News ► RUMOR: Austrian retailer Gameware sets November 2020 release for KINGDOM HEARTS Melody of Memory

[james_c]

This is what I'm thinking. Then again, I think the Persona dancing games were full price, although those games were filled with remixes and actual dancing instead of simply rhythm-input. It all depends on what Melody of Memory really has in it. If it's a KH2.8 sort of deal with added content, then that's one thing. If it's a rhythm game alone at $70 and the game itself isn't really meaty, then that's bad on Square's part.

One thing to mention though is that they said that there's 4 modes in Melody of Memory, but I think they've only talked about three. I wonder what the last one is. Also, if Kairi's backstory is tied to Sora's memory, why is it that KH1 Sora's the one tying her past together, shouldn't it be Kairi herself? I know, her heart was in Sora's in KH1, but it still should be her.

If the price is true, then I think MoM is a KH2.8 sort of deal. But man, this is probably the most uneventful KH release ever. Even 2.8 had a lot more fanfare. Ray of Hope is a banger, we got the opening movie preview, stuff with Aqua to look forward to... Man we even had the Back Cover movie (which didn't tell us everything, BUT did tell us a bit about the Foretellers and was an entertaining watch regardless). KH MoM is like... "Oh yeah, we've got a new KH game coming soon............ See ya." COVID-19 is most likely a factor in all of this, so TGS is the next best thing but dang.

My impression was also that they only talked about 3 ways. 63 euros is a bit expensive.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

UPDATE: Gameware removed the date from their website.

 

[AR829038]

Why? What makes a rhythm game less worthy of a full-priced release compared to anything else?
Just like anything else, there are rhythm games released at full price (Project Diva, DJMAX, Taiko), and budget titles released for less (Amplitude PS4, Invector, MUSYNX)

Because rhythm games are more rudimentary by design. If it can be mechanically tailored to simplistic mobile game markets, it's not an ideal format for a triple-A title. And, as 2 quid mentioned, it seems the game will rely primarily on outdated PS2-era graphics (though doubtless touched up a bit in UE4) outside of cutscenes, which also devalues the worth of the title.
I wouldn't pay $60+ for a game that looked graphically 20 years old and was gameplay-wise just a really long and glorified rendition of Candy Crush. The format that this series does best with (real-time action RPG) allows for a much greater scope of complexity, strategy, growth, and exploration than a rhythm game does, which sets this title far below the rest of the series proper in terms of quality and value, which in turn makes it unthinkable that they would even think of charging KH3 prices for it. Unless there's a LOT about this game we don't even know about yet.

 

[The_Echo]

Maybe the fact it's using decade old assets and a gameplay system ripped straight from two previous titles? As much as I would love KH Theatrythm, there's nothing groundbreaking, visually or otherwise, that point to it justifying the same type of price that a 30 hour game with brand new graphics and a new gameplay system had.

Like you said, there are budget titles released for far less, and this is a budget title.

Really it was more pointed at the attitude that rhythm games, as a genre, should not cost as much as others.
But the age or quality of assets isn't a determinate factor in price. Nor is, really, anything else.
Companies price what they think they can get away with.
This is Kingdom Hearts, and this is Square Enix, so you should prepare yourself for a $60 pricetag.
If it's lower that's great, but I'm not expecting it (and personally don't see a problem with it).

For reference, the lower-priced titles I mentioned were a Kickstarter game (Amplitude, the PS2 original having been full-priced), an indie game (Invector), and a very low-budget Korean game (MUSYNX, which ironically is the most expensive of the three).
The first two have tracklists of less than 30 songs, local and online multiplayer and leaderboards, and a handful of small scenes comprising a "story." 20 bucks.
MUSYNX has a big tracklist, but that's it. There isn't even really a menu, just song selection. 30 bucks.

So if that's what a budget title looks like, then Melody of Memory can easily justify full price by comparison with 140 songs, multiple playable characters, a story mode (which appears to have optional challenges to clear), co-op and versus modes. And there might even be more we don't know about yet.

Because rhythm games are more rudimentary by design. If it can be mechanically tailored to simplistic mobile game markets, it's not an ideal format for a triple-A title.

The complexity of the game's design is not the metric by which games are priced. As stated before, there are a variety of full-priced rhythm franchises (of varying skill and complexity).

and was gameplay-wise just a really long and glorified rendition of Candy Crush.

Now you're just bein' nasty.

The format that this series does best with (real-time action RPG) allows for a much greater scope of complexity, strategy, growth, and exploration than a rhythm game does, which sets this title far below the rest of the series proper in terms of quality and value

I really don't like, and frankly don't even understand, this idea that rhythm games (in particular, it seems, as I've noticed this line of thought a lot in KH spaces recently) are somehow of inherently less value than any other genre of game, or that they're on-par with mobile games, or anything else like that.

 

[Cumguardian69]

I really don't like, and frankly don't even understand, this idea that rhythm games (in particular, it seems, as I've noticed this line of thought a lot in KH spaces recently) are somehow of inherently less value than any other genre of game, or that they're on-par with mobile games, or anything else like that.

The idea behind rhythm games, especially that of teathrhythm, is that they are largely existing music (the likes of which have been paid for literally ages ago), put on an on-rails visual background while you press keys in a lock/step fashion. Meaning, from a consumer perspective, they are "simple" games and "likely" don't require anywhere near the amount of manpower and talent to develop and release.

Of course, we all know that isn't even remotely true (game development isn't easy no matter what is being developed), but that's the idea.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

I just want to add my two cents to this and mention that they aren’t just paying for development costs, but also song rights and royalties depending on the contracts they have. Rhythm games can get very expensive even when it is the company’s own music because of the sorts of agreements they have with composers and vocal artists.

Ishimoto and Shimomura are both rather expensive freelance composers. Not to mention the royalties they probably pay to Disney composers for arrangements of certain songs.

$60 USD might be a lot to people for a rhythm game, but there are a lot more intricate things happening behind scenes to make a game like MoM possible.

(That said, the 60 Euros price probably is inaccurate)

 

[2 quid is good]

Sorry, but I remain unconvinced of it's price, but then again I was in a minority of people who felt Remind was overpriced. I suppose it boils down to personal preference at the end of the day, as with anything.

 

[Cumguardian69]

Sorry, but I remain unconvinced of it's price, but then again I was in a minority of people who felt Remind was overpriced. I suppose it boils down to personal preference at the end of the day, as with anything.

Realistically, the game will be $60USD, which is par for the course and should be expected from SE (see FFXV then FFXV Royal Edition, KH3 then KHRemind, then KH Al lin One). However, keep in mind that KHMOM will absolutely see a price cut 3-5 months in, which is also to be expected (KH3 went from $60 on launch to $30 in August 2019).

What majority believed Remind to be fairly (or worse, under) priced? It was less than 6 hours of extra content, half of it recycled lol

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

Sorry, but I remain unconvinced of it's price, but then again I was in a minority of people who felt Remind was overpriced. I suppose it boils down to personal preference at the end of the day, as with anything.

I think it is fine to personally not feel MoM would be worth it at that price point for you, but most people are worried you are undervaluing the work and licensing fees that is making it $60 to begin with.

Did people really think Remind was fairly priced? I think I remember plenty of discussion stating it was highly overpriced. Even if somebody were told spend forever playing the data bosses, $30 is not the normal price for any standalone DLC. I can’t say I liked the fact that it recycled segments. I do think that there is a difference in our own opinions and what SE felt was reasonable for the cost of labor, resources, and the various fees they pay.

When you look at it from that standpoint, the DLC is worth it for all of the resources that went into it.

I’m not going to attempt to change your mind on any of it, but they price this stuff where they do for a reason.

 

[AR829038]

I just want to add my two cents to this and mention that they aren’t just paying for development costs, but also song rights and royalties depending on the contracts they have. Rhythm games can get very expensive even when it is the company’s own music because of the sorts of agreements they have with composers and vocal artists.

Ishimoto and Shimomura are both rather expensive freelance composers. Not to mention the royalties they probably pay to Disney composers for arrangements of certain songs.

$60 USD might be a lot to people for a rhythm game, but there are a lot more intricate things happening behind scenes to make a game like MoM possible.

(That said, the 60 Euros price probably is inaccurate)

That all may very well be true, but I fail to see how these additional costs are fairly transferred to the price tag that the customer has to pay. I mean, I don't doubt that re-establishing the rights and whatnot behind the scenes for legal/development purposes is expensive, but it's not the same kind of expense as, say, high-budget graphics or something else which the player actually gets as a fresh new experience. And while yes, the player will technically "experience" the tracks in the game because of these costs, I don't think it's fair to count that as something for which the customer should be expected to pay, since most if not all the tracks in this game are tracks we've all heard in numerous other titles, none of them even remixed it would seem. I don't think it's reasonable to excuse the huge price tag on recycled content, no matter if the developers had to pay extra on their end to secure added rights. And if that is the case, then it seems an even greater blunder on SE's part—from a financial as well as gameplay perspective—that they would choose to make a rhythm game instead of a real action RPG title, seeing as all that extra expense doesn't translate into anything on the player's end.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

That all may very well be true, but I fail to see how these additional costs are fairly transferred to the price tag that the customer has to pay. I mean, I don't doubt that re-establishing the rights and whatnot behind the scenes for legal/development purposes is expensive, but it's not the same kind of expense as, say, high-budget graphics or something else which the player actually gets as a fresh new experience. And while yes, the player will technically "experience" the tracks in the game because of these costs, I don't think it's fair to count that as something for which the customer should be expected to pay, since most if not all the tracks in this game are tracks we've all heard in numerous other titles, none of them even remixed it would seem. I don't think it's reasonable to excuse the huge price tag on recycled content, no matter if the developers had to pay extra on their end to secure added rights. And if that is the case, then it seems an even greater blunder on SE's part—from a financial as well as gameplay perspective—that they would choose to make a rhythm game instead of a real action RPG title, seeing as all that extra expense doesn't translate into anything on the player's end.

None of us can do a genuine cost breakdown since we don't have access to that information or know just how they calculated what price point would make them a profit, but as consumers we are almost always taking the brunt of the development and licensing fees in the price tag given. This is just the reality of being the end user.

MoM might not have the same budget as something like KH3, but Disney's funding might play a role in cost. KH3 would have received a lot of funding from Disney whereas I imagine MoM, despite being a budget title, would have gotten significantly less money from Disney and that would require SE to offset the cost of developing and fees into the price tag.

The extra expense does translate onto the player's end. The game is rhythm game. The music is the core component of the game.

I don't particularly agree with MoM costing $60 knowing what we know about it, but I understand to a small degree where they would have gotten that price from if that ends up being the legitimate retail price.

I should state that I'm not arguing to defend the price, but rather I'm merely pointing out that we don't know what is going on internally but the music fees could be a big component of it.

Maybe I'm wrong and they will price it at $60 because SE is greedy

 

[SuperSaiyanSora]

I think the issue is that we don't know anything about MoM besides that trailer they kinda just added to the Kingdom Hearts 2020 video. So people's feelings towards a $60 game for something that seems straightforward isn't something we should dismiss. Square might feel it's justified, but if a lot of people don't, you can't blame them. People felt $30 for ReMind was too expensive, and while I personally found value in it, I get it. Not to mention that the game is canon, so it's not one you can skip either.

Everyone should be compensated, but it's still gotta be valuable enough for people to willingly buy it for that price. I'm still gonna buy it, but I completely understand those who feel like they'd rather put their money towards something else.

If there's over 140 songs, then that's not a short game by any means, but still. I think once we get an actual dedicated MoM trailer, people will be more excited though.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

I think the issue is that we don't know anything about MoM besides that trailer they kinda just added to the Kingdom Hearts 2020 video. So people's feelings towards a $60 game for something that seems straightforward isn't something we should dismiss. Square might feel it's justified, but if a lot of people don't, you can't blame them. People felt $30 for ReMind was too expensive, and while I personally found value in it, I get it. Not to mention that the game is canon, so it's not one you can skip either.

Everyone should be compensated, but it's still gotta be valuable enough for people to willingly buy it for that price. I'm still gonna buy it, but I completely understand those who feel like they'd rather put their money towards something else.

If there's over 140 songs, then that's not a short game by any means, but still. I think once we get an actual dedicated MoM trailer, people will be more excited though.

Yeah, nobody should buy this game at $60 if they feel that personally it isn't worth $60.

I think that is a completely different opinion from "this game is objectively not worth $60 because it's just recycled content/just a rhythm game/etc.", though.

They really need to get a new trailer out. It is really baffling to go this long without any promotional material to clear up what this game is. It doesn't have to be much, either. Just something so we aren't all confused. We know more about the OST than we do this game xD

 

[the red monster]

Did people really expect a new kingdom hearts game with kh3 level of cutscenes and disney songs to not be 60$?

also you can always wait for sale. games like this will drop quickly into 20-30$ range after couple of months (unless you plan to buy it on switch lol)

 

[Cumguardian69]

Did people really expect a new kingdom hearts game with kh3 level of cutscenes and disney songs to not be 60$?

We don't know the extent of the UE4 cutscenes, their nature (e.g. it's highly likely MoM UE4 cutscenes are cut content from ReMIND, which itself is cut content from KH3 repackaged), or even how "new" MoM is (see again the cut content argument). We just don't know. Anyone who is making blanketed statements about the price is going on the assumption that MoM is a standard rhythm game with sprinkles of KH story, we cannot say for sure one way or the other that the game ACTUALLY IS this or that.

 

[Absent]

KH games lose value really quickly so I ain't worried. The switch version on the other hand...

 

[Sign]

We don't know the extent of the UE4 cutscenes, their nature (e.g. it's highly likely MoM UE4 cutscenes are cut content from ReMIND, which itself is cut content from KH3 repackaged), or even how "new" MoM is (see again the cut content argument). We just don't know. Anyone who is making blanketed statements about the price is going on the assumption that MoM is a standard rhythm game with sprinkles of KH story, we cannot say for sure one way or the other that the game ACTUALLY IS this or that.

Just like you cannot say for sure that any of this content has been cut so it'd be greatly appreciated if you'd stop spreading that around as if it's fact.

 

[Cumguardian69]

Just like you cannot say for sure that any of this content has been cut so it'd be greatly appreciated if you'd stop spreading that around as if it's fact.

I never did spread it around as fact. I purposefully qualified it with a "highly likely". (ReMIND itself is cut content confirmed from the man himself, but that's really not the subject of the thread.)

But even so, we still don't know the nature of MoM. I might have my opinion, and you yours, but we literally need to wait and see what develops before we can say it's worth this or that amount of money.

 

[Sign]

I never did spread it around as fact. I purposefully qualified it with a "highly likely". (ReMIND itself is cut content confirmed from the man himself, but that's really not the subject of the thread.)

But even so, we still don't know the nature of MoM. I might have my opinion, and you yours, but we literally need to wait and see what develops before we can say it's worth this or that amount of money.

No one on staff has ever said they've cut content. Yasue made the point of reiterating that they didn't numerous times both before and after launch.

 

[Luminary]

I don’t really see the point of arguing that something is “cut content” and is therefore worth less. It is pretty normal for content to be cut and used later across all kinds of media. Often it can be for the best as the ideas and concepts become more fleshed out as a result, making those ideas worth more than they would have been otherwise.

But in this case, I don’t think it is likely that this is cut ReMind content. Since the projects were being developed at the same time, Nomura probably planned from the start for these scenes to be in MoM rather than ReMind. I think MoM and Kairi’s story in it were always meant to be like a sort of companion piece to ReMind. Even the coda in the ReMind logo can be interpreted as an intended connection.