Film ► Show don't tell.(Fun discussion)

[vaderskywalker]

I have no idea where to put a topic like this, so please bear with me, I'm not a big fan of show don't tell, mostly because I don't understand it, characters apparently do something on screen instead of saying it, and the audience apparently gets it, but not all of us gets it, like sometimes I catch on, other times I do not, like most of the time I have to have that thing that the character did explained to me usually by someone who's experiencing the show/movie with me, does anyone else have this problem, and what are your thoughts?

 

[Deleted member 246005]

I have no idea where to put a topic like this, so please bear with me, I'm not a big fan of show don't tell, mostly because I don't understand it, characters apparently do something on screen instead of saying it, and the audience apparently gets it, but not all of us gets it, like sometimes I catch on, other times I do not, like most of the time I have to have that thing that the character did explained to me usually by someone who's experiencing the show/movie with me, does anyone else have this problem, and what are your thoughts?

It's writing advice that means don't spoon feed your story. I'm a writer and it's a tricky skill to learn.

Here are some good videos to explain it.

 

[vaderskywalker]

It's writing advice that means don't spoon feed your story. I'm a writer and it's a tricky skill to learn.

Here are some good videos to explain it.

I understand that, but sometimes I have to have it spoon fed to me, like I prefer exposition, over say, a character reading something off a piece of paper on a desk that's a key to the next scene, and I don't understand it.

 

[Face My Fears]

I understand that, but sometimes I have to have it spoon fed to me.

Maybe you should try reading/watching more stories. I think the more exposure to them, you will get more familiar with what's happening. Also, most of the time, the explanation will be given in a more clearer form at the end of the story or the "meaning" of the story will be revealed there.

A perfect example is the last few lines of the film "Tootsie": "I was a better man with you as a woman than I ever was with a woman as a man. I just gotta learn to do it without the dress." The premise of the film is a narcissistic womanizing actor cannot get a job because his reputation is that he's very difficult to work with, so he pretends to be a woman to land a role. Throughout the film, you see the main character (Michael) becoming a better person / learning to be a better man as he maintains his woman persona (Dorothy).

I can understand other films like "Inception" requiring spoon feeding, but some filmmakers will intentionally make films that don't have it and are left up for viewer interpretation. But I think if you watch more films that are pretty straight-forward, you should get used to what's going on.

Another example (since I feel like you may have never seen "Tootise" as it's an old film) is "Inside Out". [SPOILERS FOR INSIDE OUT IF YOU DID NOT WATCH IT] Around the middle of the film, when Bing Bong is crying and Sadness sits with him and he lets out his tears, then gets better - Joy notices this, but doesn't say anything about it. This is a moment where Joy begins to learn (by witnessing it in action IE SHOWING) that sadness is key to having a healthy emotional state - which is used later on in the film to help Riley. In the film, they even have Joy acknowledge it out (near the end) that Sadness is needed to save Riley.

 

[vaderskywalker]

Another example (since I feel like you may have never seen "Tootise" as it's an old film) is "Inside Out". [SPOILERS FOR INSIDE OUT IF YOU DID NOT WATCH IT] Around the middle of the film, when Bing Bong is crying and Sadness sits with him and he lets out his tears, then gets better - Joy notices this, but doesn't say anything about it. This is a moment where Joy begins to learn (by witnessing it in action IE SHOWING) that sadness is key to having a healthy emotional state - which is used later on in the film to help Riley. In the film, they even have Joy acknowledge it out (near the end) that Sadness is needed to save Riley.

Thank you for the heads up with the spoilers, but I have already seen inside out, so no worries, but I have never understood that scene, so thank you again for explaining that scene.

 

[zerossoul]

'Show don't tell' is mostly good advice. However, it's not easy, and when done wrong, can leave viewers scratching their heads. That said, when done right, It's absolutely beautiful.

The best example I can think of for 'show don't tell' comes from Pixar's Wall:e. The first half of the movie, the only words you hear are from a song, and yet It's some of the most expressive and powerful storytelling I've ever seen. Same thing with Pixar's UP. The first 5 minutes are arguably the most heart wrenching in cinema history, but again, hardly any words are used. (I'm posting the link so you can enjoy this 5 minute masterpiece)

Contrast this with Anime. Almost everything is thoroughly explained. This is for a few reasons. the directors want to stretch the episode out longer, they don't want you to miss the details, and they think it's the coolest thing when other characters say 'He's throwing the basketball even higher!! Now they won't ever stop it! He's soooo coool!'. Anything that tells you how you should react to something does so because they aren't good enough to convey how you should react.
It gets old fast and gets in the way of enjoying the series.

I totally get it if that's the media you were raised on. The trend in Japan is to over explain things. A lot of western content is written to be applicable to the audience, and won't often resonate with everyone, but it's powerful for those it resonates with. For them, it doesn't need to be explained, and explaining it would ruin it for them.

 

[vaderskywalker]

'Show don't tell' is mostly good advice. However, it's not easy, and when done wrong, can leave viewers scratching their heads. That said, when done right, It's absolutely beautiful.

The best example I can think of for 'show don't tell' comes from Pixar's Wall:e. The first half of the movie, the only words you hear are from a song, and yet It's some of the most expressive and powerful storytelling I've ever seen. Same thing with Pixar's UP. The first 5 minutes are arguably the most heart wrenching in cinema history, but again, hardly any words are used. (I'm posting the link so you can enjoy this 5 minute masterpiece)

Contrast this with Anime. Almost everything is thoroughly explained. This is for a few reasons. the directors want to stretch the episode out longer, they don't want you to miss the details, and they think it's the coolest thing when other characters say 'He's throwing the basketball even higher!! Now they won't ever stop it! He's soooo coool!'. Anything that tells you how you should react to something does so because they aren't good enough to convey how you should react.
It gets old fast and gets in the way of enjoying the series.

I totally get it if that's the media you were raised on. The trend in Japan is to over explain things. A lot of western content is written to be applicable to the audience, and won't often resonate with everyone, but it's powerful for those it resonates with. For them, it doesn't need to be explained, and explaining it would ruin it for them.

I guess that makes sense, I was born in the 90s, so I grew up with a lot of anime, and Kingdom Hearts is also from Japan and has a lot of anime tropes including exposition, and it also makes sense for them to explain things in great detail, because not all of us understand Japanese culture, but there are instances in western media where things aren't explained enough, for example, the Infamous games, or the first one at least, doesn't explain what a conduit is too well, you have to find out through an easy to miss side mission instead of through the main story, and I think that's bad writing.

 

[zerossoul]

Things like infamous not explaining what a conduit is may not necessarily be bad writing, but rather a gamble. Let's say you're making a game and you have a big mystery that isn't essential to the story. If the player beats the game but you want them to keep playing, you can use that big mystery reveal to motivate them to finish the extra content in the game.

Kingdom Hearts does this as well through the ansem reports. There is some crucially vital information in those reports that help piece the whole story together, but those reports aren't necessary to understand the main plot of that game.
Another big one is in Final Fantasy 7. You get a rough idea of happened to Cloud, but the fine details are lost unless you visit the Nibelheim Shinra mansion basement after Cloud rejoins your party on disk 2, and you get to actually see what happens to Zack and Cloud.

If you give all this extra information up front, the player can easily lose motivation to finish the game, and I for one am glad many games are set up this way. It makes finding these lore gems feel special and rewarding.
So yeah, withholding this info can be a gamble for anyone not motivated to finish the game, but the most important part in my opinion is having this mystery that drives you forward. That mystery helps you bond with the character, because both you and the character want to know these things.

 

[vaderskywalker]

Things like infamous not explaining what a conduit is may not necessarily be bad writing, but rather a gamble. Let's say you're making a game and you have a big mystery that isn't essential to the story. If the player beats the game but you want them to keep playing, you can use that big mystery reveal to motivate them to finish the extra content in the game.

Kingdom Hearts does this as well through the ansem reports. There is some crucially vital information in those reports that help piece the whole story together, but those reports aren't necessary to understand the main plot of that game.
Another big one is in Final Fantasy 7. You get a rough idea of happened to Cloud, but the fine details are lost unless you visit the Nibelheim Shinra mansion basement after Cloud rejoins your party on disk 2, and you get to actually see what happens to Zack and Cloud.

If you give all this extra information up front, the player can easily lose motivation to finish the game, and I for one am glad many games are set up this way. It makes finding these lore gems feel special and rewarding.
So yeah, withholding this info can be a gamble for anyone not motivated to finish the game, but the most important part in my opinion is having this mystery that drives you forward. That mystery helps you bond with the character, because both you and the character want to know these things.

Sorry, I should have been clearer on the conduit thing, what I meant was that they should have gone into more detail on what a conduit is in the main story, because it can cause confusion for those who play the game for the first time, up until you get the dead drop, your led to believe a conduit is a specific enemy type, not realizing that the main character is, himself, a conduit, it's like if Charles Xavier didn't properly explain what a mutant is, and I have read the Ansem reports.

 

[BufferAqua]

This entire thread reminds me of House of the Dragon and how that show pushed show don't tell to the core. Almost to the point where misinterpretations of characters and scenes were widespread.

 

[vaderskywalker]

This entire thread reminds me of House of the Dragon and how that show pushed show don't tell to the core. Almost to the point where misinterpretations of characters and scenes were widespread.

That's horrifying, why would they do that?

 

[BufferAqua]

That's horrifying, why would they do that?

Imo it isn't the show's fault, just that a lot of scends are merely up to interpretation.

 

[vaderskywalker]

Imo it isn't the show's fault, just that a lot of scends are merely up to interpretation.

What does Imo mean?

 

[BufferAqua]

It's short for in my opinion.

 

[vaderskywalker]

It's short for in my opinion.

oh