Riku vs Roxas



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itsroxas

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In 358/2 days we saw that Riku slashed and fought Xion with his weapon at full strength because she was an "Organization member" but why didn't he use his weapon against Roxas? He claimed that he had to fight an organization member soon with Mickey and that he was pretty strong, so why not just use his weapon against him if he was so intent on getting Sora's memories back? Was nomura trying to recreate that concept scene at the end of the KH1 secret movie?

But then i wonder if he did intend to recreate that scene (KH1 secret movie) in 358/2, then according to the interview in the ultimania, how can Xion be the reason Roxas threw his Oblivion Keyblade at Riku when Xion was created (writing and idea wise) after KH2? Feels so very strange.


 

Blackdrazon

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Bear in mind that the battle between Riku and Roxas wasn't actually created for Days, but for KH2:FM+. In fact, Days only adds a minute or so of content total to the KH2:FM+ version, most of it belonging the conversation that starts after the Neoshadows are destroyed.

In 358/2 days we saw that Riku slashed and fought Xion with his weapon at full strength because she was an "Organization member" but why didn't he use his weapon against Roxas? He claimed that he had to fight an organization member soon with Mickey and that he was pretty strong, so why not just use his weapon against him if he was so intent on getting Sora's memories back? Was nomura trying to recreate that concept scene at the end of the KH1 secret movie?

If you're asking why Riku went in unarmed, I doubt he intended to stay unarmed. He was diving into a pile of Neoshadows, after all! It's just that Roxas happened to pass him the Oblivion before he pulled out his sword, and he figured... why not? It's the better weapon anyways!

But yes, Nomura was just sticking to the KH1 version of the scene, and damn the consequences.

But then i wonder if he did intend to recreate that scene (KH1 secret movie) in 358/2, then according to the interview in the ultimania, how can Xion be the reason Roxas threw his Oblivion Keyblade at Riku when Xion was created (writing and idea wise) after KH2? Feels so very strange.
Retcon. We don't know why Roxas passed Riku the Oblivion prior to the creation of Xion. Maybe you can blame the Sora in him?
 
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ALittleNerd

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In 358/2 days we saw that Riku slashed and fought Xion with his weapon at full strength because she was an "Organization member" but why didn't he use his weapon against Roxas? He claimed that he had to fight an organization member soon with Mickey and that he was pretty strong, so why not just use his weapon against him if he was so intent on getting Sora's memories back? Was nomura trying to recreate that concept scene at the end of the KH1 secret movie?

But then i wonder if he did intend to recreate that scene (KH1 secret movie) in 358/2, then according to the interview in the ultimania, how can Xion be the reason Roxas threw his Oblivion Keyblade at Riku when Xion was created (writing and idea wise) after KH2? Feels so very strange.


Riku may have been hesitant to injure Roxas since he's the only way Sora could be awakened.
 

Hirokey123

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Pretty much that's why he thrusts the keyblade right next to Roxas's face not in it.
 

Hirokey123

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No because Sora's heart isn't in limbo waiting for his body. If they destroy Roxas his body would return to darkness and take a huge chunk of Sora's memories with it. This would leave Sora's heart incomplete unable to awaken and even if he did awaken he be missing vital parts of who he is, no one else would remember him, and it's honestly hard to believe he could even survive in that state to begin with. Because so far Ven is our only instance of a broken heart and it resulted in his near death twice.
 

Divine Past

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I always thought a good reason for Roxas throwing the key was just using strike raid and being unaware Riku can use the keyblade. That makes a good enough sense in my head that it didn't need Xion interference.

Like the only addition Xion made to the scene that didn't seem too unnecessary is giving Roxas a reason why he wanted to kill the organization I guess. So that's why Riku knew where Roxas will be and the urgency of the fight.
 

kirabook

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I always assumed he threw the keyblade as a failed attempt at strike raid.
 

Hirokey123

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But it never made sense because Riku is no where in line of fire when he throws it. If it's a strike raid it's a horribly inaccurate strike raid that was never going to so much as scratch Riku. If Riku didn't jump off the building and go to catch it then it would of just zoomed straight up the building completely missing Riku on the roof. It was very much a glaring hole and Xion brought peace to what was easily one of the most angry and hotly debated topics pre-Days.

Of course the reality of the matter is this was all Nomura's fault. It absolutely was a strike raid but not a strike raid meant for Riku. In the KH1 video neoshadows appear on the tower blocking Roxas as he runs up it. Thus he performed a strike raid to get them out of the way and then Riku jumped in to intercept and steal the keyblade. But then when they put the scene into the game they removed Roxas's target so he was literally throwing his keyblade at nothing which meant the only explanation that now made sense was that Roxas either had a horrible muscle spasm or he threw the keyblade to Riku intentionally. Which then brought about the question why he would do such a thing and thus in came Xion.

The thing is not adding those neoshadows was deliberate. Nomura wanted to change the scene which meant he always intended since KH2 that for whatever reason Roxas would be willingly giving that keyblade to Riku. Not saying he had Xion planned then but he had something in his head planned or else he wouldn't of had the scene changed like that.
 

catcake

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I just rewatched Deep Dive and it definitely looks like it's a strike raid to get rid of the Neoshadows up there, but Riku grabs it instead. Roxas seems surprised when they pass each other, so that's probably what happened. Not sure why Riku took the keyblade though instead of using his own.
 

Griewer

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I just rewatched Deep Dive and it definitely looks like it's a strike raid to get rid of the Neoshadows up there, but Riku grabs it instead. Roxas seems surprised when they pass each other, so that's probably what happened. Not sure why Riku took the keyblade though instead of using his own.
It is often said that Riku couldn't summon his keyblade at that point...

but actually I think that just like he didn't want to reveal himself before others, he didn't want to summon up his own keyblade (which is why he used soul eater for most of the time). At that time Riku was (over)using the power of darkness and probably didn't think of himself as worthy to wield one.
 

Blackdrazon

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It is definitely a Strike Raid in KH1, but the Neoshadows he's attacking were removed when the scene was remade in FM+, deliberately (but confusingly) changing the nature of the interaction.
 

LightUpTheSky452

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Actually, wasn't it confirmed somewhere that the Soul Eater sword turned into the Way to the Dawn Keyblade for Riku when he proved himself? (Kind of like how sometimes people do seem to need an intermediary weapon between the Keyblade in order to use it, like how Roxas would use that stick in II to turn into the Kingdom Key when he couldn't easily call the Keyblade himself). So if that's the case, then he doesn't have his Keyblade at this point. Because isn't it still Soul Eater when he's guarding the mansion from Dusks at the end of Roxas' prologue?

Also, it would probably make sense that Roxas was trying to use Strike Raid in the secret movie. That was a signature move of Sora's from KHI, after all, so Nomura was probably trying to hint then that Roxas was somehow Sora.

Though tbh, I do prefer the new canon thing, that Xion threw the Oblivion to Riku to get him to stop Roxas. Yes, I know that wasn't originally what Nomura was thinking (because he hadn't dreamt up Xion yet), but I just really like that story beat for many a reason. It's a good conclusion to the Days story and certain relationships there, imo.
 

Taochan

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In DDD Riku shows he can still call Soul Eater.
 

catcake

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It is definitely a Strike Raid in KH1, but the Neoshadows he's attacking were removed when the scene was remade in FM+, deliberately (but confusingly) changing the nature of the interaction.
Wait really? Okay, then I understand the confusion. That's weird.
 

Xickin

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You know what I never understood? When Riku said to Sora that he had fought Roxas and lost, but the next time they met he made sure he was the stronger one. When was this first encounter? As far as I can remember, Riku only fought Roxas once. Is this a translation error where Roxas won against Riku in the first part of the fight? Then Riku won when he became Ansem.
 

Hirokey123

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I think soul eater was just sort of a manifestation of his darkness in a weapon form like the organization weapons. So one soul eater he was using became the base for his keyblade but he never like lost the ability to make another soul eater so long as he had darkness gripping his heart, hence him pulling it out in DDD as evidence of that fact.

Just like I bet even though it certainly looks like a certain new wielder's keyblade is using their original weapon as a base can probably still make pretty much infinite version of their original weapon if they so choose.

As for that talk I always figured that was a result of a scrapped plot point, like that Riku and Roxas were supposed to have fought twice. I mean KH2FM+ kinda kills that before Days is even a thing so I guess now we are supposed to consider their big fight as multiple ones.

The actual boss fight with Riku in Days that ends with Riku on the floor is the fight where Roxas won. But then Riku gets an expected shot in on Roxas and beats him. THEN Roxas wakes up, they fight again, and Riku gets thrashed much more quickly this time. Realizing that he can't engage a dual wield Roxas in a direct battle as he is he releases Ansem, and this time it's Roxas who gets thrashed in seconds.
 

Griewer

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You know what I never understood? When Riku said to Sora that he had fought Roxas and lost, but the next time they met he made sure he was the stronger one. When was this first encounter? As far as I can remember, Riku only fought Roxas once. Is this a translation error where Roxas won against Riku in the first part of the fight? Then Riku won when he became Ansem.
The first fight would be their in-game duel at the end of days.
The second fight would be during the cinematic afterwards.

At least that's how I see it. They had a short run-in at the beginning of days but since Riku never attacked you can't count that as a real fight.
 

LightUpTheSky452

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...Totally forgot that Riku summoned Soul Eater in DDD. Oops. I guess I really should replay that game, huh?

And I suppose it makes sense that Soul Eater ins't Way to the Dawn, because wasn't the wooden Keyblade Ven's intermediary weapon? And that certainly didn't turn into Wayward Wind for him, so it's only logical that Soul Eater wouldn't break the rules and turn into a Keyblade.

The only odd one out here seems to be Roxas, as the stick he used in II really did seem to turn into Kingdom Key, but meh.

You know, this whole thing is a plot point I wished Nomura explored more. It always seemed like he had meant to, but then he just kind of dropped it.

And this is getting WAY off topic and I apologize, guys.
 
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