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Revelation of the Unbirth



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So why are they called unbirths?

Unbirths have births, as Nomura said, much like how Nobodies have bodies and Heartless are comprised of hearts.

The birth, obviously, is the replication process.

Heartless are named so because they're instinctive, apathetic creatures of the dark, ie heartless.
Nobodies are named so because they are nonexistent beings, ie nobody.

Then lets look at Unbirth.
It has a negative prefix ("Un-") like the prefix/suffix for Nobodies and Heartless ("No-" and "-less" respectively).
Meaning that, while they have births, the word "unbirth" describes an Unbirths nature. Un-born. Opposite of birth.

The antonym of birth is death.
Therefore, Unbirth are born as "dead" beings.
Nomura has said that a heart is "proof of life." Naturally, without a heart, a being is essentially as good as dead.

Nobodies aren't really "dead" though since they aren't alive either. Something that does not exist cannot be alive and thus cannot have a death either.

Unbirth are born into this world as real beings. But they do not have a real heart. It is as though they're dead.

this theory would have been good if the unbirth emblem was actually accurate....

Looks accurate to me. Even if it isn't though, I really don't care. I've already held this idea since I found out Xion was a replica. And I've found how it can fit very nicely into the story. The symbol interpretation, which is entirely subjective, is just supplementary evidence that I found by coincidence (wasn't looking for it in the unbirth symbol, it's simply what I arrived to).
 
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MasterHearts7762

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I dont really understand what you are meaning there but Sora's memories were fragmented in CoM and he had a regular heart still.

Well yeah but at the time he had a heart still, so that doesn't make him an unbirth. GA said that memories can act as a substitute for a heart right? Making a Memory Heart. I'm just trying to make sure that Xion could be an unbirth because of her fragmented memories of sora, and repliku could be one because of his fragmented memories of riku. And Roxas, can have a Memory Heart because of Ven's memories, all of which i think GA said.
 
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Adding a bit.

"Birth by Sleep" and "Unbirth" are two terms that seem to have a connection. Unbirth have birth. It's very likely that they're "born from sleep."

Keeping that concept in mind, I was thinking about CoM and how Nomura chose to expand on a previously insignificant idea (Replicas). So if Replicas are important, what about the references to sleep for Sora and Riku?

Let's start with a quote that has been troubling me concerning Repliku:
The plan is going more or less smoothly. Concerning the most superior replica, "No. i", it is going almost too smoothly. The other that we couldn't acquire a number for was brought to Castle Oblivion, with the plan to do further research with it. These replicas, at least isn't it acceptable to call them special Nobodies?

It is still branded as a "replica" before it was brought to Castle Oblivion. Not a generic doll, a replica (of Riku). The replication process for Riku began before Vexen met Riku and gathered data. Whatever Vexen did was just icing on the cake.

So what could have started the process? And then it hit me. Birth by sleep. As Riku slept in the chasm between light and darkness, a consequence was the development of his Unbirth, his replica.
What about the whole memory issue? If Repliku's heart is made from Riku's memories, why isn't Riku experiencing any memory loss? Well, who said he wasn't?

Riku: No one here, either... There's nothing but Heartless in this castle.
Voice! I know you're watching — so explain this. Where are the people
from my memories? Tell me!

???: Are you sure you want to see them?

Riku: Of course I do.

???: But you cast them aside. To reach the outside world, you passed through
the door to darkness. Behind you, you left family, friends, home —
everything — all in pursuit of darkness.

Riku: But I cast that aside, too!

???: Then what do you have to show for it? First your home, then the dark. Your
heart only knows how to throw things away. It's empty, like that room.
Like your memories.
That's why no one is in the castle with you. Your
heart is hollow except for the darkness you couldn't quite shake off.

The creation process of Repliku did take some of Riku's memories. Most of the light ones.
Then Vexen gathered data on Riku's darkness in their battle, as Vexen himself said. This darkness is what completes Repliku.

Makes sense. After all, sleep and memories have been shown to have a direct connection in KH. Still, I'm unsure of just how exactly this whole birth by sleep goes about.

But what about Xion? She wasn't born from sleep, she was born from Xemnas sampling Sora's memories! Well, you're right. But look at the state Xion is in. She's imperfect, only reflecting the image of Sora's most important memory. Memory sampling is not fail proof. When did Xion become complete (or near complete)? That process began after Sora went to sleep.

It all fits (including timeline-wise for when Riku goes to sleep, comes to CO, etc). But it's very puzzling. Obviously you're not going to be creating Unbirth every time you fall asleep. There has to be something special about it, be it the condition you're in during the sleep, the state the generic doll is in while you sleep, or something else.
 

_Omni_

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Hmmm very interesting. Just a lil thought that came to mind after reading all this. I believe throughout the game BBS, Terra will use Darkness to increase his power so he can fight. However I believe during the final battle (KH2 Secret movie) TAV will be on the verge of a complete loss and that Terra will cast his heart aside to gain a new level of power. I believe the 1st Heartless may be born from ths process.

EDIT: Actually, I'm trippin. there's no way this could be the truth just based off the fact that it's been said that heartless and nobody didint exsist in BBS
 

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personally, i just dont see hwo people can link BBS to every game there is...i mean COm had a real importance in memories but didnt affect kh2 in the same sense. So how can we link BBs to COM and 358/2 days?

BBS is supposedly the prelude to kh3 and if kh3 was related to COm or 358/2 days (in the sense of memories) than that would make BBS related to memories, but 358/2 days is considered spin off to tetsuya nomura. So we really cant count and i dont think COM has a strong connection to BBS.

So i dont think BBS has anything to do with memory.
 
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This is outdated now that it is Unversed.

Not really. Not much of the theory is dependent on the name "Unbirth."

I've been thinking up some revisions and expansions to this theory since the last time I posted here. Truth be told, though, I just haven't made the effort to actually write any of it down. Now that the name has changed and we've been given more insight to the enemies' nature, I'll probably post a new theory this weekend.

personally, i just dont see hwo people can link BBS to every game there is...i mean COm had a real importance in memories but didnt affect kh2 in the same sense. So how can we link BBs to COM and 358/2 days?
I believe Nomura has actually said that BbS draws upon connections to every game in the series.

Your reasoning is totally off anyway. Aspects of CoM, such as the concept of a replica, have made a huge impact on Days which, in turn, is connected to BbS. It's not hard to figure out where I'm going with this.

If replicas have been made relevant once again, we can cite CoM as evidence.

BBS is supposedly the prelude to kh3 and if kh3 was related to COm or 358/2 days (in the sense of memories) than that would make BBS related to memories, but 358/2 days is considered spin off to tetsuya nomura. So we really cant count and i dont think COM has a strong connection to BBS.
BbS is not a "prelude" to KH3. Technically, coded is.
358/2 Days is not a spin off.

So i dont think BBS has anything to do with memory.
"Xehanort's memories."

I would actually be willing to bet a large sum that it very much does have something to do with memories.
 

Yuuki

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good theory but if unbirth are replicas then why do they look weird and not human like?
 
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Really simple. They're not complete. (Did I not explain this?)

Take a look at Xion. She's a clone of Sora in the form of Kairi.
Essentially, then, anything within a person's memory can take the physical form of their "replica" if these are the primary memories being used.
 

Yuuki

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i see o_O

heres another question and u might think its stupid so im so sorry if it is but how they get so much memories to make unbirths? or do they use the same memory?
 

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I believe Nomura has actually said that BbS draws upon connections to every game in the series.

Your reasoning is totally off anyway. Aspects of CoM, such as the concept of a replica, have made a huge impact on Days which, in turn, is connected to BbS. It's not hard to figure out where I'm going with this.

If replicas have been made relevant once again, we can cite CoM as evidence.


BbS is not a "prelude" to KH3. Technically, coded is.
358/2 Days is not a spin off.


"Xehanort's memories."

I would actually be willing to bet a large sum that it very much does have something to do with memories.

tetsuya nomura DID call it a spin off.

and he did say it was a prelude to kh3 (bbs)

ANd you know what imeant. BBS has a connection to everygame because it's explaning the origin. Also the only small connection we saw was Xehanort speaking to roxas in the same way terra thanked ven. and Xion looking like ventus at one point of the game through the eyes of xigar. the connection of days to BBs seem to hint only the characters and not terminology.

there's too many third party rate connection that people tend to goa bit far fetch....

again i dont think BBS has a real conection to memories the same way 358/2 days and COM did.the on ly thing i believe is memory affiliated is that it will explain the lost memory of xehanort, but nothnig much to it and replicas were invented by nobodies (organization XIII). i dont think replicas should even return in the events before they were ever created or by that assumption.

In case you dont believe me, the article where tetsuya nomura confirms no ff characters except moogles will apear in days is the same one where he called it a spin off
 
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tetsuya nomura DID call it a spin off.

and he did say it was a prelude to kh3 (bbs)

ANd you know what imeant. BBS has a connection to everygame because it's explaning the origin. Also the only small connection we saw was Xehanort speaking to roxas in the same way terra thanked ven. and Xion looking like ventus at one point of the game through the eyes of xigar. the connection of days to BBs seem to hint only the characters and not terminology.

there's too many third party rate connection that people tend to goa bit far fetch....

again i dont think BBS has a real conection to memories the same way 358/2 days and COM did.the on ly thing i believe is memory affiliated is that it will explain the lost memory of xehanort, but nothnig much to it and replicas were invented by nobodies (organization XIII). i dont think replicas should even return in the events before they were ever created or by that assumption.

In case you dont believe me, the article where tetsuya nomura confirms no ff characters except moogles will apear in days is the same one where he called it a spin off

that interview made me sad. Oh and good theory. I always thought that Replicas = Unbirths but could never come up with sufficient evidence.
 
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i see o_O

heres another question and u might think its stupid so im so sorry if it is but how they get so much memories to make unbirths? or do they use the same memory?

No, no, not at all stupid.
It's in fact something I've been thinking about since this topic's creation.

I've basically said here that they take the memories of their original. But that doesn't make too much sense, now that I think about it.

When Xemnas sampled Sora's memories, did he take them or replicate them? Well, he had to have replicated them. Xion is, at her core, memories of Kairi, but, obviously, Sora didn't forget about Kairi. Xion only began to take Sora's actual memories when they began leaking out.

tetsuya nomura DID call it a spin off.
Oh, so if Nomura told you to jump off a cliff, would you do it?

I don't give a damn WHAT Nomura called it, that doesn't change what it IS.

and he did say it was a prelude to kh3 (bbs)

---Are it's contents connected to the future of the Kingdom Hearts series?

Nomura: That's right. It's in a position similar to how Chain of Memories was. I think if you can play it, you'll recognize it draws upon the mysteries of the entire series.

coded is a prelude to KH3, end of discussion.
BbS may have more connections, but that doesn't change the circumstances.

ANd you know what imeant. BBS has a connection to everygame because it's explaning the origin.
How can you be so dense as to admit that it has a connection to every game in the series and not understand why this theory is more than possible?

-Is there a connection in 358/2 Days between Birth by Sleep and Coded?

Nomura: At the moment Coded does not have any connections with 358/2 Days, but Birth by Sleep is deeply linked. Birth by Sleep has connections to all the games in the series.

---Is there a connection to 358/2 Days and Birth by Sleep?

Nomura: Yes, they link in various ways.

If BbS links to CoM, and it links to BbS, then it absolutely has MORE than enough potential to incorporate the idea of replicas. We didn't even need proof of its connection to CoM. Knowing that it is connected to Days, one could theorize about replica involvement in BbS and, as such, look to CoM as a way of using indirect evidence.

Also the only small connection we saw was Xehanort speaking to roxas in the same way terra thanked ven. and Xion looking like ventus at one point of the game through the eyes of xigar. the connection of days to BBs seem to hint only the characters and not terminology.
The only connection we've "seen." No shit. So does that mean that anything we haven't seen is impossible?

there's too many third party rate connection that people tend to goa bit far fetch....
What?

again i dont think BBS has a real conection to memories the same way 358/2 days and COM did.the on ly thing i believe is memory affiliated is that it will explain the lost memory of xehanort, but nothnig much to it and replicas were invented by nobodies (organization XIII). i dont think replicas should even return in the events before they were ever created or by that assumption.

Did I ever claim BbS was entirely connected to memories in the same way as Days and CoM? No. CoM put heavy emphasis on Sora's memories, Days put heavy emphasis on Roxas' memories. I'm talking about the replicas. In CoM, the concept of a replica played a somewhat minor role, but with the reintroduction of a replica in Days playing a major role, suddenly the concept has become highly relevant, especially knowing that Days and BbS connect in various ways.

You have no way of knowing whether or not Replicas were around before the Organization, and you'd be a fool to assume that they must have been the first to make a replica.

And I'm tired of your equivocating horseshit that I see you do oh so often in threads. You don't "think," you don't "feel" that this theory is right. Guess what? You already said that. And with nothing to back your claim, no one cares. At all.

Thinking that something isn't right is not evidence against it, so stop parading your own views around as such.
 

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i really hate when they use big talk when it is convenient to you and later on use some other method completely different. tetsuya nomura called it spin off, so it must be true. that means it will most likely have no references to any future games.



we have no proof of coded being a prelude to kh3 since tetsuya nomura did say it will explain kh1 mysteries.

also replicas are a completely different being that no one knows exactly what it is. So how can we compare it to unveres if they are said to be related to heartless? what connection do unverse and heartless have? the symbol?

all replicas are born in Castle oblivion, so do unverses born in Castle oblivion? reintorducing replicas only seems to fit with replica fans.
 
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i really hate when they use big talk when it is convenient to you and later on use some other method completely different.
What?

tetsuya nomura called it spin off, so it must be true. that means it will most likely have no references to any future games.
...
Go back and read the quote. Or shut up and get out.
Here, let me help you:

---Is there a connection to 358/2 Days and Birth by Sleep?

Nomura: Yes, they link in various ways.


we have no proof of coded being a prelude to kh3 since tetsuya nomura did say it will explain kh1 mysteries.

---Are it's contents connected to the future of the Kingdom Hearts series?

Nomura: That's right. It's in a position similar to how Chain of Memories was. I think if you can play it, you'll recognize it draws upon the mysteries of the entire series.

also replicas are a completely different being that no one knows exactly what it is. So how can we compare it to unveres if they are said to be related to heartless? what connection do unverse and heartless have? the symbol?

all replicas are born in Castle oblivion, so do unverses born in Castle oblivion? reintorducing replicas only seems to fit with replica fans.

Honestly, are you really 18? Or more along the lines of 10? No wait, I wouldn't want to insult a ten year old's intelligence.

I'm not even going to bother answering this because virtually anyone else reading this could answer that themselves.

Unfortunately, you, being you, will have to be left in the dark.
 

Allister Rose

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What?


...
Go back and read the quote. Or shut up and get out.
Here, let me help you:










Honestly, are you really 18? Or more along the lines of 10? No wait, I wouldn't want to insult a ten year old's intelligence.

I'm not even going to bother answering this because virtually anyone else reading this could answer that themselves.

Unfortunately, you, being you, will have to be left in the dark.

that really didnt prove your point at all...and please dont get my age involve. it seems your just avoiding the subject. so you really have no real proof or connection.
 
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