Riku's Nobody



REGISTER TO REMOVE ADS
Status
Not open for further replies.

yamibakura

New member
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Messages
167
Location
Shadow Realm
If ansem took possesion of rikus body and banished his heart to the realm of darkness shouldnt rikus inner darkness be converted into a heartless and his body become a nobody.And why did ansem need rikus body?If he was bodiless he would maintain his time travel abilities.Also if he was in full command of darkness couldnt he manifest a body using his powers?
 

FudgemintGuardian

"Indeeeeeeeeeeeeed."
Joined
Jan 16, 2012
Messages
5,388
  • The Foreteller
  • Put That Thing Back Where It Came From
  • Savage Nymph
  • Come So Far
  • Beauty Within
  • O, Purest of Hearts
And the most he could manifest was the brown cloak. Ansem needed Riku's body because, well, he needed a body. Floating hearts can't do much on there own. Like hold things.
My memory is a little iffy but I remember something about that at that point, Ansem didn't have the time travel powers anymore (Gram, someone, please correct me on that.)
 

Gram

Banned
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
15,616
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • Master of Monologues
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 ReMIX
  • Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance
  • Keyblade Master
If ansem took possesion of rikus body and banished his heart to the realm of darkness shouldnt rikus inner darkness be converted into a heartless and his body become a nobody
Nope. Being force out of your body and becoming a heartless are two different things entirely plus Riku couldn't form a nobody if his body was already being used by Ansem. =P

And why did ansem need rikus body?If he was bodiless he would maintain his time travel abilities.Also if he was in full command of darkness couldnt he manifest a body using his powers?
Never stated why but it's obvious he at least needed Riku's body to be physical again. Can't really do much when your just a disembodied heart in a cloak.
He didn't need to worry about his time travel abilities because he had already transferred that ability to Young Xehanort and sent him on his mission.
You'd think but apparently Ansem prefers real bodies.
 

Zettaflare

Junior Detective
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
9,984
Location
California
  • Nothing's Like Before
  • Anguis Union
The OP did bring up an interesting point. Why didn`t Ansem just use his powers to make himself a new body? I don`t doubt he would have the ability to do so. Seems kind of baffling that he just to stay a wandering heart for a decade when you really think about it.
 

FudgemintGuardian

"Indeeeeeeeeeeeeed."
Joined
Jan 16, 2012
Messages
5,388
  • The Foreteller
  • Put That Thing Back Where It Came From
  • Savage Nymph
  • Come So Far
  • Beauty Within
  • O, Purest of Hearts
The OP did bring up an interesting point. Why didn`t Ansem just use his powers to make himself a new body? I don`t doubt he would have the ability to do so. Seems kind of baffling that he just to stay a wandering heart for a decade when you really think about it.
Maybe he didn't know he could do that? *laughs*
Kairi made a new body (kinda) for Sora, so one would assume Ansem could just whip up his own, but the ability to make a (kinda) body could be exclusive to the PoH. Kairi's our only example of (kinda) body making (I think,) so we don't have much to go on the who and how of it.
Maybe I should also note that Kairi made a (kinda) body for someone else, not herself?
 
Last edited:

Oracle Spockanort

the only villain on staff
Staff member
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
31,972
Age
27
Location
California
Website
twitter.com
  • Put That Thing Back Where It Came From
  • 15th Anniversary
  • Just Short of the Mark
  • Advanced Chain of Memories
  • Beauty Within
  • No Name
The OP did bring up an interesting point. Why didn`t Ansem just use his powers to make himself a new body? I don`t doubt he would have the ability to do so. Seems kind of baffling that he just to stay a wandering heart for a decade when you really think about it.
Because it likely is not an easy process, and we don't know if Ansem would even have that ability. (This is something many of us do not agree on, but it is the only thing that logically makes sense) No person has exhibited that specific ability in this series at any point. We've had similar events happen, though.

1) When Riku has a "physical" form as he wanders through the Darkness until ASoD is defeated and his body is given back.
2) When Kairi purifies the Darkness around Sora's heart and it creates a physical form until Sora returns to Roxas in KH2.

Neither of those were "bodies" as we know them in the trinity of a Body, Heart, and Soul that comprise any one person. There was still an imbalance.

And it isn't baffling at all. Being just a heart gave him the ability of time travel along with the ability ti travel through the realms without the worry of his body being corrupted by the Darkness. Also no body means no aging.

And the same could be asked of Xehanort. Why didn't he just make a bunch of replicas of himself and stick a fragment of his heart inside of them rather than having 12 other people with his heart inside of them?

We don't know.
 

yamibakura

New member
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Messages
167
Location
Shadow Realm
Yes thats what i thought too.If he is the ultimate dark lord why not create a body himself and use rikus?Maybe rikus connection to the keyblade was what he went after.But then again in the final battle he didi not use any keyblade at all so why bother picking uo riku.
Nope. Being force out of your body and becoming a heartless are two different things entirely plus Riku couldn't form a nobody if his body was already being used by Ansem. =P
That is true indeed but i still cant understand why rikus heart remained unharmed and not be consumed by darkness.Also there where instances when forcing a heart out creates a heartless.Sora stabbed himself in KH1 and produced a heartless.Also he didnt do that intentionally he just released his heart.Also xehanort released braigs heart in DDD and produced a heartless.
The use of keayblade affecting the outcome of freeing a heart is a lie.Xehanrot released his heart and put it in terras body yet no nobody was produced.Sora released his heart and produced a heartless unintentionally.So ithink the creation of a heartless is up to the victims inner strangth and has nothinh to do with the method that is used.Also in the experiment Xehanrot did heartless where made without a KEYBLADE.
 

Oracle Spockanort

the only villain on staff
Staff member
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
31,972
Age
27
Location
California
Website
twitter.com
  • Put That Thing Back Where It Came From
  • 15th Anniversary
  • Just Short of the Mark
  • Advanced Chain of Memories
  • Beauty Within
  • No Name
Maybe he didn't know he could do that?
Kairi made a new body for Sora, so one would assume Ansem could just whip up his own, but the ability to make a body could be exclusive to the PoH. Kairi's our only example of body making (I think,) so we don't have much to go on the who and how of it.
Maybe I should also note that Kairi made a body for someone else, not herself?
I'm going to argue that she didn't make him a body. She made Sora a physical form, yes, but that isn't necessarily a body.
 

FudgemintGuardian

"Indeeeeeeeeeeeeed."
Joined
Jan 16, 2012
Messages
5,388
  • The Foreteller
  • Put That Thing Back Where It Came From
  • Savage Nymph
  • Come So Far
  • Beauty Within
  • O, Purest of Hearts
I'm going to argue that she didn't make him a body. She made Sora a physical form, yes, but that isn't necessarily a body.
I was already editing in some "kinda"s before your reply. *laughs*All those kindas look weird now after reading it again...

EDIT: Sort of to do with the body topic but, didn't Sora age in the pod? I would assume if the form Kairi gave Sora wasn't a true body then it wouldn't age. I mean it could, but, never mind, I dunno.
 
Last edited:

Oracle Spockanort

the only villain on staff
Staff member
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
31,972
Age
27
Location
California
Website
twitter.com
  • Put That Thing Back Where It Came From
  • 15th Anniversary
  • Just Short of the Mark
  • Advanced Chain of Memories
  • Beauty Within
  • No Name
I was already editing in some "kinda"s before your reply. *laughs*

EDIT: Sort of to do with the body topic but, didn't Sora age in the pod? I would assume if the form Kairi gave Sora wasn't a true body then it wouldn't age. I mean it could, but, never mind, I dunno.
It would have to do with the fact that Sora and Roxas were co-existing at the same time rather than Sora being a Heartless.
 

Gram

Banned
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
15,616
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • Master of Monologues
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 ReMIX
  • Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance
  • Keyblade Master
That is true indeed but i still cant understand why rikus heart remained unharmed and not be consumed by darkness.Also there where instances when forcing a heart out creates a heartless.Sora stabbed himself in KH1 and produced a heartless.Also he didnt do that intentionally he just released his heart.Also xehanort released braigs heart in DDD and produced a heartless.
The use of keayblade affecting the outcome of freeing a heart is a lie.Xehanrot released his heart and put it in terras body yet no nobody was produced.Sora released his heart and produced a heartless unintentionally.So ithink the creation of a heartless is up to the victims inner strangth and has nothinh to do with the method that is used.Also in the experiment Xehanrot did heartless where made without a KEYBLADE.
First and foremost the Riku bit is purely to his strength of heart. Rikus been mentioned several times to have an exceptionally strong heart. Someone like that won't submit to darkness and form a heartless easily.

Second of all watch the opening scene of DDD and you'll see the apprentice Xehanort whipping out MXs keyblade and using it to make Braig a heartless.

Thirdly the keyblade used by Sora is a special one, one that Andem-Riku says up front that draws out darkness. Sora used it to free Kairis heart but the consequence is his own fell to its now released darkness.

Fifthly yes you are right. It's been pointed out since KH1 that ones own strength determines outcomes. Those who are weak and give into their darkness form a heartless.
The differences however is that Apprentice Xehanort willingly changed into a heartless and says as such in kh1 reports. That was his intended outcome, he submitted to that darkness willingly.
Sora released his unintentionally and was consumed by it making a heartless.
MX however didn't give into darkness but just released his heart. He never submitted to darkness.
 

yamibakura

New member
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Messages
167
Location
Shadow Realm
First of all riku didnt have aphysical form.He was just heart that was able to project its human apperance but he wasnt physical at all.Second a heartless is abeing of darkness that has discarded its body yet it has some sort of "matter".Kairi just purified soras darkness.So sora at that point is just a huge pile of light energy that materializes into a body.
Back to topic ,riku in KH1 was weak and exploitable so if his heart was forced out , considering his rather low spiritual reasistances,a heartless should be created.

He lost the keyblade 2 times because he was valurunable to darkness.He couldnt have that much strenght in his heart to fight back.

Also the brown cloak is just a brown cloak.Its not a hooded man its just a floating hood XD.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Gram

Banned
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
15,616
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • Master of Monologues
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 ReMIX
  • Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance
  • Keyblade Master
First of all riku didnt have aphysical form.He was just heart that was able to project its human apperance but he wasnt physical at all.Second a heartless is abeing of darkness that has discarded its body yet it has some sort of "matter".Kairi just purified soras darkness.So sora at that point is just a huge pile of light energy that materializes into a body.
Back to topic ,riku in KH1 was weak and exploitable so if his heart was forced out , considering his rather low spiritual reasistances,a heartless should be created.
A) I never said Riku had a physical form, not once.
B) Heartless aren't "matter" they are "darkness made real". This is explained several times in kh1 and even Yen Sid says it in KH2. Being made of darkness and being a heart projecting a physical form are two different things entirely.
C) We don't know what Sora was, only that he was physical. His physical form and the one Riku had in that one final mix scene have not been explained. We only know they was neither heartless nor was they in their bodies.

Wrong again. Riku was exploitable but he wasn't weak. He was worthy of a keyblade, he was able to wield darkness, and he was even considered worth Ansem's time. Riku's heart was far from weak and always has been.
A heartless by the way is born from a heart consumed by darkness, being kicked out of his body did not make Riku become consumed. The very fact you see him walking around with a human appearance shows this. To think he formed a heartless is just ignoring facts.

He lost the keyblade 2 times because he was valurunable to darkness.He couldnt have that much strenght in his heart to fight back.

Also the brown cloak is just a brown cloak.Its not a hooded man its just a floating hood XD.
Incorrect. The keyblade doesn't give a damn about darkness. If it did, MX wouldn't be able to use one, Terra wouldn't be able to use his, or later Riku in KH2.
What caused the keyblade to abandon Riku was his choices. Also Riku only lost his keyblade once.
The first time Sora got it he didn't truly own it.

Wrong again, there is definitely a form of something under that hood:
 
Last edited:

Oracle Spockanort

the only villain on staff
Staff member
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
31,972
Age
27
Location
California
Website
twitter.com
  • Put That Thing Back Where It Came From
  • 15th Anniversary
  • Just Short of the Mark
  • Advanced Chain of Memories
  • Beauty Within
  • No Name
I never said Riku had a physical form, not once.
(He might have been referring to me with that comment, but I had "physical" in quotes to denote the difference in how Sora was physical compared to how Riku had a "physical" look to him rather than being a floating heart in Darkness)
 

Gram

Banned
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
15,616
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • Master of Monologues
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 ReMIX
  • Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance
  • Keyblade Master
(He might have been referring to me with that comment, but I had "physical" in quotes to denote the difference in how Sora was physical compared to how Riku had a "physical" look to him rather than being a floating heart in Darkness)
Ahh that would make sense. My bad.

Also just to end this before it goes further:

---In the ending, why were Riku and the King on the other side of the door?

Nomura: In the King’s case, he was on the other side from the beginning. The reason why the King disappeared was because in search for one of the two keys, he went to the other side of the world. He had an adventure unfold just like Sora, and he obtained the key and ended up there.

In Riku’s case, his body was stolen by Ansem, so that means Riku’s heart was not in this realm anymore. As you saw on the other side of the door, it is darkness. And that side of the world, in other words, in the end Riku’s heart went to the world of darkness just like Ansem said. Then when Ansem disappears and Riku’s body returns to him, he stayed in the world of darkness.
link: Kingdom Hearts Ultimania - KH Ultimania - Nomura Interview (part 3)

From the ultimania and mouth of Nomura himself. He explains here quite simply that it was Riku's heart on the other side (Dark Realm) and that his body was taken then returned. No heartless, no nobody.
 

Oracle Spockanort

the only villain on staff
Staff member
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
31,972
Age
27
Location
California
Website
twitter.com
  • Put That Thing Back Where It Came From
  • 15th Anniversary
  • Just Short of the Mark
  • Advanced Chain of Memories
  • Beauty Within
  • No Name
I was refferig to Master Spockanort post when saying physical.There is no form under the hood its only a coat like Phantom in clock tower.
Well, like I explained to Anagram I did not mean physical or I wouldn't have had the quotes around the word denoting a loose meaning.

Also on Ansem SoD, it may not be a "physical" body but that hood can't have a specific form without something giving it shape. It might not be a body, but it is a form or essence that moves. Darkness and his heart.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top