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The Keyblade of Heart unlocks a heart which releases the darkness inside, creating a Heartless.
It was even obvious that Aqua herself struggled to find the right words, she couldn't explain it better right there because she was torn between what to actually believe.
Good point about the Riku Replica.
Good point about the Riku Replica.
Yeah, that's maybe how you would react but Roxas was clearly in a very different mindset at that time. Unlike Sora, who is nearly unanimously selfless, Roxas can be rightfully selfish in some situations and "his ties to Sora" annoyed and angered him more than anything else before he came to terms with his unavoidable fate. He wanted to know why he had the Keyblade and where he came from, his origins, nothing more. Returning to his origins were certainly not on his agenda due to his strong sense for independence.
Naminé's case is a bit more complicated due to her constant low self-esteem (she didn't have such a strong drive and desire to be independent as Roxas had) and feelings of guilt about all the suffering she had inadvertently caused, so it was in part a form of atonement that she choose to disappear. The other part was that, as described in the Secret Ansem Reports in KH 2, Naminé was, existence-wise, even less than a Nobody and thus her existence was fragile and unstable to begin with.
In the very end, both her and Roxas' fates were unavoidable because their current existences couldn't be reasonably maintained in the long run (and in Roxas' case there has to be added the unknown implications this would have meant for Ventus), that's what makes the issue so tragic.
That's however just how Roxas' nature is. One of his traits is that he tends to react to emotional pain with no source of comfort in range by lashing out in anger, and having a short temper in general is another.
Funny thing is, Xemnas and Xigbar also fooled much of the players and audience, even if there were some parts of the fandom who didn't buy the "Nobodies have no hearts"-propaganda from the beginning.
This is why I would love if they carry the whole cast over into the next saga, there's so much potential for all the main characters to interact with each other and see them having grown from their horrific experiences with Xehanort's schemes.
It is surely a matter of interpretation, although there's also the possibility of both sets of sources being true. The ones you are describing are most likely true for Days, while those I mentioned go more for KH 2.
That would contradict his statements though, as even after Naminé finally told him who Sora is he still became angry after regaining all his true memories, trashing the computer and trying to cut down DiZ while screaming that his heart belongs only to him.
Chain of memories said:
That's what Ansem the Wise meant with Sora's strong love for others. Sora being so positive and life-affirming is what enables all this, and Ansem's research data is something like an "instruction manual" on how Sora can effectively use that as a sort of reviving power.
That there is/was something between them was also already hinted at the very beginning when Kairi seemed to sense that something was changing within Riku.
Correct, this was also what motivated the Keyblade to return to Sora in KH 1 after Riku took it. Another thing adding to the depth of Sora's connections is also that he sees everyone he meets as their own individual which has a special place not caring about how they came to exist, as evidenced by his stance towards the Riku Replica after he learned about his origins.
On this topic though we cannot clearly say which little traits and quirks (besides the "hands-behind-head"-gesture) Sora got from his deep connection with Ven and which he developed himself during his childhood as we don't know much about Ventus' past as a kid, the only scenes we get to see of him as a 10year-old is when Xehanort sets the Heartless on him.
So to say that every single similar behaviour between Ven during the course of the BBS game itself and Sora is due to their bond is stretching it a bit too much.
Me too, the possibilities with this plot device are very vast, and since unlike an connection with Xehanort, the bond between Sora and Ventus is more of a symbiotic one which looks like both boys can take equal advantage of, it can be used very effectively in the future of the series if handled correctly.
Heck, maybe Sora and Ven can even mentally talk with each other over vast distances when they are both alive and well around?
No issue.
It is surely a matter of interpretation, although there's also the possibility of both sets of sources being true. The ones you are describing are most likely true for Days, while those I mentioned go more for KH 2.
Statements like "I am ME, nobody else." or "No, my heart belongs to me." show clearly his desire for independence which on another layer also means independence from Sora. He clearly resented at first that Sora was preferred to exist over him, and over that resentment he got only after his fight with Sora.
To differentiate though, I didn't mean that Naminé didn't want to be her own individual on the inside. Her desire to have friends of her own and be with Sora and the others on the islands clearly showed that. Unlike Roxas (and Xion) though she wasn't fighting for it with so much ferocity or openly showing it, which has to do with exactly this low self-esteem and guilt she harbored.
In terms of identity they are all three quite similar though, as they all started with no sense of self at all (due to having no memories) and developed an own over time.
We know that her existence was more fragile because they showed it in the games and talked about it. The secret Ansem reports of KH 2 dedicate several paragraphs which talk about Naminé nature and during the later parts of KH 2 she was constantly blinking in and out of existence, due to her unstable existence as a whole.
Yeah, Kairi may have been fine but Naminé wasn't. Unlike Roxas, who had a stable existence and could have co-existed with Sora just fine (again, disregarding Ven's heart in the mix) without the memory-coma-mess, Naminé didn't even have a body as noted by Ansem the Wise. She was "nothing" in the very sense of the word and her newly grown heart being stored inside Kairi might actually actually be a good thing since it's safe there and can (as we know by now) possibly be reborn as a true full existence.
In that situation though, Roxas had no reason at all to be in his caring mode.
This doesn't rule out though that the Realm of Darkness lies in a totally different layer of reality, which would also explain the time there running much slower than in the Realm of Light. No one knows what happens if you are "killed" or get your heart stolen while inside the dark realm, so we cannot make a clear statement on how "physical" this realm is.
It's pretty clear though that in the context of the reports "ceasing to exist" or disappear means losing your presence in the Realms of light and in-between.
That's why I tend to believe as well. Although her lying on purpose could also be interpreted as a way to try and soothe the tension somewhat, as DiZ was pretty much clear on the issue and dismissed Naminé's words as "nonsense".
The reason Axel didn't report back from C.O. was because he was searching like crazy for the Chamber of Waking on Xemnas' orders.
Later on Axel was sent several times more to C.O., sometimes on Xemnas' and sometimes on Saix' orders to search for the chamber.
Remembering her might be one of the conditions to bring her back, but that's speculation since we don't know how the "bringing back" for anyone works yet.
Either that or they would simply go and alternate which trio gets the main focus in each game of a saga. This does not even have to mean another console split.
It's normal with so long posts.
I also haven't all details in my head, but I tend to have the game scripts and most of the interviews always ready to read up things fast.
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I don't think it really worked...<__<
If you're referring to MX using Young Xehanort as a pawn to fight Riku, yes, that shows just how utterly disregarding for life MX has become, he doesn't even value his own past as more than a tool to follow his mad plans.
It was indeed a crucial point of Riku's story in CoM, as the strength of one's heart seems to be at least partly influenced by the amount and/or the intensity of connections. This would also serve as another explanation to Joshua's line "by ourselves we're no one", meaning a heart completely alone would be very weak and explain further why Sora's heart is nearly always on the top in terms of connection intensity: Sora's connection to Ventus is so deep and intense (since nurtured since his birth), that his heart practically has a sort of "level-bonus" in terms of strength already with it.
I would even go so far and claim that at the base Sora's and Xehanort's ability is the same, it's just used vastly different by both of them, which stems from their utterly opposed views on how life and hearts function and what really matters.
That would be the ideal way to go, yes.
That's because they both see themselves as independent individuals. In DDD Sora only confirmed with actual spoken words what was implied since KH 2: Roxas is himself, just Roxas, not Sora. The same goes vice-versa for Sora himself.
These things are also not lying simply around, it's a puzzle that has to be put together.
Now all they have to do is use this instruction manual properly.
Yeah. But I wonder what it's like for them when they're asleep within his heart.
Yeah, but I'd rather they do something with her unique ability then just give her a keyblade. I wonder where she'll go after she's gotten her own existence. I feel like she'd like to go to the Islands and be with Sora and Riku, but then again she also has ties to the RAX trio which is more based in Twilight Town.
I wonder if Namine's origin and existence will ever truly be explained.
That's true, we do know too little about the realm of darkness to really say what it is other then a counterpart to the realm of light. That's why it would be nice if we got a game that truly focused on an adventure in the RoD.
Well I had the impression that he though her trying to make it easier for Roxas in general was nonsense not really what Namine was saying, but I'd probably have to look this up again.
But that kind of makes Saix's questions about Sora and Namine's whereabouts odd, seeing that would imply that he should have brought them back to the castle or something.
Well they could also have spinn-offs on the same console...
Seems like a good idea, though I miss knowing the whole story by heart, though it's become kind of imposible with so many games and interviews... I'll proably start having the stuff ready to look up.
If you're referring to MX using Young Xehanort as a pawn to fight Riku, yes, that shows just how utterly disregarding for life MX has become, he doesn't even value his own past as more than a tool to follow his mad plans.
Lol, maybe, yet right now this discussion takes quite some attention as well.
Except the new PC Browser game there exist no spin-offs in this series so far.
Knowing the entire story at heart so you don't need to look up some things is close to impossible I would say, only a total KH nerd might manage to do this, and even then.
I don't agree with the people who say that the KH story has become too complicated, but I do agree with those who say that it is a strenuous task to get the puzzle pieces for comprehending together because they're spread so much. Especially since you need the Ultimanias and interviews to be able to make full sense of everything.
If you have all the pieces, the story is pretty easy to follow, if you don't however...
Yep, there is even an interesting parallel drawn to that concept regarding the backstory of Ventus in BBS. This is only in the novels and therefore has to be taken with a grain of salt in terms of canon, but there it is said that Ventus was an orphan who never even knew his parents let alone had some friends despite him being a very gentle and kind individual. Thus having no meaningful connections at first this would explain Ven's diffidence, meekness and utter lack of self-confidence as a child. In his reports in the BBS game Xehanort also reflects on the issue that Ventus is almost too benign and kind, to the point that it actually becomes a weakness.
Who knows, maybe Sora can even turn the tables around and do what Xehanort tried in DDD in reverse by aiding some of the controlled 13 darknesses in breaking free of Xehanort's control, effectively foiling his plans.
They either need to take more time fleshing out their scripts or Nomura needs to hire other script writers. Many of Nomura's ideas and concepts are actually pretty good and interesting, but the presentation of those sadly is subpar more often than not.
Exactly, and it further drives home the point about the message that it doesn't matter where you originated, as long as you have your own dreams, memories and feelings, you are an own individual no matter what some self-righteous "scientist" may claim. That is also a trait that Sora exhibited already in KH Chain of Memories when dealing with the Riku Replica.
Of course, I expect that their main role will most likely be to watch Sora's back and keep Xehanort, Maleficent and the other bad guys off Sora's toes when he's busy bringing back the tormented characters.
It also depends on if it is important to the story. Unlike Disney worlds, which are often used as filler, original worlds almost always had a deeper purpose to the main plot.
That would be neat and would also be a fitting way to free the characters if they so chose to, though I see them being more likely to be "killed off".
Yes this is true. This is also a big theme of the series, your origin doesn’t define you, you do.
Yep, Xehanort only cares about the X-blade and his goal of becoming a god and recreate the universe. He's obsessed with it.
Like said, I also know only translated summaries so far as especially the BBS novels aren't really far translated yet. It was noted that Nomura sometimes gives some additional material from his concepts that are used in the novels by Kanemaki, but I don't remember it being said that he's actively involved in shaping the story of the novels.
It would add at least some realism and show that it really takes place four years before the game, as a 15/16 year old teen looks certainly also different from a 19/20 year old young adult which Aqua and Terra are in the actual game timeline.
Sure, some members can already ruled out of this anyways, as Young Xehanort, Ansem and Xemnas are like "true" Xehanort's so Sora wouldn't be able to sway them. Young Xehanort also cannot be "killed" since that would cause a paradox, so I assume that "defeating" Young MX just sends him back to his time without any back-ticket while Ansem and Xemnas, just like MX himself and most likely Xigbar, will need to be destroyed fully.
The bold sentence indicates that it was something Nomura thought of on purpose.Nomura said:
Due to all the hype and overblown expectations I already expect KH 3 to be not the greatest hit of the series, not to mention the fanbase as a whole has become largely unpleasable.
Yep, and it is seen among the fandom who understood this theme and who not, as those who do actually see Roxas, Naminé, Xion and the Riku Replica as their own individuals just like Sora does.
Sending someone other would defeat the purpose though that it is Sora who is destinied to save all of them. "The only one who can help them is Sora" was stated by Data-Naminé in Coded, and in Blank Points they're all calling to Sora, so just sending someone else would kinda ruin the premise.
It's clear that Kanemaki gives her own spin on everything, incorporating the material provided by Nomura along the way. Since we don't know however which parts in the novels are taken from Nomura's material and which parts are expansions made by Kanemaki, we can only, as you point out, take it closer to canon instead of actual canon. Another thing it is however with parts that have been confirmed either in a later game or interview, those can be taken into the whole picture without any worry. Same goes for parts which are already proven to be false/inaccurate by newer developments.
Who knows, maybe they'll do it when the HD collections bring in enough numbers of new fans, or when KH 3 is finally out and the saga complete.
It would probably also clear up confusion. The scene where Ven's heart is destroyed is already brutal, but using a model that would actually reflect his current age would surely put another punch to the impact.
I would say considering the crimes committed a fate worse than death would be appropriate at least for MX himself, although this would bear the inevitable danger that he may someday escape that fate. Like that while KH 3 is the end of the Xehanort saga, and Nomura does two more sagas with other villains, Xehanort ends up returning in the fourth saga or something.
I generally keep my own expectations low so I'm often positively surprised, *ggg*.
Coded Ultimania said:
It would probably also clear up confusion. The scene where Ven's heart is destroyed is already brutal, but using a model that would actually reflect his current age would surely put another punch to the impact.
For the BBS Trio we do not know any definite ages. Ventus is scaled to be anywhere between 12 and 15 in BBS itself, although most people tend to go with 14/15. Aqua is said to be somewhere between 17 and 20 and Terra anywhere between 19 and 22. Definite is however only that Aqua is younger than Terra and that Ventus is the youngest of the trio.
It would surely drive the parallels to a boiling point.
I guess that has to do with blue eyes very often considered to be a mark of beauty, innocence and inner purity. More morally ambigious "heros" or anti-heros tend to have either violet eyes (like Lelouch from Code Geass), green or sometimes even black.
It's very subtle and not always noticeable due to lighting, but it is there.
That reminds me of Aqua visiting Destiny Islands and actually saying that Sora "is the spitting image of Ven".
This truly has so much potential, lol, it would be a shame if this isn't explored and expanded later on.
Looking at it from another viewpoint Roxas could even be considered the living embodiment/proof of that tightly knitted connection between Sora and Ventus, as he takes something from both of them.
I also won't say that Roxas would be in the same connection of Sora and Ven, but he would have his own connection with both of them, so it would form a sort of triangle.
Even that "pity" of Xehanort has been up to debate already considering that Xehanort doesn't think too highly of DI (prison) and even more important that he himself brought Ven into that near-death state. Getting pity from the bastard who did that to him in the first place would practically only adding insult to injury, so I don't really see why some would use that as an example to show something positive about Xehanort.
I don't expect it, but keep the possibility in mind.
It would surely depend on how this fate worse than death is working, it can be made so it isn't reversible. Yeah, KH also isn't the first series to include bringing back characters, and considering the fanbase is always bickering over such things I guess there would be even those who would be ok with Xehanort returning yet another time somewhere in the fourth of fifth saga (if KH even gets so many, I could also easily imagine that Nomura does only this one new saga or two so he comes to three sagas in total).
It would surely depend on how this fate worse than death is working, it can be made so it isn't reversible. Yeah, KH also isn't the first series to include bringing back characters, and considering the fanbase is always bickering over such things I guess there would be even those who would be ok with Xehanort returning yet another time somewhere in the fourth of fifth saga (if KH even gets so many, I could also easily imagine that Nomura does only this one new saga or two so he comes to three sagas in total).
So far the only willing vessels that we know of are Braig and Isa, and even the latter is already disputed by the fandom.
Going by that, Sora using his heart connection powers to free the unwilling Seekers of Darkness seems almost like a Deus Ex Machina to weaken Xehanort's faction, but hey, Xehanort coming up with time travel was almost a Deus Ex Machina for him too.
There is so much not shown in the games that would help understanding and appreciating the characters as well as the universe itself better. On this note, one might argue that the games are still way too short in general (and waste too much space on mini-games and multiplayer-schmuck).
Who knows, that may be something for the opening hour of kH 3, to find out why Sora still hasn't returned from his trip.
To be blunt I hope there will be a noticeable difference, mainly in the department of more focus put into true character interaction and development. When of such a big cast of original characters only three are developed truly meaningful, the biggest bunch so half-half and some nearly not at all (Hello Kairi!), there needs to be some more effort in direction and using the characters. As Director Nomura can remedy that and do better by just putting some more effort into it, which should be possible time-wise when he has nothing to do with FF anymore except occassionally providing some character designs.
That's also normal though, especially since different fans consider different things to be more important, so unreasonable expectations are bound to happen somewhat.
They can only win if they use the room of the blu-ray properly and really take their time to flesh out things instead of just mentioning plot points or character relationships in passing. Much of the ire KH 2 got was also because while it had an interesting premise, way too much of the plot was rushed and not properly fleshed out. KH 2 Final Mix filled in a lot of content and while it is already much better, it's still far from actual high tier storytelling.
I can understand that, although I primary concern with this is that handling it like that may cause more Kairi-hate in the end if it is handled wrong in KH 3, mainly if fans of other characters will feel like the focus on Kairi is robbing them of learning more of their characters role in the finale.
I remember much ire directed against Xion not only because of her sudden appearance or that she takes even away screentime from both Axel and Roxas, but also because many Org fans felt they learned not enough about the other members of the Organisation.
Ventus may come close, but unlike Kairi his heart of pure light is not natural so I could imagine that, if there are any special powers/abilities that come with having a heart of pure light Kairi would be able to understand and use these powers much more easily and naturally than Ven does and I dare to make the guess that her heart might be also somewhat more resilent due to being of pure light naturally.
Who knows, lol, maybe Kairi can later teach Ven to do something with his pure heart? *ggg*
I don't know if Xehanort even knows that Kairi can wield a Keyblade, as not even Aqua who accidentally made the ceremony knows that.
Hoping for the best is actually the only viable thing to do...
