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Riku's actions in KHII are rather ironic...



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Ikkin

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Riku goes through so much in Chain of Memories to try to deal with his inner darkness, and yet... in a way, he winds up doing a complete 360 by the beginning of KHII.

...and no, I don't mean that in the "I'm silly and don't realize that doing a 360 would take you right back to where you started" sense. =P

Think about it... In the first KH, Riku's a villain because he gave in to the darkness and went around kidnapping the Disney Princesses, because Maleficent told him he'd be able to wake Kairi up by doing that.

In KHII, Riku's a hero, but he still gave in to the darkness and kidnapped Roxas, because DiZ told him it would wake Sora up.

Sure, there's a few rather significant differences - KH Riku was a complete jerk to Sora unnecessarily, and kidnapping Roxas really was necessary for Sora to wake up - but, beyond that, it's basically just the side that changes.

It's kind of interesting to think about - both in the "Does Riku realize this and hold it against himself?" sense and in the "Why is it so easy for us to accept KHII Riku's actions as good while KH Riku's very similar actions are clearly wrong" sense.

...or maybe I just think about stuff too much. xD
 

Hyrenking

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Wow, I've got to say, when I read the topic, I expected much less. I'm impressed. I honestly didn't notice how similar the kidnapping Riku is in both the games, I kinda feel dumb.(that is what he's doing in the first one while with Maleficent, right?)
Keep it up!
 

Xziled

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people as a society tend to sympathize for people that are good doing something good for the greater good while they will more than likely look down on someone that does something bad for the greater good. its a little hard to understand but you get the general idea
 

SeaSalt IceCream

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Does Riku realize this and hold it against himself?"
I think it's an intresting thought, perhaps I think Riku only saw this as a way to avenge Sora because face it, if the nobodies hadn't done that then Sora would be still ok. Still yes I also think he did this cause it had to be done. I think perhaps the choice was easy what he did to Roxas cause he had always been told they had no feelings, still perhaps Riku saw through this lie and infact he did see Roxas was suffering hence the words "Poor thing" Still Riku knew that saw was a lot more important to the world being whole than Roxas having his own existance, Roxas pretty much as far as we know never made the world a better place infact he was probably helping them make it evil... So yes Riku's opinion of a Princess has changed.... Roxas is a Princess...

Why is it so easy for us to accept KHII Riku's actions as good while KH Riku's very similar actions are clearly wrong
Oh it is very easy, Why? Because Roxas is on the "bad" side. Besides I hate how everyone feels sorry for Roxas, he got what most other nobodies died to have, He got himself a heart! Infact Riku saved both parties. Roxas was bound to be destroyed by Xemnas if he didn't obey him... All the Org would be after him, Axel said it himself. "Look at what it's come to.... I've been given these icky orders to destroy you if you refuse to come back with me." Hmmm.... Yes indeed I see it that Riku was doing Roxas a favour, cause really Roxas IS Sora, everyone forgets that!
Without Sora Roxas is no one.... Hence the name.... Nobody.
 

Xziled

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I think it's an intresting thought, perhaps I think Riku only saw this as a way to avenge Sora because face it, if the nobodies hadn't done that then Sora would be still ok. Still yes I also think he did this cause it had to be done. I think perhaps the choice was easy what he did to Roxas cause he had always been told they had no feelings, still perhaps Riku saw through this lie and infact he did see Roxas was suffering hence the words "Poor thing" Still Riku knew that saw was a lot more important to the world being whole than Roxas having his own existance, Roxas pretty much as far as we know never made the world a better place infact he was probably helping them make it evil... So yes Riku's opinion of a Princess has changed.... Roxas is a Princess...


Oh it is very easy, Why? Because Roxas is on the "bad" side. Besides I hate how everyone feels sorry for Roxas, he got what most other nobodies died to have, He got himself a heart! Infact Riku saved both parties. Roxas was bound to be destroyed by Xemnas if he didn't obey him... All the Org would be after him, Axel said it himself. "Look at what it's come to.... I've been given these icky orders to destroy you if you refuse to come back with me." Hmmm.... Yes indeed I see it that Riku was doing Roxas a favour, cause really Roxas IS Sora, everyone forgets that!
Without Sora Roxas is no one.... Hence the name.... Nobody.

yea that sums it up but towards the endriku kinda regretted it cuz he told sora that roxas was looking for him anyways
 

SeaSalt IceCream

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yea that sums it up but towards the endriku kinda regretted it cuz he told sora that roxas was looking for him anyways
lol Yeah Roxas got what he wanted, he got his answers, and a Heart. Most nobodies die wanting that so really What's with all the Roxas Pity? *Thinks* . . .
 

marvx12

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Well I think they are two very different things. In KH, he was kidnapping the DP's for a bad reason, to open up the heart of HB. He was doing it for Kairi, but it was going to have a bad outcome. In KH2, he kidnaps Roxas for a good reason, to bring revenge on Org. 13. He was doing it for Sora, and it was going to have a good outcome. So I guess it really depends on the outcomes of situations, or what the main goal is.
 

SeaSalt IceCream

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i think people just sympathize for cuz they think they can relate
Relate to what? :S I can't see it... Who is apart of an organisation who works to every effort to get themselves a heart?
 

canito_q

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Riku goes through so much in Chain of Memories to try to deal with his inner darkness, and yet... in a way, he winds up doing a complete 360 by the beginning of KHII.

...and no, I don't mean that in the "I'm silly and don't realize that doing a 360 would take you right back to where you started" sense. =P

Think about it... In the first KH, Riku's a villain because he gave in to the darkness and went around kidnapping the Disney Princesses, because Maleficent told him he'd be able to wake Kairi up by doing that.

In KHII, Riku's a hero, but he still gave in to the darkness and kidnapped Roxas, because DiZ told him it would wake Sora up.

Sure, there's a few rather significant differences - KH Riku was a complete jerk to Sora unnecessarily, and kidnapping Roxas really was necessary for Sora to wake up - but, beyond that, it's basically just the side that changes.

It's kind of interesting to think about - both in the "Does Riku realize this and hold it against himself?" sense and in the "Why is it so easy for us to accept KHII Riku's actions as good while KH Riku's very similar actions are clearly wrong" sense.

...or maybe I just think about stuff too much. xD

There are some differences, like in KH1 Riku joined the dark side to save Kairi. Then he found Sora and wanted to join forces with him to get kairi back but maleficent changes his mind.

In the KH2 Riku doesnt't uses the power of darkness, cause in CoM Reverse/rebirth, he gets Mickey's help to defeat the darkness inside of him but that only helps 50% so he gets the power of twilight or light and darkness.

And he only helps DiZ because so he meet again Sora.

Conlclusion:
- All riku wanted was to get back to DI with his friends.
- Riku was supposed to alway Sora replaced him with his new friends: Donald and Goofy
 

AndyCloseEyes

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lol Yeah Roxas got what he wanted, he got his answers, and a Heart. Most nobodies die wanting that so really What's with all the Roxas Pity? *Thinks* . . .

When the player starts the game, they don't realize all the crap about Nobodies, Riku kidnapping Roxas, and Roxas having a heart. So, let's picture this:

- You've been with your friends supposedly all your life, and suddenly, these weird things start happening to you.

- Eventually, you learn that you're in a data town: Everything, your life, your friends.....is all made up. Hence the computer pwning.

- You also learn that you've been working for this group that's bad but doesn't know they're bad, for about a whole year, and now, your only option is to give yourself up to some other guy who doesn't know anything about this at all and travels the worlds with an extremely happy and carefree attitude.

Now we feel sorry for the guy.
 

AndyCloseEyes

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lol Yeah Roxas got what he wanted, he got his answers, and a Heart. Most nobodies die wanting that so really What's with all the Roxas Pity? *Thinks* . . .

When the player starts the game, they don't realize all the crap about Nobodies, Riku kidnapping Roxas, and Roxas having a heart. So, let's picture this:

- You've been with your friends supposedly all your life, and suddenly, these weird things start happening to you.

- Eventually, you learn that you're in a data town: Everything, your life, your friends.....is all made up. Hence the computer pwning.

- You also learn that you've been working for this group that's bad but doesn't know they're bad, for about a whole year, and now, your only option is to give yourself up to some other guy who doesn't know anything about this at all and travels the worlds with an extremely happy and carefree attitude.

Now we feel sorry for the guy.
 

Ikkin

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Wow, I've got to say, when I read the topic, I expected much less. I'm impressed. I honestly didn't notice how similar the kidnapping Riku is in both the games, I kinda feel dumb.(that is what he's doing in the first one while with Maleficent, right?)
Keep it up!

Heh, thanks. ^_^

Don't feel dumb, though. It's rather subtle, I think.

And, yeah, that's what Riku was doing. I think it's implied that that was what happened with Alice when she disappeared.


That's true and I also thought that as well. But it's so not much a 360 as a 180, as it goes half way in the opposite direction.

Heh, well, 180 would be going in the completely-opposite direction.

So, maybe 270. Goes forward and then back, but winds up just going sideways. ;)


people as a society tend to sympathize for people that are good doing something good for the greater good while they will more than likely look down on someone that does something bad for the greater good. its a little hard to understand but you get the general idea

Well, yeah. That's basically common sense. There's no reason to look down on someone when they're doing something good and not doing anything wrong to do it. ;)

What I was suggesting was, Riku still was doing something bad for the greater good. After all, Roxas might be a Nobody, but it still isn't nice to knock him out and kidnap him, especially since he was kind of trying to find Sora himself anyway.


I think it's an intresting thought, perhaps I think Riku only saw this as a way to avenge Sora because face it, if the nobodies hadn't done that then Sora would be still ok. Still yes I also think he did this cause it had to be done. I think perhaps the choice was easy what he did to Roxas cause he had always been told they had no feelings, still perhaps Riku saw through this lie and infact he did see Roxas was suffering hence the words "Poor thing" Still Riku knew that saw was a lot more important to the world being whole than Roxas having his own existance, Roxas pretty much as far as we know never made the world a better place infact he was probably helping them make it evil... So yes Riku's opinion of a Princess has changed.... Roxas is a Princess...

Hmm, that's an interesting idea... though, Riku didn't really seem all too interested in revenge, really. He left DiZ so DiZ wouldn't use him as a weapon against the Organization, after all, and let both Namine - who had been the tool used to put Sora in that position - and Axel - who allowed it for his own ends - go after being ordered to kill them.

Though I don't think it really is that easy for Riku - he seems to believe the "Nobodies have no feelings" thing the least out of anybody. There's some little signs - "Is it really that hard to make a beach?" for one. Letting Namine and Axel go is another.

...Princess Roxas is a funny mental image. XD


Oh it is very easy, Why? Because Roxas is on the "bad" side. Besides I hate how everyone feels sorry for Roxas, he got what most other nobodies died to have, He got himself a heart! Infact Riku saved both parties. Roxas was bound to be destroyed by Xemnas if he didn't obey him... All the Org would be after him, Axel said it himself. "Look at what it's come to.... I've been given these icky orders to destroy you if you refuse to come back with me." Hmmm.... Yes indeed I see it that Riku was doing Roxas a favour, cause really Roxas IS Sora, everyone forgets that!
Without Sora Roxas is no one.... Hence the name.... Nobody.

Exactly why it's interesting. ;)

I kind of think that the fate of a Nobody is just rather tragic in general. Sure, Roxas got the "good ending" - he went back to his heart, without having to die to do it. But the end result is still the same; he no longer has his own existence, and, in his case, the existence that he does have inside of Sora seems to be based on the false version of himself created by DiZ.

And I'm sure Roxas didn't see it as Riku doing him any favors. XD At least at the time, anyway.


Well I think they are two very different things. In KH, he was kidnapping the DP's for a bad reason, to open up the heart of HB. He was doing it for Kairi, but it was going to have a bad outcome. In KH2, he kidnaps Roxas for a good reason, to bring revenge on Org. 13. He was doing it for Sora, and it was going to have a good outcome. So I guess it really depends on the outcomes of situations, or what the main goal is.

Well, yeah. The question is, did Riku know what the bad result of opening that final seal would be?

...no, Riku didn't do it for revenge. DiZ did, but Riku didn't care about revenge at all. Riku wanted Sora back. Which is for the best, since getting Sora back is a good end, whereas revenge is not, regardless of what the Organization did.

The idea of morality being based on outcome is rather interesting...


In the KH2 Riku doesnt't uses the power of darkness, cause in CoM Reverse/rebirth, he gets Mickey's help to defeat the darkness inside of him but that only helps 50% so he gets the power of twilight or light and darkness.

Visibly false - literally. If Riku didn't use the power of darkness, he wouldn't have changed into Xehanort's Heartless.
 

DarkeTiger

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Let's make this short and easy to understand

KH1 - Riku is only working with Malificient to help save Kairi, at first, he thinks Sora is working against him, or that he doesn't understand what Riku is trying to do.

KH2 - Riku was told by Ansem that the only way to make Sora wake up, is to capture Roxas and bring him to Ansem.

Basically, Riku is just trying to get his friends back, he may seem a little misguided, basically because he is. Also Riku seems a little easy to manipulate, you simply tell him that doing something will help his friends, and he'll do it.
 
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