Sora...more of a plot device than character?

[Toadles]

But the Re:Coded secret ending was the last straw. For Mickey... MICKEY to treat Riku as an after-thought? I can sort of understand Yen-Sid, he never met Riku, but MICKEY? What happened to all that 'we're connected' crap from CoM?

Yeah, I don't see how that could happen, they had enough interaction in KH: CoM and 2 for some guy to end up drawing this.

Oh and Terra definitely should have said "Riku", considering his "speech" involved saying that they would meet again.

 

[Smile]

Yeah, I don't see how that could happen, they had enough interaction in KH: CoM and 2 for some guy to end up drawing this.

For a reason. It was "I can't show myself to Sora" vs. "I'll tell you everything and depend on you constantly, your Majesty - I mean Mickey. So because we're SUCH CLOSE FRIENDS, kill me if it comes to it, mmkay?"

But for Mickey, Riku was "...oh and Riku too"
;A;

Oh and Terra definitely should have said "Riku", considering his "speech" involved saying that they would meet again.

That's what I'm talking about. The only way I can accept Terra saying Sora's name is because he told Ven to watch his back and Ven can only do that through Sora now. But that's hardly Terra calling for Sora and is me looking too deeply into it in a desperate struggle to make this work and frustrate me less :V
I'd have preferred it had he stayed silent like Axel.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

It kind of seemed to be the case in KH2 xD;;; "Lesse, Riku, the King... oh man, Kairi now, too? Again?! *writes her name down* :C oh well, on to the next world. Lesse if we can wrap that one up before dinner."

Lol, I wonder if we get an extra section in Jiminy's journal in KH III then: "The tormented ones", a list with persons to save and as the game progresses more and more information regarding them becomes avaiable upt to a point when all info is gathered we go on a quest saving that person.

Granted. I was talking more about if they pull that Sora-Ven crap twist, not what we have now. Though as I said before, the way they present it ruins it for the both of them. Sora's JesuSora and Riku's barely an afterthought >_>; Way to go and ruin everything, Nomura.

We can't say if that twist would be "crap" or not since we don't know how it would be handled and what it would actually mean in detail.
Fact is that both boys share a very deep connection with each other and I would certainly not ruling out this playing an important part someday.
I wouldn't say Riku's an afterthought just because Mickey mentioned him second in one sentence, furthermore, nearly all characters referring to both of them put Riku second after Sora.
Considering Riku's ties to both Terra and Xehanort I honestly can't see Riku's importance diminishing, even if Ven's importance may increase, if it's that what bothers you.
If Riku really has something of Terra in him he's actually essential for Terra's rescue.

Oh yes that stopped them before.

Such as...Xion going on a mission right after awakening from coma? Or were they that smart to put some days between it, lol?

I'd much prefer it if that did that. BBS came far too late into the saga for me to be satisfied if they suddenly finished fixing everything and solving everything. Granted some mysteries like, say, what the hell Namine is, I'd prefer to have explained in this saga. But for the sake of the plot, he had better leave some stuff for the next saga from this one. Otherwise he introduced, like, what, half a dozen characters? All to be offed within a game after the one they were introduced in? Lovely. It's pathetic in a long-running series.

They will never resolve everything...Nomura likes people to speculate...*ggg*.
Yeah, he introduced much characters which were "written off" the spot way too quickly, except this was planned from the get go for some strange reason.
Heck, some characters were even "offed" in the very same game they were introduced, but well, maybe only temporarely as we can consider now.

I'd sooner blame it on Sora being a deus ex machina. Riku basically said as much in the post-credits scene.

Hmmmm...Sora desu ex machina or possibly a Sora-Ven one? That "light door" was exact the same one appearance-wise as the injured Ven on Aqua's back summoned in Final Episode, using the last of his strength.
What if Ven's heart actually awakened due to it being tossed around between Sora-Roxas then back to Sora again?

 

[Smile]

Lol, I wonder if we get an extra section in Jiminy's journal in KH III then: "The tormented ones", a list with persons to save and as the game progresses more and more information regarding them becomes avaiable upt to a point when all info is gathered we go on a quest saving that person.

You laugh but I don't think it's actually quite that far-fetched.

I wouldn't say Riku's an afterthought just because Mickey mentioned him second in one sentence, furthermore, nearly all characters referring to both of them put Riku second after Sora.

And that's fine. But it wasn't just that Riku was mentioned second, it was the whole "blah blah blah - let's get Sora! ...oh and Riku, too". That's what I mean in him being an afterthought.

Such as...Xion going on a mission right after awakening from coma? Or were they that smart to put some days between it, lol?

That depends on what happens to Ven. When Xion was in her coma, at least the one that comes to mind right now, it was after she connected better to Sora's Memories and absorbed his Memories at a killer pace. It made all the sense for her to be more powerful once she woke up.

Heck, some characters were even "offed" in the very same game they were introduced, but well, maybe only temporarely as we can consider now.

Aside from maybe some Disney villains, and Repliku, I can't think of anyone who was offed at the same game they were introduced in and don't have a possibility of a comeback.

Hmmmm...Sora desu ex machina or possibly a Sora-Ven one? That "light door" was exact the same one appearance-wise as the injured Ven on Aqua's back summoned in Final Episode, using the last of his strength.
What if Ven's heart actually awakened due to it being tossed around between Sora-Roxas then back to Sora again?

That's one of the theories running around these days, actually, seeing both Roxas's development as a person as well as him Duel Wielding at the end of Days. Also, might attribute, ironically, to his 'my Heart belongs to me' concept. But that's just me downplaying Roxas's character, lol.

 

[loke13]

And that's fine. But it wasn't just that Riku was mentioned second, it was the whole "blah blah blah - let's get Sora! ...oh and Riku, too". That's what I mean in him being an afterthought.

In the ancient words of Vanitas "It never hurts to have a backup."

 

[Smile]

In the ancient words of Vanitas "It never hurts to have a backup."

My problem is that throughout the entire series that didn't seem to be the case, not in that regard. The only one who might've saw Riku as a backup was Xemnas in the Heart collection business, but Maleficent saw Riku as more valuable, Vexen, Zexion and Lexaeus wanted Riku to even out Marluxia enslaving Sora, and in KH2, Saix preferred to take on SDG than involve Riku in the fight (game-mechanic elements, yes, but the fact still remains Saix forced Riku into playing human shield for Kairi. It adds up with him RUNNING AWAY FROM RIKU when Riku and Namine saved Kairi). Against KH'd Xemnas, Riku and Sora both fought together, and Riku served as human shield and savior for Sora more than the other way around scene-wise.
I really doubt he's going to be there for the sake of backup. This is just them ruining it with going too far with JesuSora.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

You laugh but I don't think it's actually quite that far-fetched.

After thinking some more about it I actually came to the same conclusion...and depending how they put it in there it might be a very interesting addition.

And that's fine. But it wasn't just that Riku was mentioned second, it was the whole "blah blah blah - let's get Sora! ...oh and Riku, too". That's what I mean in him being an afterthought.

I just re-watched that scene...and one has to notice that Mickey (and Yen Sid too) constantly refer to Sora alone (maybe it's for simplification), as Mickey also said about Ansem SoD and Xemnas "but Sora defeated them both" with isn't quite right, as Ansem SoD was "defeated" the first time in a joint effort by Sora, Donald and Goofy and the second time by Riku in CoM while Xemnas was also defeated in a joint operation, first it were Sora, Riku, Donald and Goofy (against the first armored Controller-Xemnas) and later on Sora and Riku together.
People may not like it, but to me it's plainly evident that both Mickey and Yen Sid consider Sora to be the more important player on the field on their side (which isn't that surprising since he's the main protagonist after all).

That depends on what happens to Ven. When Xion was in her coma, at least the one that comes to mind right now, it was after she connected better to Sora's Memories and absorbed his Memories at a killer pace. It made all the sense for her to be more powerful once she woke up.

Exactly, I also forgot that Xion's coma (and Roxas's too) had quite different circumstances than Ven's. Xion's heart wasn't smashed to pieces...the main reason for Ven's coma is that his heart was so badly maimed it couldn't maintain and control his body anymore.
Depending if, and when yes how far Ven's heart could recuperate by itself while sleeping in Sora's he may be able to "function" reasonably normal when the heart is finally fully healed (a feat which apparently is beyond the power of a single keyblade master or Aqua could have done it right when they were at Yen Sid's tower) and put back, yet I would still doubt he'll be able to fight again right on the spot.
Furthermore, as Roxas was (although without malevolent intent) literally using Ven's injured heart for nearly a year I wouldn't completely rule out that having a negative effect.

Aside from maybe some Disney villains, and Repliku, I can't think of anyone who was offed at the same game they were introduced in and don't have a possibility of a comeback.

That's why I added the temporarely, but seeing where it goes the offing of the characters might have been done on purpose.
Most of the Disney villains actually seem to be able to be revived more easily than KH-Original characters, as Maleficent apparently was brought back only by memories and she herself seemed to have little trouble reviving Oogie Boogie.

That's one of the theories running around these days, actually, seeing both Roxas's development as a person as well as him Duel Wielding at the end of Days. Also, might attribute, ironically, to his 'my Heart belongs to me' concept. But that's just me downplaying Roxas's character, lol.

I thought at first that Xion's death shocked Roxas so much that he actually "grabbed" into Ven's injured heart and pulled that keyblade out, lol.
If Ven's sleep was "disturbed" due to the heart being "tossed around" it would open up many additional possibilities.
Wasn't that "my heart belongs to me!"-line from KH 2 in the Simulated Twilight Town where Roxas had that defiant independence-freak out? I always thought about it as just a saying, as Roxas didn't know he had a heart (or rather, was using one).
Looking at it this way it is really ironic...and also another blow for him, as this particular heart really doesn't belong to him...

 

[Smile]

People may not like it, but to me it's plainly evident that both Mickey and Yen Sid consider Sora to be the more important player on the field on their side (which isn't that surprising since he's the main protagonist after all).

But that's what gets me about this whole mess seeing Mickey's involvement. I understand he feels like he bonded with Sora after what he's been through with D-Sora, but D-Riku was there for most of the ride as well, and Mickey's been closer to the real Riku than to all Soras combined. Again, Yen-Sid I do get on that matter. I also doubt he knew exactly what Riku's been through in R-R.
It's Mickey I'm back to hating full-force because of this stupid script issue.
Especially since Riku's been as main a player as Sora, if not mainer. Sora was comatose for so long and detached from the true plottings of KH2. Riku was active during that time. And - he helped Sora take down Xemnas. So what IS up with that, you stupid rat?

"We're connected, you and me" my tail feathers.

a feat which apparently is beyond the power of a single keyblade master or Aqua could have done it right when they were at Yen Sid's tower

An interesting question is - why the hell should that even be a Keyblade Master's power? Removing Hearts somewhat makes sense because it involves a certain unlocking of the Heart, as seen and previously demonstrated in KH1 with the KoPH, albeit in a slightly different manner. But to fix a broken Heart? It has nothing to do with the Keyblade's pre-existing powers.

Most of the Disney villains actually seem to be able to be revived more easily than KH-Original characters, as Maleficent apparently was brought back only by memories and she herself seemed to have little trouble reviving Oogie Boogie.

Come to think about it, I think it ties in nicely with the concept of 'Death' Nomura's slowly shoving our way. Though Maleficent seems to have had a different end, what with her being attacked by the KoPH in KH1.

I thought at first that Xion's death shocked Roxas so much that he actually "grabbed" into Ven's injured heart and pulled that keyblade out, lol.

I still blame that particular issue on Xion. Xion absorbed so much out of Roxas that she eventually became able to look like Ven. In a sense, it might come to show she took all the Sora Roxas had to give and then began taking what he had left - Ven. That's also why Roxas began feeling weaker, as opposed to feeling normal regardless of how much power Xion syphoned out of him - they were both balancing Sora's powers between them, but then Xion began tapping into Roxas's 'core' - Ven.
I blame a lot of what happened after to Xion being reabsorbed into Roxas - similarly to how Roxas and Namine returning to Sora and Kairi let some of Sora's Memories of what happened in CoM resurface, Xion being absorbed by Roxas just might've let what she took of Ven to 'float about' - higher than it did before. She brought him to the surface, enabling Roxas amongst other things to Wield Ven's Keyblade (that doesn't contradict why Roxas himself reached that Keyblade - that doesn't change, he was traumatized by Xion's death. But there's why Roxas even tried to do that, and why he was able to do so in the first place - that I still associate with Xion).

 

[Sephiroth0812]

But that's what gets me about this whole mess seeing Mickey's involvement. I understand he feels like he bonded with Sora after what he's been through with D-Sora, but D-Riku was there for most of the ride as well, and Mickey's been closer to the real Riku than to all Soras combined. Again, Yen-Sid I do get on that matter. I also doubt he knew exactly what Riku's been through in R-R.
It's Mickey I'm back to hating full-force because of this stupid script issue.
Especially since Riku's been as main a player as Sora, if not mainer. Sora was comatose for so long and detached from the true plottings of KH2. Riku was active during that time. And - he helped Sora take down Xemnas. So what IS up with that, you stupid rat?

"We're connected, you and me" my tail feathers.

It's not only that, although BBS missed out on many occassions one can tell that Mickey also feels strongly bonded to Ven (and possibly Aqua), as he apparantly was searching for clues for a long time and said to Yen Sid that he's finally close to deduce where Ven's heart is. The wording implies Mickey isn't quite sure yet, but that issue might also be addressed in KH 3D.
You say Mickey was closer to Riku, that was even shown in the KH2-CGI ending with Riku tossing Mickey around.
Yet still, as seen in Days and most of KH 2 Riku seems to be more of a "behind the scenes"-player, and I would not say that Mickey had any ill intent by foregoing Riku at first...he was probably still flabbergasted by Yen Sid's mentioning of Xehanorts return, lol.

In the end, I would still contribute it to an over-simplified script with Sora as a stand-in for all others.
Or...did you ever think about it the other way? That mentioning Riku with a pause actually giving more emphasis on his involvement, like that this threat may be so severe that this time working behind the scenes won't be enough for Riku and he's absolutely NEEDED on the frontlines this time?

An interesting question is - why the hell should that even be a Keyblade Master's power? Removing Hearts somewhat makes sense because it involves a certain unlocking of the Heart, as seen and previously demonstrated in KH1 with the KoPH, albeit in a slightly different manner. But to fix a broken Heart? It has nothing to do with the Keyblade's pre-existing powers.

Well, I assumed that if a keyblade master can cut out a shard from a heart and/or injure it the opposite equivalent would also be reasonable. Or was only MX extracting Ven's heart after the neo-shadow incident a keyblade-master power and the actual "darkness-extraction" and cutting off a part of the heart were darkness-related powers?

Come to think about it, I think it ties in nicely with the concept of 'Death' Nomura's slowly shoving our way. Though Maleficent seems to have had a different end, what with her being attacked by the KoPH in KH1.

Wasn't Maleficent only transformed into her dragon form due to the KoPH-attack? And "died" later after being defeated.
Too bad it was never explained how Ursula was brought back, could have been a third example besides Maleficent and Oogie Boogie.

I still blame that particular issue on Xion. Xion absorbed so much out of Roxas that she eventually became able to look like Ven. In a sense, it might come to show she took all the Sora Roxas had to give and then began taking what he had left - Ven. That's also why Roxas began feeling weaker, as opposed to feeling normal regardless of how much power Xion syphoned out of him - they were both balancing Sora's powers between them, but then Xion began tapping into Roxas's 'core' - Ven.
I blame a lot of what happened after to Xion being reabsorbed into Roxas - similarly to how Roxas and Namine returning to Sora and Kairi let some of Sora's Memories of what happened in CoM resurface, Xion being absorbed by Roxas just might've let what she took of Ven to 'float about' - higher than it did before. She brought him to the surface, enabling Roxas amongst other things to Wield Ven's Keyblade (that doesn't contradict why Roxas himself reached that Keyblade - that doesn't change, he was traumatized by Xion's death. But there's why Roxas even tried to do that, and why he was able to do so in the first place - that I still associate with Xion).

Seeing all that Xion surely can go into competition with Naminé in the field of messing things up, *ggg*.

 

[Smile]

In the end, I would still contribute it to an over-simplified script with Sora as a stand-in for all others.

And that's part of why threads like this are opened - they're hurting Sora more than helping him by 'over-simplifying' things.

Or...did you ever think about it the other way? That mentioning Riku with a pause actually giving more emphasis on his involvement, like that this threat may be so severe that this time working behind the scenes won't be enough for Riku and he's absolutely NEEDED on the frontlines this time?

Doubtful. :V It means he's important enough for them to remember him at all but I somehow doubt that's what got them to pause like that.

Or was only MX extracting Ven's heart after the neo-shadow incident a keyblade-master power and the actual "darkness-extraction" and cutting off a part of the heart were darkness-related powers?

I think it can be seen as the other side of the KoPH. One let Darkness in while the other pulled it out. Only because sans the PoHs, human beings also have Darkness in their Hearts, it injured Ven.
Though looking at the facts makes me think the two aren't related, the way Ven's Heart was injured at first, and how it was injured now. Whether or not Vanitas returned to Ven, Ven's Heart was still stable. Sora made sure of that. But it's not that Ven's Heart was fractured - it was broken. Ven self-destructed. It's a whole new ball-game.

Wasn't Maleficent only transformed into her dragon form due to the KoPH-attack? And "died" later after being defeated.

But in R-R, Vexen talked about Maleficent. She wasn't dead, she was in the RoD.
It's the other villains who make less sense x.x;;;

Seeing all that Xion surely can go into competition with Naminé in the field of messing things up, *ggg*.

I personally feel like Xion explained a lot of things rather than complicated them.
At the very least we know WHAT SHE IS >_>;;;

 

[Sephiroth0812]

And that's part of why threads like this are opened - they're hurting Sora more than helping him by 'over-simplifying' things.

Somehow I get that feeling more often as time goes on that most humans aren't able to find the right "mix" between things and only switch from one extreme into the other...either make it too simple or too convoluted.

Doubtful. :V It means he's important enough for them to remember him at all but I somehow doubt that's what got them to pause like that.

Lol, touché...that's maybe just me again trying to find something positive in nearly everything.

I think it can be seen as the other side of the KoPH. One let Darkness in while the other pulled it out. Only because sans the PoHs, human beings also have Darkness in their Hearts, it injured Ven.
Though looking at the facts makes me think the two aren't related, the way Ven's Heart was injured at first, and how it was injured now. Whether or not Vanitas returned to Ven, Ven's Heart was still stable. Sora made sure of that. But it's not that Ven's Heart was fractured - it was broken. Ven self-destructed. It's a whole new ball-game.

But wouldn't that imply that MX's keyblade is a special one like the KoPH?
Yeah, Vanitas returning to Ven or not didn't matter...it was the backlash from the destruction of the x-blade which ripped Ven's heart apart.
There's also no doubt the second injury way surpassed the first one in severity...as even the connection with Sora couldn't sufficiently help anymore.
The cutscene however was dubbed "the return of the fractured heart" or something akin...just the cause of the injury and the magnitude were vastly different.

But in R-R, Vexen talked about Maleficent. She wasn't dead, she was in the RoD.
It's the other villains who make less sense x.x;;;

Ah, I forgot that part...
As for Oogie Boogie...maybe Maleficent just summoned him from the RoD?
Wasn't it so that Oogie Boogie had memory loss...just as AtW has now? A RoD influence? However then there would remain the question why Mickey, Riku and Aqua are not affected.

I personally feel like Xion explained a lot of things rather than complicated them.
At the very least we know WHAT SHE IS >_>;;

Yeah, to us players we got some explanations, but in-game she caused quite a mess despite not wanting to.
That is another similarity which may explain why she is shown together with Naminé in Re: Coded.
Hah, the Naminé mystery, I wonder when it will be addressed (if at all).

 

[Smile]

But wouldn't that imply that MX's keyblade is a special one like the KoPH?

I actually wasn't crowning the KoPH as anything special anymore. It was unlocking people's Hearts to Darkness. Assume there's a 'lock' on people's Hearts - and the Keyblade should work. Any Keyblade. MX just used his Keyblade to make the Darkness flow in the reverse direction. Though that might be part of what was special about the KoPH - letting something in, seeing how MX managed to extract Ven's Darkness as well as his own Heart using his Keyblade. (his Heart infiltrating Terra's vessel had less to do with the Keyblade at that point)

A RoD influence? However then there would remain the question why Mickey, Riku and Aqua are not affected.

I can only imagine the strength of Heart played a role in this. All the ones you mentioned are Keyblade Wielders. Two of them are True Masters, and one is a very likely candidate to join the ranks in the upcoming titles. Also, Oogie Boogie was thrust into the RoD after he lost to Sora, and AtW was flung there due to the explosion. I know I'm ranking Maleficent above AtW in strength of Heart here, but it does add up - Maleficent retained her Memories due to her Heart still being powerful enough to withstand the Darkness enough. She is, after all, the one Disney villain to make it as a true main antagonist, as Team-Rocket'ish as they made her and Pete to be. So it adds up, imo.

That is another similarity which may explain why she is shown together with Naminé in Re: Coded.

That, and it also helps explain Re:Coded itself Namine made the bugs, Xion brought Riku's Memories into the mess by absorbing them and then being absorbed by Sora

 

[Sakima]

Sora...the key who connects everything.

@Smile - That's why he is the most important character. And, not just because Ven's heart is hitch-hiking right now or that he contains three of the games most enigmatic characters inside...or that he and his friends have begun to undo Aqua's mistake by restoring Terra's heart and body to a recoverable form.

Actually, he is the most important because he literally gains his greatest power from his friends, which (potentially) makes him the most powerful character. Sora constantly borrows strength from the hearts and memories of the people who are important to him. Riku is an afterthought, because both Yen Sid and the King realize that Sora's power far outclasses anything Riku currently possesses right now. Riku is beginning to realize that power, but Sora as been wielding it for the better part of four games. As evidence, I cite these examples:

1) His acquisition of Riku's Keyblade in the first place.

2) His strongest offensive skills in the games relate to the "Trinity"

3) The most referenced Keyblades, other than the Kingdom Key, are Oathkeeper and Oblivion. I'm sure everyone understands at this point who they represent. (this trait of Sora's holds true with Roxas also)

4) The Drive Forms allow him to access his ultimate potentials far earlier than he normally would be able to, by directly absorbing the hearts of his friends temporarily.

5) He was able to call forth a means of escape from the Realm of Darkness through his connection to a heart of pure light (Kairi's), a hitherto impossible feat by any of the characters with a near-complete affiliation with light. Mickey and Riku are exceptions, as their hearts exist in a Light/Darkness equilibrium. As is Ansem the Wise, because even though he is of Light his thirst for vengeance granted him Dark abilities. And of course beings of dark or nothingness can come and go as they please.
6) The fact that he even had the ability to merge his heart with another so completely, that he could repair damage without rejection. As difficult as it is to find compatible blood for transfusion, how difficult must it be to graft two hearts together?

7) Even though they are technically reduced to nothing/absorbed/lost to darkness/are Master Xehanort's current ride, those shown in Blank Points are cognizant of Sora's actions and efforts; enough so to cheer him on.

8) When Namine was torn from Sora, she possessed his ability of "connection"; but only to those that Sora had ties to.

9) On the subject of Namine, the fact that Sora's decline into memory loss would have any impact on anyone else proves that he shares an uncanny connection with the hearts of others. No one ever said, "Hey, I forgot all about Donald and Goofy!" As I recall, that line was reserved to Sora exclusively.

I could go on and on, but the point is this: Sora is special because he is not by himself special. Nomura himself says so. His power is derived from his love for others.

And why then, is he the Keyblade's Chosen One, if he is not special?

Because it is a weapon of connection. It can open doors, or close them. Cross the Lanes Between, or lock them tight. Release the hearts of others, or seal them away. Still need proof?

Nomura mentioned in a recent interview that the Keyblades are peoples' analogues to Kingdom Hearts itself. Kingdom Hearts is nothing more than the unified - read: Connected - form of the all the worlds. So, if the Keyblade is supposed to be cut from the same cloth as Kingdom Hearts, then one would think that they would share a purpose and intent - as would the "Chosen Wielder".

In any case, I just realized that we (and to be honest, me specifically) may have strayed farrrr off topic. My apologies in that regard. :tongue:

 

[Smile]

Riku is an afterthought, because both Yen Sid and the King realize that Sora's power far outclasses anything Riku currently possesses right now

Guess that had Riku waited for half a minute, that Sora'd have saved himself from Xemnas then, eh?
This is part of what irks me about this. Sora's friends are his powers; that means he can do basically nothing on his own. I'll give him he managed to take down Xemnas. But one has to wonder if Riku couldn't have done the same on his own. And the fact that Sora is, for better or worse, with a party for most of the game makes that bit of Re:Coded to be even more pathetic. Riku lived on his own for those two years; Sora needs babysitters.
I'd sooner say Riku's an after-thought because he needs the power-up less.

1) His acquisition of Riku's Keyblade in the first place.

I personally blame that on Ven's Heart, actually, seeing how plot-wise, the KK would've had no reason to transfer over to Sora all on its own. The kid was never chosen as a Wielder by anyone else, and the KK didn't properly choose him until HB. So, yeah.

3) The most referenced Keyblades, other than the Kingdom Key, are Oathkeeper and Oblivion. I'm sure everyone understands at this point who they represent. (this trait of Sora's holds true with Roxas also)

I fail to see why that should matter in terms of strength. Unless you're talking Duel Wielding in which case that power is temporarily Sora's - until Ven is restored.

4) The Drive Forms allow him to access his ultimate potentials far earlier than he normally would be able to, by directly absorbing the hearts of his friends temporarily.

Dude, eating up your party members is pure game-play mechanisms. See the first time Sora went into Drive Form - both Donald and Goofy were still there. Go into any scene while still in a Drive form - your party's there.
Them disappearing is to keep the game from being THAT much easier, and to keep from needing to explain Anti-form to them.
Goofy: Gawrsh, Sora, about that Anti-form of yours?
Sora: ...................... ANTI FORM?!
Donald: *face-palm*

He was able to call forth a means of escape from the Realm of Darkness through his connection to a heart of pure light (Kairi's),

I'd hardly rush to jump to conclusions about that one. We know squat about it. The GIVEN answer in-game is that Sora opened it all on his own. And Light affiliation means squat in light of Sora's earlier statement about being influenced by the Darkness as well o3o

6) The fact that he even had the ability to merge his heart with another so completely, that he could repair damage without rejection. As difficult as it is to find compatible blood for transfusion, how difficult must it be to graft two hearts together?

I don't think it's actually that difficult, especially seeing how Ven's Heart was fractured. It's not two wholes, where they needed a catalyst like with MX-Terra, or XH-Riku. Sora was willing, and Ven needed the fusion.
I dare say, beyond that, that there's nothing saying it's overall difficult - just never done up to now.

9) On the subject of Namine, the fact that Sora's decline into memory loss would have any impact on anyone else proves that he shares an uncanny connection with the hearts of others. No one ever said, "Hey, I forgot all about Donald and Goofy!" As I recall, that line was reserved to Sora exclusively.

Because she did less of a number on their Memories. I dare say it had to do with her only making them forget as opposed to recreating new Memories in Sora's Heart.
That aside, they DID say they forgot about Donald and Goofy too. When they come to HB in KH2, they were told that everyone remembered ALL of them, indicating that they were forgotten as well.

Nomura mentioned in a recent interview that the Keyblades are peoples' analogues to Kingdom Hearts itself. Kingdom Hearts is nothing more than the unified - read: Connected - form of the all the worlds. So, if the Keyblade is supposed to be cut from the same cloth as Kingdom Hearts, then one would think that they would share a purpose and intent - as would the "Chosen Wielder".

...but that's hardly Sora centric. The Keychains being sort of the embodiment of connection are something all Keyblade Wielders and Masters can use, as seen in BBS. Mickey was arguably using Keychains, since I doubt he has both the StarSeeker and KKD. About the only exception is Riku but it's more that he didn't have the chance to use one, seeing how late in the series he got his Keyblade... and he was never intended to be playable originally. The staff added him in.

 

[Sakima]

First, let me reiterate that I think this may be going off topic, as the original topic was "Is Sora a plot device or a character". In any case I'll finish this reply here, but I think we should either begin (or continue if there is one) a post on why Sora's arguably the most important to the series.

At some point, I will read up on how to quote. Until then, my friendly adversary, bear with my numbers pointing to which statement of yours I'm challenging.

1) Nomura said that the Keyblade jumped to Sora when he touched the core of Riku's heart, in an attempt to save him from the darkness (an obvious danger). This presents rather clearly that the Keyblade judged Sora's concern and love for his friends a better suit for itself over Riku's thirst for power.

By God, did you play Birth by Sleep? The Keyblade's true strength and nature should be unquestionable after playing through the three storylines. Every time TAV relied on power, they nearly had their butts handed to them. However when they called on their friends they managed to trump the various odds against them; no matter how insurmountable they obviously were. Do I really need to provide examples? If so, please just load a save form the final save point in the Keyblade Graveyard and play any of the three ending sequences. You can come back to me with the quotes.

3) I will one day grow tired of mentioning this, as it should be obvious. Roxas is Sora. True, Roxas is also Ven. And true, Roxas ends up very much his own person. But the bottom line? Roxas is Sora. He is Sora's Nobody. And no matter how badly all the Ven-o-Philes out there want to deny that, that was what Nomura intended him to be, and he is.

Why is that important?

Because like all Nobodies, he inherited the characteristics of his Somebody. And to top it off, he even had a Heart that resonated with Sora's filling the gap in his chest (albeit a sleeping, comatose one). Which means that Sora's unique powers of connection (observed by the game's characters, in a few reports, and by the N-man himself) are Roxas's also.

And how does that relate to the Keyblades, specifically Oathkeeper and Oblivion?

As I have stated, the Keyblade is a Weapon of Connection. It either creates or destroys connections, and resonates more strongly in power anytime a Wielder is filled with the thoughts of people or things important to them. Who they are connected to, put more plainly. And there are NO two Keyblades that more strongly identify with individuals important to Sora and Roxas than Oblivion and Oathkeeper.

As you are so fond of observing, things like stats (strength, magic, etc...Drives! :wink are only contrivances in-game to allow the player to feel the characters are growing. But more accurately in the world of Kingdom Hearts, "strength" is not of body - it is of the Heart. Therefore, a Keyblade's in-game strength stat is meaningless; it's power draws from the "Keychain", which can be generally understood to represent the memory/feelings toward and or of a person, place, or world. The more important the connection, the more powerful the Keychain and the Keyblade it forms.

Thus, Oathkeeper and Oblivion, whether in the hands of Roxas or Sora, would be their "strongest" 'Blades because they represent the strongest connections.

4) You are very right, and I overstated! Good catch.

However, you cannot deny that the Drives draw on Sora's connection to Donald and Goofy, and eventually any friends who are fighting alongside him (as I recall, Final Form didn't need either Donald or Goofy in the party, just a full and conscious party. Please correct me if I'm wrong). Why is that important? Because even if he does not absorb them (cue funny sucking noise), he is channeling their strength.

And, I think we should all sidle back a bit on deciding that Sora is going to lose dual wielding; no one has remotely proven that Sora can call Ven's Keyblade exclusively. In fact, I would postulate that he can call the Keyblade of any person his heart is extremely close to (he freaking stole Riku's for most of the first game). I would not be in the least surprised if Nomura uses Sora' established power of Connection to allow him to call consistently higher numbers of Keyblades in special attacks, similar to Birth by Sleep's Command Styles (think Final Form, or the Roxas battle in KH2 Final Mix) Just a side note, but I liked the Command system better than the Drives anyway.

For more insight into this, please give a look over on Nomura's article in which he discusses Roxas and Sora's shared use of the Keyblade. Really interesting stuff!

(Are we still under 4)? I thinks so... )

If it was something he could do all on his own, Sora would have walked up to that lovely beach and said, "Open, Oh mighty door to the light!", and whisked him and Riku back to the Destiny Islands without any time for that sweet, sweet bromance. Instead, Kairi's quaint little bottle had to wash up, THEN yes, Sora's power (of Connection) opened the Door.

'Nuff said on that.

6) I'll concede that this is a tricky and admittedly unknown area (which, really, is why it so fun to speculate don't you think?). But your theory doesn't hold up. If it is so easy, why would Ven's heart choose Sora, instead of the kids who grew up with him? For that matter, why Sora out of ALL THE POSSIBLE HEARTS in the greater World? Please don't blame it on the poor writing, trying to tie everything to Sora.

His designated purpose IS the "Key that Connects Everything". The only bad writing is that Nomura has been unable to realize that he cannot create a normal boy, who is at the same time overwhelmingly special. In any case, Sora gave Ven a hand - out of seemingly innumerable other choices - proving there is something unique about him whether you blame it on bad writing or not.

9) Yup, ya got me. But only on Donald and Goofy. You still didn't disprove that Sora, and Namine through him, have an uncanny connection to people's Hearts not observed in or attributed to anyone else in the series' current universe.

(Cont.)

True. But we're talking about the level of resonance with the Keyblades. All Keyblade Wielders have to have some ability to empathize in order to effectively damage or heal another being with the weapon (have to understand a heart to be able to affect it, methinks). However, the title of "the Keyblade's Chosen Wielder" has not been tossed around lightly in the series. Sora has been the only character consistently called that. BY the King and Yen Sid no less! If you think you are wise enough to contradict two of the most experienced Keyblade Masters, be my guest...

And before you mention Riku was called that, that was only by Maleficent (and Donald and Goofy, I suppose, but they never know what they're talking about anyways).

Riku, from that point on was only mentioned as a Wielder. And, as we saw in Birth by Sleep anyone with a heart strong enough to manifest a Keyblade can become it's "Wielder", as long as the criteria of the Acquisition are met. Only one, though, was ever "Chosen" over another by the Keyblade, as far as we know; and that, my friend, is Sora.

 

[loke13]

*snip*

Its just for the passage you want quoted.

 

[Sakima]

Ummm...so, you just put *snip*? I'm a tad confused...

 

[Nayru's Love]

As I have stated, the Keyblade is a Weapon of Connection. It either creates or destroys connections,

Not really destroying connections. COM has shown us that hearts are still connected to each other, even if one doesn't remember someone else. The light that never goes out, y'know.

However, you cannot deny that the Drives draw on Sora's connection to Donald and Goofy, and eventually any friends who are fighting alongside him (as I recall, Final Form didn't need either Donald or Goofy in the party, just a full and conscious party. Please correct me if I'm wrong). Why is that important? Because even if he does not absorb them (cue funny sucking noise), he is channeling their strength.

Apparently there was a Nomura interview where he states how "Donald and Goofy disappearing" were just gameplay mechanics. I can't find the interview, though.

no one has remotely proven that Sora can call Ven's Keyblade exclusively.

You sure know your way around the block, newbie.
I haven't found that many people that realize that.

His designated purpose IS the "Key that Connects Everything". The only bad writing is that Nomura has been unable to realize that he cannot create a normal boy, who is at the same time overwhelmingly special. In any case, Sora gave Ven a hand - out of seemingly innumerable other choices - proving there is something unique about him whether you blame it on bad writing or not.

It could be explained as Sora's heartly instinct to connect to others, which could be an ability that anyone could do.

And before you mention Riku was called that, that was only by Maleficent (and Donald and Goofy, I suppose, but they never know what they're talking about anyways).

Riku, from that point on was only mentioned as a Wielder. And, as we saw in Birth by Sleep anyone with a heart strong enough to manifest a Keyblade can become it's "Wielder", as long as the criteria of the Acquisition are met. Only one, though, was ever "Chosen" over another by the Keyblade, as far as we know; and that, my friend, is Sora.

Riku was originally the chosen one, as implied by Lingering Sentiment. Sora wouldn't have had a keyblade if it weren't for Riku.

 

[Sakima]

@ Naryu's Love

Nature of the Keyblade - When I said destroyed, I was referring to the dissolution of a Heartless when defeated, or a Nobody. In either case, though, I could be wrong. Nomura himself stated, though, that the Keyblades allow people to interact with another Heart, or more specifically Kingdom Hearts. In my mind, at least, that implies (using the theme of the series thus far) that it "connects" two hearts to another. How that relates to damaging/restoring Somebodies, Heartless, and Nobodies...I will have to noodle some more over that one. ;-)

Drives - I know that their disappearance was gameplay, and Smile mentioned that a little bit ago also. However, the Drives do rely on Sora filling his Heart with the strength of his friends; even if canonically they don't actually disappear, his is channeling their power. Otherwise, why doe Valor only work when Goofy is in the Party, Wisdom with Donald, and Master with both? Those three forms represent his ties with the two friends he has most shared battle with...and reflect the personalities of each. Final Form is the only one that can be used with any two party members, because it signifies Sora's growth into his ultimate ability to channel the power of his friends' hearts, whether or not he has known them for a long time. I think that this shows that they are trying to advance Sora's power gradually by the end of KHII.

Sora's power to "borrow" Keyblades - Thanks, I appreciate the compliment. But is it really that rare of an opinion? What do you think on the subject?

Sora healing Ven - As I said, the goal of Nomura was to create a "normal" boy, but if anyone could do it why hasn't anyone else been mentioned as being able to do so? Sora is the only one who is ever mentioned specifically as being able to "Connect" people and impact their hearts, in the way he has throughout the games.

"Chosen" Wielder - Look at the terminology, and who was doing the choosing. Terra, a human, "chose" Riku as his successor. That was between two people. But in Sora's case, he was "Chosen" by no one other than the Keyblade itself. That's why the title "The Keyblade's Chosen Wielder" is only accurate in regard to Sora; all other known Wielders were Chosen by another Wielder. The Keyblade - independently - looked between two Hearts capable of Wielding it and made IT'S choice. That's why Sora is unique.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Sora healing Ven - As I said, the goal of Nomura was to create a "normal" boy, but if anyone could do it why hasn't anyone else been mentioned as being able to do so? Sora is the only one who is ever mentioned specifically as being able to "Connect" people and impact their hearts, in the way he has throughout the games.

Just regarding that point, Nomura actually specifically mentioned in context that anyone could have healed Ventus's first injury when talking about Vanitas's appearance.
He said that for example if Riku's heart had done this Vanitas would have looked like Riku, and so on.
It was just in this case that it was Sora's heart which choose to let itself get distracted by Ven's suffering and offer to help and heal him.
If Riku or i.e. Kairi would have been born at that time their hearts might have also reacted and offered Ven help.