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[Spoiler]'s Remnant question...



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JustSnilloc

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Vanitas's Remnant, is he supposed to be cannon? What exactly is he? It doesn't make since... Vanitas was born from Ven's heart right? So that makes him a Heart with a PPS correct? THEN WHAT COULD HE LEAVE A REMNANT ON?!?!?! ><

To be honest I never did that fight so I don't know exactly when it takes place, but could someone help me out here?
 

Memory Master

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It happens after you complete Last Episode, so the real Vanitas is gone by the time the Remnant appears. The Vanitas Remnant is simply the emotions and thoughts of Vanitas that were powerful enough to take physical form. Basically its like a really strong unversed left behind by Vanitas' very being I suppose. Its all that is left of him. But I don't think it was ever confirmed if it was canon or not, I tend to think it doesn't matter since it probably wont ever reappear again in the series.
 

Ruran

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I don't remember if Vanitas's Remnant was cannon or not but remnants/sentiments are essentially formed from a persons strong thoughts/will. He's one of the bonus bosses you fight at the end of the game and I think the only person who could actually fight him in accordance with the time line is Aqua.

Also PPS?
 

Memory Master

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I don't remember if Vanitas's Remnant was cannon or not but remnants/sentiments are essentially formed from a persons strong thoughts/will. He's one of the bonus bosses you fight at the end of the game and I think the only person who could actually fight him in accordance with the time line is Aqua.

Also PPS?

Physical Projection Something or another lol, I can't remember what the S stands for. I think it means basically the projection of a physical body by a walking heart, basically Vanitas and Sora between KH1 Hollow Bastion and reuniting with Roxas in KH2.
 

JustSnilloc

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Also PPS?

(PPS) Projected Physical Shell - Heartless have them, it's basically what a heart does without a body. It's the pseudo-body that you see, a few other characters have had PPS's as well Sora being the most prominent of them

Also...

It happens after you complete Last Episode, so the real Vanitas is gone by the time the Remnant appears. The Vanitas Remnant is simply the emotions and thoughts of Vanitas that were powerful enough to take physical form. Basically its like a really strong unversed left behind by Vanitas' very being I suppose. Its all that is left of him. But I don't think it was ever confirmed if it was canon or not, I tend to think it doesn't matter since it probably wont ever reappear again in the series.

So it's kind of like the last unversed?
 
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Ruran

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Physical Projection Something or another lol, I can't remember what the S stands for. I think it means basically the projection of a physical body by a walking heart, basically Vanitas and Sora between KH1 Hollow Bastion and reuniting with Roxas in KH2.

(PPS) Projected Physical Shell - Heartless have them, it's basically what a heart does without a body. It's the pseudo-body that you see, a few other characters have had PPS's as well Sora being the most prominent of them

Huh, that's new to me. And I thought I knew all the abbreviations relating to KH. Thanks for clearing that up.
 

Memory Master

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So it's kind of like the last unversed?

That's the way I always saw Vanitas' Remnant. The last negative thoughts and emotions of Vanitas taking on Physical Form resembling Vanitas. The weaker unversed you can fight in Last Episode are obviously not canon since they dissapeared when Vanitas was killed. Vanitas' Remnant may have just been strong enough to survive without Vanitas unlike the weaker unversed.
 

Leflores

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I don't really think it is an Unversed. Terra left behind a Lingering Sentiment, but that isn't classed as Unversed. But yes, the remnant of Vanitas is a collection of his thoughts and feelings before his demise (being negative).
 

Ruran

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I wouldn't really call Remnants/Sentiments "Unversed" either but I'd say they more like...cousins. Unversed are formed from (negative) emotions and Remnants/Sentiments are formed from emotions and thoughts.
 

Nayru's Love

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It's kinda hard to even speculate what Vanitas' Lingering Remnant is since we know almost nothing about him.

I tend to think it doesn't matter since it probably wont ever reappear again in the series.

I can imagine understanding him will help us understand Nightmare Ventus more.
 

Grandsword

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i always thought that maybe the Remnants/sentiments were some sort of horcrux made when a significantly powerful being died with a powerful desire remaining; for example Terra's was basically his desire to repent for his deeds as xehanort and Maleficent's unwilling lackey and to protect his friends.
on the other hand judging from the final moments of Vanitas, i'd guess his remnant was a result of not wanting to experience cessation of existence at some level
 

Memory Master

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i always thought that maybe the Remnants/sentiments were some sort of horcrux made when a significantly powerful being died with a powerful desire remaining; for example Terra's was basically his desire to repent for his deeds as xehanort and Maleficent's unwilling lackey and to protect his friends.
on the other hand judging from the final moments of Vanitas, i'd guess his remnant was a result of not wanting to experience cessation of existence at some level

Interesting that you bring up horcruxes. We know in KH the soul is bascially just the energy and life force of a being, a battery for the body in other words. And the heart is where the personal indentity and conciousness of being resides.

But what if some of the soul can imprinted with some powerful emotions and memories and left behind by a person with a strong heart? It's not really a being, but more like a recording of a person. In other words like what a residual energy is in the ghost investigating community in the real world. It's not a sentient or intellegent being but more like a fingerprint of someone. Perhaps a remnant is this?
 

Grandsword

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Interesting that you bring up horcruxes. We know in KH the soul is basically just the energy and life force of a being, a battery for the body in other words. And the heart is where the personal indentity and consciousness of being resides.

But what if some of the soul can imprinted with some powerful emotions and memories and left behind by a person with a strong heart? It's not really a being, but more like a recording of a person. In other words like what a residual energy is in the ghost investigating community in the real world. It's not a sentient or intelligent being but more like a fingerprint of someone. Perhaps a remnant is this?

good theory, thinking further, perhaps remnants are what happens to a displaced mind? after all when Terra's was made xehanort said "Your body submits, your heart succumbs, so why does your mind resist?"
this could mean that xehanort knew what a remnant is; perhaps the status of Terra's remnant circa KH2 was due to the mind in it slowly degrading from being in a non-living shell; likewise the seeming non-intelligence of vanitas's remnant is due to being made from an uncomplete being.
 

Memory Master

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good theory, thinking further, perhaps remnants are what happens to a displaced mind? after all when Terra's was made xehanort said "Your body submits, your heart succumbs, so why does your mind resist?"
this could mean that xehanort knew what a remnant is; perhaps the status of Terra's remnant circa KH2 was due to the mind in it slowly degrading from being in a non-living shell; likewise the seeming non-intelligence of vanitas's remnant is due to being made from an uncomplete being.

The thing about the mind is that it is still a mystery in the series. The mind is seen in the real world as the conciousness of a person and their will. Obviously the conciousness resides in the heart since MX's heart is what possessed Terra and obviously that was MX's in conciousness in Terra. Therefore it may be likely that the mind is a part of the heart.

We know a complete being in the KH universe is comprised of a body, soul, and heart. The body is the vessel that contains the other two, the soul is the energy or life force of being that keeps the body going, and the heart is the thing that gives emotions, contains memories, light and darkness, and also is the conciousness, will, and identity of the person and as such this may be the mind is part of the heart. After all the heart is very complex and no one in the series understands it completely.

So if Terra's mind was actually in the armor then it would mean his mind/will/conciousness would have been transfered to the armor (Like how the mind/will/conciousness of a person is transfered to the nobody when the heart becomes a heartless) but yet in the secret ending of BBS we see Terra's conciousness speaking with MX's conciousness inside of their merged heart.

So perhaps Terra's a peice of Terra's soul (imprented with his hatred toward MX and some of his memories) was willed into the armor my Terra's heart (which still contained his mind) thus giving the armor life, and Terra's heart/mind from within Terranort was resting MX by controling the armor like it was a puppet (Like how Riku's heart was resisting XH from inside his body in KH1, except Terra's heart/mind was using the armor to help him fight back against MX).

This would explain why Lingering Sentiment stabs his keyblade into the ground and stops fighting after Terranort falls unconcious. With Terranort unconcious and therefore Terra himself unconcious he cannot control the armor like a puppet and as such the armor resorts to a stationary position like it does at the end of Terra's story, where it remains to this day.
 

Grandsword

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the only thing that doesn't explain is how Terra's remnant fought against sora in KH2; although in a mix of the puppet and horcrux ideas perhaps after terranort separated into ansem: SOD and xemnas, Terra used the link with his remnant to imprint himself on it and turn it into a kind of backup; this could give a valid way to bring Terra back, perhaps using the backup imprinted on armor as an anchor to make a new body
in fact a fanfiction i read once did something like this ( Pokemon: Keyblade Masters Chapter 14: Terra, a Pokémon and Kingdom Hearts crossover fanfic - FanFiction.Net )
given, it's a crossover fic, but this is how i'd imagine the restoration of terra
 

Memory Master

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the only thing that doesn't explain is how Terra's remnant fought against sora in KH2; although in a mix of the puppet and horcrux ideas perhaps after terranort separated into ansem: SOD and xemnas, Terra used the link with his remnant to imprint himself on it and turn it into a kind of backup; this could give a valid way to bring Terra back, perhaps using the backup imprinted on armor as an anchor to make a new body
in fact a fanfiction i read once did something like this ( Pokemon: Keyblade Masters Chapter 14: Terra, a Pokémon and Kingdom Hearts crossover fanfic - FanFiction.Net )
given, it's a crossover fic, but this is how i'd imagine the restoration of terra

Actually didn't Nomura say the battle between Lingering Sentiment and Sora wasn't canon?

As for your idea, basically it is kind of like how Kadaj, Yaz, and Lazoo were remnants of Sephiroth created by his will and they were supposed to be used to restore Sephiroth? Interesting but I doubt Lingering Sentiment doesn't seem to be that kind of remnant, so I don't know if he would be strong enough to do that. I think maybe you could probably take the Lingering Sentiment and make a Terra replica out of it pretty easily (Since it has some of Terra's memories and emotions and we know Xion was a replica created from memories) but that probably wont happen. Besides who needs another replica around to try and save, we already have Xion we have to save and hopefully make her into her own person.

Plus KH3D reveals some stuff that would get in the way of this idea but I can't say anything without revealing spoilers.
 

Grandsword

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the way i thought of it was that they would use the remnant as temporary vessel like nightmare from soul caliber and somewhere along the line Terra would attempt to retake his body from xemnas, perhaps in a battle of willpower
 
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Memory Master

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the way i thought of it was that they would use the remnant as temporary vessel like nightmare from soul caliber and somewhere along the line Terra would attempt to retake his body from xemnas, perhaps in a battle of willpower

Like I said uh KH3D kind of has a few things to say about this whole Terra thing and yeah I can't really go into details.
 
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