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Elimate Xenmas/Xehanort/wanna be Ansem and they might not be evil. If Sora offered them some help to become whole again they possibly wouldn't do anything evil. You could go on and on about the possibilities of whether they(not just the original 6) would be evil or good so there really is no right or wrong answer to that.As for Kawaii.. your crazy ideas are pretty good.. (uuhm.. yeaah.. good try though xD.) Too bad they didn't come up with those, it might just actually work =)
I think the being whole again thing might work, but in the 'kill the heartless and nobody' way (if it exists?) because probably no one of the org members others exists, except for Roxas'. But the problem is: if they were to be whole again, wouldn't (the original 6 at least) still be evil? You know what I mean right? Maybe the only ones who wouldn't be evil are Axel and Demyx.
Yes....but since she wore white Sora and saved Kairi he believed she was all good.Do you think Sora in KH2 would have killed Namine too if she appeared in a dark cloak?
Terrorist? Seriously..terrorist. XDI don't know, I think what would happen is Sora might get Demyx and Axel on his side and the rest would try to kill.
The other thing, I think you guys baby the Org. members too much. Some of them like the apprentices can actually be considered terrorists because they turned against their leader and government( an established one), formed their own terrorist regime, and are trying to destroy it.
Thanks! ^_^First of all, great post by Ikkin. That was one of the things I was trying to get at but I couldn't put it into words. Nicely done!
Yeah, Axel, much as we all love him, is no hero. He might as well have said to Kairi, "You and I both miss someone we care about. Unfortunately, I need to use you to destroy the person you care about, so that I can see the person I care about! Tough luck." A lot of his methods are similar to the rest of the Organization's: he will use anyone and anything to get what he wants, and who cares about the consequences? It isn't until later that he sees how he messed things up, and does what he can to help Sora save Kairi.
Didn't have anywhere that I had to go, so I came back here to this city—this place of skyscrapers and neon. Even though I was running away from Saix—no, the Organization—I still came back here. I guess Nobodies really don't have anywhere they can go back to, huh?
"Well, what to do now?" Axel mumbled, staring up at the moon in the sky.
Maybe, the answer is closer than I think it is.
"U--uwaa!" Axel stepped forward, only to realized that he had stepped on something moving. He jumped backwards in shock – a large yellow dog sitting in front of him.
"...what the? What are you doin' here?" The dog's tail wagged furiously as Axel spoke.
"You alone?" As if in an answer, the dog began to whimper.
"Your pal's got no free time for you, huh?" Axel looked at the dog then started towards the skyscraper city.
There was a place he had to go to. Naimine's wish to meet Kairi. What would happen to Namine if they two were to meet?
Sora and Kairi...Roxas and Namine...
If Namine was to meet Kairi, probably the same thing that happened to Roxas would happen to her.
I want to help them meet.
Sora isn't forced to kill he is forced to choose which of course we know what he choose.
Sora being uninformed is not a justification of his actions. Sora isn't smart which made him an easy target for Xenmas and since he was the keybalde weilder(sp?) he was an even better candidate than anyone else but Sora just assuming that all the Org is evil was wrong as well as the other Org members listening to Xenmas. Both sides had choices that neither of them really sought out to find. (or at least it was presented that way)
There is school on the main island...but whatever Sora simple minded behavior is just proof that this boy shouldn't exactly be the judge of who deserves to live and die (in a sense). Sora never really goes out to seek knowledge or try to further understand all of this beyond what he is told and with that said is the lackluster Sora really the best Nomura could do?
No one said in the damn heat of battle you have to go "I wonder should I be doing this" but Sora isn't fighting 24/7 and has enough time to contemplate about bigger things than just "guys in black cloak are evil, destroy".
Yep. Terrorist. You can say whatever you want but the apprentices formed a terrorist regime to take down the government that their leader Ansem established.Terrorist? Seriously..terrorist. XD
I'm sorry but that post made my day.
Anyways call them what you will Sora still didn't try anything besides hack and slash and the Org didn't try to go against Xenmas. (except for you know who)
Yep. Terrorist. You can say whatever you want but the apprentices formed a terrorist regime to take down the government that their leader Ansem established.
Ikkin said:He might not be forced to kill, but he's definitely forced to fight. It's not like any of the Organization members are just standing there and Sora attacks them - they're all either doing something bad (Xaldin), or in a position where it could be assumed that they're doing something bad (Demyx), or just plain trying to kill Sora to get him out of their way (Xigbar, Luxord, Saix, Xemnas), and they all have weapons that they're willing to use on him.
No, you see he is first told that the nobodies shouldn't exist and in turn are bad with that information Sora goes out and does his "heroic duty" but like you said the one piece of evidence is Axel's change before he died so if Axel was able to change then why not the other members? The point is that Sora thinks that all nobodies and heartless are evil and need to be destroyed when it is clear that they can be either or.As I said in my other post - Sora doesn't think he needs to question whether the Organization is evil, because the Organization does a perfectly good job of making him think they are, Demyx aside. Sora has only one piece of evidence that they're not all evil - the way Axel acted in the few minutes before he died.
Well if the boy would think for a second of why this random guy called me a traitor I wouldn't be angry. I want to see some damn thoughts pass though this kids mind, I don't like the way Sora just brushes off important issues like "what is like to not exist or not have a heart" or even "why is this man with a eye patch and a scar yelling at me". No Sora just goes "Huh?" and then "RAWR!!"not that he doesn't have a right to but could he at least exhibit some sign of intelligence.Would you question whether Xigbar is evil, when he turns a dragon into a Heartless, then the next time you see him, he just appears and tells you you're a wimp and he's going to kill you because you're apparently a traitor to an Organization you never joined?
Do you realize how many thoughts the brain can make in a mere 10 minutes. Sora doesn't have to worry constantly about Riku and Kairi he just chooses to dwell on that one thing which probably just adds more fuel to the fire instead of thinking about other issues.I think part of this problem is that Sora really doesn't have enough time to be thinking about things, since he's constantly on the move - and constantly fighting. So if he's using his little downtime to worry more about Riku and Kairi than to wonder about whether Yen Sid was right about Nobodies - particularly since the Nobodies, apart from Axel, haven't done anything that would cause Sora to doubt Yen Sid.
When the hell did I say that I want Sora to aid the Org to destroy the damn government? You sound like President Bush which isn't normal even for you. Hey Puck do they have weapons of mass destruction too? Are they hording hearts from the people that need them? Are they on a psychological jihad? Wait no we have to stop Square from funding a Terrorist organization or all of the world will be effected by their terror. Let's hold open elections for the next S-E president so people will have a choice on the matter of terrorism. Hahaha, you are just making my day.Puck said:Judging from Kawa's words, he/she wants Sora to defy orders from his superiors, assist in destroying governments, and become a terrorist slime like a Org. XIII member.
Assumed that they are doing something bad? I just think your wording is off on that one since assuming someone is doing something bad is the same as assuming someone is doing something good i.e. Sora.
Anyways Sora isn't even confronted with the other Org members until late in the game(besides the one instance in HB). What the hell we they doing in that time? Plotting? Yeah but certainly not attacking him. Ooh they have weapons, well of course they have weapons! You think an Organization ruled by a madman isn't gonna have weapons?! Org: Either they attack this boy or get attacked by Xenmas. Sora: Either he must eliminates these people or others might get hurt. No where in there on either side is a thought of maybe I can do this instead of that, both are just see things in one way and that is that.
Sora never had the thought of letting them live cross his mind and like you said once he is in the fight he can't really stop or more or less doesn't want to stop. I have never seen Sora stop attacking while in a fight for moral reasons, even when Riku(in black cloak) tries to aid him in Land of dragons he attacks and doesn't look at what Riku was really doing(he was killing the heartless).
No, you see he is first told that the nobodies shouldn't exist and in turn are bad with that information Sora goes out and does his "heroic duty" but like you said the one piece of evidence is Axel's change before he died so if Axel was able to change then why not the other members? The point is that Sora thinks that all nobodies and heartless are evil and need to be destroyed when it is clear that they can be either or.
Well if the boy would think for a second of why this random guy called me a traitor I wouldn't be angry. I want to see some damn thoughts pass though this kids mind, I don't like the way Sora just brushes off important issues like "what is like to not exist or not have a heart" or even "why is this man with a eye patch and a scar yelling at me". No Sora just goes "Huh?" and then "RAWR!!"not that he doesn't have a right to but could he at least exhibit some sign of intelligence.
I have not said that the Org members aren't evil that is not the question here my point is that with the motives they had shouldn't Sora have at least considered thinking of something else besides destruction? Yes they do bad things to get what they longed for and in way so did someone like Riku. Riku joined the dark side to try and help Kairi and was manipulated just like the Org for something he wanted even if it meant betraying Sora or even hurting others, should Riku have been killed cause he was bad? No because he is your friend who is being controlled, right? Wrong because if you admit that someone can turn from good to bad then why not the opposite? Sora never sees or even thinks of that and that is my problem, albeit that Riku's cause wasn't as extreme but it still a very similar case. Not that he is evil, not that he is good but that he is a prime example of "attack now and ask questions later"
Do you realize how many thoughts the brain can make in a mere 10 minutes. Sora doesn't have to worry constantly about Riku and Kairi he just chooses to dwell on that one thing which probably just adds more fuel to the fire instead of thinking about other issues.
Was Sora really wondering whether Riku and Kairi were alright when he was doing Struggle? Probably not. Was he thinking about them when he was in the 100 acre woods? Maybe maybe not. Is he thinking about them in between the times of going to a new world/leaving one? Possibly. The list goes on and on (which doesn't really prove anything mind you cause he can make time) but the fact is Sora has time to think about other things and question stuff but he just chooses not to.
Sora not doubting Yensid is understandable for a follower but not for a hero who has to deal with these "conflicting" issues that can cause one to think about what it means to exist and whatnot. With that said I still hold my position of neutrality.