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Sora a MURDERER?



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Organization_42

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So if they don't mean to exist, why exactly are they here?!

They are there because they each had strong hearts in their lifetimes, and so their bodies did not fade into darkness when their hearts became Heartless. IMO, the Nobodies do exist, because by saying they are not meant to, it implies that they do exist but they are not supposed to.

The crime of murder, in its basic form, is the unjust killing of another person. Note the word "unjust". Self-defense doesn't qualify for that, and that's basically what Sora was doing: protecting himself and his loved ones from people who wished them harm. The same goes for the idea that killing Sabor was animal cruelty: when an animal tries to maul you to death, you have every right to take out your Keyblade, spear, gun, or whatever weapon you happen to have on you and defend yourself.

So Sora is not a murderer in the technical sense, he was merely defending himself and his friends.
 

afrobutt

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ohh i see what you mean now about the DN thing. Yeh, I suppose the moral is similar and whatnot, like is it right to kill someone whose done wrong.

Pieces of Nothing and Darkness...that's all they are? Nothiing more?

If they have no feelings, why would they care to becoming whole anyway? I thought that they couldn't feel that emotion, or any.

well, Nobodys are under debate atm (cuz it is wierd how u can want something when u can't express want) but regardless, they just go back to darkness and nothing when slain (i think i said this alrdy) and end up (in a way) coming back in the form of nothing and darkness that create other heartless and nobodys
 

afrobutt

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you can't really say that nobody's were meant to not exist, or else they wouldn't be there. DUH!
And about the murder, it depends haw bad they were to other people. It's kinda like the death penalty. But it was for a good reason :3

see what i mean about the Death Note morale thing XD.

And what they mean is, they are not supposed to be around. Hearts are supposed to stay in their bodys, and those bodys shouldn't be getting back up. Therefore, naturaly they shouldn't exsist
 

redprint

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It's... always hard to bring such thing like this from a game to our compact human mind.

Well, my opinion.
About the Heartless, I believe it's not murderer. You all know why too. It's releasing the heart taken by darkness, Sora just defeating the darkness.

About the Nobodies, aww this takes more thinking than my lazy mind can do. Anyways, I think if a process of Heartless birth counts as 'die' already (when the heart and the body separated away, I mean), then Sora does nothing murderous.
Well, we know the special cases like Kairi and Sora himself whose hearts seems like 'sleeping' when their nobodies are roaming around. So it makes me think, what if the hearts of OXIII members are somewhere else and there's still a hope for them to get it back and became whole again? That makes Sora like... killing the hope of those nobodies that have the chance to be 'alive' again. Means murdering, I guess.

About the Disney bosses like Maleficent and Oogie, I'm not sure if that's really killing something. You know Disney, you know hom many deaths they can make. Not much, that is. And the 'deaths' are very very softened, that with some deus ex machina they could bring the dead characters without illogical issues.
I'll just leave it as it be.

So, is Sora a murderer?
I think.................................................... umm....................................... ow, let me flow around in confusion.
Sorry if this post doesn't help.
 
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afrobutt

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Well, we know the special cases like Kairi and Sora himself whose hearts seems like 'sleeping' when their nobodies are roaming around. So it makes me thing, what if the hearts of OXIII members are somewhere else and there's still a hope for them to get it back and became whole again? That makes Sora like... killing the hope of those nobodies that have the chance to be 'alive' again. Means murdering, I guess.

.

Well, the 1st 6 members of XIII gave in to darkness and became Nobody's of their own free will. And when was Kairi "sleeping"?
 
M

Miss Murder

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Disney would lose their franchise and popularity if they made a children's video game with a goddamn murderer as the main character.

So no.

This little cartoon character doesn't actually kill people.

Game wouldn't be rated E or E10+ if he did.
=/
And if he did, Disney would lose a helluva lotta cash.
 

Oris

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It sorta depends on how you look at it really. Murder is done intentionally for no reason. Cold blood. Sora kills to "purify" the worlds. He doesn't have much choice...:sleep:
 

xZora

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I kind of consider him a murderer. The Organization members are my favorite characters, and for a long time I was really mad at him for killing them. D: I've always kind of related to the nobodies.
So Sora is not a murderer in the technical sense, he was merely defending himself and his friends.
That's true though ... But still ... I love Organization XIII T^T
 

Fuyu

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They're nothing, they feel nothing and they were BAD.
They were attacking Hollow Bastion with Heartless', kidnapped Kairi, tried to kill Sora many many times, stole the hearts for their own personal gain, killed each other, kept Naminé as "hostage" etc...

Sora just won't decide to "kill" organizations at random, he had his reasons for doing so.
 

Merlin326

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okay, here's my two cents. Sora is not a murderer in any form of the word.

the Heartless: these are creatures of Darkness. they exist to steal the hearts of humans to create more Heartless, effectivly killing them in the process. Sora is combating them to stop them from killing anyone else, especially the ones he loves. he also acts in self defense, since the Heartless are heck-bent on capturing his heart.

the Nobodies and Organization XIII: true, all the Org wanted were hearts, but they were going about it the wrong way. they were using the heartless to steal other's hearts, once again effectivly killing the victims, and using them to create a mountin load of hearts (the Kingdom Hearts from KH2). we must also remember that the origional six usurped Ansem the Wise so they could continue their experiments.

the Disney Villains: many of the other villains had various plans of ruling over their world, in a word, treason. i think the ruling powers of the worlds in question (the emperer of Mulan world, King Triton of Atlantica) would be willing to make exceptions since they help avoid a disaster. besides, would you rather Sora did nothing while Oggie Boggie and Maleficent stole Sandy Claws's heart and turned him into a Heartless?

no, simply taking a life is not murder. taking a life for no reason, without provoction, or with a viable reason, that is murder.

with all due respect,
Merlin326
 

semajultima

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It sorta depends on how you look at it really. Murder is done intentionally for no reason. Cold blood. Sora kills to "purify" the worlds. He doesn't have much choice...:sleep:

murder can be done for a good reason. But the reason is only seen as good in the murders head not others.
Its all just opinion really.
 

reprep

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but i was thinking if sora is a murderer
what was riku doing then : having the lead the heartless , giving himself out as ansem..... ,
try to kidnap pinokkio , steals a keyblade from sora , kidnapped roxas , kidnapped princesses of heart




(my first post on this forum , IM new here:p)
 
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SeaSalt IceCream

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rats, looks like I posted on the wrong thread!

Oh well here's why I think he is not a murderer

Well technially if we are talking Org wise no, because according to Yen Sid Nobodies do not truly exist at all.

Ok he kills heartless but this is because the heartless kill other people, I see heartless like a wild animal, or say a savage dog. If a dog attacks a human in my country the animal is put down so as not to hurt another living human being. Perhaps the savage dog was a bad exaple, so we'll use a wasp, even though the wasp has yet to do harm, you kill it, so it will not do any harm to anyone.

As for the disney Villians, I see them as evil dictators or evil leaders. Now allthough this is cold blooded murder, the person cannot be trusted, and are hurting innocent people and destroying innocent lives, now unfortunatley theonly 100% certain way to stop this person and make sure they never harm another living being is in-fact death. Whilst it does seem a little like murder, the person needs to be stopped to insure that innocent lives are safe.

I see Sora as sorta like the law inforcement, now sometimes, you do infact have to shoot a dangerous suspect to ensure your own safety and those around you. So if you see Sora as a policeman then it doesn't look like brutal murder at all, just doing a public service... Not that I'm all for the death penality or anything, I'm just saying somtimes a dangerous suspect must be stopped and if they are about to hurt somone you have to take action.

I'm not sure which thread you'll read so I'll post this on both threads.

That's true though ... But still ... I love Organization XIII T^T
lol even though you love somone it doesn't mean that they shouldn't be stopped, I mean Sora in friendship loves Riku (No I do not think they're gay... You immature people) Well, anyway in a friend way Sora loves Riku and cares very much for him, but Sora fought him instead of joining sides with him when they were inside Monstro because he was hurting himself and others.
 
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dualblade

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Here's what i think:
Nobodies are created from the shell of a person's heart when it is taken away from them. They feelings they show, might be due to the strength of the heart they once witheld. The stronger the heart, the traces of 'feelings' might as well be stronger. As for Sora being a murderer by 'killing' members of the org.13, if you remeber that in final mix, namine tells sora that axel has not 'died' but has returned to become the person he once was, a human. So Sora is kinda doing the org. a favor don't you think?
(P.S. this is my first post)
 

Bunneh

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I read over the topic briefly, so I apologize if I'm repeating information.
Sora's job as the keyblade wielder is to save the worlds from darkness. The darkness manifests itself into heartless from people's hearts.
Here's what I see it as:
Whenever you "kill a heartless," you release a heart into the sky to get reclaimed by Kingdom Hearts. When you think about it, the darkness had already killed the person. They are using the heart as a vessel, and I'm guessing depending what kind of person died, that's the kind of heartless they become.

Also, don't forget, in one of the Ansem reports it states something along the lines that Ansem, or probably Xehanort, made a machine to create heartless, and every heartless with the heartless insignia was his creation. Most of the heartless you kill in the game have the insignia on them, at least for a good deal of the time. So you're killing fake heartless essentially.

When it comes to nobodies, it's the same as heartless, except they're technically not supposed to exist. Can you kill something which doesn't exist =P? They have no feelings or a heart. How are you murdering them?

Finally, when it comes to the bosses...either three things happened:
1) They became a heartless before Sora attacked. I.E. Clayton, Scar.
2) They never actually died. I.E. Ursula, Captain Hook, Jafar.
3) It actually somewhat followed the storyline from a previous game. I.E. Oogie was disassembled by Jack in the movie, and essentially in KHI and KHII you're just helping him do that. Barbados...I never really saw Pirates of the Caribbean actually, but Jack killed him in the game, I assume it's the same from the movie?

Oh, and about Saber from KHI...well...I dunno, he's really an animal, right? Plus, didn't Tarzan kill him in the movie?
 

Kairiangel

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Re: Sora a ER?

I suppose this can be debatable.

Well, since Sora has been people (Organization members), Nobodies, Heartless, etc throughout the games, would that make him a ? Esp. since he killed Org. 13 people in COM? It's still , right? Taking the life of someone else. I guess this can go with Riku too.

I know that Nobodies don't have feelings (so sad) and that they're half a person, but they're still people aren't they?

Hmm...

Yes in a way yet no in the way god I'm confused!
 

PKKzelfar

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i would say...he is a murderer........but not the bad type...........
the one that Saving the World kind of Murderer.......:bored:.......but the true answer.....
yes.
enough said.
 
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