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Sora is Evil!!!



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Sir Jecht

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First of all, Sora is not evil. He was not killing Nobodies for spiteful reasons, he did it to protect his friends and all the worlds. He is a genuinely kind, lovable person, and you can tell by the way he easily makes new friends in all the different places he travels to. Plus, they're all really happy to see him again after a year, because they see him for who he is: a good friend and a good person.
Sora isn't evil of course he is too simple minded for that but the line between good and evil is a very thin line though Sora doesn't ever see that line because of the way he thinks/what is told. Sora isn't/wasn't the type of person to really think about things more in depth when they were given to him. He is what I call a one sided hero, he isn't wrong for what he does but he isn't necessarily the arbiter of justice in KH either.

I love them; they are one cool set of villains! But the key word in that sentence is villains. Yes, they lack hearts, the poor things. I'd feel a bit more sorry for the original six if they hadn't lost their hearts on purpose in the first place!! You can love the Organization all you want, but that doesn't necessarily make them good people. Also, we see the whole picture. Sora doesn't know what went on during the prologue, or about any of their backgrounds. He sees his friend/secret crush being kidnapped at different times by different members. He sees Xaldin trying to seperate the Beast from Belle. He sees Luxord's crew attack and almost kill Will Turner. He sees Demyx steal the Olympus Stone, which can help him fight Hades. Xigbar likes to taunt him. The list goes on.
I never said the Org was good I merely stated that there could have been other ways to get what they longed for and another way for Sora to deal with them instead of just giving them all the death penalty automatically. They are all at fault since one side doesn't try to go against their crazy master and the other is an angry little sheep.

So yes, he reacts. Yen Sid and King Mickey tell him that the Nobodies are dangerous, so of course he listens to them. But he did try to help Axel in Betwixt and Between, and sounded sad when he died. So he doesn't completely see things in black and white. He just does the best he can with the knowledge he has.
No you see just because you respect someone doesn't mean you should always listen to them and follow their every word like a blind sheep. Sora is sorta the type of hero I hate because he never seems to think about the whole picture or even about the back story behind all of what's going on, he just accepts what he is told like a good dog and obeys without even thinking about the situation for himself. If Sora really didn't see the world in black and white then we have would seen him try to reason or give them other alternatives but Sora doesn't do that he instead "kills" until the supposed threat is gone. Hell what I really don't understand is Sora's reason for killing Demyx, the boy should at least be able to take certain cues from people and the way they act especially Demyx.
 

Antiquity

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Nobody ever thinks about the pawns their pawns and unless your playing chess then you care nothing for the pawns! Anyways your last statement confuses me a bit, do you mean the Org is nothing against the universe filled with hearts and or it's was better for them to live than die? o_O

It was sorta hard for me to put into words correctly. ^^; I meant that it'd be better to be a shell than be dead. For the last part, why should the Organization try and get almost all the hearts of the universe or worlds, whatever, just for themselves than let millions among trillions or more (is that even possible o_O) people lose theirs? That's close to what I'm trying to say. My mind knows how to word it, but I don't know how to say it!
 

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Well, this game was intended for a younger audience, So the simple aspect of "Good triumphs over Evil, regardless of how noble the intentions of the antagonist are" could be sold. I mean, we're the only ones who bother discussing controversies like homosexuality and morals, some people play the game because its fun. You don't see a 7-year old pausing to consider Sora's actions and beliefs.


2000th post yay me...
 

Puck

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When you think about it, all Organisation 13 wanted was to have hearts, yet Sora killed them one by one.
This makes Sora evil.
I don't think his motives to destroy Organisation 13 were ever revealed.
Why did he do it?

Mainly he did it to stop them from sending out Heartless to kill everyone. But when he kills them, they don't actually die. They fade away into the darkness and await the destruction of their heartless. Once the heartless is dead, the heart disappears and joins with the nobody and the nobody becomes whole again. That's what i gathered from Nomura's comments in the Ultimania.

Pretty cool, but the only downside is Xehanort is going to be back.
 

Eternamente926

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Tell me, would you rather dispose of thirteen guilty humans who have caused inconsiderable amount of damage or let thousands of innocent victims die, knowing full-well that you could have stopped them from dying?

Sora did not want to kill Organization 13, but he was thrown into situations where he had to fight; sometimes to the death. Organization XIII had no justification whatsoever to do what they did, and they deserved to be stopped, even if it meant killing them off one by one.

That sums it up lol.

Sora isn't evil... he did what he was forced into. To me, Sora is a tragic hero in some regards... he's been uprooted from his home, thrown into a battle he didn't have anything to do with... and he has several voices telling him to defeat this bad guy and defeat that bad guy.

But yeah, when someone's attacking you with a giant weapon... are you going to stand there and let them do it based upon why they're doing what they're doing? Heck no, you're going to defend yourself.
 
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anyway, if the Organisation takes hearts, the victims will still become a heartless, so Sora anyway kill them to put a stop to this.

P.S. This is my first post
 

shadow_of_light

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i don't think its possible to "kill" something that 1) doesn't have a heart, 2) shouldn't even and doesn't even really exist, and 3) is just the physical manifestation of nothingness.
so, i understand where you're coming from, but no. sora's not evil. he just made their fading come sooner.
 

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see, i gree with some of these, but come on. reason 1 he isn't evil is thatthe Org needed to be stopped, murder, destruction of hearts, attempted xenocide(destruction of world(s)), and more these guys, for the most part were rotten. 2) can you blame him for being stupid and simple-minded half the time? he lived on an isolated island, he has never even heard of school and the only thing(as far as we know) his mom says to him all day is "time for dinner." 3) if someone was coming after you with chakrams or axes or laser swords, etc. would you just sit there and say "hmmmmmm... should i really be fighting?" and debate ethics while getting chopped to bits and set on fire? and finally 4) the argument that as far as he knew all Nobodies wanted to cause him harm and the fact that he never questioned it. he listened to Yen Sid and King Mickey and it was completely true at the time, even Axel, whom you were exalting, kidnapped Kairi and meant Sora harm at the beginning. it was not until later, when he decided to help Roxas who was inside Sora did he help sora and turn "good"
 

SwagStarIV

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well i dont know i if somone said this but sora didnt kill axel or roxas. he didnt kill the dude with the monkey wrench or dude with blue hair he didnt kill vexen (i think riku killed vexen but i kno he killed monkey wrentch and blue hair dude) only ones sora killed was the ones in kh2 larxene marluxia and with that i count 8 riku killed 3 roxas is half dead axel killed himself so sora is a good guy in my eyes second if they became whole wouldnt they just go back to the human form like roxas whole would be sora or would he b someone else? (ven maybe) i kno nomura said they were dif but still
 

Organization_42

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First of all, great post by Ikkin. That was one of the things I was trying to get at but I couldn't put it into words. Nicely done!

even Axel, whom you were exalting, kidnapped Kairi and meant Sora harm at the beginning. it was not until later, when he decided to help Roxas who was inside Sora did he help sora and turn "good"

Yeah, Axel, much as we all love him, is no hero. He might as well have said to Kairi, "You and I both miss someone we care about. Unfortunately, I need to use you to destroy the person you care about, so that I can see the person I care about! Tough luck." A lot of his methods are similar to the rest of the Organization's: he will use anyone and anything to get what he wants, and who cares about the consequences? It isn't until later that he sees how he messed things up, and does what he can to help Sora save Kairi.

No you see just because you respect someone doesn't mean you should always listen to them and follow their every word like a blind sheep. Sora is sorta the type of hero I hate because he never seems to think about the whole picture or even about the back story behind all of what's going on, he just accepts what he is told like a good dog and obeys without even thinking about the situation for himself. If Sora really didn't see the world in black and white then we have would seen him try to reason or give them other alternatives but Sora doesn't do that he instead "kills" until the supposed threat is gone. Hell what I really don't understand is Sora's reason for killing Demyx, the boy should at least be able to take certain cues from people and the way they act especially Demyx.

Demyx is awesome! I think he really has Sora confused at times ("Who is this kook?") because he's nothing like any of the other Nobodies that they've encountered so far. Now THIS I blame Yen Sid for because he specifically told them that the Organization would try to trick them and pretend to have feelings, etc. Sora hasn't had enough experience with the Nobodies yet (at least none that he can remember) that would lead him to believe that Demyx really doesn't want to fight, and maybe he really is just being friendly. It's all got to be a trap.

In Sora's world, anyone who attacks his friends is a bad person. And as I already said, he doesn't see all the parts in the game that we see. He doesn't live in the Castle That Never Was. He doesn't know that they all have different motives and that some are less evil than others. Up until he meets Axel, he doesn't even know what their goal is. He just knows they're hurting people in other worlds. Then, when he finds out that all they want is to be complete beings again, he also learns at the same time that they've been manipulating him to achieve their goal. Oh yeah, and they kidnapped his girlfriend. They also know what happened to his best friend, but guess what? They're not telling. They just drop hints that whatever it was, it was bad. Any reasonable person would be angry at them.

But what happens with him and Axel is proof that he doesn't see the world in black and white. He knocks away the Dusks attacking Axel in Betwixt and Between and then they fight side by side. Sora's also upset by his death, and he DOES ask Axel why he did all the things he did. So he doesn't always strike first, ask questions never. Also, before he knows Riku's been transformed, he thinks he's Xehanort's Heartless. Instead of attacking him, he basically says, "I don't like you, but you did save Kairi. I have to be grateful for that." And he thinks he's talking to the guy who possessed Riku, destroyed their home and almost killed him a dozen times over!
 

Sir Jecht

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Eternamente926 said:
Sora isn't evil... he did what he was forced into. To me, Sora is a tragic hero in some regards... he's been uprooted from his home, thrown into a battle he didn't have anything to do with... and he has several voices telling him to defeat this bad guy and defeat that bad guy.
Sora isn't forced to kill he is forced to choose which of course we know what he choose.

Elements of lit said:
[SIZE=-1]A tragic hero is a character in a work of fiction (often the protagonist) who exhibits a tragic flaw, also known as fatal flaw, which eventually leads to his or her demise.[/SIZE]
I believe Sora's only tragic flaw is his stupidity besides the home part he isn't really a tragic hero per se.

But yeah, when someone's attacking you with a giant weapon... are you going to stand there and let them do it based upon why they're doing what they're doing? Heck no, you're going to defend yourself.
We're not just talking about one battle because of course your main reaction is to fight back but we we're talking about Sora's so called only choice to destroy the members of the org.

Angel's Prayer said:
Well, this game was intended for a younger audience, So the simple aspect of "Good triumphs over Evil, regardless of how noble the intentions of the antagonist are" could be sold. I mean, we're the only ones who bother discussing controversies like homosexuality and morals, some people play the game because its fun. You don't see a 7-year old pausing to consider Sora's actions and beliefs.
Someone brought up the question and the ones who have more in depth thinking than a 7-year old decided to argue/analyze. Nothing wrong with having a reason for thinking Sora is this or that, it's just opinions.

shadow_of_light said:
i don't think its possible to "kill" something that 1) doesn't have a heart, 2) shouldn't even and doesn't even really exist, and 3) is just the physical manifestation of nothingness.
so, i understand where you're coming from, but no. sora's not evil. he just made their fading come sooner.
I agree but it's harder to say fade into nothingness than just kill. :D

Organization_42 said:
Demyx is awesome! I think he really has Sora confused at times ("Who is this kook?") because he's nothing like any of the other Nobodies that they've encountered so far. Now THIS I blame Yen Sid for because he specifically told them that the Organization would try to trick them and pretend to have feelings, etc. Sora hasn't had enough experience with the Nobodies yet (at least none that he can remember) that would lead him to believe that Demyx really doesn't want to fight, and maybe he really is just being friendly. It's all got to be a trap.
I'll agree with that.

In Sora's world, anyone who attacks his friends is a bad person. And as I already said, he doesn't see all the parts in the game that we see. He doesn't live in the Castle That Never Was. He doesn't know that they all have different motives and that some are less evil than others. Up until he meets Axel, he doesn't even know what their goal is. He just knows they're hurting people in other worlds. Then, when he finds out that all they want is to be complete beings again, he also learns at the same time that they've been manipulating him to achieve their goal.
Sora being uninformed is not a justification of his actions. Sora isn't smart which made him an easy target for Xenmas and since he was the keybalde weilder(sp?) he was an even better candidate than anyone else but Sora just assuming that all the Org is evil was wrong as well as the other Org members listening to Xenmas. Both sides had choices that neither of them really sought out to find. (or at least it was presented that way)

Yeah, Axel, much as we all love him, is no hero. He might as well have said to Kairi, "You and I both miss someone we care about. Unfortunately, I need to use you to destroy the person you care about, so that I can see the person I care about! Tough luck." A lot of his methods are similar to the rest of the Organization's: he will use anyone and anything to get what he wants, and who cares about the consequences? It isn't until later that he sees how he messed things up, and does what he can to help Sora save Kairi.
The point there is that Axel changed, yes he did bad things but he showed that each side has a choice and can even be persuaded to do something right. Sora never thought of that and neither did some of the Org members. Also if Axel cares then isn't that a feeling? =S

Oh yeah, and they kidnapped his girlfriend. They also know what happened to his best friend, but guess what? They're not telling. They just drop hints that whatever it was, it was bad. Any reasonable person would be angry at them.
Just cause I'm angry doesn't mean I throw out my moral ideals and values. To not become completely blinded by revenge is a commodity in KH each side good and bad is fueled by it in some way and neither of them see past that. I want to see some real conflicting thoughts and questions being throw around in kH, I know I'm not gonna get that it's just what I want to see..

But what happens with him and Axel is proof that he doesn't see the world in black and white. He knocks away the Dusks attacking Axel in Betwixt and Between and then they fight side by side. Sora's also upset by his death, and he DOES ask Axel why he did all the things he did. So he doesn't always strike first, ask questions never. Also, before he knows Riku's been transformed, he thinks he's Xehanort's Heartless. Instead of attacking him, he basically says, "I don't like you, but you did save Kairi. I have to be grateful for that." And he thinks he's talking to the guy who possessed Riku, destroyed their home and almost killed him a dozen times over!
Key thing there is Ansem/Riku saved Kairi, if he didn't do that he would have attacked just like he did with the others. Also like I said Axel changed he helped Sora even to the point of killing himself so Sora only sees that if they help you they must not be all bad so thus the inner conflict between good and evil is something Sora never really questions until Sora is aided by said evil threat but even that isn't enough to make the Boy think beyond the box.

Rynjin said:
see, i agree with some of these, but come on. reason 1 he isn't evil is that the Org needed to be stopped, murder, destruction of hearts, attempted xenocide(destruction of world(s)), and more these guys, for the most part were rotten.
Yeah we know that but that doesn't mean some can't be changed if given the chance.

2) can you blame him for being stupid and simple-minded half the time? he lived on an isolated island, he has never even heard of school and the only thing(as far as we know) his mom says to him all day is "time for dinner."
There is school on the main island...but whatever Sora simple minded behavior is just proof that this boy shouldn't exactly be the judge of who deserves to live and die (in a sense). Sora never really goes out to seek knowledge or try to further understand all of this beyond what he is told and with that said is the lackluster Sora really the best Nomura could do?

3) if someone was coming after you with chakrams or axes or laser swords, etc. would you just sit there and say "hmmmmmm... should i really be fighting?" and debate ethics while getting chopped to bits and set on fire?
No one said in the damn heat of battle you have to go "I wonder should I be doing this" but Sora isn't fighting 24/7 and has enough time to contemplate about bigger things than just "guys in black cloak are evil, destroy".

4) the argument that as far as he knew all Nobodies wanted to cause him harm and the fact that he never questioned it. he listened to Yen Sid and King Mickey and it was completely true at the time, even Axel, whom you were exalting, kidnapped Kairi and meant Sora harm at the beginning. it was not until later, when he decided to help Roxas who was inside Sora did he help sora and turn "good"
The proof is right in your sentence "Sora never questioned it" basically he followed what they said instead of thinking for himself for a second. Even if Sora thought about what was going on and still ended up killing the Org it still would show he is not just follower. Also like I said before until one of the bad guys helps him does he not kill them.

Well that was fun...

Oh and if anyone is wondering I don't think Sora is evil I just question his methods nor do I think the Org is good I just question their motives. I is neutral...
 
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clouds nobody

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I agree with sephiroth they just wanted to see the king,riku,and kaiari

P.S how do u start forum please let me know
 
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[N]intendofan

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Ok.. I agree with most of the reactions.. eccept for Kawaiikousuke.. nah just kiddin. Ok, what do you think; if Riku (original Keyblade master) was in Sora's place, would he have done the same thing as Sora or would he have done the stuf Kawaiikousuke would liked him to do? =P I mean, Riku is kinda smarter than Sora, right? xD
 

Sir Jecht

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Ok.. I agree with most of the reactions.. eccept for Kawaiikousuke.. nah just kiddin. Ok, what do you think; if Riku (original Keyblade master) was in Sora's place, would he have done the same thing as Sora or would he have done the stuf Kawaiikousuke would liked him to do? =P I mean, Riku is kinda smarter than Sora, right? xD

You can just call me Kawaii.

Anyways Riku is smarter than Sora but he tends to see one side of the spectrum like Sora does but in a different way. Riku felt he had to "re" join Ansem to fight Roxas and get Sora back but he could have just trained his ass off to beat Roxas instead opening up to the darkness again but then again he would not have been able to wear the cool blindfold. lol

I don't know what Riku would have done since Riku has changed from the way he was KH1. I don't think he would have done exactly what Sora did but I really think that he would have certainly ended up killing the Org in the end. (except for Demyx maybe)

Next do I have to reply about what I would think Kairi would do in that position too or what? lol
 

[N]intendofan

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lol.. Why do you think he would have spared Demyx? (don't get me wrong, Demyx rocks, he shouldn't have died so soon.. stupid sora.. xD) and yeah, Sora did have to question if he could have solved it in a different way. Maybe Sora's thoughts after the Axel part were: well, i already killed a couple o' them, so why not finish it? -,-
 
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Sir Jecht

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lol.. Why do you think he would have spared Demyx? (don't get me wrong, Demyx rocks, he shouldn't have died so soon.. stupid sora.. xD)
Cause Demyx is all like weak and whiny and vulnerable and Riku isn't really a person who would kill off someone like Demyx like Sora did.

Maybe Sora's thoughts after the Axel part were: well, i already killed a couple o' them, so why not finish it? -,-
Sure why not..
 

[N]intendofan

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Yeah ok you've got a point there. And you're saying Sora could've solved it a different way.. can you think of any? (just asking..? I agree though)
 

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Kawaiikousuke, i will subscribe to your newsletter please, i totally agree with you.

Sora is indeed simple minded, and i enjoy when the hero is faced with the problems of what is good and what is evil and actualy thinks for a minute! I mean why take Yen sid's word he could be a liar, how can anyone know that nobodys have no emotions?

Sure there are those Org. members that were asking for it, but please!!! Demyx??? What did he do?? Even If Sora just left him alone i don't really think that it he would create the Kingdom's Heart by himself.
The plan to rebuild the world to his image (in my understanding) was Xemnas's alone the others were only in for their own hearts. Sure Luxord, Xaldin and Xigbar were a bunch of anoying douchebags and would have killed us if they had the chance. I can't say the same about Vexen, Zexion, Laxeus, Demyx or Axel.

And did Sora knew about Roxas at the begining of KH2? I don't think so... so wouldn't you guys be curious about who the hell was this Roxas everybody kept talking about, insted of hack n' slashing first and questions..... never?????
 

Sir Jecht

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Yeah ok you've got a point there. And you're saying Sora could've solved it a different way.. can you think of any? (just asking..? I agree though)
Well since nobody in the game really explained other way for people to become complete I don't have a solid answer but I do have a few.

If Sora and Roxas could be rejoined then I would think that maybe the other Org members could have been too. Though that whole true-self thing and heartlesses and whatnot confuses me so it could or could work. Someone tell me would that work the same as it did with Sora and Roxas?

The Org all really seemed to be controlled by Xenmas so if Sora could persuaded some of the Org members to fight along side they could defeated Xenmas together but that requires Sora to use intelligence and greater vocab skills than he has. lol It could have been tried though..

Find a way to make them complete without hurting other people. (easier said than done but I'm not Tetsuya Nomura so I don't have to come up with a real plan of action in a world I didn't create)

Crazy ideas that don't really involve Sora:

Live your life as a nobody and just shut up about the whole heart thing..I would rather enjoy being able to burst into flames and not get hurt rather than burn to crisp.

Build a time machine and reverse whatever happened that turned you into a heartless/nobody.

Get into one of those chamber things that Sora was in and wait till someone finds a way to make nothing into something.

Try to make a baby with someone who has a heart. I don't know how that would help at all but it would take away some of the stress of being nothing.

Find the cutest thing in the world(in Axel's case Roxas) and try to have feelings for it, if you have feelings for it then you don't need to be complete cause you are.

Buy a heart with lots of munny...

That's all I got for now...

Oh and thanks Xugoh. That makes like 3 out of like 1,000++ people who agree with me XD
 
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[N]intendofan

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Ok, for Xugoh; Sora probably believed Yen Sid because he's the one (or at least he was told so by Donald and Goofy) who trained King Mickey soo that would make SORA believe everything he said (i guess). And Sora did think about the Roxas stuff for a couple of seconds but he came to the (brilliant -,-) conclusion that they were just trying to confuse him.
As for Kawaii.. your crazy ideas are pretty good.. (uuhm.. yeaah.. good try though xD.) Too bad they didn't come up with those, it might just actually work =)
I think the being whole again thing might work, but in the 'kill the heartless and nobody' way (if it exists?) because probably no one of the org members others exists, except for Roxas' (Roxas could just 'fuse' together with Sora). But the problem is: if they were to be whole again, wouldn't (the original 6 at least) still be evil? You know what I mean right? Maybe the only ones who wouldn't be evil are Axel and Demyx.
 
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