So... who controls the Heartless at this point? And why?



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QuintusKing

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During the Heartless invasion event, Maleficent's Heartless army battle with Organization XIII's Nobody army before turning on Sora and friends. Why does she attack the trio? She has been engaged in a fight. Even the Nobodies turn on the trio too. Why do they lose interest in the Heartless when they're still fighting with them? Perhaps, I should first ask, why would Nobodies attack Sora? Can that be viewed as some sort of training, just like what the Organization throw at Roxas in Days?

And then we see tons of Heartless pouring into The Great Maw. Maleficent should still be the one leading the Heartless here, but we see Xemnas making his appearance. So who on earth assigned the Heartless to this mission, and why? Maleficent because she wanted to fight the Nobodies? Or the Organization because they intended to force Sora into collecting more hearts? The latter doesn't make sense to me because we will still be seeing Maleficent counter Saïx with her Heartless afterwards. But if Maleficent governs the Heartless, was her motive:

  1. to fight the Nobodies, as stated above? or...
  2. to attack the town for no reason? or...
  3. both?
No, no. Why the heck, in the first place, would the fight between Maleficent and the Nobodies take place? And why at that time, in that world?

Here's my interpretation:

  1. The Organization plans to hasten Sora's move of killing Heartless (i.e. collecting more hearts). So
  2. They release some Nobodies, who they order to pick a fight with Heartless.
  3. Seeing her fellows being pwned, Maleficent throws in her whole army to fight off the Nobodies.
  4. Sora's gang arrives. The Heartless switch their attention. 1 vs 1000.
  5. Organization's goal achieved.
And then everything becomes in place as Maleficent faces Saïx, who instead pwns her. Finally the Organization takes her place in ruling the Heartless, which they can now freely use against Sora for him to help fulfill their purpose.

Or... is it?
 
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Hakan Xatos

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Re: So... who control the Heartless at this point? And why?

I'm not sure about the motives, but Maleficent was in control over the Heartless up until the scene at the Dark Depths where Saix says that Heartless side with whoever's the strongest. Which the balance of power may have been teetering even before then causing Maleficent and the Organization competing with who gave the orders.

Even though I do agree. Why does the nobodies attack Sora? Why doesn't the Organization send out more Heartless instead of having their own creatures get destroyed? I guess they didn't have full control yet until that scene at the Dark Depths.
 

Some guy

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Re: So... who control the Heartless at this point? And why?

Heartless only act on instinct (with 2 exceptions) and obey the strongest in their immediate vicinity.

The organization was using the heartless until Maleficent showed up, they then obeyed Maleficent until Saix's nobodies took care of her.

Also, the heartless at twtnw were controled by noone because that world (in-between) is too close to the darkness.
 

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Re: So... who control the Heartless at this point? And why?

lol what if the heartless begin side with GoL by end game? that would be an enjoyable finale that xehanort didn't expect.

however, i find it more realistic if they side with the new kingdom patriots as their team mascot, or potentially maleficent. she and the heartless could just be a third party.
 

QuintusKing

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Re: So... who control the Heartless at this point? And why?

I'm not sure about the motives, but Maleficent was in control over the Heartless up until the scene at the Dark Depths where Saix says that Heartless side with whoever's the strongest. Which the balance of power may have been teetering even before then causing Maleficent and the Organization competing with who gave the orders.

Even though I do agree. Why does the nobodies attack Sora? Why doesn't the Organization send out more Heartless instead of having their own creatures get destroyed? I guess they didn't have full control yet until that scene at the Dark Depths.
Yup, I agree that the event is the balancing point of control. It's a turning point where the Heartless follow order from two different parties, then it collapses once Maleficent gives in.

The organization was using the heartless until Maleficent showed up, they then obeyed Maleficent until Saix's nobodies took care of her.
Maleficent has shown up right when the fight between Heartless and Nobodies occurred, so how was the Organization manipulating the Heartless? The 1000 Heartless fight takes place quite some time after Maleficent came.
 

Some guy

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Re: So... who control the Heartless at this point? And why?

Maleficent has shown up right when the fight between Heartless and Nobodies occurred, so how was the Organization manipulating the Heartless? The 1000 Heartless fight takes place quite some time after Maleficent came.
Oh ... don't remember that, I guess the heartless were just following orders from both ends then (depends on who's closer I think), until Maleficent went poof.

Maleficent is stronger with darkness, but she can't impose her control from anywhere ... I think.
 

QuintusKing

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Re: So... who control the Heartless at this point? And why?

Well, it might be true that they follow both parties at the same time at some point. But it seems clearer that the boundary is when Maleficent confronts Saïx, where the stronger among both forces is revealed.

Maleficent is stronger with darkness, but she can't impose her control from anywhere ... I think.
I don't know, but I think it has been implied that both Maleficent and the Organization are excel in darkness. The latter is said to be a more stable controller of Heartless due to their lack of hearts granting them the immunity against being consumed by Heartless. Maybe this is what leads to Maleficent being overpowered by the Nobodies?
 

Some guy

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Re: So... who control the Heartless at this point? And why?

I don't know, but I think it has been implied that both Maleficent and the Organization are excel in darkness. The latter is said to be a more stable controller of Heartless due to their lack of hearts granting them the immunity against being consumed by Heartless. Maybe this is what leads to Maleficent being overpowered by the Nobodies?
I thought Maleficent was overpowered by numbers? But they kinda made it clear the heartless followed Maleficent when she confronted Saix (which is why he had to take care of those heartless first).

It's true Nobodies can abuse the power of darkness with little to no consequence; however, even if the heartless won't personally attack, darkness is still harmful for the body (they had to use coats to protect themselves when roaming through darkness).
 
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QuintusKing

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Re: So... who control the Heartless at this point? And why?

Yeah, it could be numbers that have led to Maleficent's defeat. I was just wondering if the lack of resistance against the consumption of heart by Heartless has any correlation with it. It could also be due to her being exhausted physically and mentally after the fight. Besides, her will could have already been weaker compared to Saïx's in the first place. After all, he managed to turn into a Nobody while retaining his mind and conscious, just like his fellow members.
 

Hovhannes1998

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Re: So... who control the Heartless at this point? And why?

As established in the first game, nobody truly "controls" the heartless. They are manifestations of darkness, which can't fully be controlled. We only conceive them as being controlled because those with dark hearts, call on them in their time of need. They come due to their love for darkness, and while we think the people control them, they are actually following their instincts. Eventually the "controllers" give in and are consumed by darkness or something like that.
 

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Re: So... who control the Heartless at this point? And why?

They're instinctive creatures. They either collect hearts individually to become stronger themselves or side with the one who they deem strongest for better survival chances. Malicifent and Saix were more or less on equal grounds, as the Heartless obeyed them both. Yet once they faced off in the Dark Depths, Saix proved to be stronger in the eyes of the Heartless. The only reason the Heartless and Nobodies were fighting was because they were ordered to fight. Malificent vs The Organization. Even the Keyblade has a lower priority than their Leaders orders, which we can see in the scene right before Ansems study where Heartless and Nobodies fight each other, and Malificent has to order them to fight Sora.

During the invasion of TWTNW the Heartless are simply roaming free. As Pete stated, they're too close to the Darkness to be controlled. Their only goal here to get to the Kingdom Hearts.

So basically your interpretation then.

Also, after the affairs of KH2, Malificent has regained her dominance over the Heartless, as seen in Coded. Meaning she'll most likely be back in KH3.
 
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