so we seen a lot of people saying that Sora is going to forget Kairi, we know that Kairi will remember sora. which explains the whole Roxas and Namine thing, but whats up with Axel And Kairi? we do see a bond right?
repairing the relationship machine (thing's broken anyway)
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I see the Kairi and Axel relationship reflecting the relationship between Xion and Axel just like the relationship with Axel and Sora reflect Axels relationship with Roxas and Ven. They are building real relationships, too. But I see a lot more meaning there of course with the Sea Salt Trio.
but what about sora and kairi?
Sora and Kairi have been neglected by the series' writing and I honestly have little hope that it will suddenly improve in KH3. Kairi and Axel becoming friends has no real impact on the Sokai relationship as of right now. And as Seadrin mentioned, it may just be a symbolic relationship mirroring the bond between Axel and Xion.
I just also want to point out, you can have a platonic male-female relationshipd without it impacting male-female romantic relationships.
Huh? What are you talking about? I am completely baffled at the notion that keeps coming up that Sora and Kairi aren't obviously an item any more. Why on earth would Sora forget Kairi?
Kairi has been consistently shown to be incredibly significant to Sora throughout the series. When Namine erased her from his memory she said very explicitly that Sora would not be the same until he found who his "true light" was (aka Kairi). Then, thoughout Days and the intro KH2 we see that Sora literally cannot wake up without his memories of Kairi in place because they are basically fundamental to his psyche. During the "memory" sequences in the chamber (or Roxas' dreams, I guess) we see flashes of Kairi just about every split second, and until he was able to remember her name fully, his memories don't fully come together. She was the biggest piece missing out of his memory and remembering her was like the key to it all coming back.
KH2 he CLEARLY shows affection beyond a normal friendship. Daydreams about her several times, etc.
When he is summoned go to take the exam pre-KH3D we see him and Kairi still displaying the same dynamic of "here is my good luck charm, now bring it back to me later." aka "you'd better stay safe, dang it". If we include the "letter" written by Kairi in the concert as a clue she is also very obviously thinking of Sora and is worried about his well-being. Specifically Sora.
Yes, while KH3D's theme was about establishing the relationship between Sora and Riku, that in NO WAY erases any of the stuff above. So again, I pose the question why the heck would Sora forget about Kairi?
If we consider the timeline for the series as well, while WE have been waiting a while to see their relationship progress, their timeline hasn't really moved forward that much since the time after kh2. I mean, how long honestly has it been timeline wise from the end of KH2 - the end of KH3D? A week for them? Maybe two?
No way are the two of them changing how they feel about each other in like...two weeks. Nope, sorry.
but nomura doesn't get romance..... but he gets it?!
no he doesn’t want romance front and center
oh........... i was a little worried there.
I mean...I don't think we are gonna be seeing anything too insane and lovey-dovey. Most I'm expecting is some more adorably cute fluff in the background and just having the two of them ask each other "hey, you wanna be official now?"
I doubt it is going to take up a huge section of the game because, like I mentioned in my longer post, their feelings have already clearly been defined in previous games. If anything it will just be a solid confirmation of what we already know.
I doubt it is going to take up a huge section of the game because, like I mentioned in my longer post, their feelings have already clearly been defined in previous games. If anything it will just be a solid confirmation of what we already know.
I don't care for shipping in this series because it's handled so terribly. Nomura's weakest point is arguably his interpretation to romance.
I don't get why people shoehorn in two people together in Kingdom Hearts when it's nothing more than a platonic bond.
I don't get why people shoehorn in two people together in Kingdom Hearts when it's nothing more than a platonic bond.
I generally do not really care nor participate in shipping, so it doesn't really matter how a creator of a given work handles it.
What is a platonic bond or not is an issue of personal interpretation though as some interactions, gestures and general events between two characters can be read as both platonic or romantic in nature.
I also have less of a problem with romance existing or some people wanting to read such a thing between different characters, but more with the issue that the (alleged) romantic relationships tend to be viewed and portrayed as more important and higher in value than other forms of relationships and bonds between characters.
For example statements like "showing feelings/affections that are clearly more than friendship" have always this underlying tone of friendships and other platonic forms of love being inferior to the romantic one which is a highly annoying stereotype sadly more often than not present in entertainment media and which is perpetuated by some of the fanbases.
I feel like you are calling me out a bit on this one.
Overall I have no issues with people writing their own head-canon for different relationships between characters. I think it keeps the fandom healthy and alive for people to enjoy it in their own way. If people wanna say that Yuffie and Goofy are OTP that is completely up to them.
That being said, when the game establishes something that is canon (in terms of romantic implications) I feel like it is a bit disingenuous to ignore it.
Just because Sora definitely, 100% loves Kairi doesn't take anything away from his relationship with anyone else or mean he likes Riku, for example, any less. He has an incredibly strong bond with Riku. Heck, they would clearly be ready to die for each other and that is absolutely a form of love in my opinion. It's just not in the same 'romantic' way. There's more than one type of love, after all.
The reason why I said "clearly more than friendship" earlier is because some people insist, for whatever reason, that Sora and Kairi are "just friends" and he really totes wants to get with Riku or something which is flat-out ignoring the source material. I wasn't saying that friendships aren't important to Sora or that Kairi is his ultimate #1.
If Sora was stuck in some situation where he could only save Kairi or Riku (god forbid) I honestly have no idea which one he would pick because they are both equally important to him in different ways.
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Threads like this make me wonder how the fandom would react if KH3 comes around and Sora and Kairi decide to not have a romantic "relationship" together.
Nomura line about how it's gonna show "friendships/relationships evolving and changing over time" is having me half expect this.
Nomura line about how it's gonna show "friendships/relationships evolving and changing over time" is having me half expect this.
he also said we know how charather feel about each other
exactly and the machine broke because of that.
Not really, you just gave me a splendid example to go off from in the general vibe as such kind of wording is often used subconsciously without even realizing the possible other meanings.
I even once used to word things similar like this until a colleague at work (an aromantic woman) pointed out to me this kind of speech is setting up a false standard.
Implications are just that: Implications. Interpreting and theorizing that these implications do not need to necessarily lead to the schema f-outcome isn't the same as ignoring them.
Yuffie and Goofy are obviously a crack pairing that has no basis whats-o-ever from any source material, but there are cases to be made for possible others than Sora and Kairi depending on interpretation.
Yea, the implications for that pairing have been the most obvious and that is exactly what a bunch of people don't like, especially in regards to KH 2 I've often heard, on this very forum as well, the "forced-down-audience's-throat" argument.
On a personal note, I don't really care either way as long as they indeed don't let it take center stage and make a huge fuss about it like i.e. Sora sacrificing all the other Guardians of Light to save Kairi or similar cliché stuff I won't really be upset if it does happen. But I also won't be if it doesn't.
The whole romance stuff is generally the part of the KH series I absolutely care the least about.
More than one type of love indeed, and yet why has the one with Kairi then to be always pushed to the forefront? Not necessarily by the creators but by parts of the fanbase?
Every single title since KH 2 has toned down on the overly blatant implications which is a good thing in my view, completely contrary to the indeed troublesome issue of nearly completely ignoring Kairi as a whole, which is undoubtedly not a good thing.
Like, there are many possible highly interesting avenues and character relationships to explore in regards to Sora, like with Aqua, Xion, Naminé, Roxas or his supposed very close bond with Ventus, yet you don't see any of those being brought up nearly as much as the whole romance-shtick with Kairi, there are dozens of threads about it in here as well but close to zero about the others.
Nearly every other thread about Kairi also almost inevitably gets derailed into solely being about the possible romance with Sora so I can see why some describe her as "just the usual main female love interest for the protagonist".
The people you mention here are doing the very same thing only from the other side of the issue.
It's a case of personal interpretation in any case which one can do even without "ignoring" the source material. There are implications, no doubt about it, but implications aren't fact and neither point to a definite canon romance just in this one case.
That Sora may "want to get with Riku" or on the flip side, at least Riku "wanting to get with Sora" are implications that can be interpreted from their interactions and how they behave towards each other as well.
It isn't an one-way street and just how you may be annoyed at the people "insisting" Sora is going to get with Riku others are annoyed at people insisting he will get with Kairi.
That's where those highly tiring shipping wars are born from.
Heck, it's possible that Sora may be both bisexual and polyamorous so he wants to get with both Kairi and Riku. Beats me, but would from the view of an outside observer be a nice shakeup and something fresh compared to doing the usual standard procedure for the 1000th time.
If the narrative would follow the usual cliché structure he would definitely save Kairi because "love interest and romantic love is worth more than any other form of love" at least in most western media, although they could definitely spin it like Sora trusting Riku so much that he firmly believes he can save himself (which may also have unfortunate implications in some other areas).
In some parts badly I would suspect as it would go against the typical standard expectations in such cases. The hero has to "get the girl" and all the tropes attached to that storytelling chain.
It would however certainly be something more fresh than going the usual route, just like the other example I mentioned above.
There would additionally be another satisfying aspect to it if they manage to turn Kairi into a character that stands on her own with her own agenda that doesn't always resolve around Sora.
It can indeed mean multiple things and Nomura is known for liking some unexpected twists, so it is possible to have things being flipped around even in this specific case even if not probable.
Yea, and that can involve people realizing for example that a childhood crush may stay just that, a childhood crush.
As Redcrown said and as I mentioned too earlier, there is commonly this almost ingrained expectation that when two people of opposite sexes are close it has to evolve into something romance-related over time and an almost-demand that when there are romantic implications given that it has to result in something substantial eventually.
That was a pretty solid statement there.
D
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I never felt Kairi had a real chemistry with either Sora or Riku. She always felt like an afterthought so I rather they focus on making Kairi feel like a real part of the trio.
Show don't tell basically.
I'm not trying to be cruel to Sora/Kairi fans but if I can't buy Sora and Kairi as friends how am I suppose to buy them as a couple? (rhetorical)
So first things first.
I'm curious about the dynamic between Ansem and his remaining apprentices.
Show don't tell basically.
I'm not trying to be cruel to Sora/Kairi fans but if I can't buy Sora and Kairi as friends how am I suppose to buy them as a couple? (rhetorical)
So first things first.
I'm curious about the dynamic between Ansem and his remaining apprentices.
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