literally fighting over the 1 Keyblade available to them, because they were all connected to Sora's heart. Roxas then is able to use 2 later because Xion is eliminated from the picture, and he taps into both Sora's Keyblade and Ven's Keyblade.

The only reason why you get people with multiple Keyblades is if they have other peoples' hearts inside of them that they can then "utilize" for their own means.

However, Roxas gets his own heart down the line, separate from Sora or Ven. So when Roxas returns, it is clear that he at this point has his "own" heart (same with Xion) so the two of them, when they use Keyblades, are using their OWN and not, say, borrowing Sora's or Ven's any more.

The reason why this 1 heart = 1 keyblade thing matters for this discussion is because MX was literally splitting his heart around, so everyone who has a piece of that pie should be able to use his ability to wield. That isn't really in question. BUT that doesn't change the fact that there is just 1 Keyblade to go around. The only way for them to all be wielding their own, separate Keyblades without worry is if they each, separately, grew their own heart independent to Xehanort just like Roxas did. Which, like I said before, is incredibly problematic towards their long-term goal of, you know, being Xehanort.

Them summoning a Keyblade, or the same Keyblade, or even a different one, in quick succession in a scene or two does not discount any of this. Have you played Days? There are literally missions with both Xion and Roxas fighting at the same time. Yes it is weird and kind of breaks physics as we know it but...again, Keyblades are really wonky magical things.

The issue would only really arise, in theory, if all the Norts collectively decided that they were going to keep using their Keyblades at the same time. When Roxas and Xion did that for an extended period they were making each other sick. Again, I don't know if such a thing would happen to the Norts, but who knows. It might.

If it makes it easier, lets say instead of Keyblades it was the keys to the "family car". The Nort family all only has one dilapidated rusty candy van car to share between them all. Master Xehanort, the head of the family, has made a unilateral decision that, since Terranort is the best driver among them, he gets main control over the car keys. Could Xemnas borrow the keys on Monday to go to the store and pick up some extra hair gel? Well certainly he could! He has a drivers license! But oops, the car isn't in the driveway because it's being driven right now by Terranort who is cruising around taunting teenagers ( "Today is the day you all LOSE") then speeding off cackling. Xemnas doesn't want to risk not getting his hair gel on time, so instead of sitting around waiting for the car to come back he just warps hops on a skateboard like a super cool dude.

So then there we are, sitting on the clocktower eating ice cream when we see Xemnas go flying by on his skateboard, hair windswept, in desperate need of some gelling. And we wonder to ourselves, "What the hell was in my tea" "Why isn't he driving? He has a car and a license...?" The answer is that generally, it is easier to just keep the peace and find a different method of transportation than having to argue over the one shared car in the family and risk not getting his errands done at all. It might seem silly, because a car is genuinely a faster mode of transportation, but if Xemnas never knows 100% for sure if that car is going to be sitting there in the driveway waiting for him, he might as well be better off accepting he is going to need to rent a chocobo or walk instead and will just adjust his plans to accommodate that first.

I'm not saying this is definitively, 100% the explanation, but it's the one that makes the most sense to me and none of the lore or scenes we have seen so far really discount it as far as I'm aware.

It really could honestly be as simple as "they don't want to."

It is interesting to think about what is going on in Xemnas' and Nortless' heads that they would chose to handicap themselves with using a less superior weapon. I suppose at least with Nortless he made his own Keyblade as fast as he could using Riku's body and princess hearts. Maybe Xemnas was just trying his best to keep up appearances. If everyone knew he could use his own Keyblade then he would have to actually do work collecting hearts (or at least pretend to) in order to maintain faith among the other org members instead of beckoning to the moon/kicking his feet back on an oversized throne by himself/mumbling at his imaginary armor friend doing what he does best. Like was mentioned earlier, it's likely he didn't really want/need the original organization to succeed in the whole heart gathering thing as it was just an excuse to gather people so why put in your best effort?
 

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The issue would only really arise, in theory, if all the Norts collectively decided that they were going to keep using their Keyblades at the same time. When Roxas and Xion did that for an extended period they were making each other sick. Again, I don't know if such a thing would happen to the Norts, but who knows. It might.
Would this apply in Re Mind when all the Xehanort replicas wield his keyblade at the same time? I know they are replicas but then so was Xion so the same principles should apply, right? I enjoyed your family car analogy, by the way.
 
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JOTAINSIDER

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When I said I felt Xemnas had "more of Terra" I was specifically comparing his actions to that of Nortless, who should be the other "half" of their split from Apprentice Xehanort (which I only even brought up because you said that the two of them felt "not Xehanort"). I only wanted to highlight that yes, they are not actually fully Xehanort because you've got a little Terra in there, too. I'm aware it's his body. While it's great that you wanted to explain their origins, I suppose, I'm not really sure why you felt the need to do so. That should all be common knowledge at this point. Unless you were just agreeing with me? I don't know. I apologize if I am simply not understanding you, but I am having a little bit of trouble following your English.



Again, I'm not sure if you are just trying to agree with me? Nothing I said has ever contradicted that they can summon a Keyblade. I've stated such multiple times. All I have been trying to do is postulate reasons why they would choose not to, or why it would be a poor logical decision to do it long term. There is never an absolute answer given, so all we can do is just hypothesize based on what we see, the reasons they would choose not to.

Also, the reason why they would have the ability is likely BECAUSE of MX's influence (and some part Terra), not in spite of it, so I don't really understand your caveat above.

Maybe you didn't quite understand me when I mentioned using "their own hearts" to wield?

It seems, at least consistently so far in the series that 1 Heart = 1 Keyblade. Yes, there are some shenanigans now with the duel wielding introduced in 3 but lets just ignore that for right now because until that wrench was thrown in the system the rules had been stated several times and were fairly clear.

As stated by Nomura previously: "Sora can wield two Keyblades at once because he has Ventus's [heart] as well as his own."

So, Ven has 1 Keyblade, Sora has 1 Keyblade, Xehanort would have 1, Terra would have 1, etc. This was what was causing issues in Days for Roxas and Xion because, at the time, the two of them were both trying to use Sora's Keyblade. They were literally fighting over the 1 Keyblade available to them, because they were all connected to Sora's heart. Roxas then is able to use 2 later because Xion is eliminated from the picture, and he taps into both Sora's Keyblade and Ven's Keyblade.

The only reason why you get people with multiple Keyblades is if they have other peoples' hearts inside of them that they can then "utilize" for their own means.

However, Roxas gets his own heart down the line, separate from Sora or Ven. So when Roxas returns, it is clear that he at this point has his "own" heart (same with Xion) so the two of them, when they use Keyblades, are using their OWN and not, say, borrowing Sora's or Ven's any more.

The reason why this 1 heart = 1 keyblade thing matters for this discussion is because MX was literally splitting his heart around, so everyone who has a piece of that pie should be able to use his ability to wield. That isn't really in question. BUT that doesn't change the fact that there is just 1 Keyblade to go around. The only way for them to all be wielding their own, separate Keyblades without worry is if they each, separately, grew their own heart independent to Xehanort just like Roxas did. Which, like I said before, is incredibly problematic towards their long-term goal of, you know, being Xehanort.

Them summoning a Keyblade, or the same Keyblade, or even a different one, in quick succession in a scene or two does not discount any of this. Have you played Days? There are literally missions with both Xion and Roxas fighting at the same time. Yes it is weird and kind of breaks physics as we know it but...again, Keyblades are really wonky magical things.

The issue would only really arise, in theory, if all the Norts collectively decided that they were going to keep using their Keyblades at the same time. When Roxas and Xion did that for an extended period they were making each other sick. Again, I don't know if such a thing would happen to the Norts, but who knows. It might.

If it makes it easier, lets say instead of Keyblades it was the keys to the "family car". The Nort family all only has one dilapidated rusty candy van car to share between them all. Master Xehanort, the head of the family, has made a unilateral decision that, since Terranort is the best driver among them, he gets main control over the car keys. Could Xemnas borrow the keys on Monday to go to the store and pick up some extra hair gel? Well certainly he could! He has a drivers license! But oops, the car isn't in the driveway because it's being driven right now by Terranort who is cruising around taunting teenagers ( "Today is the day you all LOSE") then speeding off cackling. Xemnas doesn't want to risk not getting his hair gel on time, so instead of sitting around waiting for the car to come back he just warps hops on a skateboard like a super cool dude.

So then there we are, sitting on the clocktower eating ice cream when we see Xemnas go flying by on his skateboard, hair windswept, in desperate need of some gelling. And we wonder to ourselves, "What the hell was in my tea" "Why isn't he driving? He has a car and a license...?" The answer is that generally, it is easier to just keep the peace and find a different method of transportation than having to argue over the one shared car in the family and risk not getting his errands done at all. It might seem silly, because a car is genuinely a faster mode of transportation, but if Xemnas never knows 100% for sure if that car is going to be sitting there in the driveway waiting for him, he might as well be better off accepting he is going to need to rent a chocobo or walk instead and will just adjust his plans to accommodate that first.

I'm not saying this is definitively, 100% the explanation, but it's the one that makes the most sense to me and none of the lore or scenes we have seen so far really discount it as far as I'm aware.

It really could honestly be as simple as "they don't want to."

It is interesting to think about what is going on in Xemnas' and Nortless' heads that they would chose to handicap themselves with using a less superior weapon. I suppose at least with Nortless he made his own Keyblade as fast as he could using Riku's body and princess hearts. Maybe Xemnas was just trying his best to keep up appearances. If everyone knew he could use his own Keyblade then he would have to actually do work collecting hearts (or at least pretend to) in order to maintain faith among the other org members instead of beckoning to the moon/kicking his feet back on an oversized throne by himself/mumbling at his imaginary armor friend doing what he does best. Like was mentioned earlier, it's likely he didn't really want/need the original organization to succeed in the whole heart gathering thing as it was just an excuse to gather people so why put in your best effort?
Some sentences in the other reply I said were to add information to the thread, not arguing at all


You said:

The reason why this 1 heart = 1 keyblade thing matters for this discussion is because MX was literally splitting his heart around, so everyone who has a piece of that pie should be able to use his ability to wield. That isn't really in question. BUT that doesn't change the fact that there is just 1 Keyblade to go around. The only way for them to all be wielding their own, separate Keyblades without worry is if they each, separately, grew their own heart independent to Xehanort just like Roxas did. Which, like I said before, is incredibly problematic towards their long-term goal of, you know, being Xehanort.

But problematic in the sense of drawing each other power, but not about ''being Xehanort''(?)
As you said about 1=1, the only that can summon is Xemnas (Ansem SoD can't because is a heart already), but from Terra's part, of course meaning Terra's keyblade, not No Name (or yes take his Xehanort part and would be drawing of power between 3 of the Xehanorts) because Terra-Xehanort does it from MX's part (because the keyblade summoned, as he is Xehanort fully, less in body, the one in BBS), so it is supposed that it would be drawing of power between MX and TX in time being (Young Xehanort does it because is another different keyblade,
Spoiler Spoiler Show
), so it may seem contradictory to what I said: ''but not about being Xehanort'', but not why grow an own, like Roxas (I didn't understand what you said with Roxas growing and own, I mean, if Roxas can why not Xemnas? Roxas and Xemnas come from wielders, and they are in replicas, what would be the difference? not arguing there is no explanation of course) and then pass the piece of heart to Xemnas (or not because the piece of heart remains)?
 
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AmaryllisMoth

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Would this apply in Re Mind when all the Xehanort replicas wield his keyblade at the same time? I know they are replicas but then so was Xion so the same principles should apply, right?
Really interesting question! I mean, if it is an established rule then it should apply, but it's never really addressed. At the end of the day it might only end up being a Sora-exclusive problem because...reasons? Obviously I don't have all the answers and I'm just theorizing here, but at that point in the story the X-blade had been formed, and it is only after that point that we see MX using his armiger-blade thing with all the other replica copies using their own pieces of it. Perhaps the X-blade has more accommodations for that sort of thing? That, or Nomura just decided that "coolness factor" outweighed everything else, haha.

But problematic in the sense of drawing each other power, but not about ''being Xehanort''(?)
As you said about 1=1, the only that can summon is Xemnas (Ansem SoD can't because is a heart already),
Well, I speculated earlier that I thought it was entirely possible that Nortless couldn't use his Keyblade because of "darkness shenanigans" but I wasn't sure. Just wanted to give a shout-out thanks to kinxsonic for linking the video that basically says that above (as I clearly completely forgot about that cutscene, haha). But just to be clear, you can still use a Keyblade even if you are only a heart. That isn't the problem. Sora is only a heart (exactly the same as Seeker) from the events of Hollow Bastion up until he finally gets his "body" back from Roxas in KH2. And he clearly uses the Keyblade just fine.

And if Xemnas were to use a Keyblade it could very well be "Terra's" Keyblade, that is true. But he could also just as easily have access to Xehanorts, I'd imagine. ApprenticeNort it isn't FULLY Terra so Xemnas isn't FULLY Terra's body alone, either. Heck, maybe he could even use Eraqus' considering we know he is in there somewhere, too. While, yes, using Terra's Keyblade would eliminate the issue of the 1=1 thing, it is incredibly difficult to say which Keyblade he would really be using because he never actually uses one. Or, for that matter, HOW MANY Keyblades he could summon at once. (At max he could potentially use 3)

(I didn't understand what you said with Roxas growing and own
When Roxas is first "born" he is an advanced form of Nobody like any of the others. Essentially, just a part of Sora in another form. Through his adventures, his struggles, Roxas grows his own heart. His own identity. He no longer is just "part" of Sora, he is his own person. Sora realizes this and actively encourages Roxas to be his own independent person apart from him. This is a major motivating factor for Sora because he sees Roxas as the unique individual he has become and is unsurprised in KH3 when he is told that Roxas' heart is trapped in him. He already knows Roxas has his own heart at that point. This means that, when Roxas returns, he can wield without worry because he is using his own heart to summon the Keyblade.

I hope that is less confusing?

but not why grow an own, like Roxas...I mean, if Roxas can why not Xemnas? Roxas and Xemnas come from wielders, and they are in replicas, what would be the difference?
That's the thing: Xemnas could. He's perfectly capable of growing his own heart independent of Xehanort. It seems clear that anyone and anything that wants its own heart can make it. If Roxas did it then yes, Xemnas could too. What I said was not that he couldn't, but that it would be unwise for him to do so. MX's goal is not to make unique Keyblade wielders, it is literally just to have vessels for his darkness. It doesn't make sense for MX to encourage his intended replica clones to gain their own sentient independent hearts separate from him. Oppositely, Sora has a completely different mindset and actively wants to encourage Roxas to be his own person. That's the difference, really. MX would not want to encourage independence (that bears the risk of betrayal), and, as part of him, Xemnas wouldn't want to disrupt that plan.
 

JOTAINSIDER

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Really interesting question! I mean, if it is an established rule then it should apply, but it's never really addressed. At the end of the day it might only end up being a Sora-exclusive problem because...reasons? Obviously I don't have all the answers and I'm just theorizing here, but at that point in the story the X-blade had been formed, and it is only after that point that we see MX using his armiger-blade thing with all the other replica copies using their own pieces of it. Perhaps the X-blade has more accommodations for that sort of thing? That, or Nomura just decided that "coolness factor" outweighed everything else, haha.



Well, I speculated earlier that I thought it was entirely possible that Nortless couldn't use his Keyblade because of "darkness shenanigans" but I wasn't sure. Just wanted to give a shout-out thanks to kinxsonic for linking the video that basically says that above (as I clearly completely forgot about that cutscene, haha). But just to be clear, you can still use a Keyblade even if you are only a heart. That isn't the problem. Sora is only a heart (exactly the same as Seeker) from the events of Hollow Bastion up until he finally gets his "body" back from Roxas in KH2. And he clearly uses the Keyblade just fine.

And if Xemnas were to use a Keyblade it could very well be "Terra's" Keyblade, that is true. But he could also just as easily have access to Xehanorts, I'd imagine. ApprenticeNort it isn't FULLY Terra so Xemnas isn't FULLY Terra's body alone, either. Heck, maybe he could even use Eraqus' considering we know he is in there somewhere, too. While, yes, using Terra's Keyblade would eliminate the issue of the 1=1 thing, it is incredibly difficult to say which Keyblade he would really be using because he never actually uses one. Or, for that matter, HOW MANY Keyblades he could summon at once. (At max he could potentially use 3)



When Roxas is first "born" he is an advanced form of Nobody like any of the others. Essentially, just a part of Sora in another form. Through his adventures, his struggles, Roxas grows his own heart. His own identity. He no longer is just "part" of Sora, he is his own person. Sora realizes this and actively encourages Roxas to be his own independent person apart from him. This is a major motivating factor for Sora because he sees Roxas as the unique individual he has become and is unsurprised in KH3 when he is told that Roxas' heart is trapped in him. He already knows Roxas has his own heart at that point. This means that, when Roxas returns, he can wield without worry because he is using his own heart to summon the Keyblade.

I hope that is less confusing?



That's the thing: Xemnas could. He's perfectly capable of growing his own heart independent of Xehanort. It seems clear that anyone and anything that wants its own heart can make it. If Roxas did it then yes, Xemnas could too. What I said was not that he couldn't, but that it would be unwise for him to do so. MX's goal is not to make unique Keyblade wielders, it is literally just to have vessels for his darkness. It doesn't make sense for MX to encourage his intended replica clones to gain their own sentient independent hearts separate from him. Oppositely, Sora has a completely different mindset and actively wants to encourage Roxas to be his own person. That's the difference, really. MX would not want to encourage independence (that bears the risk of betrayal), and, as part of him, Xemnas wouldn't want to disrupt that plan.

Let's say in conclusion there are clues that lead to assumptions as to why Ansem and Xemnas don't use a keyblade


Thanks for commenting and share in the thread (y)
 
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