So let me get this straight...



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Nazo

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There's one scene in particular that still troubles me in Re:coded. That scene is the one right before Namine shows Sora all of the people connected to his heart who are hurting. But the part that confuses me is where Namine says that "Sora needed to learn how to deal with hurt." So, all the memories of the people connected to Sora are so painful that, if surface simultaneously could destroy Sora's heart? Is that basically what they were getting at?

But how is this knowledge supposed to help the real Sora? Data Sora learned how to cope with hurt, not real Sora. Sure, Data Sora learning about hurt allowed him to see the ones connected to Sora who need saving, and this in turn allowed Mickey to write Sora that letter at the end of KH2. But if the memories within the real Sora still need to be awakened, how is he supposed to do so without "breaking his heart"?

Also, was that scene with Roxas in DDD an example of Sora feeling the pain of memories? Cause Roxas transferred all of his memories to Sora and Sora felt the pain. Right?

Kingdom Hearts confuses me...

But I love understanding every nitpicked detail. If someone could flesh this out for me, that'd be swell.
 

Sephiroth0812

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You got it exactly right.

The pain of those connected with Sora is so intense that if handled the wrong way could lead to his heart being damaged and/or falling to darkness.
Data-Naminé warned against that while Mickey & co. might have planned to prepare the real Sora for that after the end of the Mark of Mastery done by Yen Sid.

The main problem though? Young Xehanort, Xigbar and Xemnas knew about that fact as well and decided to use it to their advantage in order to further Master Xehanort's plan.
That Sora was exposed to the other's pain unprepared was a deliberate part of Young Xehanort's plan which he enacted with Xigbar's and Xemnas' help.

Yep, all those scenes in TWTNW in DDD were examples of that. When Sora meets Naminé and she runs away, when Sora sees Xion he's overwhelmed with hurt due to her fate, then after that comes Roxas, the biggest blow that far (which is indicated by Sora's outburst afterwards) as he shows Sora his memories by directly connecting their hearts and last but not least Ventus when he meets "Terra" and "Aqua" on that skyscraper-bridge. He doesn't consciously know Ven, but he feels his pain.
When Sora starts to run after "Terra" and "Aqua" in slow-motion he first asks "what's going on?" because at that moment Sora isn't running of his own volution but because of Ven's heart reacting inside him which doesn't want to lose Terra and Aqua again.
After this, when "Terra" and "Aqua" turn back into Riku and Kairi, Sora is reminded of his own struggles during KH 1 and 2 and then also tries to run on his own.

In retrospect, also since Mickey indicated to Yen Sid in the secret ending of Re: Coded that he has an idea where Ven's heart might be, it was a huge mistake on Mickey's and Yen Sid's side to not prepare/inform the real Sora of the dangers of those suffering connected to him before they started the exam.
If Sora i.e. had known about Ven beforehand much of the mindgames Xemnas and Young MX (like in the Grid) would not have worked that well.

In their defense though, I do think that Mickey and Yen Sid didn't expect Xehanort and his lackeys to interfere with the exam.
 

loke13

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You got it exactly right.

The pain of those connected with Sora is so intense that if handled the wrong way could lead to his heart being damaged and/or falling to darkness.
Data-Naminé warned against that while Mickey & co. might have planned to prepare the real Sora for that after the end of the Mark of Mastery done by Yen Sid.

The main problem though? Young Xehanort, Xigbar and Xemnas knew about that fact as well and decided to use it to their advantage in order to further Master Xehanort's plan.
That Sora was exposed to the other's pain unprepared was a deliberate part of Young Xehanort's plan which he enacted with Xigbar's and Xemnas' help.

Yep, all those scenes in TWTNW in DDD were examples of that. When Sora meets Naminé and she runs away, when Sora sees Xion he's overwhelmed with hurt due to her fate, then after that comes Roxas, the biggest blow that far (which is indicated by Sora's outburst afterwards) as he shows Sora his memories by directly connecting their hearts and last but not least Ventus when he meets "Terra" and "Aqua" on that skyscraper-bridge. He doesn't consciously know Ven, but he feels his pain.
When Sora starts to run after "Terra" and "Aqua" in slow-motion he first asks "what's going on?" because at that moment Sora isn't running of his own volution but because of Ven's heart reacting inside him which doesn't want to lose Terra and Aqua again.
After this, when "Terra" and "Aqua" turn back into Riku and Kairi, Sora is reminded of his own struggles during KH 1 and 2 and then also tries to run on his own.

In retrospect, also since Mickey indicated to Yen Sid in the secret ending of Re: Coded that he has an idea where Ven's heart might be, it was a huge mistake on Mickey's and Yen Sid's side to not prepare/inform the real Sora of the dangers of those suffering connected to him before they started the exam.
If Sora i.e. had known about Ven beforehand much of the mindgames Xemnas and Young MX (like in the Grid) would not have worked that well.

In their defense though, I do think that Mickey and Yen Sid didn't expect Xehanort and his lackeys to interfere with the exam.
Wow that puts a lot of things in perspective and gives RE:Coded a whole new angle of importance.
 

Ruran

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You got it exactly right.

The pain of those connected with Sora is so intense that if handled the wrong way could lead to his heart being damaged and/or falling to darkness.
Data-Naminé warned against that while Mickey & co. might have planned to prepare the real Sora for that after the end of the Mark of Mastery done by Yen Sid.

The main problem though? Young Xehanort, Xigbar and Xemnas knew about that fact as well and decided to use it to their advantage in order to further Master Xehanort's plan.
That Sora was exposed to the other's pain unprepared was a deliberate part of Young Xehanort's plan which he enacted with Xigbar's and Xemnas' help.

Yep, all those scenes in TWTNW in DDD were examples of that. When Sora meets Naminé and she runs away, when Sora sees Xion he's overwhelmed with hurt due to her fate, then after that comes Roxas, the biggest blow that far (which is indicated by Sora's outburst afterwards) as he shows Sora his memories by directly connecting their hearts and last but not least Ventus when he meets "Terra" and "Aqua" on that skyscraper-bridge. He doesn't consciously know Ven, but he feels his pain.
When Sora starts to run after "Terra" and "Aqua" in slow-motion he first asks "what's going on?" because at that moment Sora isn't running of his own volution but because of Ven's heart reacting inside him which doesn't want to lose Terra and Aqua again.
After this, when "Terra" and "Aqua" turn back into Riku and Kairi, Sora is reminded of his own struggles during KH 1 and 2 and then also tries to run on his own.

In retrospect, also since Mickey indicated to Yen Sid in the secret ending of Re: Coded that he has an idea where Ven's heart might be, it was a huge mistake on Mickey's and Yen Sid's side to not prepare/inform the real Sora of the dangers of those suffering connected to him before they started the exam.
If Sora i.e. had known about Ven beforehand much of the mindgames Xemnas and Young MX (like in the Grid) would not have worked that well.

In their defense though, I do think that Mickey and Yen Sid didn't expect Xehanort and his lackeys to interfere with the exam.
^This-

and as much as people try to dismiss Re:Coded, 3D further confirmed that the datascape will play some role in KH3 and Data!Sora grew his own heart which means that within the KH-verse he's legitimately a real person. They wouldn't go through the trouble of giving Data!Sora an entire backstory where the puppet becomes a real little boy and gains an important skill if they didn't have future plans for him. What those plans are though is up to speculation.
 

Nazo

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You got it exactly right.

The pain of those connected with Sora is so intense that if handled the wrong way could lead to his heart being damaged and/or falling to darkness.
Data-Naminé warned against that while Mickey & co. might have planned to prepare the real Sora for that after the end of the Mark of Mastery done by Yen Sid.

The main problem though? Young Xehanort, Xigbar and Xemnas knew about that fact as well and decided to use it to their advantage in order to further Master Xehanort's plan.
That Sora was exposed to the other's pain unprepared was a deliberate part of Young Xehanort's plan which he enacted with Xigbar's and Xemnas' help.

Yep, all those scenes in TWTNW in DDD were examples of that. When Sora meets Naminé and she runs away, when Sora sees Xion he's overwhelmed with hurt due to her fate, then after that comes Roxas, the biggest blow that far (which is indicated by Sora's outburst afterwards) as he shows Sora his memories by directly connecting their hearts and last but not least Ventus when he meets "Terra" and "Aqua" on that skyscraper-bridge. He doesn't consciously know Ven, but he feels his pain.
When Sora starts to run after "Terra" and "Aqua" in slow-motion he first asks "what's going on?" because at that moment Sora isn't running of his own volution but because of Ven's heart reacting inside him which doesn't want to lose Terra and Aqua again.
After this, when "Terra" and "Aqua" turn back into Riku and Kairi, Sora is reminded of his own struggles during KH 1 and 2 and then also tries to run on his own.

In retrospect, also since Mickey indicated to Yen Sid in the secret ending of Re: Coded that he has an idea where Ven's heart might be, it was a huge mistake on Mickey's and Yen Sid's side to not prepare/inform the real Sora of the dangers of those suffering connected to him before they started the exam.
If Sora i.e. had known about Ven beforehand much of the mindgames Xemnas and Young MX (like in the Grid) would not have worked that well.

In their defense though, I do think that Mickey and Yen Sid didn't expect Xehanort and his lackeys to interfere with the exam.
Good Lord! NOW that scene FINALLY makes sense! I always wondered why Sora was seeing Namine, Xion, Roxas, and TAV during that montage. I can't believe I didn't make the connection that all of those are the people who are hurting. GAH! And I have the audacity to call myself a KH lore geek.

Wow that puts a lot of things in perspective and gives RE:Coded a whole new angle of importance.
Re:coded was always very important. Even the stuff before Sora got to Namine. And I knew that. But it's very hard to figure out WHY and that's the reason I think so many people ignore Re:coded and just claim that the secret ending is the only important part (which is far from the truth).
 

Sephiroth0812

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Wow that puts a lot of things in perspective and gives RE:Coded a whole new angle of importance.
Yep, the importance of Re: Coded also extends to the fact that Data-Sora grew a heart, adding more foreshadowing to the reveal in DDD about how hearts come into existence.
The importance of Re: Coded is more subtle, and apparently many people fail to notice the actual importance of this game.

^This-

and as much as people try to dismiss Re:Coded, 3D further confirmed that the datascape will play some role in KH3 and Data!Sora grew his own heart which means that within the KH-verse he's legitimately a real person. They wouldn't go through the trouble of giving Data!Sora an entire backstory where the puppet becomes a real little boy and gains an important skill if they didn't have future plans for him. What those plans are though is up to speculation.
Data-Sora is practically the modern (digital) version of Pinocchio, lol.


Good Lord! NOW that scene FINALLY makes sense! I always wondered why Sora was seeing Namine, Xion, Roxas, and TAV during that montage. I can't believe I didn't make the connection that all of those are the people who are hurting. GAH! And I have the audacity to call myself a KH lore geek.


Re:coded was always very important. Even the stuff before Sora got to Namine. And I knew that. But it's very hard to figure out WHY and that's the reason I think so many people ignore Re:coded and just claim that the secret ending is the only important part (which is far from the truth).
Did you play BBS/watched Blank Points? You can make the connection that these people are the hurting ones already from Blank Points when they call out to Sora, although the spoken confirmation comes only from Data-Naminé in Re: Coded.

Now I wouldn't overstate the importance of Re: Coded either. It does have several subtle points included that foreshadow and reinforce already hinted concepts which can lead to understand some things better in the whole picture, but it doesn't bring something completely new or a vastly shocking issue except the stuff discussed in the secret ending. I guess that's why many people refer only to the secret ending because the other stuff which builds upon existing stuff and foreshadowing simply slips their mind due to not being grand and flashy like it's usually in KH.
Those people do not pay enough attention to everything and arguably do not make the connections across the games.
 

Nazo

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Did you play BBS/watched Blank Points? You can make the connection that these people are the hurting ones already from Blank Points when they call out to Sora, although the spoken confirmation comes only from Data-Naminé in Re: Coded.

Now I wouldn't overstate the importance of Re: Coded either. It does have several subtle points included that foreshadow and reinforce already hinted concepts which can lead to understand some things better in the whole picture, but it doesn't bring something completely new or a vastly shocking issue except the stuff discussed in the secret ending. I guess that's why many people refer only to the secret ending because the other stuff which builds upon existing stuff and foreshadowing simply slips their mind due to not being grand and flashy like it's usually in KH.
Those people do not pay enough attention to everything and arguably do not make the connections across the games.
Yeah, I played BBS and unlocked Blank Points. But that's exactly what I mean. I saw that, and played all of Re:coded where Namine reveals the ones who are hurting, and yet I got to that scene in DDD and didn't realize that "Oh hey, those are THE SAME exact people from Blank Points and the end of Re:coded and that's why Sora is seeing all of them."

And yeah, I know that the majority of Re:coded is actually skipable as far as the plot is concerned, but you do have to play the game in order to fully complete the puzzle that is Kingdom Hearts' story. Hence, it is quite important.
 

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^This-

and as much as people try to dismiss Re:Coded, 3D further confirmed that the datascape will play some role in KH3 and Data!Sora grew his own heart which means that within the KH-verse he's legitimately a real person. They wouldn't go through the trouble of giving Data!Sora an entire backstory where the puppet becomes a real little boy and gains an important skill if they didn't have future plans for him. What those plans are though is up to speculation.
This right here makes me wonder will they find a way to merge the real Sora and Data Sora so that he can learn all that the Data Sora found out? And since the Data Sora grew a heart would that add another heart inside Sora?
 

Sephiroth0812

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Yeah, I played BBS and unlocked Blank Points. But that's exactly what I mean. I saw that, and played all of Re:coded where Namine reveals the ones who are hurting, and yet I got to that scene in DDD and didn't realize that "Oh hey, those are THE SAME exact people from Blank Points and the end of Re:coded and that's why Sora is seeing all of them."

And yeah, I know that the majority of Re:coded is actually skipable as far as the plot is concerned, but you do have to play the game in order to fully complete the puzzle that is Kingdom Hearts' story. Hence, it is quite important.
If it helps I don't think that you are the only one who didn't realize it. ^__^

Tell that to the casual fans and those who don't realize this and you'll probably run into a wall of stubbornness, lol.

This right here makes me wonder will they find a way to merge the real Sora and Data Sora so that he can learn all that the Data Sora found out? And since the Data Sora grew a heart would that add another heart inside Sora?
Huh? Wouldn't it be much more economical and easy to have Data-Sora just brief the real Sora on it? Why go through the additional pain of another merge?
Another possibility would be to let the real Sora simply enter the datascape and then initiate a datalink between him and Data-Sora.
 
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