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Since the Foretellers Are Named After the Seven Deadly Sins, the New Seven Hearts Are Likely Connected To the Seven Cardinal Virtues



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Lacan Valeth

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I found out in a different Thread here today that the Foretellers are named after the Seven Deadly Sins, so I realized that the New Seven Hearts might be able to be connected to the Seven Cardinal Virtues and Nomura might be choosing them specifically based on the ability to connect them to the Seven Cardinal Virtues.

A friend of mine just reminded me what the Seven Cardinal Virtues are.

Here's my beliefs about which Virtue suit which of the New Seven Hearts.

Kairi is Charity. Charity is love for another, be it familial, platonic, or romantic.
Anna is Diligence. Diligence can also be said to be dedication and loyalty, and Anna is *extremely* loyal and dedicated to Elsa.
Elsa is Humility. She has a very low opinion of herself.
Rapunzel is Patience. She had a lot of reasons to be angry with Mother Gothel, but, though she *did* get angry, she didn't let anger rule her.

The fifth New Seven Heart is likely Vanellope, so I'll suit a Cardinal Virtue to her.

Vanellope is Kindness. She has plenty of reason to envy the people around her, yet she doesn't much, if at all.

Do you agree/disagree with my connections so far? If so, why and/or why not?

For those who forgot, like me, or don't know, the other two Cardinal Virtues are Ch-stity and Temperance.

Which Disney Princess do you believe best fits the other two Cardinal Virtues?

Paul

"The new Ivalice holds no place for the name Dalmasca. The stain of Raithwall's blood shall be washed clean from history's weave."-Judge Magister Bergan
FINAL FANTASY XII
 

Idreamaboutcats

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It's not that simple. The original princesses had little to do with the virtues, although by default they were all pure.

Cinderella's light was her charm and beauty, which counters her step-family's jealousy.
According to this site's translations, Alice's light was her willfulness, a counter against the Queen of Hearts' selfishness.
The "lights" of the other original princesses are still unknown.

Vanellope is a princess in her world, yes, but I doubt she's pure light. Same principle with Ariel. Stealing a medal which doesn't belong to you (even though it also didn't belong to the other guy in the first place) does not scream of "pure." It screams "thieving little waif." That and she's not human but data, although data beings can apparently also grow hearts. Who knows though?
 

Lacan Valeth

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IDreamAboutCats:
The original Princesses of Heart had little to nothing to do with the virtues, but they're not the New Seven Hearts. What applies to the original Princesses of Heart doesn't apply to the New Seven Hearts.

Vanellope possesses darkness, but none of the Princesses of Heart possess no darkness at all. The sole source that says the Princesses of Heart possess no darkness whatsoever is Ansem the Wise in his Secret Ansem Reports, and since Ansem was blinded by vengeance when he wrote most or all of them, those Reports can't be trusted. He might have been putting the Princesses of Heart on a pedestal as he was putting the Nobodies in a pit. All other sources just say that the Princesses of Heart are the purest hearts around, and a number of these other sources even explicitly compare the Princesses of Heart to Ven's and the guardians of light's pure hearts, and we know for certain that Ven and the guardians possess darkness.

See my Thread at:
...for proof that Kairi possesses darkness.

And if Kairi possesses darkness, the other New Seven Hearts do.

Lastly, even if the Princesses of Heart *didn't* possess any darkness, Elsa did before she became a New Seven Heart, as Elrena/Larxene addressed a number of times. So even if the Princesses of Heart *didn't* possess any darkness - and they do - Vanellope might not be a New Seven Heart *yet.*

Vanellope isn't from a datascape like Data-Sora. It's arguable that Wreck-It Ralph, she, and other people from those worlds aren't the same as data people from datascapes.

Which interview talks about Alice's light and Cinderella's light?

Though, in response to the interview's claim that part of Cinderella's light is her beauty:

Cinderella's light is her beauty my eyebrows. Appearance has no connection to a person.

*That* lowered my opinion of the KINGDOM HEARTS series a good deal.

Paul

'The closer you get to the light, the greater your shadow becomes.'-King Mickey
KINGDOM HEARTS
 

Idreamaboutcats

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I'm...not sure what you're aiming for here, but you have made quite a lot of threads, that's for sure...whatever, no skin off my nose, I guess.

You can't argue against canon though. It's not just Ansem. A lot of other characters speak of the princesses' incredible purity. The fairies, Yen Sid, some or such others who have never met Ansem, much less read his reports. The sheer difference is Ven's purity is artificial. It is an aberration against nature for him to be like that, and the only reason he's alive is Sora served as his anchor. The princesses are incorruptible and can't be turned to Heartless, though in some cases they can have "other halves", like Kairi (and possibly Alice, if we were to follow Disney canon). However, I will concede that their purity is also dangerous, as the closer one is to the light, the bigger their shadow becomes, after all.

The guardians as a factional unit have little to do with the princesses, at most they can be described as bodyguards and substitutes to and for the princesses. They will naturally have darkness within them.

I am not going to read that long wall of text of a thread again. Too much work for explaining on how something goes against the canon when it shouldn't.

We don't know the dynamics of succession when it comes to the princesses, only that they eventually pass on, but I admit I have doubts myself why Elsa, of all people, would count as a pure light when she lacks confidence, fears herself, all that loneliness and sadness takes up too much room in her heart, and she's clearly in no position to be coexistent in a relationship of any nature outside of Anna and their sisterhood.

I'm not going to point out these things for you; I'm sure you can find these sources.

Finally, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and if someone assumes looks is what makes beauty alone, something is seriously wrong there. Perhaps rewatching the movie and replaying BbS might reveal why Cinderella is truly beautiful, yea?
 

Lacan Valeth

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IDreamAboutCats:
First, I don't assume appearance causes *anyone* to be beautiful. Beauty is a personality trait, and *that's all.* From the way you worded it, it sounded like you were saying that the canon is just saying that Cinderella is beautiful because of her *appearance,* and *that* is what I object to.

If you believe that the canon is saying that Cinderella is beautiful due to her personality, and not her appearance at all, I very much agree with that.

You make number of very good points about why the Princesses are different from Ven and the guardians of light, and I agree with most or all of your points about Ven and the guardians, but I'm not arguing against canon. No one but a vengeance-blinded Ansem says that the Princesses and the New Seven Hearts have no darkness. The other sources speak of the Princesses' incredible purity, but none of the other sources than the revenge-blinded Ansem say that the Princesses have no darkness, and that Elsa counts as a pure light is strong evidence that the Princesses do possess darkness.

As are the following pictures of Kairi from KINGDOM HEARTS III and KINGDOM HEARTS III: RE MIND, that clearly show in Kairi's own facial expressions and body language that she's displaying not just regular negative emotion anger, but vengeful anger, hateful anger, hate, despair, and more, and that she's very likely calling on darkness to boost herself when she duels Xemnas as Riku and Terra have called on darkness to boost themselves. I won't Post them with a lot of text this time so you're more comfortable reading them - though they're not 'walls of text;' there's no such thing.

Here are the pictures.

~~~

The first picture is from the scene in the regular KINGDOM HEARTS III where Terra-Xehanort does a number on the group, so you know the context of this one.

Here's evidence that Kairi possesses darkness because she glares at Terra-Xehanort with undiluted hatred. The glare can be clearly seen as undeniable proof on a television screen that is large enough, but it doesn't appear as well in the picture below, so I'm calling this picture 'evidence' and not 'proof.'

~*~*~*~

<img src="



">

~*~*~*~

The segment itself can be seen on YouTube in the KINGDOM HEARTS III movie KINGDOM HEARTS 3 - All Cutscenes Full Movie High Definition from 7:53:34 to 7:53:38.

~~~

Here's the Kairi pictures from KINGDOM HEARTS III: RE MIND that are unarguable proof, and arguable evidence, that Kairi possesses darkness.

Kairi reacting to Isa/Saix saying that Lea and the other guardians must have been desperate to apply her, one of the New Seven Hearts, as a guardian of light.

Kairi arguably looks not just angry, but hateful here, too, though perhaps not as much as in a clear television screen shot of Kairi glaring at Terra-Xehanort with undiluted hatred.

~*~*~*~

<img src="



">

~*~*~*~

This segment can also be seen in the YouTube KINGDOM HEARTS III: RE MIND movie KINGDOM HEARTS 3 REMIND Downloadable Content - Gameplay Walkthrough Part 1 FULL GAME from 1:32:24 to 1:32:37.

First, I'm not arguing that Kairi just feels regular negative emotion anger. I'm arguing that she additionally feels *vengeful anger* and *hateful anger,* which are darkness.

My first two pictures proving and giving evidence that Kairi possesses darkness will address this.

This is regular negative emotion anger.

Roxas is angry that, after Xemnas has thrown Sora to the ground and Isa/Saix has locked Lea/Axel in a claymore/Keyblade clash, Roxas can't break through Xemnas' single Ethereal Blade block with Roxas' Oblivion.

~*~*~*~

<img src="



">

~*~*~*~

This is hateful anger and darkness.

Sora hates Xemnas and is extremely angry with Xemnas for imprisoning Kairi in a sphere of dark thorns.

~*~*~*~

<img src="



">

~*~*~*~

Do you see the large difference?

Xemnas blocks Sora with one single Ethereal Blade and throws him away.

~*~*~*~

<img src="



">

~*~*~*~

<img src="



">

~*~*~*~

Xemnas blocks Xion's Kingdom Key with one single Ethereal Blade while simultaneously blocking Roxas' Oblivion - not Roxas' Oathkeeper as well, I was wrong about this - with his other Ethereal Blade, then Xemnas boosts his abilities with darkness - he does this now, not afterwards, I was wrong about this as well - and throws Xion and Roxas away.

~*~*~*~

<img src="



">

~*~*~*~

<img src="



">

~*~*~*~

Kairi versus Xemnas.

This begins right after Xemnas throws Xion and Roxas away.

Kairi jumps at Xemnas and swings Destiny's Embrace with an angry, perhaps even hateful, glare that is perhaps even a snarl.

~*~*~*~

<img src="



">

~*~*~*~

Xemnas blocks Kairi with both Ethereal Blades, but Kairi overpowers Xemnas' block with Destiny's Embrace so effectively she almost his Xemnas when he staggers back.

~*~*~*~

<img src="



">

~*~*~*~

<img src="



">

~*~*~*~

Kairi gives Xemnas another angry glare that is almost certainly another glare of undiluted hatred and that is definitely a snarl this time.

~*~*~*~

<img src="



">

~*~*~*~

Kairi repeatedly sends Xemnas staggering back at a disadvantage and on the defensive even though Xemnas is attempting to defend himself with both Ethereal Blades.

~*~*~*~

<img src="



">

~*~*~*~

<img src="



">

~*~*~*~

In the last picture, it's also very attention-grabbing that Kairi is so letting herself be ruled by emotion that she's briefly closing her eyes while in the middle of a combat situation.

When Xemnas snares Sora in the sphere of thorny darkness, Kairi portrays facial expressions and body language that are *unmistakably* undiluted hatred.

~*~*~*~

<img src="



">

~*~*~*~

<img src="



">

~*~*~*~

And this isn't even just Kairi's undiluted hatred for Xemnas and for Kairi herself. Kairi is in *unimaginably incomprehensible despair* at her helplessness and powerlessness to keep Sora from pain and suffering.

The entire Kairi versus Xemnas sequence can be viewed in full on the YouTube video KINGDOM HEARTS 3 REMIND Downloadable Content - Gameplay Walkthrough Part 1 FULL GAME from 1:45:05 to 1:46:33.

~~~

Do you see why Kairi, and thus the other Princesses of Heart, possess darkness now?

Paul

"This heart belongs again to darkness."-Terra-Xehanort
KINGDOM HEARTS: BIRTH BY SLEEP
 

Idreamaboutcats

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I shouldn’t have replied to this thread…

It’s Reddit and Twitter all over again!

I am not going to read that still long wall of text with images; I’m also not going to entertain ideas that go against the canon and debate about plot logic and body language in a fantasy Disney video game of all things. My eyes are going to dry up!

Just one thing, because I doubt I’ll be replying to the thread after this. A good format for lengthy forum post is four to five paragraphs with three max sentences on each, with two pictures at most. It’s easier on the eyes and less distracting to anyone interested enough to read.
 

Lacan Valeth

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IDreamAboutCats:
I'm not going to write shorter Posts or Post less pictures because people don't want to take the time to read or look at pictures when fictional literary art is under discussion. There's nothing not easy on the eyes or distracting about long Posts, and there's no such thing as a 'wall of text.'

And the Princesses of Heart possessing darkness doesn't go against canon for the reasons I argued above. If you don't want to read or look at my Posts, that's your choice, but if you're not going to read or look at my arguments, don't tell me I'm wrong without knowing what my arguments are.

Lastly, KINGDOM HEARTS is a Disney series, but as Tetsuya Nomura and Square ENiX have said time and again, it is *not* child-focused. Nomura's KINGDOM HEARTS characters and KINGDOM HEARTS plot are as fully realistic as the characters and plot of any other well-written piece of literary art, so facial expressions, body language, and plot logic are as important in all of the KINGDOM HEARTS Role-Playing Games as in any other well-written story with them.

***

The latest Thread Title on the front Page of this Site just inspired me.

I'm finding a way for it to be recognized outside of the more Fanfiction-exclusive fandom that Kairi, and the Princesses of Heart, possess darkness before KINGDOM HEARTS: MELODY OF MEMORY is released. It's time to create a Thread specifically devoted to this.

Paul

"This is your story. It all begins here."-Auron
FINAL FANTASY X
 
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TheDemonCT

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I found out in a different Thread here today that the Foretellers are named after the Seven Deadly Sins, so I realized that the New Seven Hearts might be able to be connected to the Seven Cardinal Virtues and Nomura might be choosing them specifically based on the ability to connect them to the Seven Cardinal Virtues.

A friend of mine just reminded me what the Seven Cardinal Virtues are.

Here's my beliefs about which Virtue suit which of the New Seven Hearts.

Kairi is Charity. Charity is love for another, be it familial, platonic, or romantic.
Anna is Diligence. Diligence can also be said to be dedication and loyalty, and Anna is *extremely* loyal and dedicated to Elsa.
Elsa is Humility. She has a very low opinion of herself.
Rapunzel is Patience. She had a lot of reasons to be angry with Mother Gothel, but, though she *did* get angry, she didn't let anger rule her.

The fifth New Seven Heart is likely Vanellope, so I'll suit a Cardinal Virtue to her.

Vanellope is Kindness. She has plenty of reason to envy the people around her, yet she doesn't much, if at all.

Do you agree/disagree with my connections so far? If so, why and/or why not?

For those who forgot, like me, or don't know, the other two Cardinal Virtues are Ch-stity and Temperance.

Which Disney Princess do you believe best fits the other two Cardinal Virtues?

Paul

"The new Ivalice holds no place for the name Dalmasca. The stain of Raithwall's blood shall be washed clean from history's weave."-Judge Magister Bergan
FINAL FANTASY XII
Their named after the deadly sins. Their personalities are of the virtues, but flawed.
 

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The Foretellers represent both the sins and virtues. It's the irony of their names. They are named after the sins, act virtuous, but fall prey to the sins they are named after.

It is not any deeper than that.
 
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