Should Nomura Have Telephoned Hayden?

[Oracle Spockanort]

Can Nomura fire SENA (whatever that is) and the voice director? I remember reading/hearing in interviews that they were very specific and involved in getting the voice work down perfectly - which showed in previous numbered titles. How is it that for the numbered title with the biggest budget, the biggest hype, and the biggest cast, the voice director blew it? He didn't even call Hayden!

SENA = Square Enix North America

Bob Buchholtz is a highly respected voice director with dozens of titles under his belt. He did the voice direction for FF7R which was pretty great, and previous FF games before that, and like all of the KH games. I think there is honestly an issue with the disparity between what Bob would likely direct and what the Japanese staff that listen in want from these vocal performances.

 

[Foxycian]

The Japanese voice actress of Kairi is also the voice of Xion, she voiced these two characters since day one, altho I wish for Hayden’s return but wishing for the past is pointless, I’m honestly ok with Alyson she is doing fine, she fits the role.

 

[Idreamaboutcats]

What do you mean I can't have it both ways?

Xion is HER OWN PERSON. Kingdom Hearts isn't some low budget, bargain bin game. Disney can afford to pay for a voice actor to be one character only. I liked that Hayden was Kairi and Alyson was Xion, and Alyson does Xion perfectly. I just don't think she's right for Kairi, and I just feel it's unfair that when Kairi finally gets the focus, Hayden doesn't get even a phone call.

Now now, no need for the all-caps. We're just saying, and like @palizinhas said, they're supposed to be identical. Xion is her own person, yes, but her origin is undeniable: Sora's most precious memory, the person always on his mind. There's nothing wrong with that.

Think of it this way, the Nobodies are identical to their original selves, and even Roxas falls under this rule due to Ven's heart sticking inside Sora's body post-stabbing. Replicas don't have to be any different, and they're sort of a subspecies of Nobody anyway, so it's fine. If it's any consolation, Xion has black hair so...that sets her apart from Kairi (no, you cannot use Naminé as an excuse for many obvious reasons. The canon information already forbids it, and we're not going to do a repeat of the shipping thread fiasco).

Can Nomura fire SENA (whatever that is) and the voice director? I remember reading/hearing in interviews that they were very specific and involved in getting the voice work down perfectly - which showed in previous numbered titles. How is it that for the numbered title with the biggest budget, the biggest hype, and the biggest cast, the voice director blew it? He didn't even call Hayden!

No, he can't. The fact that they screwed him over with XV tells just how little influence he holds in headquarters. The most he got away with is screwing over animation directors with Lulu's belt dress.

Also, this:

I don’t think Nomura can fire the entire North American branch of Square Enix.

If he has little influence in headquarters, he has much less, if any, at the NA subsidiary.

And this:

Bob Buchholtz is a highly respected voice director with dozens of titles under his belt. He did the voice direction for FF7R which was pretty great, and previous FF games before that, and like all of the KH games. I think there is honestly an issue with the disparity between what Bob would likely direct and what the Japanese staff that listen in want from these vocal performances.

Man's experienced. Can't argue with experience.

I do wonder if there are any Disney employees involved with the original character voice production though, besides the VA's I mean.

 

[the red monster]

I don’t think Nomura can fire the entire North American branch of Square Enix.

I legit laughed. thanks.

 

[2 quid is good]

While your right about this so far. I do wonder if this will still be the case the next time the ffvii cast show up. Considering how well received remake's voice acting was.

Bro I'm straight up not gonna have a good time when Yuffie and Vincent get replacement VAs.

And speaking of, I might have said this before but it probably bears merit to say it again, the entire replacement for 7R as well as Hayden really just speaks to something *really weird* and not nice happening at SENA. I just find it incredible that a company that would often go to lengths to get VAs back for minor parts are now willy nilly hiring and firing.

I am aware that one of the FF7R old men devs (I'm not trying to be disrespectful here, but they are old men and I don't remember which one it was who said this) weren't impressed at first by the JP casts "lack of youthfulness" but we've heard Steve Burton do a young Cloud in crisis core and it was GOOD. We've heard every cast member give good performances and I'm positive that with the voice direction the remake got, they would have been even better.

But yeah, we are where we are, where rather than trying to direct someone for a more youthful or princessy sound, outright replacement is used.

 

[SuperSaiyanSora]

What makes you think Nomura is going around personally contacting overseas actors about being involved in these games? It's not only not his job, but he has tons of other things to do and he doesn't understand or speak English. If you have a bone to pick, take it up with the casting director at SENA, or even Hayden's manager/agent in the off chance that they did reach out and the role was refused without her knowledge.

Exactly. See this is why I always get annoyed at the Nomura hate, because a lot of the things people blame him for isn't even his fault. But let's say in this instance, he's responsible for the change... So? If he wants a voice actor changed, he has the right to request that if he feels it's necessary. It's his series. Final Mixes in Japan have typically used the English dub instead of the Japanese dub, so I'm sure he's aware of the differences.

I'm gonna be the Hot-Take Guy (as usual) and say... I'm not bothered by the change at all. I'd care more if Kairi was in the spotlight more in the DS Saga, because I'd certainly care if they changed Sora or Riku's VAs. However since Kairi's been in the backseat for so long and only really had a role worth a damn in KH3, and Xion sorta took her place in terms of importance (people in the fandom loved her more than Kairi pre-KH3)... I get it. I don't know or remember why Hayden didn't voice Xion, but Alyson took the role, and that's just how it ended up. It is what it is.

That's no disrespect to Hayden, and it would've been great to have her return, but like everyone's said already... Who even really knows what happened behind the scenes that played into why she didn't come back? But Xion and Kairi having the same VA for consistency reasons makes sense. It's like wondering why Roxas and Ven or Sora and Vanitas have the same VAs. Considering the connection of the characters, even down to their appearances, it'd be weird to have different VAs. Shit happens. Best case scenario is that Hayden comes back and voices Skuld or Strelitzia or something, but as Kairi... She's not coming back. And it's time people come to grips with that.

But what we're NOT gonna do is disrespect Alyson for her work on the series when she's been doing a great job. Toxicity is never the answer. SENA has their own way of doing things, and while there may be decisions I don't agree with, that's just the way the cookie crumbles. I'm not gonna tell professionals how to do their job, they get paid to do that. If I don't like it, there's always the option to not support it at all.

 

[Audo]

Personally I think a lot of the voice acting in KH3 is an improvement on past titles. Sora is honestly at his best here than he has in years and years, imo. And I think the voice director is stronger than people give him credit it for. FFVIIR was fantastic. I also recently started watching the Big Hero 6 Series for research purposes and I couldn't believe that they were the same actors as in KH3 as their performances in KH3 were so much stronger and sounded so much more like the movie (granted I'm only in the first season and maybe they improve as the show went on, but it is certainly rough to start).

I think the problem rests with them trying to differentiate performances for the characters who share VAs, one of the characters usually suffers for it. HJO for Sora and Vanitas. David for Riku and Dark Riku. Alyson for Xion and Kairi. They clearly tried to make the two performances sound different from the other and it usually makes one of the two characters not sound as natural as the other. I think for Riku for example, they tried to make him sound more calm and "mature" partly to signify his growth as a Master now, but also to contrast him a bit more with Dark Riku who is younger and more emotionally turbulent. Similarly, I think Xion was able to be played more naturally and with a lower voice while Kairi's voice is higher and more princess-y likely.

I already think Kairi sounds more natural in Melody of Memory from what we've seen; likely since she no longer has to play alongside Xion in this game, they let her voice be a bit more relaxed and not as forced to up the differences.

While I do miss Hayden myself as I found her voice naturally had a bit of an edge to it that kind of rounded Kairi's character out a bit more and gave her a really nice quality, it's clear that's not like intended for the character as Kairi's Japanese VA, no disrespect, sounds like helium.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

Bro I'm straight up not gonna have a good time when Yuffie and Vincent get replacement VAs.

And speaking of, I might have said this before but it probably bears merit to say it again, the entire replacement for 7R as well as Hayden really just speaks to something *really weird* and not nice happening at SENA. I just find it incredible that a company that would often go to lengths to get VAs back for minor parts are now willy nilly hiring and firing.

I am aware that one of the FF7R old men devs (I'm not trying to be disrespectful here, but they are old men and I don't remember which one it was who said this) weren't impressed at first by the JP casts "lack of youthfulness" but we've heard Steve Burton do a young Cloud in crisis core and it was GOOD. We've heard every cast member give good performances and I'm positive that with the voice direction the remake got, they would have been even better.

But yeah, we are where we are, where rather than trying to direct someone for a more youthful or princessy sound, outright replacement is used.

I mean, yes I agree, but also the original FF7 VAs aren’t fired. They are going to still voice the character in non-Remake projects unless things have changed between April and now.

Also there are one or two not-so-great stories to tell about how some of the VA changes went down with KH3 but none of it is anything I could tell nor does it help explain why it happened.

I do think Hayden’s situation is different compared to what happened with other VAs. I just genuinely think there was some sort of misunderstanding or miscommunication that led to some assumptions. It was very publicly known that Hayden wasn’t working due to her postpartum depression. I imagine that the people in charge of casting might have had that in mind around the time they did the recording for KH3.

And to reiterate earlier points in this thread, we don’t know if they reached out or not. If they didn’t, it’s a big shame on them for not at least trying. If they did reach out and her agent or manager said no, then it’s her team’s fault for not telling Hayden that she was contacted.

And another good point brought up was that it is very possible that around Days HD Theater’s recording, they might have already decided to stick with Alyson to avoid having to deal with the constant need to check to see if Hayden was free or wanted to do it.

At the end of the day, we just don’t know what happened behind the scenes and without being directly told what happened, we never will.

 

[kirabook]

I will forever be disappointed that Hayden did not return for KH3, nor will she likely be returning at all. It's a similar disappointment with Billy Zane. But what's done is done. There is no point in dwelling on the past. Alyson is now the voice of Kairi and Xion. I don't think her voice fits Kairi, but it is what it is and we'll have to accept it. Dwelling on it for any longer will just make you hate it more and more.

 

[Launchpad]

It doesn't help that Kairi's dialogue is really going the way of Riku, Aqua, and Terra. Judging from KH3, ReMind, and Melody of Memory, Kairi's really turning into yet another Kingdom Hearts character who's all-business, no levity or charm. Hayden wouldn't have done spectacularly on Kairi's lines either, because they're just... Exposition and anime-grunting. Outside of Sora and Axel, most of our original Kingdom Hearts main characters don't display a full range of emotions to seem human. Kairi was quite human in KH1, but she's slowly become one note.

We'd have a better idea of how good Alyson can be if Kairi had some fun in the next game-- If she had a laugh, if she got annoyed, if she saw something cool and got excited.. Only then would Alyson be able to do her job.

 

[Cumguardian69]

No, she is dried up talent not worth the $. Alyson does the Kairi role perfectly. imagine if they wasted money on hayden only to drop KH3 Kairi on us. the salt would be unreal lmfao

 

[Elysium]

I'm not sure why people keep pointing out that Xion and Kairi are voiced by the same person in Japanese. The U.S. fans don't play the Japanese version of the games and Kairi and Xion didn't have the same voice actors for a long time.

Stoner was fine as Xion, but she sucked ass as Kairi. Since Kairi is my least favorite character, it doesn't really bother me so much, but I understand why Kairi fans were / are pissed off since I would feel the same if Osment or Gallagher were replaced, for example. I'm not sure why others feel the need to intervene and make an excuse over something like that. Why it would be threatening to (some) KH fans is beyond me, lol.

 

[Audo]

I'm not sure why people keep pointing out that Xion and Kairi are voiced by the same person in Japanese. The U.S. fans don't play the Japanese version of the games and Kairi and Xion didn't have the same voice actors for a long time.

Alyson voiced Kairi in Re:CoM before she voiced Xion in Days, and she voiced both of them in Days, even on the DS. So they had the same voice actors from the beginning.

 

[AdrianXXII]

Personally I think Alyson is fine. Part of me would like for Hayden to have come back, but she declined to voice Kairi so often, I can't quite blame SENA for deciding to just go with Alyson. She seems to be a talented voice actor. I think she is still figuring out her Kairi voice and how it differs from Xion's.

Her Kairi does sound a bit light and meek, but that's on the directing. I already disliked the change from KH1 to KH2 in how Hayden was directed to voice Kairi. I don't get why Kairi is supposed to sound princessy, I'd rather her sound like a regular girl or at least like a princess like Moana.

Kairi criticisms didn’t really start until after kh2, at the era of Kh1 and kh2 Kairi was loved by many and was a fan favorite to many fans, only when girls like Xion and Aqua (who had more screen time then her) were introduced that people started losing hope in Kairi calling her useless for not doing anything much all These years, tbh kairi’s role started in Kh1 and it felt like it ended in kh2 and we also thought Kh ended in kh2 but the story still goes on, that’s why Kairi needs back her relevance to stand equally with Sora and Riku, MoM is a Good step forward for her, a game story that revolves around her.

You and I seem to have very different memories of the mid 2000s' KH fan base. Even after KH2's release there was a lot of hate for Kairi. People were already calling her useless and were mad that she existed.

However that's mainly the vocal fanbase, from what I experienced a lot of fans, especially the more casual ones always did like Kairi, they just aren't happy with her treatment. And a lot of us that do like her, wish she was a bit more spunky and playful like she was in KH1.

 

[Cumguardian69]

Kairi ENG voice wasn't bad at all, it was perfectly fitting for how flat and useless she was throughout the game. If she had a more active role, it would be better handed to Hayden probably, but given 20 years of this dreaded character I dont think we have reason to believe Kairi will ever have an extended presence like Riku or SORA

 

[2 quid is good]

I mean, yes I agree, but also the original FF7 VAs aren’t fired. They are going to still voice the character in non-Remake projects unless things have changed between April and now

Oh yeah, I definitely didn't overlook that, but I did exaggerate quite a bit in my post though, it's a bad habit I'm trying to tone down. But either way, it's clear the bulk of FF7 content will be the remake and anything else is just cameos. I doubt the compilation is getting a sequel at any rate xD

 

[Chaser]

I don't know why death threats and stalking was brought up

I brought it up because a big part of this toxic gamer culture seems to be this way of thinking "this thing is slightly different, I hate it and want this person to die for it and I'll tell them that." I wasn't saying you were doing this or were going to do that, I just don't want people to see this thread and then decide "you know what, I'm going to harass Alyson / Hayden on Twitter / Instagram."

 

[kirabook]

Looks like we've got an edge lord in here.

Anyway, learning that Hayden wasn't playing Kairi a while back was like a jab in the gut. I was so sure even though she wasn't playing her in 2.8 she would come back for 3. As I said, I'll never not be disappointed about it.

To me, replacing Hayden entirely does feel like replacing Riku or Sora. Like, can you imagine those two getting replaced with someone else that sounds pretty much nothing like them? It's so odd, and yeah, I'd never stop being disappointed.

We'll never know the true story behind they the casting team didn't contact Hayden, but I don't see the point of hating on Alyson. She's FINE. Her voice for Xion is great and very fitting. Her Kairi voice is just... too different from Hayden added onto the fact that it seems Nomura and the casting team now has an obsession with making Kairi more "princess like" whereas in the modern age, the idea of a princess being light and primp is not as big of a thing anymore. (see Moana. Even Rapunzel imo)

That is something I will be annoyed with moving forward. Imagine if they changed direction and tried to force Sora into a prince charming like personality.

 

[rokudamia2]

I mean Japanese voice acting is different as nomura either directs the actors or at least tells them his intentions with a scene. The English voice actors are often given little context as to what their line meqn.

 

[Launchpad]

Looks like we've got an edge lord in here.

4chan can be fun for a laugh but it is painfully embarrassing when someone comes here and broadcasts it as their entire personality as if it's this new, exciting fringe thing that no one has ever witnessed. lol thank u for bringing 4chan level discourse and slang to a website where no one is anonymous, sounds like a very good and not really embarrassing idea