Sora and Riku in TWTNW explanations



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ZoroarkF

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Can someone please explain in what version of the world they were while the different events were happening? Thanks
 

DarkosOverlord

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The way I gathered, there's no "version" of the World.
The World That Never Was is a World from the Realm Between, and as such it can exists in multiple places at once, even different Realms.
So, don't think as it like a World with different faces, but a single World projected everywhere everytime.

Or something like this.
 

ZoroarkF

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The way I gathered, there's no "version" of the World.
The World That Never Was is a World from the Realm Between, and as such it can exists in multiple places at once, even different Realms.
So, don't think as it like a World with different faces, but a single World projected everywhere everytime.

Or something like this.
Ok but i mean for example where is sora while speaking to xemnas and xigbar? That is something i don't understand. His body is with riku, so sora isn't phisically there with xemnas? This is an example
 

Hirokey123

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Well it might be more clear if put it into a graph format....

TWTNW: (marked by the world logo appearing)
-Sora arrives here and is put to sleep

Sora's dream of TWTNW:
(Marked by the fact KH2's Kingdom Hearts can be seen in the sky)
-Sora's sleeping body ends up here and since he's still sleeping that means he's have another separate dream, which is the bubble he is floating in as Riku can see glimpses of the dream inside on the bubble's surface.
-Riku's story mostly takes place here.

Sora's dream of his dream of TWTNW: (Marked by Sora's living memories of people running all over the place)
-Sora's dream self/mind/whatever is running around this place and that's what his playable story is.

*X-amount of time later*

Sora's Dream of TWTNW:
-Sora physically dives out of this dream and into the next layer
-Riku watches Sora vanish after failing to wake him up

Sora's Dream of the Dream of TWTNW:
-Sora's physical body arrives in this dream from above (which is why he is suddenly diving down from the sky) and "wakes up" here, Sora has effectively replaced his dream self in this dream.

*One Xemnas battle later*

Sora's Dream of the Dream of TWTNW:

-Sora's physical body remains here and is carried away by the norts back to reality after he falls asleep at the end of the Xemnas battle.

Abyss of sleep:

-Sora's mind/heart/whatever falls into this abyss after falling asleep at the end of the Xemnas battle
-Sora's dream Riku is in vanishes into the abyss with him taking Riku along for the ride, Riku fights Ansem's Shadow here and escapes.

TWTNW:
-Sora's sleeping body has been set in the 13th throne by one of the Norts.
-Riku has finally escaped Sora's dreams and returned to reality here, a portal back into Sora's dreams appears at the point of which he appeared.

Though it should be noted that while I sort of simplified this technically since the real TWTNW is between sleeping and waking, it's both real and a dream itself where there is no distinction. So really the layers be..

TWTNW which is simultaneous real and a dream (As Xigbar said there is no separation here)
Dream of that dream (2 fold nightmare as Ansem said)
Dream of that dream of that Dream (3 fold clusterfudge)
Abyss
 
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ZoroarkF

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Well it might be more clear if put it into a graph format....

TWTNW: (marked by the world logo appearing)
-Sora arrives here and is put to sleep

Sora's dream of TWTNW:
(Marked by the fact KH2's Kingdom Hearts can be seen in the sky)
-Sora's sleeping body ends up here and since he's still sleeping that means he's have another separate dream, which is the bubble he is floating in as Riku can see glimpses of the dream inside on the bubble's surface.
-Riku's story mostly takes place here.

Sora's dream of his dream of TWTNW: (Marked by Sora's living memories of people running all over the place)
-Sora's dream self/mind/whatever is running around this place and that's what his playable story is.

*X-amount of time later*

Sora's Dream of TWTNW:
-Sora physically dives out of this dream and into the next layer
-Riku watches Sora vanish after failing to wake him up

Sora's Dream of the Dream of TWTNW:
-Sora's physical body arrives in this dream from above (which is why he is suddenly diving down from the sky) and "wakes up" here, Sora has effectively replaced his dream self in this dream.

*One Xemnas battle later*

Sora's Dream of the Dream of TWTNW:

-Sora's physical body remains here and is carried away by the norts back to reality after he falls asleep at the end of the Xemnas battle.

Abyss of sleep:

-Sora's mind/heart/whatever falls into this abyss after falling asleep at the end of the Xemnas battle
-Sora's dream Riku is in vanishes into the abyss with him taking Riku along for the ride, Riku fights Ansem's Shadow here and escapes.

TWTNW:
-Sora's sleeping body has been set in the 13th throne by one of the Norts.
-Riku has finally escaped Sora's dreams and returned to reality here, a portal back into Sora's dreams appears at the point of which he appeared.

Though it should be noted that while I sort of simplified this technically since the real TWTNW is between sleeping and waking, it's both real and a dream itself where there is no distinction. So really the layers be..

TWTNW which is simultaneous real and a dream (As Xigbar said there is no separation here)
Dream of that dream (2 fold nightmare as Ansem said)
Dream of that dream of that Dream (3 fold clusterfudge)
Abyss
That is exactly what i was looking for. Thank you for existing.
I have only one question left. How is the drop mechanic justified when sora is dreaming and you play as his mind/self/whatever?
 

Hirokey123

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I am pretty sure at that point it's mostly a gameplay mechanic that is left there because it be really unfortunate if they disabled the drop bar when Sora lands in the world, because then once you save as Sora in that world there the mechanic would of been gone permanently which is bad since it's a pretty crucial mechanic. So they don't properly get rid of it until after you've passed Sora's final save point, this way once you beat the game and load up your save before Sora's final boss the mechanic is active again. Which also gives you the ability to turn it off for Riku again if you so chose just by re-fighting Sora's last boss. Not to mention it sucks trying to go through TWTNW without all those nice boosts the drop bar can give you.

But for all intents and purposes from a story perspective Sora and Riku are no longer dropping, they are both are active the moment Sora first fell asleep in TWTNW. (Which is why once Sora is put to sleep Riku's story is forcibly activated and we switch to controlling Sora) granted I am taking a liberal use of the word "active". Since technically by virtue of being inside of his dream and dream within a dream he is still "sleep" even when he's "awake" in those dreams. >.>
 

ZoroarkF

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I am pretty sure at that point it's mostly a gameplay mechanic that is left there because it be really unfortunate if they disabled the drop bar when Sora lands in the world, because then once you save as Sora in that world there the mechanic would of been gone permanently which is bad since it's a pretty crucial mechanic. So they don't properly get rid of it until after you've passed Sora's final save point, this way once you beat the game and load up your save before Sora's final boss the mechanic is active again. Which also gives you the ability to turn it off for Riku again if you so chose just by re-fighting Sora's last boss. Not to mention it sucks trying to go through TWTNW without all those nice boosts the drop bar can give you.

But for all intents and purposes from a story perspective Sora and Riku are no longer dropping, they are both are active the moment Sora first fell asleep in TWTNW. (Which is why once Sora is put to sleep Riku's story is forcibly activated and we switch to controlling Sora) granted I am taking a liberal use of the word "active". Since technically by virtue of being inside of his dream and dream within a dream he is still "sleep" even when he's "awake" in those dreams. >.>
Ok, got it. Thanks a lot you saved my brain
 

SoraForeverKH

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Wow! Aheheh... So a dream of a dream in a dream of a dream...? Agh! Nomura, what kind of thoughts go through your head man?! So confusing! DDD definitely perplexes my mind to no end! But, yes, but thank you, Hirokey123, that information you provided was so helpful and very well put. ^^
As Sora though, my head is spinning! (laughs)
 

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All the "realm of sleep" is, is dreams. Worlds can dream and people can dream. When a world falls to darkness/goes to the Realm of Darkness, they also fall asleep and they dream. The worlds we go to in Dream Drop Distance are dreams of worlds that were freed from darkness, but were not freed from their sleep. Yen Sid sent Sora and Riku back to Destiny Islands before it fell to darkness, so that they could sort of "ride" Destiny Islands into darkness, therefore ride it into sleep. Once they rode it into sleep and fell asleep, they unknowingly opened the first Sleeping Keyhole and were transported to the next sleeping world/the first sleeping world from the present-day that they need to save.

When they entered the realm of sleep, Riku unknowingly dove into Sora's dreams and became a Dream Eater to protect Sora from Nightmares. So, Sora traveled through the dreams of worlds that were freed from darkness, but were not freed from their sleep, while Riku traveled through Sora's dreams.

The World That Never Was is not a sleeping world. It's a real world in the Realm Between. There's a cutscene where Yen Sid says that Sora and Riku will eventually end up out of the sleeping worlds and into a world that's in the Realm Between. That world was The World That Never Was. It's not a sleeping world, but when Riku arrived there, he was still in the realm of sleep since he was still in Sora's dreams and has been the whole journey. After Riku defeats Ansem, Seeker of Darkness, he's brought back to the real world and out of the realm of sleep. When Sora arrived at The World That Never Was, he was in the real world and out of the dream. But, Young Xehanort dragged Sora back into the realm of sleep, but this time, he dragged Sora into Sora's own dreams instead of the world's dreams. Then, Xigbar dragged Sora into a second sleep. So, Sora's sleeping body was in Sora's own dreams which is why Riku saw it before he fought Anti Black Coat. Anyways, after Young Xehanort successfully puts Sora into a weird sleep coma by dragging him further and further into dreams, he brings him back to the real world and places him on one of the Organization XIII thrones.

Riku still had his Dream Eaters and his Dream Eater powers in the real world of The World That Never Was because Sora was still asleep. He still had a weird Dream Eater connection to him.
 

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All the "realm of sleep" is, is dreams. Worlds can dream and people can dream. When a world falls to darkness/goes to the Realm of Darkness, they also fall asleep and they dream. The worlds we go to in Dream Drop Distance are dreams of worlds that were freed from darkness, but were not freed from their sleep. Yen Sid sent Sora and Riku back to Destiny Islands before it fell to darkness, so that they could sort of "ride" Destiny Islands into darkness, therefore ride it into sleep. Once they rode it into sleep and fell asleep, they unknowingly opened the first Sleeping Keyhole and were transported to the next sleeping world/the first sleeping world from the present-day that they need to save.

When they entered the realm of sleep, Riku unknowingly dove into Sora's dreams and became a Dream Eater to protect Sora from Nightmares. So, Sora traveled through the dreams of worlds that were freed from darkness, but were not freed from their sleep, while Riku traveled through Sora's dreams.

The World That Never Was is not a sleeping world. It's a real world in the Realm Between. There's a cutscene where Yen Sid says that Sora and Riku will eventually end up out of the sleeping worlds and into a world that's in the Realm Between. That world was The World That Never Was. It's not a sleeping world, but when Riku arrived there, he was still in the realm of sleep since he was still in Sora's dreams and has been the whole journey. After Riku defeats Ansem, Seeker of Darkness, he's brought back to the real world and out of the realm of sleep. When Sora arrived at The World That Never Was, he was in the real world and out of the dream. But, Young Xehanort dragged Sora back into the realm of sleep, but this time, he dragged Sora into Sora's own dreams instead of the world's dreams. Then, Xigbar dragged Sora into a second sleep. So, Sora's sleeping body was in Sora's own dreams which is why Riku saw it before he fought Anti Black Coat. Anyways, after Young Xehanort successfully puts Sora into a weird sleep coma by dragging him further and further into dreams, he brings him back to the real world and places him on one of the Organization XIII thrones.

Riku still had his Dream Eaters and his Dream Eater powers in the real world of The World That Never Was because Sora was still asleep. He still had a weird Dream Eater connection to him.
Stop reviving threads older than 3 months. If you want to try and one-up people, do it in a more recent thread.
 
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